Character Creation Has A Race Problem

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Originally Posted by Joven

Well, here this is again. And again I'll point out that works of fiction don't have to represent anybody. The only well rounded and enjoyable gaming experience they HAVE to offer is to make the game playable through gameplay and mechanics. So I'll ask this: why do people feel like fictional characters have to represent them? How does a character not sharing superficial traits like skin color or gender keep you from enjoying a game? Is skin color the only thing you care about in a person?

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I don’t see it as an end all be all as much as a nice touch. When I was a kid playing Pokémon I imagined that my trainer looked like me. After a few games they let me play a female trainer. The more recent games now let me pick a skin tone close to my own. Neither of these were mandatory changes I needed, but they improved the overall experience for me.

I think people get too hung up on buzzwords instead of seeing more options for customization.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

They do if they want to do well in this day and age, and want to expand and keep their customer base. It is in their interests to do so. What do you think would have happened if FFXIV had kept Eternal Bonding opposite-sex only? Why do you think they gave in to the bunny suit gender lock backlash?

You truly think people don't look to make approximations of themselves? That's all I've ever known people do with human races.

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Simply because they CHOSE to add those features doesn't mean the HAD to. I'll bet anything that if they had kept Eternal Bonding opposite sex only they wouldn't have suffered too greatly. The amount of people who would've dropped their subs because of it would have been largely insignificant.

But why would you want to create yourself in a game? I thought video games were supposed to be an escape from the real world into the life of someone else if even for a few hours at a time?

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

They do if they want to do well in this day and age, and want to expand and keep their customer base. It is in their interests to do so. What do you think would have happened if FFXIV had kept Eternal Bonding opposite-sex only? Why do you think they gave in to the bunny suit gender lock backlash?

You truly think people don't look to make approximations of themselves? That's all I've ever known people do with human races.



Maybe because... that's the topic at hand?

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I already said it is properly because it was the topic at hand, but I also do find it extremely unlikely you question representation for all groups across the board in all forms of media you consume. In short I still stand by my claim you are looking for something to complain about. It is a game, not a political statement.

Overall if you are down for more customization options I am all for it. Personally I would like a bulge, hair, butt, and bust sliders.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

No, I just don't waste my time with people who don't have the slightest interest in any sort of genuine exchange and are clearly out to pick a fight with me. The grudge you hold would make any discussion pointless.

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How am I out to pick a fight with you by disagreeing that this game is discriminatory? Can you really not handle counter opinions that you would claim I am just "picking a fight" with you over it?

Also I have no grudge against you, that is just what you believe.

But, I guess you really have nothing to respond with except incorrect assumptions. /shrug

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Originally Posted by Rokke

I don’t see it as an end all be all as much as a nice touch. When I was a kid playing Pokémon I imagined that my trainer looked like me. After a few games they let me play a female trainer. The more recent games now let me pick a skin tone close to my own. Neither of these were mandatory changes I needed, but they improved the overall experience for me.

I think people get too hung up on buzzwords instead of seeing more options for customization.

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I guess I'm the Odd Man Out since I don't feel the need to see myself in a game. If I have the option then I usually purposefully choose characters that are different from me. I'm me 99.95% of the day, in that other 0.05% I don't want to have to think about anything related to being me and lose myself in someone else's story.

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Originally Posted by Joven

But why would you want to create yourself in a game? I thought video games were supposed to be an escape from the real world into the life of someone else if even for a few hours at a time?

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With that type of thinking, having human characters in the first place should be a big no-no. Maybe the next game will let us play as a hot-pink newt roaming the lands to ensure our character is nothing like the real us. :X

Obviously that's taking that thinking waaay further than probably intended, but yeah. We all enjoy things in our own way. We all have our own preferences, it's one of those pesky things about being human ;) There is nothing wrong with wanting to put a bit of yourself into a character, just like there is nothing wrong with wanting to make the spiffiest (non-you) character that you can.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

No, it isn't. People have been arguing against the inclusion of IRL in FF, and they're directly named or referenced IRL religions with no background or lore explanation inserted into the game. The whole concept of heaven and hell, black vs white, halos and so on, is an entirely IRL (Christian) concept that has no place in the game.

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Saying that glamour represent religions is still a massive reach.

FFXIV’s hell is a seven-layered hell, as is its heaven, but that doens’t make them the equivalents of Christianity’s Heaven and Hell as denoted by the Bible. The presence of an afterlife isn’t exclusive to Christianity either. Same thing with gods or angels or devils/demons, which are present in a myriad of cultures and religions. They aren’t Christian-exclusive.

Christianity also doesn’t have a “black versus white”/“light versus dark” concept, or a strict ownership on a “good versus evil” concept. “Halos” are present only in a single glamour...which isn’t even representative of the way most Christian art depicts halos. Halos also aren’t exclusively in Christianity (e.g., Buddha is sometimes depicted with a halo about him; Egyptian gods are sometimes depicted with halos above them).

There’s really no way around this reach.

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Originally Posted by Awha

I already said it is properly because it was the topic at hand, but I also do find it extremely unlikely you question representation for all groups across the board in all forms of media you consume.

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Well, given that I'm female, I actually do because the bias is often forced into my face on a daily basis. Believe me, it's not something I enjoy seeing.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Also I have no grudge against you, that is just what you believe.

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Whatever you say.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

blah blah muh inclusion blah.

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I was recently comforted by a bunch of people confirming the radical... for the sake of not getting reported let's call it "not logic" present in your posts. Rather than legitimize them with actual conversation I have just one question...

Anita Sarkeesian... Is that you? :thinking:

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Originally Posted by Rokke

I don’t see it as an end all be all as much as a nice touch. When I was a kid playing Pokémon I imagined that my trainer looked like me. After a few games they let me play a female trainer. The more recent games now let me pick a skin tone close to my own. Neither of these were mandatory changes I needed, but they improved the overall experience for me.

I think people get too hung up on buzzwords instead of seeing more options for customization.

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Super relatable - the thing is there is almost no opposition to increases in character customization. I think I may have the most conservative opinion on it and even my own qualifiers are just "don't interrupt other content being released and don't break with lore" which seems reasonable enough. The pushback is to the stupid SJW crap.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

??

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You have misunderstood me. I'm not saying FFXIV's afterlife has borrowed from Christianity, but in fact the opposite. The game is referencing it without any context. It's IRL iconography in-game which supposedly has "no place" there. You're also glossing over the direct mention of Taoism.

The halo depicted is in line with the Western image of angels derived from Christianity. The one Buddha is often depicted with is quite different.