It's still the nose on the thinner side. I'm not sure if I can properly explain what I meant by the original being "too thin" and caused by the lack of polygons, but I'll try. It's not too thin up by the bridge where there's a hook. It's too thin down by the tip and on the flesh of the nostrils, where it's very obvious to me that lack of polygons are responsible for the devs not being able to make nostrils that had any bulk to them, resulting in something that was not as extreme as what Michael Jackson had done to his nose, but something similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyson
You can see this being a polygon issue most easily by standing in really harsh lighting, it makes it easier to see there isn't naught but triangles there when there should be more shape.
In any case, the Dawntrail version corrects that. The bridge isn't any thicker and I don't think the tip is much, if any thicker. Probably it's a lighting change, or a texture change, that resulted in the loss of the slight curve. If they found a way to change that I wouldn't mind, but I will be most displeased if they shrink the nostril flesh down.
Naturally. I like this nose option. I like lots of things about it. I didn't really want it to be thicker per se, I wanted it to look less like it had some plastic surgery done on it, which it kinda had done when it got axed from 1.0 to ARR. One way or another, I'm telling SE I like the change!Quote:
I suspect you just prefer this nose option over the others but have always wanted it to be a bit thicker, and that is certainly understandable but I can't agree with the idea of everyone just going along with the change to fulfill your wish at the cost of pushing their personal preferences aside.
This is down to the change in materials and lighting. Endwalker doesn't have subsurface scattering while Dawntrail does. That will naturally change how the surface skin color looks, since the light is actually passing through it and bouncing back off a layer meant to suggest the underlying flesh with its blood and bone. It is subtle but it will change how the surface color looks. This is exactly why we are getting free fantasias. Hopefully a shade or two different from the one you have now will get you back to where you prefer the look.Quote:
The skin tone (RGB 169, 133, 104) has changed and is darker than it is on live. I don't know how this can happen when we literally have the RGB values, but there it is.
I shall join the candlelight vigil for improved eyebrow paint though. I don't use it myself, but it sure would be nice for it to look better for those of you who do.
Updated benchmark
Printable View
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06-07-2024, 05:37 AMAstronis
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06-07-2024, 07:51 AMposona
I’m relatively pleased with the new benchmark. My boy definitely looks more like himself now, the upward slant of his eyes was restored and his lower lip looks fuller. With the previous lighting his nose looked upturned when it’s actually very straight and downward-pointing. Also they fixed the awful paint-splatter highlights in his hair.
https://imgur.com/4s5lLoE.jpg
https://imgur.com/vuIUxaI.jpg
His lower lip still isn’t as full as it is in the current game, but I’m making my peace with it. The eye color is much darker so I went down a shade, but now they’re paler than in-game. -
06-07-2024, 10:25 AMmdv8
Cross-posting this here for visibility.
I am very unhappy with the way the new benchmark makes my character look, because to put it simply they look like a different person in the benchmark. Someone else here in the forums said that the benchmark character looks like my character's older sister, which I think is very accurate. Comparison posted below. This picture is about the closest I could get them to looking the same, but in motion (in the benchmark video) it is even more noticeably different. This is a fem midlander, face 5, jaw 1, eye 1, iris size large, eyebrow 1, nose 4, mouth 4.
I think it is both that the face shape looks different and the personality of the character looks different as well. The face being a different shape might be due to slimmer/less rounded cheeks, and eye shape looks different as well (maybe it's the outside corners of the eyes). Either of these could be due to the lighting or a difference in the model, I can't say for sure.
The difference in personality I think is due to both the eyes and the mouth. In the current patch (right picture), the eyes look brighter and more curious rather than dull and empty. The mouth in the benchmark also lacks the slight smile and slightly open lips (which you can only see from a lower angle than in this picture), which adds to the expression of brightness and engagement with what they are looking at. I think this is where the impression that the character on the left is the "older" sister of my current character, as they just look tired and empty inside.
Because of this, they look like a different character on both the inside (personality) and outside (different face). I don't think it would take a lot to change things (though I am ignorant of how this type of design works), because a small difference goes a long way to helping a face look familiar. But that works both ways, as a small difference is currently giving me the impression that my character is going to be turned into a totally different person.
https://i.imgur.com/Lj0MzNh.png -
06-07-2024, 11:51 AMStrika23
https://imgur.com/a/Q4iJieE
https://imgur.com/hq1903b
My Fem Roe's upper lip and eyeliner/eye shadow look very off. Also Black hair now looks more grey than black.
Her skin, hair, iris, gear, and overall graphic texture has drastically improved- but I am so upset by the lips/make up. I want her upper lip, glossy lips and dark eye make up back!
I feel really disappointed going into the expansion. -
06-08-2024, 12:20 AMThais
I just wanted to add another positive note about the updated graphics. While it doesn't feel like it with a lot of details, I think they really are doing their best to review and refine our characters.
I mentioned in my prior post that they adjusted my eyes to bring the look closer to what is current. I decided to capture another more direct comparison. From what I gathered across the forums, no one that uses Midlander face 1 remarked much about the eyes. I couldn't find any feedback that distinctly pointed that out. At most, what was said is that the feel was different but that isn't any different to what anyone else has been saying. However, the devs seemed to notice, on their own, that it wasn't quite right and made a big adjustment.
https://imgsli.com/MjcwNTY1
You'll see from that image slider that they changed the shape and adjusted where his eyes sit on his face ever-so-slightly.
Because they made this adjustment that no one exactly scrutinized (but definitely needed to be corrected), it makes me hopeful that they're doing the best they can and that we'll see some more refinements before and possibly during Dawntrail. Maybe it demonstrates that they're aware that they really have to get the integrity of the characters as close as possible. It probably can't be exact because this is a graphical update (my character doesn't look exactly the same) but I think it can be very close. -
06-08-2024, 03:20 AMGlenfiddich
Final Fantasy XIV Dawntrail details its graphics update...
SE, Naoki Yoshida: ''Yoshida says the final version will be of higher quality, but they really did take care to make sure that your impressions of the characters wouldn’t change.''
SE changes Mouth, Lips, Eyes, Eyelashes, Eeyshadow...
Thank you for your hard work. -
06-09-2024, 12:00 AMLen_
I posted my feedback for the previous benchmark here.
Compared to the first benchmark, the impression of the "round and cute" face I complained about last time appears much improved by the new rendering adjustments. The shadows and angles from before have returned. With that aspect, I'm happy.
However the eyes and mouth are still unacceptable to me. I'd like to draw your attention to the eyes in this gif I made that fades between 6.58 and Benchmark 1.1. I tried to align the whites of the eyes in both images to show the differences. If other areas seem to be shifting it's because of the subtle idle animation in the character creator.
https://i.imgur.com/FnaHqiO.gif
When I open the character creator in the benchmark, my overwhelming impression can be summed up with this meme:
The eyes are too big and opened compared to how they were before. Perhaps it's too subtle to notice for someone else but, I have been familiar with this face since 2010 and have looked at it for 1000s of hours. The big eyes are the main thing I notice and I just can't stand it. The mouth is still awful too. In both cases, the changes are due to the model geometry and not some kind of lighting or rendering effect. If these aspects will not be corrected, I would like to be able to "give up hope as soon as possible" as another user put it. I remember during the 2.0 closed beta, the response to many complaints and criticisms being "Working as Intended." So, no need to hold back this time in letting us know.
I also humbly request for YoshiP to stop gaslighting the players by suggesting that we can "fine tune" changes we're not satisfied with in the character creator. Everyone who plays this game knows that is not possible. Unless there are some brand new features you're planning to unveil with the release of 7.0 that haven't been shared yet, to say otherwise is just a plain lie. As it stands, the choices players have if they're not satisfied with their new character graphics are as follows:
1) Deal with it.
2) Pick a different option. Your character will still look different but perhaps in a way that isn't as upsetting to you.
3) Make a new character entirely.
When I see YoshiP allude to some currently non-existent 4th option that will actually satisfy the players' complaints, it pisses me off. Players can't "fine tune" anything. The only ones who can are the developers (or modders). We're not stupid. If you expect the players to accept that you won't fix certain things then please convey that without saying absurd things like that the character creator is capable of "fine tuning."
I'd like to express my frustration in general so, if you don't care you can stop reading here.
I see a lot of people thanking the devs for their "hard work" and taking time out of their "busy schedule" to address this issue as if it's something trivial. I can't help but quesiton the sincerity of that sentiment. I certainly don't feel that way. From information that was shared to the players, it seems that the unifying of the facial model geometry was done to make the developers jobs easier when designing gear, making animations, etc. This is a technical detail that no player asked for. In the past the development team used to conduct player surveys. If there was one that asked "Would you accept your WoL looking weird and different if it made the developers' work easier?" I wonder how many would have replied Yes. I'm annoyed at how during each live letter update regarding the character graphics, YoshiP kept reiterating that the goal was to preserve the overall impression of the characters "as much as possible" and seemed aware of how important this aspect is to the game and to many players who are very attached to their characters. It seems this directive was not passed down to the people actually doing the work. Looking through everyone's feedback posts, some of the differences players have shared are so blatant and obvious that anyone with eyes, let alone a professional artist and character designer can see that certain important details and the overall impressions are completely different. I don't accept that these changes are inevitable and unfixable just because the models went from low to high poly. We live in a world with 3D fighting games flawlessly emulating the style of 2D animation in high definition. This graphic update is simple in comparison. It's a matter of the amount of care and attention to detail the developers put in. It leads me to believe that most of the work may have been done by AI or some other automated process to save money. And then you just released it like that hoping not many people would complain. It's what I would expect of a soulless corporation like Square Enix. But hey, since I'm paying to be able to post on this forum I might as well vent my feelings anyway. Rather than thank the developers, I'd like to commend all the players who I feel put more personal effort into their feedback than I suspect was put into the character updates in the first place. -
06-09-2024, 12:59 AMLlymlaenGreene
and it looks like they've already gotten away with it and we won't see any drastic changes. Of course, I will try to do the work for them * I mean, I will point out that the eyes are different now, the mouth and so on, but I still think that users should not do it for them. They have original characters and new ones, but they just decide to change the details for no reason. A vivid example of this is the pupil size of different Viera clans. Initially, they were of different sizes, but the developers just took and made them the same size* but they don't do the work based on reviews
using the example of my character, I believe that from a contented, slightly smiling and confident heroine, she turned into a scared girl.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...73c6b90548667&
Why am I writing that they won't change anything? Because yesterday I did something stupid and asked for support from the reddit community. What a stupid thing that was. I gave them photos as an example, where it is visible to the naked eye, * I am silent about such details as different mouths, eye shape and so on* that the general appearance of the character looks different and I urge the community to pay attention to hyur's problems, all very politely and with words of love. And what do you think? No one agreed, lol, moreover, some even scoffed, while others just say, go into another character. I think Yoshi and his game still have appeal for me, but this cult of the perfect leader and the perfect game discourages me. And I only slightly criticized the current state on reddit, but they just subsequently deleted my post and banned my account. For me, the ff14 reddit community just doesn't exist anymore. I will speak very sharply, but it seems that even if the developers spit in the face of those people, they will say that everything is fine and it tastes like fresh dew. I'm sorry if it sounds so categorical.
you can read those comments yourself. A parallel reality.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...s_please_make/
of course, there is a small hope that they will still listen to the Japanese forum, but even there it is clearly visible, things are right where they started. Developers are presented with dozens of screenshots that, for example, eyes of a different shape. The benchmark is coming out, Chief Yoshi says that we listened to you. And what do we see? The eyes are the same shape. I don't know what they listened to for a month and a half. Added lighting, yes. *of course, there are fixes, such as male elezens have become angular again, and that's cool. But I can't say that about huur female midlander/* Well, how about a slightly smiling mouth. Now the mouth is smiling slightly in reverse. I don't think it's worth explaining how the appearance of a face changes when a character smiles and when not? In my example hyur, they simply repainted the eyelashes lol, although there were posts on the Japanese forum about a different type of eyes on this character.
https://imgsli.com/MjY5OTA1/0/2
here you can see what they have fixed. This is not my character, I took it from a nearby topic. They changed the eyelashes, and that's it. And the fact that the slight smile has disappeared? And who cares. Use flexible customization with Fantasia *Flexible - only 5 mouths that don't match what you need*
for me this is huge difference! these dimples on the tips of the lips literally make a smile a reverse smile
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...48a3510314444& -
06-09-2024, 01:04 AMAlya_F4
Overall I'm satisfied with the graphical updates for au ra. My only complaint is that they made the root color so dark for Dawntrail. It is very off-putting to see black roots for my white/grey hair and I'm surprised I haven't seen other people complain as much about it. It looks okay with other colors, especially darker hair colors, but I really hate how it looks with my hair and it is so obvious during the scenes in the benchmark :( Not all my glams have hats either so I'll be stuck looking at it unless it gets changed.
https://i.imgur.com/5jgO7HN.png -
06-09-2024, 01:29 AMEluvyelQuote:
Originally Posted by Alya_F4
This doesn't look like it's part of the texture, that looks like a weird shadow from either the new lighting system or the new ambient occlusion options. Have you checked with AO entirely disabled if it remains?