SE Please implement a Chonoscroll/PLEX system in FFXIV: ARR

You're stating each of your opinions as facts and they're not and that makes them lies.


on point 1, basically dude if somebody can't afford 10$ a month they have no business playing ANY game. My utilities alone are probably over 500 a month, at least 200 a week on food, if people are so strapped for cash they can't afford 10 bucks they shouldn't be playing any game at all.

To even play this game at launch you needed a 1k+ PC 10 bucks is laughable

I for one refuse to pay for other people to play


on point 2, in this system people who aren't using normal methods are making the most money. Playtime would be highly valuable, people who sell it would be richer than the people making money through normal methods. Sure I would still have my methods but they wouldn't make as much anymore.

And there is no way to limit it, if they limit it by account then people will just buy more accounts. If they limit it by credit cards people will just use different cards.


And RMT has been basically nonexistant in this game... I believe you were the one earlier that said the worst thing about RMT is that they get in the way of content or cause other people to have a less enjoyable experience...
that doesn't happen in this game, i've only seen them doing leves.

and it's so easy to make money in this game anybody who actually buys gil is an idiot.

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Originally Posted by A_Hortensia

Oh, paying for service is effecting the in-game on a radical level?

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Absolutely. If you don't have the money, you can't play. Can't be more radical than that.

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Yes, I found a magical way to play SE's games without giving them money.
Oh wait, no I haven't because I'm not a wizard and I actually want to pay the company for their product.

Also; dual boxing doesn't magically double your profits.
Unless you're using a bot, you're only using one character at a time.

This individual is paying 2 subscriptions, (kind of like your idea), except he's actually playing the game. to get gil.

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Nope. You don't need to use a bot to use two characters at a time. That's the large difference between multiboxing and botting. All you need is two PCs, Two Screens, Two keyboards (some very skilled multiboxers managed to do it with several, but it's not really needed, or you can do it on one PC if it's very powerful).

if you go around doing quests and dungeons on one PC and keep your character crafting on the second, that's perfectly doable. You're not using any external program, because all you have to do is to press the arrows and enter on the second keyboard once every few seconds, so you're not botting.

It allows you to focus on adventuring while still making millions of gil with crafting at the same time.

Other examples are levelinking with the two characters (putting a character on follow, no external program, no botting). It effectively doubles the gold earned. Spiritbonding is another... The examples are multiple. And there are PLENTY people in the game that do it.

I know full well what dual boxing is.
You're still playing the game to progress in the game.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Absolutely. If you don't have the money, you can't play. Can't be more radical than that.

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If any individual isn't willing to put forth their money to help put food on the tables of the families of developers who work their asses off making our game fantastic:

Then get the ____ out. We don't want you here.

There are many alternatives, they won't be Final Fantasy though.

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Originally Posted by ArnoMorley

You're stating each of your opinions as facts and they're not and that makes them lies.

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You are as well. Are you calling yourself a liar? Ah, hypocrisy...

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on point 1, basically dude if somebody can't afford 10$ a month they have no business playing ANY game. My utilities alone are probably over 500 a month, at least 200 a week on food, if people are so strapped for cash they can't afford 10 bucks they shouldn't be playing any game at all.

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That's not for you to decide.

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To even play this game at launch you needed a 1k+ PC 10 bucks is laughable

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You're not in the position to decide how other people manage their money.

[QUITE]I for one refuse to pay for other people to play[/QUOTE]

That's great, because no one forces you to.

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on point 2, in this system people who aren't using normal methods are making the most money. Playtime would be highly valuable, people who sell it would be richer than the people making money through normal methods. Sure I would still have my methods but they wouldn't make as much anymore.

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Nope. This is false. You'd be making exactly as much. Having some other people allegedly (because it's not a given) make more money than you doesn't reduce your earnings in any way.

What you're describing is simple, plain envy.

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And there is no way to limit it, if they limit it by account then people will just buy more accounts. If they limit it by credit cards people will just use different cards.

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So you're assuming that a large number of people (because just a few wouldn't even budge the economy, you need big numbers to move it) will go as far as buying several accounts and getting several credit cards to game the system? By that logic you can easily assume that people can hire someone to craft for them 24/7 making them millions of gils without moving a finger.

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And RMT has been basically nonexistant in this game... I believe you were the one earlier that said the worst thing about RMT is that they get in the way of content or cause other people to have a less enjoyable experience...
that doesn't happen in this game, i've only seen them doing leves.

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So you've seen them, but they don't exist? Interesting concept.

They do leves because that allows them to *CREATE* gil from nothing. Every multiboxed account that they use multiplies that money they create.

That's all gil that get created by the system and injected into the market, causing inflation. And the market in FFXIV Is *horribly* inflated.

Those groups of lalafells that look the same and have weird names that you see scampering around doing guildleves are the FFXIV equivalent of a state printing too much money and reducing the value of money itself in the process.

It affects *everyone*, even if you just see them while doing guildleves.

For people who are saying rl money doesn't effect the game what do you suppose the RMTs are doing with the gill they make...
I suppose they could be hording a lot of it for 2.0 but it would still be dumped into the economy at some point.

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Originally Posted by ArnoMorley

on point 1, basically dude if somebody can't afford 10$ a month they have no business playing ANY game. My utilities alone are probably over 500 a month, at least 200 a week on food, if people are so strapped for cash they can't afford 10 bucks they shouldn't be playing any game at all.

To even play this game at launch you needed a 1k+ PC 10 bucks is laughable

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Imagine a player who has achieved everything he ever wanted to achive in this game. Why should he keep paying 10$ a month, although theres nothing that he wants to achieve anymore? In WoW, people just unsubbed. Don't call me out on the social aspect, i know it exists and it kept me playing. Others might just stick to voice comms and unsub.

Now, imagine this veteran player would be able to spend his enormous amounts of gil to pay for his sub. There's nothing interesting to spend money on anymore, anyway. Wham, a veteran stays, other benefit from his knowledge. He may spend some time with new players or just enjoy to help out some pickups.

That player would be gone otherwise. He found a "magical" way to stay. And SE is still earning money from this player's sub, even though he doesn't spend a single buck on it.

Don't you like this idea?

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Originally Posted by debola

Yh. rl money doesnt affect the game in any way atm. what way do u think it does?. #justasking

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Do you remember the Atomos exploit? I believe it should still be fresh in people's minds. All of a sudden, massive amounts of new currency was introduced into the economy because NPCing items CREATES currency. Do you remember what happened to market ward prices right after that? Prices for certain materia doubled because people could afford to spend more on it. This is called inflation and it happens when large amounts of currency are introduced into circulation.

What does this have to do with RMT? Well RMT relies on doing this on a massive scale constantly. The Atomos exploit was nerfed twice in 1 week. While it may seem like the RMT bots aren't harming anyone by running around doing leves, it's actually causing significant damage to the economy. Let's say an average leve has 5k gil as a quest reward. This is money that is introduced into circulation because quest rewards are money from nothing. RMT generally does this in full parties of 8 with leve sharing. So that equals 40k gil per leve. They also get 8 leves per day per character (64 leves per day). That equals 2.56 million created gil every day for free, just from doing leves. This doesn't even take into account revenue generated from item drops and rewards from the leves. And that's just with 8 characters, but typical RMT operations run many more than that. RMT is bad because it relies on methods that introduce new money into circulation, devaluing all other currency in circulation and thus causing inflation. Said another way, RMT is like people exploiting the Atomos drops all day every day since the beginning of the game. If that's not bad the for economy, I don't know what is.

It probably goes without saying, but the reason they do this is because people employ RMT services. It's an undeniable fact. You definitely know at least one person who has purchased gil in this game. That is how real money ties in with a game economy. Conversely, while a PLEX system is technically RMT in that it essentially trades real money for game money, it does so without causing inflation because it does not introduce additional currency into circulation. This method promotes transfer of wealth without the downsides of the above described RMT methods.

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Originally Posted by A_Hortensia

I know full well what dual boxing is.
You're still playing the game to progress in the game.



If any individual isn't willing to put forth their money to help put food on the tables of the families of developers who work their asses off making our game fantastic:

Then get the ____ out. We don't want you here.

There are many alternatives, they won't be Final Fantasy though.

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The exact same number of subscriptions will be paid for. While it's nice to think that the developers appreciate every player on an individual level, it's really not the case. Square Enix cares about the number of "paid for" subscriptions and that's it. This system might convince an endgame player to continue his subscription by spending gil to make someone else pay for his sub and that's one more $10 fee that SE has retained, rather than letting it lapse.

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Originally Posted by A_Hortensia

I know full well what dual boxing is.
You're still playing the game to progress in the game.

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And you get an advantage putting in more money, but spending exactly the same amount of time.

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If any individual isn't willing to put forth their money to help put food on the tables of the families of developers who work their asses off making our game fantastic:
Then get the ____ out. We don't want you here.
There are many alternatives, they won't be Final Fantasy though.

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What an elitist statement. But ultimately not very realistic.

With this system people that would pay their account with gil would still work for it. Just in a different way (gathering gil). By paying gil to those selling the chronoscroll/PLEX item, they provide the motivation for them to give more money to the developers, rather directly helping put food on the tables of the developers who work their asses off.

Also, as an episode of extra credits very aptly stated, even players who don't directly pay are a resource for developers, as they *are* by all means and purpose *content* that helps keeping the game crowded and lively, making it more attractive.

For someone so worried about helping put food on the tables of the families of the developers who work their asses off, you're very quick at dismissing a method that would help retaining subscribers, which equates to putting food on the tables of the families of the developers who work their asses off.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

And you get an advantage putting in more money, but spending exactly the same amount of time.



What an elitist statement. But ultimately not very realistic.

With this system people that would pay their account with gil would still work for it. Just in a different way (gathering gil). By paying gil to those selling the chronoscroll/PLEX item, they provide the motivation for them to give more money to the developers, rather directly helping put food on the tables of the developers who work their asses off.

Also, as an episode of extra credits very aptly stated, even players who don't directly pay are a resource for developers, as they *are* by all means and purpose *content* that helps keeping the game crowded and lively, making it more attractive.

For someone so worried about helping put food on the tables of the families of the developers who work their asses off, you're very quick at dismissing a method that would help retaining subscribers, which equates to putting food on the tables of the families of the developers who work their asses off.

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I think the biggest and most pressing question is: What you do get/gain from a system like this. Why are you pushing so hard for this. Personally we dont need this kinda of system no matter what kind of reasons or excusses anyone can come up with. I believe there's more to this than what you are saying and I highly doubt this is for SE or other players benefits. It would be nice if the mods would come close this thread as all you are doing is bumping it for your own agenda.

You either just want to play for free or you want to make gil without doing anything... that's what it boils down to neither one is fair. And like I pointed out earlier you're not even playing this game, 2,400 posts on the forum but 2 50s come on man...


If you spent the same amount of time playing that you did trolling you'd have every class in the game at 50
If people aren't playing they don't deserve gil, period.