Dark Knight Megathread

Unless we start seeing significant room for utility, I actually have little to no interest in seeing Dark Arts returned, though that has mostly to do with the skill being a "buff next action" more so than the ability to spend MP to augment actions. The latter bit I like, and I certainly prefer that over just the "Deal ST or AoE potency" of Edge/Flood. But, I just don't see the point in (A) basic buffs nor (B) reducing action responsiveness by using a "buff next action" skill instead of a "capitalize on last action skill" follow-up skill, especially given that the second can easily reduce button-conflicts, allow for tighter timing control, and generally allow for a more varied additional effect than can the buffing approach. It allows us, for instance, to just hit the CD's button a second time to follow up on it, with a discrete button being used only for our CD-less actions / GCDs.

Want to DA an Abyssal Drain as to steal further life over time (with, of course, the more immediate burst heal remaining on the initial button-press itself)? Just hit Abyssal Drain a second time within 5s or so of the original cast. Want to DA your Carve and Spit in order to tear off a few chunks of your enemy's soul for <some utility-minded effect with a bit of potency of potency per MP equal to all other DA options>? Just hit Carve and Spit a second time within 5s or so of the original cast.

I'm not even sure Dark Arts would be compatible with how drk is now. We've got one spammable gcd and the rest all have minute cooldowns or higher.
Adding Dark Arts effects to that would just make casting each skill require 2 weaves instead of 1, and I doubt you'd want to be spamming Dark Arts onto Edge of Shadow between every gcd.

I'd much rather they just focus on putting utility on the skills directly, and flesh out the TBN break system we have right now.

I'll take the rework card any day.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I'm not even sure Dark Arts would be compatible with how drk is now. We've got one spammable gcd and the rest all have minute cooldowns or higher.
Adding Dark Arts effects to that would just make casting each skill require 2 weaves instead of 1, and I doubt you'd want to be spamming Dark Arts onto Edge of Shadow between every gcd.

I'd much rather they just focus on putting utility on the skills directly, and flesh out the TBN break system we have right now.

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have you seen the DRK opener? Its nothing but double weaves. All they needed to do to make DA work was increase its recast timer (7-10 secs) and limit the amount of things it can affect.

Imo DA only needed to affect 4-5 skills max. It can replace edge/TBN as the 3k spender giving them more freedom to utilize the charge stacks. Imagine if you had 2 charges of TBN (15 sec recast) that cost no MP but if you DA it, it puts a scourge dot on all enemies around you when it pops. You now have the option to just use a 25% HP shield for free or you can DA it to get some damage when it pops and because TBN is free and on two charges, having your shield not pop is no longer an issue since it cost you nothing. They can also double down on the theme of DRK being the "charge" tank, having multiple uses of a cd that stacked on top of each other.

If DA existed in 6.0 it would only need to affect these skills:
-TBN (2 charges) puts scourge dot on all enemies nearby
-Edge of Shadow (2 charges) gets another free use
-Oblation (2 charges) increases to 15%
-Souleater increases HP restore to 200% of dmg dealt
-Stalwart Soul changes restore MP effect to restore HP

Ultimately the biggest loss was that awesome animation.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I'm not even sure Dark Arts would be compatible with how drk is now. We've got one spammable gcd and the rest all have minute cooldowns or higher.
Adding Dark Arts effects to that would just make casting each skill require 2 weaves instead of 1, and I doubt you'd want to be spamming Dark Arts onto Edge of Shadow between every gcd.

I'd much rather they just focus on putting utility on the skills directly, and flesh out the TBN break system we have right now.

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That's the thing
The DRK we have now is not the Dark I want. GCD Rotation wise(need I say more?), defensives (i like TBN, Oblation, but in general its clunky with DM, i rather Oblation have a small additional effect and TBN I like but should give you a damage gain for correct use instead of a loss for bad use), OGCD spam (gnb does "busy tank" a lot better), even the "theme" it barely even uses dark magic, instead having a pet and boring red doton. I honestly don't even feel like a cool dark magic tank when playing the job, just feels bland the visuals need updating aswell.

DRK needs a rework from the ground up its shameful how even the new jobs from shb and ew are better and have more thought for levels they don't even start with. Meanwhile, DRK is a HW job but it keeps getting gutted over and over again without care for the consequences. Besides SCH and AST I think its the only job that get gradually worse every expansion.

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Originally Posted by Mekhana

DRK needs a rework from the ground up its shameful how even the new jobs from shb and ew are better and have more thought for levels they don't even start with. Meanwhile, DRK is a HW job but it keeps getting gutted over and over again without care for the consequences. Besides SCH and AST I think its the only job that get gradually worse every expansion.

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I think it's a pattern with tanks/healers in particular, obviously not every tank has been getting worse every expansion (I'd argue the recent pld changes were overall worse despite making the job less clunky and how healer design works currently actually effects tanks needing to use defensives or utility properly), The design of anything that isn't a DPS at this point feels watered down and made sure that anyone can just pick up the roles at a basic level.... but this has been shown not to really increase play rate just increase complaints.

Dark Knight clearly is the weakest in tank design imo... well I'd argue warrior is also for completely different reasons, but tanks are really not in a great spot as a whole... need I even talk about healer design?

But I can agree if any tank deserves a rework, Dark Knight is it, but I really hope they actually look into the Point of tanking as a whole, as the entire role is just boring defensive DPS at this point.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

The design of anything that isn't a DPS at this point feels watered down and made sure that anyone can just pick up the roles at a basic level.... but this has been shown not to really increase play rate just increase complaints.

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This tbh.

No Idea how Dawntrail will impact Tanks (and also Healers) but if this continues I really hope that 8.0 will just release 1 Range Job and focus on Tank (and Healer) reworks, instead of two new Jobs.

I've already made a conscious decision to not level up Dark Knight in the next expac if doesn't get a rework that makes it feel less bad to play with raid buffs... because the oGCD spam makes it VERY hard to fit all of those oGCDs into 20 second burst window while also clipping the GCD...

You can convert Salt and Darkness into GCD spell that combos after Stalwart Soul and move it to level that Salted Earth is and it would make AoE feel slightly better, though could make Stalwart Soul and Salt and Darkness restore MP, Blood gauge, and restore HP equal to damage dealt per hit(see the Melee DPS Role Action Bloodbath for more details).

Heck you could make Blood Weapon be a mini Darkside that grants 15-25% haste which then becomes Darkside when you do the quest to unlock it, and then have Darkside become Living Shadow with the dark flames aura that also boosts potency by 100-300, and we can keep the ways to maintain Darkside and have those apply to Blood Weapon and Living Shadow.
Edit: Basically I just want to turn and maintain Darkside in and out of of combat with the haste effect of Heavensward/Stormblood Blood Weapon.
Edit 2: Have Darkside upgrade into Delirium to where it generates a Dark Arts stack every 15 seconds indicated by the Darkside timer(or gauge as the devs called it) and have Delirium become Living Shadow A.K.A. True Darkside.
Edit 8: For those who still want the summon pet mechanic, add a new ability called Summon Shadow and its duration and AI needs to be more like a Trust/Duty Support NPC that does Tank mechanics, give it an AoE Rescue for specific group mechanics, but CANNOT be used while at the same time as Living Shadow and should Esteem be KO'd, it grants Living Shadow automatically, or just keep as is right now which is basically a summon pet for 20+ seconds takes forever to wake up.

You could bring back Dark Passenger, make it GCD that costs MP, and have it combo into Flood of Darkness/Shadow, which then combos into Shadowbringer, and they all cost 3000 MP each, because the MP guzzling aspect of Dark Knight is enough to make it stand out from the other tanks, I just wish the MP spenders were GCDs, and I wish they gave Blood gauge, and restored HP equal to damage dealt per hit (see the Melee DPS Role Action Bloodbath for more details) and were DPS neutral in single target to Blood gauge spender at the start and ramps up, and you could make these share 1 button space like Gnashing Fang combo or Confiteor combo.
Edit 3: Could also add a predecessor to Shadowbringer at level 62 with 80 less potency than Shadowbringer.

Edge of Darkness/Shadow you could make it become a GCD weaponskill that cost 20 Blood gauge, that combos into Bloodspiller that costs 15 Blood Gauge, that combos into Carve and Spit that also cost 15 Blood gauge, and they could restore MP and restore HP equal to damage dealt(see the Melee DPS Role Action Bloodbath for more details), and you could also make these share 1 button.

You could make Quietus cost 15 Blood gauge and have restore MP, and make Abyssal Drain a GCD that cost 3000 MP that restore Blood gauge, make both restore HP equal to damage dealt per hit(see the Melee DPS role action Bloodbath for more details), and people would would try to find a use for these.
Edit 4: Could also keep Abyssal Drain an oGCD with 2 charges on 30 second recast timer because of "but muh APM" arguments.

Dark Arts button we can bring back as 60 second cooldown which grants 3 Dark Arts charges, which double the potency of all actions, ignore resources for 3 actions and if used on Dark Passenger, Flood of Darkness/Shadow, and/or Shadowbringer it converts Dark Arts into a new resource called Blood Arts which is basically triples damage dealt for Blood gauge spenders, but only in combat. The Blackest Night have the MP cost removed, but would need it's recast timer increased to 25 seconds, and if falls off 1 Dark Arts charge, if it breaks it grants 3 instead.
Edit 7: Could also have Dark Arts reduce recast timers of MP spenders to 1.5 seconds for a little more APM you thought you needed more APM.

You could bring back 4.3 Sole Survivor, buff it to where it increase damage dealt to enemies by 5%(or damage enemies receive to better understand it) and reduce the amount of damage that those enemies would deal to players by 10%, have it be 2 charges, and it would give Dark Knight a raid buff that's good against bosses and also good in dungeons. Not good for when bosses become non-targetable to keep it balanced.
Edit 5: Could also have it deal damage and make the recast timer 30 seconds but the duration is 10-ish seconds because of "but muh APM" arguments.

You could give the Dark Mind the Addle treatment, and it would feel less bad against physical tank busters.
Edit 6: Could also give Dark Missionary the Addle treatment on the off chance there is physical raidwide, and by extension Heart of Light since the effect is copy-pasted on Gunbreaker already.

You could make Living Dead just be a 20 second invuln that drops your HP to 1(you still take damage) that restores HP equal to damage dealt by 300%, and it would be better than Holmgang, and justify the 300 second cooldown. Yes I am aware that the other tanks would complain about their invuln not being as long as Living Dead but that's the point.

All of this would make up for the fact that Dark Knight would no longer have a massive oGCD spam during the course of fights, and feel a lot less janky to play and would probably make Dark Knight be SO MUCH better than when it first launched in Heavensward, with a lot more opportunities to pop a defensive or utility during burst....
Edit 9:This would also address the button bloat issue, as well as introducing older abilities to people who did not play Heavensward when it was relevant, while still introducing new abilities, and make leveling Dark Knight from 50-60 feel less braindead to an extent, because spamming 1-2-3 for more than 10 minutes might cause some kind of brain rot...

DRK has always been some level of ogcd spam, I don't think completely shifting away from that in a rework is a good idea.
The job needs more gcds, but I don't think it should be made into a gcd combo job, we already have PLD and WAR for that.

I also dont think its gameplay within buffs is all that bad, nor have I ever really struggled to keep everything in a buff window as hard as I have when I play GNB.
To me the issue with DRK is more of it feels really weak outside of raid buffs, and frail too considering you're never going to have TBN after any burst window if you've dumped everything into it.