Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"

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Originally Posted by Gallus

I'm talking more specifically in the context of a random dungeon with random people. In the context of a PF with certain requirements, you are on your complete right to kick someone if you think they are not pulling their weight. I still think you can do it politely though.

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And my previous message still applies even in df roulettes. If you’re incapable of playing/healing properly, you should get replaced by someone who can. It’s usually easy to see how someone died, that being to mechanics, ohko/falling off, or just lack of healing

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Go ahead, call someone bad in a dungeon right after you wipe in a boss, and when you notice they don't take it very well, tell them you are helping them because you are giving them neutral assessment and thus helping them improve. I'm confident it'll work out.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Ah - I see our fundamental misunderstanding here. You assume I (or others) would care about hurting an oversensitive person's feelings with a harmless comment when they make a mistake.

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Sorry, but I don't care that you're on a crusade for cookie points.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Go ahead, call someone bad in a dungeon right after you wipe in a boss, and when you notice they don't take it very well, tell them you are helping them because you are giving them neutral assessment and thus helping them improve. I'm confident it'll work out.

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Telling someone he/she is bad = harassment
Giving friendly advice if they do something wrong = harassment
Saying nothing = you are an a..hole because you refuse to help

See a patern there?

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Ah - I see our fundamental misunderstanding here. You assume I (or others) would care about hurting an oversensitive person's feelings with a harmless comment when they make a mistake. I can't speak for everyone else but I don't feel bad when this happens personally, if someone is bothered by 'heals?' or any other completely harmless question I can't be bothered to cater to them.

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If you approach someone with a harmless comment at the right time, there shouldn't be a problem about it. If there is, you can either make a big deal out of it or stay calm and behave like a mature person. Under no circumstances you call someone bad, and if some people go as far as to claim that this situation happens often, I've already said I have very good reasons (backed up by a lot of experience) to think that the problem isn't the other's side oversensitivity.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Go ahead, call someone bad in a dungeon right after you wipe in a boss, and when you notice they don't take it very well, tell them you are helping them because you are giving them neutral assessment and thus helping them improve. I'm confident it'll work out.

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Why should i care if the (bad) player doesn't take it well.
If the (bad) player doesn't want to be called out he should play on an acceptable standard for his level and content.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

I've got called out once in a dungeon by a tank who died i just answered: "If i have to use benediction and tetra directly after that and you still die in an instant, you should maybe start using cd's or i'll start to use cure 1 only." He never complained again after that.

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This is beautiful :D

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Originally Posted by Penthea

This is beautiful :D

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This is just one of these moments where i can't stop myself from writing something when people piss me off. Most of the time only my friends hear me on discord when stuff like that happens.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

If you approach someone with a harmless comment at the right time, there shouldn't be a problem about it. If there is, you can either make a big deal out of it or stay calm and behave like a mature person. Under no circumstances you call someone bad, and if some people go as far as to claim that this situation happens often, I've already said I have very good reasons (backed up by a lot of experience) to think that the problem isn't the other's side oversensitivity.

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Except people already reiterated that yes, it should be done in a polite calm way even before your input on this topic. You're not reaching any new conclusion.
The difference is: calling someone bad in the process is neither harassment nor an insult nor an offence.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Go ahead, call someone bad in a dungeon right after you wipe in a boss, and when you notice they don't take it very well, tell them you are helping them because you are giving them neutral assessment and thus helping them improve. I'm confident it'll work out.

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Honestly, it sounds like to me that you would rather people use the words “poor” or “poorly” instead of “bad”, but the connotation in terms of performance assessment is still the same. And, no, it’s not an insult nor harassment to tell someone that their performance is “poor” (bad).

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Originally Posted by Gallus

It was only a very specific poster that did that, not people in general. There's nothing to debunk because there's no way you could ever justify calling someone bad in the context of an online game. From friendly advice to accurate assessments, you can disguise bad mouthing behind as many terms as you want. No real company is ever going to acknowledge your cause.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Go ahead, call someone bad in a dungeon right after you wipe in a boss, and when you notice they don't take it very well, tell them you are helping them because you are giving them neutral assessment and thus helping them improve. I'm confident it'll work out.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

That doesn't answer their prompt for you.

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Example: This healer stands still using no abilities for 70% of the dungeon and only uses one spell (Cure 2) They are bad at healing.

Explain how that is an incorrect assessment or somehow harassment if I give advice on how to play better. Example: Please cast something between heals, you have some dps abilities such as stone and aero that can help the run go smoother.

Please answer the bold prompt. Please explain the answer. Your previous response does not allow me to understand your point of view.

I am simply asking how the definition of "Bad" is incorrect according to you, why you believe it to be so, and what agrees with you in defining that word differently.

I am also interested in how you perceive the example of "harassment" used above. Was I harassing that person by making the statement "Please cast something between heals, you have some dps abilities such as stone and aero that can help the run go smoother."? Or should that be taken (as it was intended) as neutral advice given because I clearly noticed someone was performing in a way that was not at an acceptable standard? You may assume in this instance that I make the statement once and then leave them to their own devices. In my mind this causes the above incident to not qualify as harassment, as I am not personally attacking the player or annoying them with with unwanted contact later on.

Is it wrong for me to offer advice such as this, as the person receiving it may be able to infer that they are playing in a way that is objectively "bad"?