Our passive characters and why the 2.55 story fails (BIG SPOILERS) (rant warning)

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Still people fail to understand when you should fight and when you should just simply run. Our characters are not gods, they can be killed. How many do you expect to fight? Because in reality, you have an entire city of enemies. It's best to just get out of there before you're overwhelmed and killed...and im talking about the people of Eorzea. They look up to your character. What do you expect would happen if the person that everyone looked up to is suddenly branded a traitor and a assassin? There goes whatever hope that is left. Not every situation has to result in our characters fighting, sometimes the best option is just to escape.

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...I now realize we're talking about the same thing. I'm saying that before you were bound up you should've fought to escape rather than submitting, because there was no guarantee that the following events would've transpired to facilitate your escape. Because honestly, can anyone say with a straight face that the WoL, as s/he has been presented by the game so far, calculated that everything would work out the way it did and that s/he'd be able to escape by doing nothing? Because I can't. Anyways, glad to have that cleared up.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

I know and they probably believe you're innocent because there were no reports of you fighting. Just an escape. Personally, it's more convincing if you ask me.

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I'd say the convincing part is the fact that you've fought to save Eorzea dozens of times over and have literally zero good reasons to kill Nanamo, but that's just me.

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Originally Posted by FrejyaAthenes

I'd say the convincing part is the fact that you've fought to save Eorzea dozens of times over and have literally zero good reasons to kill Nanamo, but that's just me.

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That's something to take to the writers. I'm not the one that wrote the story. I just have my own personal view on it. Anyways, let's just agree that everyone has their own opinions about the situation.

I, personally, enjoy story arcs like this. When it's proven that the hero isn't untouchable and they're brought to a low point (betrayed and framed for murder). That allows us to pull ourselves back up, rise to the occasion and show that we still are the hero of Eorzea.

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Originally Posted by Mimiru_S

I, personally, enjoy story arcs like this. When it's proven that the hero isn't untouchable and they're brought to a low point (betrayed and framed for murder). That allows us to pull ourselves back up, rise to the occasion and show that we still are the hero of Eorzea.

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I can understand that.

Though, I'm not sure why the game lets us just wander back into Ul'dah after this whole thing goes down (too many logistics, I suppose).

Also, I agree with what some have said in that it absolutely SHOULD have been Minfilia meeting with the sultana, as she's the leader, not us. Then, we wouldn't even be having the discussion of why our character was so useless. Hell, I could've cast leeches and saved her... :P

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

I have a theory that Tataru swapped places with the empress.

We know SOMETHING is up with her due to the way she gave us that odd look over her shoulder before she headed off. Also, she was MIA the whole time everything was going down and then she just SUDDENLY turns up last moment...

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I'm open to the idea, but at the same time not, as it probably means Tataru is dead instead. :(

I've recently started a new character (GLD) on a new server, so I've got to refresh my memory on the Ul'dah starting zone quests, which I hadn't played through since beta (I went Limsa on EA/release). So, if there was a body double (not necessarily Tataru), or the poison wasn't fatal and an escape occurred, then I'm thinking it's possible a certain Lady Lilira may make a reappearance at some point?

hey this thread is still going!

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Still people fail to understand when you should fight and when you should just simply run. Our characters are not gods, they can be killed. How many do you expect to fight? Because in reality, you have an entire city of enemies. It's best to just get out of there before you're overwhelmed and killed...and im talking about the people of Eorzea. They look up to your character. What do you expect would happen if the person that everyone looked up to is suddenly branded a traitor and a assassin? There goes whatever hope that is left. Not every situation has to result in our characters fighting, sometimes the best option is just to escape.

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In this instance I expect to fight thew few soldiers that are obviously corrupt that just burst into the sultanas chambers. Unless every soldier in the city is waiting outside that door, I can easily take the few that show up. The problem in the situation comes down to How likely are these people to kill me? In that moment, my character is far from helpless. Once apprehended, on the other hand... Considering they were more than willing to commit regicide, my chances for survival in custody are essentially nil, logically speaking. To clear my name I have to expose the entire plot anyway, which means anyone I kill in that room is known to be part of the conspiracy and justifiable self defense. Would anyone really believe that those responsible for killing the Sultana wouldn't have a problem immediately then killing me?

The important thing in this situation is to survive to get to the bottom of things, and surrendering to a few guards I hilariously out skill and out gun just not the correct call to make. Do I have to kill them all? probably not. Would I be ultimately justified in doing so? probably. Would I kill them all? I don't know. As a Ninja main evading is the easiest option, probably.

The only way submitting in that situation would make sense would be if I were too weak to do what I do best, they had the drop on me and incapacitated me before I could react, or there was someone far more powerful arresting me. If I had been poisoned? I Wouldn't be making this argument. If the lady-In-Waiting sapped me in the back of the head as Teledji burst in the room? I wouldn't be making this argument. If Ilberd spartan kicked me into the wall if I tried anything? I wouldn't be making this argument.

I'm making these arguments because everything that happens from when the Sultana hits the floor onward DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. And it completely ruins everything following it.

I honestly can't believe that it is still going. @_@

Well, I said my piece for the most part. I would've had Kallera resist the initial arrest. All that was clear was that she was being set up as a fall girl for the handmaiden. If you want me to go into more detail into events between then and the banquet, just ask. :). Sounds like a nice situation for folks to write out actually...

I loved the story, was not expecting any of that to happen, and definitely cried a few times watching all the cut scenes and finales.

I do think there were logical reasons for everything. Getting the "Blessing of Light" taken from us by Midgardsormr was difficult to watch, I was angry, but I believe they did it to show you can't always rely on the powers of others and have to find the power within yourself to survive. That also tied in with the story, I believe, to why our personal characters story-wise did not retaliate. A lot of "strong" characters in the story, were being broken down, one by one, Alphinaud being the most broken, showing that he as well as the others are not perfect. Almost like our personal characters are lost without the "Blessing of Light", and it showed well in the story.

I WILL say however, why didn't Papalymo just break down the gate to block off the incoming attackers, instead of locking himself and Yda to fight them alone?!?

Also, I was extremely happy that Taledji got cut up and died, I was like "YES!", lol.

Let me explain some things as well as a few bits of common sense. Obviously this is a game, and while I am certain there is some sort of plot twist that will be played off of this. Having said that I can see no reason, logically speaking, to have made us so... timid. Now I will grant the nay sayers this much; indeed we had just come from a battle with a contingent of the Dravanian Horde so it does stand to reason that we were, in fact, tired. BUT the argument can be made that were we THAT tired we wouldn't have been able to make the trip from Mor Dhona to Ul'dah much less that side business with Momodi. So we could say that, in the interest of thoroughness, teleported but if we had teleported into Ul'dah how could we had not done the same to escape?

Most would contend that the reason behind this is to stand before the "world leaders" and that would, along with the lack of will to fight, somewhat prove our innocence. I could live with that had the circumstances been anything other than what we had been involved in. Laughably, some have contended that we had no real interaction with Nanamo so why get all wound up over it. For me it is the principle of the thing. Sure I will concede that from a total apathetic point of view it doesn't matter for the least involved storyline character to die off in order to further the story plot. But Nanamo, to me anyway, for the little interaction we get was a very tragic character who, despite her best and well meaning intentions would be thwarted by the likes of Lolorito. Just because you don't know the person that was murdered doesn't mean it's ok for them to be murdered in front of you, you take the blame like a blind, deaf, mute and go "Well, if I look stupid enough they won't believe it was me". I'm afraid that the argument works both ways and silence is not always golden.

Common sense would at least dictate that if those with such low morals and regard for others can murder their own monarch without a tiny shred of guilt, then without you or someone else having spoken up or acted in your defense you are as good as dead. What? Did you think before Raubahn jumped in that Teledji and the others were going to just let us go? That is the very definition of naïve. But the political implications! Really?.. They just killed their ruler for "personal" gain and framed you for it. Attempted to kill the leader of the Immortal Flames, which I am oh so certain has the army happy at the moment (sarcasm). There was already insurmountable political implications the moment Nanamo hit the floor. These fools have mercenaries for body guards/army. Please, tell me, how will the Brass Blades and Crystal Braves withstand an Imperial invasion? They won't. As soon as they find out they have Garlemald coming in droves to get a HUGE foothold in Eorzea they'd run quicker than crap through a goose. And the forward base already exists in Northern Thanalan. Yep, Castrum Meridianum. So tell me, how would we have made things worse by "clearing" the room? Oh yeah, no weapons... Raubahn solved that problem.

Lastly I am not a violent person by nature but the excuses for our characters to act like two year olds in a war zone are as full of holes as an anthill. Violence was needed from us and we were made to cower and run from the scum of Eorzea. Sorry if the reality of the situation upsets you but then again I've never much cared if people were upset by the truth.