What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

I've never been a fan of Matsuno's storytelling methods. I don't think it's "bad" -- but definitely not for me. His characters always felt interchangeable to me; one thing that brings characters "to life" for me is the sense that when a character speaks or acts, it's in a manner unique to them. "Something only that character would say / do", as the phrase goes in fiction writing circles. Watching FF Tactics/Ogre Battle/Vagrant Story/FFXII/etc cutscenes typically didn't do that well, in my opinion. Characters spoke in this same-y "exposition-speak" that just leads to me reading the words and not connecting with them in any capacity.

Want to repeat that this is my opinion, and I'm well aware that lots of people don't agree. I've been having this debate about Matsuno's stories for years at this point.

XIV is at its best when its being XII-2. I will even defend Vaan as a pretty good character.

sup fellas how is this thread going on today?

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Originally Posted by Brill_

My biggest issue with Endwalker is it didn't feel dire. We're supposedly in the final days and we're sitting around sipping tea with our comrads before running off to the final zone. I would liked to have seen something that gives you more of feeling like the end of 1.0 had just before the servers went down. I enjoyed the story, but the reason I just mentioned is what keeps it from beating Shadowbringers.

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Yeah this is a big issue for me, the pacing as well is messed up which also drags it down. Even barring all the issues people have with elpis and such

Plus the moon zone being a bloody afterthought is a big stand out to me

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Originally Posted by Lucida3b

Plus the moon zone being a bloody afterthought is a big stand out to me

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wait, what makes you think that as an afterthought?

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Originally Posted by Lucida3b

Plus the moon zone being a bloody afterthought is a big stand out to me

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Yeah, you'd think the moon would have a played a bigger role from how it was advertised in the trailer and how its a part of the game's logo. But no, after we kill Zodiark (who played a much smaller role than I had originally thought) we never really see the moon again.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

No I like the story to be shown rather than told. 90% of Ivalce is standing in the airship being given history lessons, using names you would not be familiar with if you never played Tactics. It's very difficult to follow because it's just a tidal wave of information that seems to expect me to already be familiar with what they're talking about. It was just boring. Info-dumps aren't storytelling. Ivalice was just badly told and some of you need to accept that. I never said it was a bad story, just horrendously presented. I thnk there was a potentially good story there but it was weighed down by the ludicrous amounts of exposition which made up the vast majority of the questline.

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If you like the story to be shown rather than told…Endwalker must have been a tragedy for you(in which i would agree), what with them not actually showing the sundering, not showing venat’s 12 summoners, etc etc.

I will concede to the fact that showing is generally better than telling, but I don't mind reading at length about game locations or characters I take interest in, regardless if it is shown on screen or not. I suppose for those of us who find Ivalice interesting it isn't much of a problem.

However, Endwalker's budget being blown on Estinien's boot and Alisae picking pickles out of a hamburger instead of key events during the initial summonings of both gods was a decision that I can't find any justification for.

"Ok, we have budget to do one more scene. What are we doing, the Venat vs Zodiark fight, or the Uber eats scene in the Sharlayan dorm?"

"Hmm well twitter might like the food scene more and they can make more fanart about it!"

"But what about the fact that these are the two main gods who-"

"Ok we are making the Uber Eats scene! Uhh if someone could write up a Tales of Shadows blurb for the Hydaelyn Zodiark fight that would be great!"

Given the recent surge in mod usage especially with the Hrothgar hair situation blowing the lid off that community, I suppose all we can do is wait for the day that someone manages to pose Hydaelyn's model fighting against Zodiark in order to get anything similar to the battle of the sundering.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

No I like the story to be shown rather than told. 90% of Ivalce is standing in the airship being given history lessons, using names you would not be familiar with if you never played Tactics. It's very difficult to follow because it's just a tidal wave of information that seems to expect me to already be familiar with what they're talking about. It was just boring. Info-dumps aren't storytelling. Ivalice was just badly told and some of you need to accept that. I never said it was a bad story, just horrendously presented. I thnk there was a potentially good story there but it was weighed down by the ludicrous amounts of exposition which made up the vast majority of the questline.

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I'm also one of those deviants who really didn't enjoy Ivalice or Bozja's stories that much either; certainly not to the extent where I felt anxious to see what was coming next.

The former making you have to effectively do ARR grade filler quests just to progress the actual raid story made me go "why".

Aside from that, the actual gameplay was what kept me hooked.

I'll always appreciate Matsuno's work on the basis that Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy Tactics and Final Fantasy XII are phenomenal games in their own right. No method of storytelling will ever be to everybody's tastes but I do think people are being unfair to Matsuno. He was invited to work on FFXIV as a guest developer and when you look at how the Nier raid handled its 'story' there's certainly more effort from Matsuno to at least tell a story.

To me it's pretty clear that he intended to work on the game at multiple intervals - the teaser at the end of Return to Ivalice suggested that it would get some manner of sequel. Then Bozja was announced to also have Matsuno's hand in it all and yet he was forced to write around Garlemald being nuked off screen, likely forcing him to alter whatever plans he had in mind.

I've said as much before but if not for the Ivalice vibes, I never would have bothered investing in this game. JRPG's are very hit and miss to me - many of them are exceptionally creepy, like the glorified visual novels that treat every character as a member of a harem for the player's self insert. Sadly FFXIV seems to be going in that direction, not on an explicit basis but a subtle one.

All in all, I can only agree that it was a damn shame that we never saw the fight between Hydaelyn and Zodiark or the physical effects of the Sundering itself. I know why, though - the development team would have then had to show the consequences of Venat's subversion and act of genocide which is very likely why we got the silly caricature scene instead to try and deflect and get people to look elsewhere.