SMN - Why it is not a very interesting job and not a good upgrade from ACN

Not this again....
lol... wasn't this like mentioned already, like 5 times?

Just suggest improvements rather than banter over what a summoner is, prephaps suggest something to make a summoner more like the summoner you want...
For me, if they changed icons, effects and ability names to something less, "disease" related would be cool, maybe some of your avid fans might have a suggestion?

eg, Change BIO name and icon to ___________

How about we think up some actual constructive adjustments? Things like changes to how stats scale to Ifrit/Titan or being able to use commands while spellcasting...

The (Un)Official Arcanist/Summoner Feedback Thread is always looking for constructive discussion.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

Lore-wise, yeah. Their offense was centered around the summon. Practically, or mechanically? No.


No, they won't.


Physick. Resurrection. Eye for an Eye. Rydia. Summons not being the main focus of supposed Summoners. They don't have to match the "decay" theme.





Lol?

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Do you actually plan on arguing a point of mine or are you simply going to argue semantics all day?

(P.S. Yes they will. Your statement is "no they won't". So tell me what Eiko, Garnet and Yuna will do if they wish to deal damage before A) the final dungeon in FF9 or B) using someone else's abilities, i.e. multiclassing.

Or just stop talking. You haven't actually countered an argument in any of your posts, so that might be preferable.)

Um...I think Holy.

I think I used Holy like, all the time, cause its always been the best thing ever.

EDIT: ps a lot of the summoners had white mage backgrounds too.

Would be neat to steal some white mage abilities (though I guess with Physick and stuff we're kinda stealing).

I think I stopped using summons shortly after I got them in almost every FF. They just lost their usefulness after the characters that use them get better spells. I pretty much spammed Holy with Eiko and primarily used Garnet as a healer. Same deal with Yuna, although the Aeons served as a decent meat shield.

If you took away their secondary abilities they have nothing left. FFT went this route with the summoner class. It was somewhat useful until spellcasting became worthless... unless you put on the Arithmetic ability and just Holy'd all the things on the screen.

Something I haven't seen on the forums but thought about for summoner was making Enkindle more usable/viable, possibly at the cost of Fester. This would not only eliminate the WoW Affliction Warlock-vibe a lot of people (including myself) get from the class, and put more emphasis on the pet. This would be a very simple mechanic to alter and I feel like it would make a world of difference in making one feel like a Summoner.

EDIT: Not to imply Enkindle should do more damage necessarily, but reducing the recast time, or maybe making it an Aetherflow ability instead.

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Originally Posted by Ardan

If you took away their secondary abilities they have nothing left.

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Actually, in every iteration I can think of up to 10 (except perhaps Evokers) summons have been on-par (or slightly below - in other words competitive) with other sources of damage - so long as you progressed in the story and achieved the "rare" summons. Tier 2 summons rivaled tier 2 spells even single target - generally slightly less, but not always. And the difference wasn't all that massive. In order to be competitive with Tier 3 spells' damage you generally had to have the higher end summons - the ones you don't get normally progressing through the game.

Summons in Tactics were absolutely deadly. Perhaps not the MOST deadly (calculators are just flat-out broken), but you definitely don't want to get caught in a Titan during the game's progression. The positioning requirements and vulnerability of the summoner was primarily what made summoners weak, not the summons themselves.

(This has absolutely nothing to do with my issue with the theme, just something I felt needed clarifying.)

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Um...I think Holy.

I think I used Holy like, all the time, cause its always been the best thing ever.

EDIT: ps a lot of the summoners had white mage backgrounds too.

Would be neat to steal some white mage abilities (though I guess with Physick and stuff we're kinda stealing).

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Only Eiko and Yuna got Holy and that wasn't until they'd fully progressed through their levels/grid - roughly 90% of the normal game.

Not to say it wasn't good - once they got it it pretty much outshone everything they had. But there was barely any of their games left at that point, unless you include optional content.

Even then Madeen was almost as powerful, while Magus Sisters just...

Jesus, Magus Sisters and Anima, what a joke the normal storyline progression becomes with either of them.

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Originally Posted by Ghalith

Something I haven't seen on the forums but thought about for summoner was making Enkindle more usable/viable, possibly at the cost of Fester. This would not only eliminate the WoW Affliction Warlock-vibe a lot of people (including myself) get from the class, and put more emphasis on the pet. This would be a very simple mechanic to alter and I feel like it would make a world of difference in making one feel like a Summoner.

EDIT: Not to imply Enkindle should do more damage necessarily, but reducing the recast time, or maybe making it an Aetherflow ability instead.

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I think this would be a fantastic step in the right direction. Shift numbers around so it doesn't wind up being a DPS buff or nerf, I'm sure that's doable.

I can say I'd feel a LOT more like a summoner then, that's for sure.

Still miss Hellfire. D:

From skimming through most of these post (not a SMN myself) But I have noticed that PLD and BRD are just glorified Gladiators and Archers.... The real problem is the job system itself. The whole system was poorly designed. There are no real distinctions between the classes and jobs at all. You get 5 new skills and some AF armor. Whoopie. It seems they followed the motto if it ain't broke fix it. The job system in FFXI was not that broken... Leveling sucked for sure but the job system was IMO very good. Why change it for the worse...