Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

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Originally Posted by Ragz

I've tanked Titan as WAR, and does it as well as PLD with relic +1. The only thing to watch out is to time Thrill / IB with Mountain Buster. PLD could randomly die from crit Mountain Buster / bomb combo but with double IB it's pretty safe for WAR.

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Or a PLD (and a WAR) could just not get hit by bombs that are avoidable and save a cooldown for Mountain Buster. Since MB is physical, Bulwark is also very effective.

I've also had Mountain Buster miss thanks to Flash.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I have only had this set up for a day. Results are pending. My gear is not better than Paladins. Paladins wear gear that are optimized for their job so they are more successful. I'm starting to think that Yoshi P is correct. People think PLDs are better now because they are wearing PLD optimal gear on WAR and WAR sucks with PLD optimal Gear. Once WARs start gearing for their job, then WAR will start to outshine PLD.

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Where is this magical gear that is optimized for WAR then? What's that? I have to spend millions of gil worth of tomes to make gear that will make me barely viable?

If the problem is really we aren't wearing the optimal gear, than why isn't that gear available? Heavy darklight is CLEARLY meant for tanks. if WAR isn't supposed to wear it, why is our name on it? all of the other DD classes have gear specific to their class. why doesn't war?

This is not a 'do more research' problem. this is a design problem.

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Originally Posted by Kyzr

Again, as in the other thread, what WAR has 8300hp (1500 / 0.18) without their Relic? Average Warriors are sitting between 6500hp and 7000hp, which are 1170-1260 Stoneskins, not 1500. Did you travel back in time with your Bravura+1 to get your Bravura? We're not saying HM Titan is impossible with WAR, it's just significantly harder and requires insanely better gear; Comparatively to a PLD.

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Or you can spend myth on AF2 / Hero. Unless you are one of those people who never use food?

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Originally Posted by Tanaya

Or a PLD (and a WAR) could just not get hit by bombs that are avoidable and save a cooldown for Mountain Buster. Since MB is physical, Bulwark is also very effective.

I've also had Mountain Buster miss thanks to Flash.

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I envy GLA their Debuffs. :) I have to use Blind potions lol. Aren't those Mountain Buster misses so great?!

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Originally Posted by Onisake

Where is this magical gear that is optimized for WAR then? What's that? I have to spend millions of gil worth of tomes to make gear that will make me barely viable?

If the problem is really we aren't wearing the optimal gear, than why isn't that gear available? Heavy darklight is CLEARLY meant for tanks. if WAR isn't supposed to wear it, why is our name on it? all of the other DD classes have gear specific to their class. why doesn't war?

This is not a 'do more research' problem. this is a design problem.

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Better get to work! XD

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Originally Posted by Ragz

Or you can spend myth on AF2 / Hero. Unless you are one of those people who never use food?

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Nice, I like how you skipped over everything showing stoneskin to not be the cure-all solution you pretended it was, and then moved right on to making a claim that still doesn't bring WARs to 8300hp without a Delorian traveling 88mph.

It's like an Honors Class in political aversion techniques. A master stroke sir.

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Originally Posted by Ragz

Or you can spend myth on AF2 / Hero. Unless you are one of those people who never use food?

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I'm pretty sure HM Garuda, as per your example, is not an ilvl 90 fight. Neither is HM Titan.

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Originally Posted by Kyzr

Stoneskin

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You are on the right track but Stoneskin is actually just as effective on WAR as a PLD. WAR has a base HP of only like 80 higher than PLD (For Hyur Midlander PLD is 2504 WAR is 2589) so their base HP is practically identical. Defiance's 25% boost is giving WAR the same effective HP boost as a PLD's -20% DR from Shield Oath. WAR 2589 > 3236, and a PLD who only takes 80% of all damage gets 2504 > 3130. The difference after effective HP calculations is still only 106 so Stoneskin would work just as well on both PLD and WAR but like others have said PLD has more -%DR abilities at their disposal which make their effective HP skyrocket since -%DR has increasing returns (ex. going from -20%DR to -40%DR is an effective HP boost of 33% not 25% like the first -20%DR).

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Originally Posted by Onisake

Where is this magical gear that is optimized for WAR then? What's that? I have to spend millions of gil worth of tomes to make gear that will make me barely viable?

If the problem is really we aren't wearing the optimal gear, than why isn't that gear available? Heavy darklight is CLEARLY meant for tanks. if WAR isn't supposed to wear it, why is our name on it? all of the other DD classes have gear specific to their class. why doesn't war?

This is not a 'do more research' problem. this is a design problem.

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This is the question I've been asking, maybe if it's phrased a different way it will be easier to answer.

"Why does a warrior not get their optimal gear through the normal tiered gear progression like everyone else?"

Again, this assumes that your theory is correct, which since you have not taken it into Coil, does not even have anecdotal evidence to support it.

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Originally Posted by CurlyBruce

You are on the right track but Stoneskin is actually just as effective on WAR as a PLD. WAR has a base HP of only like 80 higher than PLD (For Hyur Midlander PLD is 2504 WAR is 2589) so their base HP is practically identical. Defiance's 25% boost is giving WAR the same effective HP boost as a PLD's -20% DR from Shield Oath. WAR 2589 > 3236, and a PLD who only takes 80% of all damage gets 2504 > 3130. The difference after effective HP calculations is still only 106 so Stoneskin would work just as well on both PLD and WAR but like others have said PLD has more -%DR abilities at their disposal which make their effective HP skyrocket since -%DR has increasing returns (ex. going from -20%DR to -40%DR is an effective HP boost of 33% not 25% like the first -20%DR).

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Yeah, I wanted to high-ball the HP amount so that the error would be in WAR's favor, just so that if someone wanted to really number crunch it, they'd see how much worse the estimates were. I knew it was more than 25% but less than 30%, but in order to make the math simple, just went with an even amount above 25%.

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Originally Posted by Kyzr

Nice, I like how you skipped over everything showing stoneskin to not be the cure-all solution you pretended it was, and then moved right on to making a claim that still doesn't bring WARs to 8300hp without a Delorian traveling 88mph.

It's like an Honors Class in political aversion techniques. A master stroke sir.

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It's not a cure all solution. It's just a tip that make WAR more viable. When did I say that would make titan a freebie? It's just more effective than spamming cure, and if your healer can't do that, get better healer as my healer have no issue doing that in coil.

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Originally Posted by Ruminate

I'm pretty sure HM Garuda, as per your example, is not an ilvl 90 fight. Neither is HM Titan.

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I only used Titan because people in this thread think Titan is hard to do for WAR for some reason, but I have no problem tanking dreads either. Turn 5 is a different story but not like PLD is breezing through it.