Monk Needs a Complete Rework

Wow, these 40 pages were quite an enjoyable read. I would like to make a contribution.

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Originally Posted by Irisdina_Wiloh

I'd be curious to know what you'd suggest as some sort of buffer skill?

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Personally, I would transform TK into the following buffer skill:

Tornado Kick: Weaponskill (Cooldown: 15s)
If the last three weaponskills used had the same directional requirement, executes Light Kick.
Otherwise, executes Shadow Kick.
If any of the last three weaponskills used had no directional requirement, this action is unusable.

Light Kick: Delivers an attack with a potency of 300

Shadow Kick: Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Additional Effect: Damage over time
Potency: 30
Duration: 36s

If the 15s cooldown is affected by Greased Lightning and SkS, it should be usable every odd rotation. I think it ties nicely between the Coeurl and Opo-opo skills. It also fits slightly better with the lore of the 50-60 job quests. Obviously, the potencies would have to be tweaked. And something would have be nerfed in return.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Honestly I am even a bit nervous about just the next patch alone.
I've just been feeling so unmotivated as of late because I've sorta lost hope that anything is going to happen with Monk, thinking about the next expansion makes me even more nervous.

The devs have gotten a lot of great tips and discussion on this already, it's just that they need to act.

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No point in feeling nervous fellow gamer :)
They will fix this job just as they fixed Sam and ninja, I'm sure of it, I just don't know when...probably by next expansion I would say. Although I feel monk needs a small buff right now since there are many jobs doing more dps then monk right now. Knowing how SE works I'm sure instead of a much desired rework that we all want we are just getting minor buffs next patch.

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Originally Posted by Ramura_Sono

And shouldn't have to wait 'til 6.0 or later to get it.

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My favorite things about this post is that its concise and very direct. No long winded wind up or diatribe of personal anecdote. The preceding posts also helped to further explain the issue.

I see a lot of people crying for reworks But I dont see many explaining "how?" as in what do u propose? last time they reowrked a job they cut its *** off

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Originally Posted by Jirah

I see a lot of people crying for reworks But I dont see many explaining "how?" as in what do u propose? last time they reowrked a job they cut its *** off

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Speckledburd gave a breakdown of all problems on page 1, literally the 4th post. Which should imply what needs to be changed. As far as "how" gameplay mechanic could be changed or reworked just check the last 5 pages here. Myself and others have given a lot of feedback on how they could change things. Further, just check the threads which have offered possible changes. I'm not sure how you struggled to find any explanation as to how to change the job when there's so many posts out there, including half of this thread.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...of-Life-Change

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ework-thoughts

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...eally-that-bad

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Originally Posted by Sora_Oathkeeper

I'm not sure how you struggled to find any explanation as to how to change the job when there's so many posts out there, including half of this thread.

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It’s indeed hardly fair to claim that we do not propose changes. But there is a lot of talk about removing things. It’s not because we want to gut the monk even more than it is right now. It’s simply because it’s easier to reach a consensus.

For example, if I say: “The current Tornado Kick is unsatisfactory and the devs should rework it or give us a tool to quickly gain back the lost Greased Lightning.”, few will argue against that. However, if I say: “Guys, I think we should change Tornado Kick into the following skill.”, like I did a few posts ago, there will be less agreement. It is to be expected. There is a lot of valid ways to rework the monk. Frankly, the bar is pretty low. Few reworks are received as well as FLeet229’s QoL changes. We each have our own opinion, after all.

So, at first glance, it’s easy to see us as players complaining about issues without being unified by a specific desired rework. Truth is, we are just hammering home the glaring problems hoping that the devs won’t mess up again next time.

P.S.: Just to be clear. I am not refuting what you said, Sora. I’m just starting my reply to Jirah from your last sentence.

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Originally Posted by Sora_Oathkeeper

Speckledburd gave a breakdown of all problems on page 1, literally the 4th post. Which should imply what needs to be changed. As far as "how" gameplay mechanic could be changed or reworked just check the last 5 pages here. Myself and others have given a lot of feedback on how they could change things. Further, just check the threads which have offered possible changes. I'm not sure how you struggled to find any explanation as to how to change the job when there's so many posts out there, including half of this thread.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...of-Life-Change

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ework-thoughts

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...eally-that-bad

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ill take a look at this thanks!

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Originally Posted by Jirah

I see a lot of people crying for reworks But I dont see many explaining "how?" as in what do u propose? last time they reowrked a job they cut its *** off

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It's odd to say that when this thread is full of proposed reworks if you'd just read it at all. For example, there was a Sabin/Zell hypothetical rework from a month or so ago where Perfect Balance would allow you to perform specific sequences of GCDs that would give you a finisher based on which sequence of Raptor/Opo Opo/Coeurl forms were used. I even dropped something here like, 3 pages ago.

I haven't read this entire thread yet but I'm with SpeckledBurd for his rework on the 1st page. I used to main monk and came back for Shadowbringers but monk just felt like so much work to do good dps. It also didn't help that so many of my skills were redundant , support , SUPER NICHE or SUPPORT RNG. Brotherhood is an awful ability as it is both RNG and requires a melee focused group in 8 which is literally counter to the meta (1% bonus for each class) and feels useless in 4 man content. I also REALLY disliked that TK, Six-sided star and Antaman as they were such amazingly cool looks skills but well never see cuz they've too niche.

I'm sure this will not be received well but, I think the devs made a big mistake when they basically gave SAM the MNK's role. That being the role of highest potential dps melee, imo (after playing both at 80) monk is far more involved and complex and imo should be the dps king via optimization. Since SAMs release MNKs have been in a weird limbo with the devs .They cant have too much power because it takes away from SAM , They cant have good support because it takes away from NIN and DRG. It just ended up with the highly skilled top end players using crazy, tight, ping reliant optimizations and beating SAM in dps ever so slightly then SAMs screaming for MNK nerfs. The devs just seem like they don't want to give monk any more tools because they dont want to deal with the drama. But in SHB today you see monks being beaten by ninjas too not just SAMs anymore and ninja was suppose to a debuffs style melee support that actually has good support. Nin has also received alot of QoL making them sore in popularity but for the life of me I dont understand why monk doesnt received the same level of treatment. I'd argue that mechanically before NIN and MNK were equally as clunky.

What im getting at is its hard to play monk not just from the myiad of mechanics & impossible to hit positionals perspective but from an evolution perspective too. If you've played since ARR you've use the same 6 buttons for the past 6 1/2 years with nothing really added to your kit and actually have had more unique skills removed than added. Its really demotivating to watch SAM come out in SB with a ton of beautiful flashy impactful skills, be told to wait your turn then get nothing in SHB while seeing SAM get more cool flashy impactful skills they use all the time. Hell most if not all of the skills added in SHB aren't even used regularly in 4 man content. It almost feels like they just want you to switch, you have all the gear already save the weapon, your life will be easier in terms of rotation and you get a cool fast pace job. I dont understand why monk is treated so poorly.

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Originally Posted by Silverneck

Sinp

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I 100% agree, BH is the skill that killed MNK and SAM should not be the top Melee dps, it just baffling. I will say, however, that there are no impossible to hit positionals in current content thanks to True North and RoE.

I mean you can just take a look at the asthetics of the class and see how little care is put into it. Running animations? MNK doesnt have an unique one. LB animation? MNK doesnt have a unique one (its the same one that every melee had in 2.x). Snap, twin and true strike look bland AF.

That there are no visual indicators for basic BnB stuff like Leadenfist or Twinsnakes, is just bad desing periot, the icons get lost into the menagerie of buffs is terrible (this not only affects MNK ofcourse), that in order for any MNK to properly use some of its skillset said MNK needs a thrid party software is ridiculous and clearly they want MNK to use anatman in the opener otherwise they would have killed it like they did with the NIN rotation and the TK rotation(a rotation which i personaly hate becuase of my high ping but love because it uses the majority of the MNK skills). MNK is literally a pile of bad desing choices or oudated ones, party composition dependancy? why? A niche support skill for a mediocre buff that affects MNKs basic rotation, who thinks of stripping control from the players hands and says "Yep this is good". BH is the only skill in the game that actually affects the rotation based on RNG and party composition, why is this even a thing? Why is MNK being punished for using its skills? No other class does this and yes, NO OTHER CLASS DOES THIS, other classes punish you for using the skill wrong or nilly willy, MNK punsihes you for using the skill full stop (I.e TK, Six sided star).

The fact that MNK has only 2 oGCDs is absurd at best (and NO Forbiden chakra is not a oGCD is an RNG skill that shares 100% of it resource with a flashier but ultimately gutted version of Hollowfist)