The Reasoning behind The Sundering? (*6.0 Endwalker Spoilers*)

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

See I agree with most of this post, the issue however, as it inevitably was going to be, is who you think is doing the gaslighting or insulting. I know what my experience in the months that we’ve been having this discussion has been, but I imagine no few would disagree with where I find fault.

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That, unfortunately, comes down to perception a lot of the time. There are of course plenty of things you can say to someone that are blatant attempts at gaslighting, overtly offensive, etc. (some of which have definitely been said by people on both sides of the issue, or literally any issue on the forums it seems like, no denying that), but sometimes you also get crossed wires due to how poorly written text on a screen conveys intent. There have unfortunately definitely been some posters that made their intent very... ahem.. clear.

The aforementioned crossed wires come into play with subjects like the one I posed a while back, which was whether or not Venat is guilty of omnicide. It is my personal position that who I am as an individual - my mind, my inner being - are the entirety of my existence. If these are removed, I am in fact dead. Whether or not the flesh and whatever supernatural ephemera that comprised my being are used to create a new life is irrelevant; I, as an entity, have ceased to be. Thus it is my perspective she in fact did something truly awful, albeit for reasons she believed were right. From my perspective, I don't even remotely understand how this thought process could be considered offensive or gaslighty, but I have received responses informing me that it very much is. This, again from my perspective, would in fact constitute gaslighting on the grounds that I've got people insinuating some rather unkind things based on an opinion I hold that was delivered without ill intent utilizing a word in the dictionary correctly. I am unbothered by their words, admittedly, but it does come off as trying to convince someone something they've done or said is (morally) wrong when it probably isn't.

Intent matters, but it doesn't always translate well.

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Originally Posted by redheadturk

I point out though that all of the Unsundered ancients are quite likely to return with memories intact due to them being aetherically dense enough for the lifestream not to strip their memories and consciousness, so "continguous consciousness" is likely to remain upon reincarnation. Hythlodaeus and Emet Selch are clear proof of the fact that the Unsundered retain consciousness and coherence within the Lifestream.

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They hadn't gone through the lifestream, so much as bobbed about on its surface watching what was going on. I suspect you've got to sink to the bottom, as it were, to get reincarnated.

Honestly, one fault I do have with Endwalker is that it showed too much of the afterlife. Seems to me that the afterlife is basically chilling with your mates, with all your memories restored, watching the goings on of the material plane like it's a movie you all watch together. Actually being alive is something you only do if you fancy it, as a bit of a change of pace.

The afterlife certainly was a bit of a letdown. Leaving us ignorant of its inner workings would probably have been best. Or if not that, having it work more like FFVII's lifestream wherein, while you aren't necessarily broken down immediately if you fight it, integral parts of who you are are rapidly stripped away as your essence is reabsorbed by the whole. We won't know if the Case of the Lifestream shorts included with Advent Children Complete are still canon in the new timeline for quite some time, but what they showed us of the lifestream was very different (despite also being quite similar) to what we saw in FFXIV.

It's odd that so many are of the perspective that we have to come to some kind of universal consensus for the discussion to be tabled as a good one. That's literally never going to happen. The discussions of things like the Sundering go on at length, even in circles, because different people have different insights into it at a given time. If someone finds this to be a tired topic, there is quite literally nothing forcing you to participate in it. As for the subject of 'derailing other threads' this is one about the Sundering, hence why it's gone on so long. As someone who has participated in these discussions, I have not seen it much of anywhere where these events and characters were not related.

This event and the characters surrounding it are some of the most important to the world's lore, as well as the game's writing right now. There's no need to police others discussion for something you do not have to contribute to or even see. I for one will discuss this until I'm blue in the face because it is fun and enlightening to see the thoughts of so many.

Of course the insults could certainly be dialed back.

Considering that even strong-willed sundered folk are able to persist to some extent in the Lifestream, it's safe to assume the whole cleansing process takes a while.

Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus likely persisted as they did simply because they didn't want to fade into oblivion before bearing witness to the fate of the star, though being Ancients also probably helped.

That just makes me more concerned about what's going to happen with all those Ancients who weren't prepared to accept their ends, though...

It does seem like people can make a conscious choice to resist dissolution, but this also raises a number questions. I mean, look at the bosses we encountered down there. Fandaniel aside, the bosses in that place were all people shown to be fairly weak-willed. Despite this, they persisted. Could sheer spite be the root cause?

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

The afterlife certainly was a bit of a letdown. Leaving us ignorant of its inner workings would probably have been best. Or if not that, having it work more like FFVII's lifestream wherein, while you aren't necessarily broken down immediately if you fight it, integral parts of who you are are rapidly stripped away as your essence is reabsorbed by the whole. We won't know if the Case of the Lifestream shorts included with Advent Children Complete are still canon in the new timeline for quite some time, but what they showed us of the lifestream was very different (despite also being quite similar) to what we saw in FFXIV.

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Well, the disolving and reforming of a soul takes a lot of time if we go by the one example we have: Loghrif's soul took 80 years to be disolved into the lifestream, reforged and then be born into a different body. If that's roughly how long any reincarnation process takes no wonder the comparatively recently deceased can manifest and even then they aren't quite themselves.

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Originally Posted by Lurina

Yoshi-P has spoken about how the writing team reads even the English feedback here in the past and that said feedback does influence their choices, so in book, it's good for these threads to stay active and create a better shot at them actually seeing it.

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I only ever see Yoshi-P mention Twitter, Reddit, and streamers for feedback, arguably the worst sources for anything that's not glowing praise (especially the latter since that's their job). I thought it was odd they wouldn't read their own forums, especially since you have to have an account to post here. It's good to see supposedly they do.

My main issue is the portrayal of Venat. It's not that they necessarily had to rewrite events as they unfolded, just don't have a character guilty of the same (or worse) atrocities as the antagonists be treated like a protagonist. It was bizarre and unsettling. Had the WoL approached it as, "I don't agree with what you did, but you've left me no choice" I still wouldn't have liked it, but I would've been a lot less angry about my character being forced to treat her positively while being gaslit that she was a good person. You can't just say she's morally grey because she has 1-2 lines of dialog where she admits what she did was cruel (no regrets though, I notice) while everyone else is like, "Nah, you're good, girl!"

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

On a side note, regarding this anyhow, i think the fact they needed to answer so many vital story questions in a QnA is...a good example of some of the things that this expansion missed the mark on. A lot of the story was very unclear considering how much it left many people confused about very important aspects of the story that shouldve had more emphasis.

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Apparently Ishikawa was working on the script until the last minute and didn't have the luxury of fine tuning story elements, so maybe that's part of the reason why.

Not so much here, but I've found the FFXIV community to be toxic AF when it comes to criticism of the game. Reddit aggressively downvotes anything negative to the extent that critical discussion of the game is actively deterred. I've had multiple people PM me who have told me they don't feel comfortable expressing their views, but that they share my feelings and needed to vent to someone about it. There's another forum I've frequented for years and for the first time I had to contact a moderator about harassment because I was being repeatedly personally attacked for expressing my dislike for Venat and the EW storyline surrounding her. I've heard the Discords aren't any better and I won't touch Twitter. I'm used to toxicity and trolls, I played WoW for 16 years, FFXIV is a whole other level for having such a "nice" community.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

The afterlife certainly was a bit of a letdown. Leaving us ignorant of its inner workings would probably have been best. Or if not that, having it work more like FFVII's lifestream wherein, while you aren't necessarily broken down immediately if you fight it, integral parts of who you are are rapidly stripped away as your essence is reabsorbed by the whole. We won't know if the Case of the Lifestream shorts included with Advent Children Complete are still canon in the new timeline for quite some time, but what they showed us of the lifestream was very different (despite also being quite similar) to what we saw in FFXIV.

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i honestly hope myths of eorzea reveals something else besides the soul destruction thing. but that might be wishful thinking...... im starting to sound like a broken record lol.

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Originally Posted by sidurgu-12

i honestly hope myths of eorzea reveals something else besides the soul destruction thing. but that might be wishful thinking...... im starting to sound like a broken record lol.

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I wouldn't worry about it too much atm.