What is wrong with this community?

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Originally Posted by Kirhs

It's easier to be negative than to contribute constructively.

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How about no contribution whatsoever, then? That's even easier than being negative.

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Originally Posted by NoctisCaelus

Is this a trend? You meet a few bad eggs, and you think the whole community is like that.

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This happens 3/4 times in a random DF run.

Don't know what rock you're hiding under, but this is what's happening.

The OP is correct.

Anyone who can actually muster up an excuse for being exclusively negative on the internet is merely hiding behind a mental wall of insecurity and inability to socialize with other human beings. It's easier to break the law, but it's legal to not do it. That isn't logic to follow.

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Originally Posted by AncientCetra

Just my two cents, but I don't believe a game molds the community.

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I disagree. Most MMOs now indirectly encourage bad behavior by making the content so accessible that there are little to no consequences for being a jerk. Back in EQ1 there were certainly a-holes but there was a serious price to pay if you got a bad reputation on your character. Train people, kill steal, be a loot-whore, act like a d-bag and your reputation would quickly be known across the server and prevent you from getting into any decent guild or finding groups which was a huge deal. Now not so much.

I know MMOs have changed significantly since then but the environment in that game most certainly molded the community and it's one of the things that made EQ great. It's a shame no developers have figured out a way to make current MMOs less "hardcore" while still maintaining that same sense of community.

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Originally Posted by Raxion

How about no contribution whatsoever, then? That's even easier than being negative.

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You know whats even easier? Reading what someone has previously posted in the thread before putting your own foot in your mouth in your haste to get off a quick one liner.

EDIT.

And you know what you're a perfect example of why the duty finder is so toxic. It starts with one little snippy thoughtless remark at someone and then the snowball starts. Though being a GLD class certainly could explain some of it.

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Originally Posted by EQBallzz

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AncientCetra has it right.

It doesn't matter what game you play, industry you work in or hobby you partake, the world is full of disingenuous people. Those people play video games too.

Individual perception (especially in an anonymous situation) is often more negative than seen in reality. There are the older generations of gamers, or the "well back in my day" folks and the newer generations since them. There is no level of respect between gamers now because everyone feels they are entitled to a personal experience and you are ruining it for them. This builds up over time and with so many people involved in a single community, we are bound to see tempers flare. There is no real repercussion to their behavior like there would be in life where everyone just wants to "fit in."

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Originally Posted by Raxion

Because they're a decent human being?

Do you go around wasting random people's time and trashing talking the hell out of them for nothing, in your day-to-day life? Common courtesy doesn't stop at the border of your keyboard. People seem to forget that there's actual people behind the character.

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It's comments like that that seriously restore my faith in human beings. Thanks! I mean it. :D

What community?

What's wrong is, people sit in que, sometimes for 20-30 minutes +, then they run into players who either, afk, aren't geared at all (they did fates for 30 levels and que in with level 5 gear), or they just don't have any experience playing their role.

Just 5 minutes ago, I que'd into stone vigil as whm. Tank pulls the first pull (if you're familiar with the place, the first pull has like, 5 mobs). I cast Cure 1 on him about 3 seconds after he pulls, he doesn't flash. 3 enemies come for me, takes about 45 seconds but then, I die.

Yep, I left, they can find someone else to help them.

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Originally Posted by Kirhs

You know whats even easier? Reading what someone has previously posted in the thread before putting your own foot in your mouth in your haste to get off a quick one liner.

EDIT.

And you know what you're a perfect example of why the duty finder is so toxic. It starts with one little snippy thoughtless remark at someone and then the snowball starts. Though being a GLD class certainly could explain some of it.

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Well I'm sorry if you took my statement as some sort of personal attack, but it wasn't. I made a counter-statement to yours, nothing more.

Is it not factual that it's easier to contribute nothing, rather than negativity? You definitely interpreted my statement incorrectly.

Every MMO I play now I expect rude and toxic behavior. It's unfortunate that the internet as a medium also breeds that of behavior because of it's ability to protect the user's anonymity. I suppose it's just the way some folks take advantage.

But I don't mind the "community" so much because I just ignore the idiots. There are people that exist that don't lose themselves to the power of stupidity over a keyboard and I think that the silent majority of people are normal and the ones that act stupid instantly jade your perceptions because that's all you see. I've met plenty of decent people but they're usually random across groups.

Keep playing, there are plenty of good people around--just don't expect them to drop in your lap though. If you don't play with friends you can trust finding a core group of people takes effort. I wouldn't jump in a FC or linkshell and expect to become best friends overnight--it could happen but in general trust is built not given. Good luck.

In my experiences, specifically endgame, this community is vile. You better know each instance inside and out before your first run because if you dare make a mistake on someone else's 100th ak run there's going to be hell to pay. Don't expect any explanations; there will be none. This is the reason I will no longer continue playing the game.

I've been pugging CM every run since I hit 50. I haven't met a single group of ragers yet, save one tank in my first run because I wasn't skipping cutscenes (when no one asked me to, and half the group said it was fine if I did). Since then, most of my tanks and groups have been great.

it's just the internet community in america in general

people are just getting progressively more vile and nasty by the day.
back in the everquest and ffxi days you could screw up encounters that actually cost a lot of resources to start and people would be patient and teach you until you got it
even in the early days of WoW you could make groups of total strangers and get stuff done

nowadays you have stuff like the guy in tera that just powers to max level in a couple days then spends the next month in the lowest level zone he can kill people in one shotting and harassing people with the intention of trying to make them quit the game and can't even understand how that might be seen as poor behavior
or in ffxiv you need to know every encounter before you even try it for the first time or you get blacklisted by entire free companies for not doing it perfectly

every safe zone is littered with people in crafting pose because logging in is too much to ask for. Funny thing is if we didn't have such a huge population of people doing that we would have no queue instead of an extremely short queue

if you actually do fates with the intention of completing them you get blacklisted by the giant hordes of people trying to exploit the quick spawning mobs for fast exp

and everyone sings the "leave me alone it doesn't effect you" song but once you do something they don't like they completely 180 on that stance

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Originally Posted by Vyserion

I've been pugging CM every run since I hit 50. I haven't met a single group of ragers yet, save one tank in my first run because I wasn't skipping cutscenes (when no one asked me to, and half the group said it was fine if I did). Since then, most of my tanks and groups have been great.

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Count yourself as one of the luckiest DF users in the game, then.

Thread: What is wrong with this community?

a: there is still free game time left.
once people start having to pay, things will pan out

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Originally Posted by Raxion

Count yourself as one of the luckiest DF users in the game, then.

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I will specify that this is CM, which is likely the easiest 50 dungeon in the game. Pugging Amdapor Keep is a 50/50 shot of breeze or nightmare. I will say that the most frustrating dungeon runs I've experienced stem from overconfident tanks trying to do speed runs they either don't know how to do or aren't geared for. Now that everyone's in farm-mentality, no one wants to explain the basics of fights to newcomers - these things happen in CM and AK because they're farmed so frequently. All i can suggest to most people is to speak up when you're new --- most teams won't mind and will explain what's going on. The worst thing anyone can do is not talk to their team and wait til things go wrong to speak up.

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Originally Posted by Riion

In my experiences, specifically endgame, this community is vile. You better know each instance inside and out before your first run because if you dare make a mistake on someone else's 100th ak run there's going to be hell to pay. Don't expect any explanations; there will be none. This is the reason I will no longer continue playing the game.

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exactly this.
i've tried HM Titan today for the first time (got Garuda/DL and stuff, so people wont bash the gear), and got shit on by some DRG for a mistake of getting aggro from Titan and dying on the first ever try.
i quit and got repeating pms from that same DRG of how "fcking bad" i am and should "go back wow" [sic], which i've never played.
i did run Titan a few times after, did fine, never beat it of course, but first bitter experience kind of ruined this fight for me.

i got that i probably won't be gettin my relic, so spent the tomes on some extra DL accessories.
and will probably go fishing for the rest of the trial. SE doesn't want my money anyway.

while you can go on all day about "bad apples" and "subscriptions will weed them out". fact is fact, people just ruining other people's first experience.
and some people don't have "thicker skin" or FC/LS to fall back on.

Wait until you use Duty Finder to get into some HM Ifrit runs. I'll admit I myself am an asshole SOMETIMES in those runs, but it's not my fault that the DPS are incapable of taking down the nails in time without a BLM or SMN to Meteor them. I ran into a group with 3 Monks and they still didn't even come close to taking down the nails in time (LBing the first and last ones). For healers that go OOM in a short amount of time, tanks that can't reasonably hold threat, or DPS who can't kill worth crap: if you are going to attempt endgame, please do not fate grind to 50 and expect people to carry you because you have no idea how to play your job, but this practically goes for all MMO gamers in general.

P.S. HM Garuda duty finder groups are absolutely the worst. It's always in HM Ifrit or HM Garuda where people have no clue what's new in the fight, have not bothered to look up any guides or videos, and/or don't even state as much before the initial pull and wonder why we wipe.

Anyone that says "Go back to WoW" is a wow player and you can bet a terrible one as well.

This game is far to hard and grindy for the type of people that are nasty and hateful. Nasty and hateful almost always goes along with being bad as well. Over time more people are going to do things server/fc only and that is going to mean all those nasty people that also probably suck will be forced to deal with each other... and quit.

I did the goblin dungeon... breyflox or whatever... my first time I ran out of time because the people in my group where terrible but I never yelled at anyone for it. The second time there I get this Dragoon that keeps pulling and I knew he would be a problem. Sure enough when we get to the chest area the blm who had never been there before walked into an area and spawned mobs ahead of us. Super dragoon then used the next five minutes to rage at the blm before telling him to go back to wow and then dropping group. One chest in a level 30ish instance was enough for that guy to fricken lose it and it was kind of fun to watch just because the Blm didn't even know he was being yelled at.

If you run into good players in duty finder and they are on your server friend them. Bad ones blacklist. It is up to us to keep this community clean and it is still possible even with the WoW derp spreading around. Lotro has a very nice community and it came out after WoW so games can still be good.

"Why hello there young man, I'm your ride back to [insert name here]."
http://puu.sh/4agq0/04283ed698.jpg

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Originally Posted by Raxion

Well I'm sorry if you took my statement as some sort of personal attack, but it wasn't. I made a counter-statement to yours, nothing more.

Is it not factual that it's easier to contribute nothing, rather than negativity? You definitely interpreted my statement incorrectly.

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My bad thanks for that.

Though id argue it is in fact harder for some to contribute nothing then to contribute negatively because it can give a feeling of power and/or pleasure. Some people crave this so you see trolls like that guy who AFKed just inside the boss room locking the rest of the party out. This kind of stuff isn't rational so rational rules don't always apply.

I have also lost some of my enthusiasm for endgame seeing how some of the people treat each other.
Right now the best thing to do is be nice to the random people you meet in DF. you'd be amazed at the world of difference it makes in people to just see nice people are around.

there is zero recourse to blist/ban these kind of people so people just feel they can troll as much as they want when they want and nothing will happen to them. Some like the OP's tank blame others for their mistakes. this has been a huge issue from day one. EVERYONE you cant think of play this game, trolls, bigots, 10 yr olds who think they are better then you we get them all. all you can do if suck it up, or leave and they know THAT is all we can do at this point.

Until SE implements a ban/kick/blist feature for duty finder we are all stuck with these "people"

Didn't run into many bad eggs until recently. Today's example: Queued up for Ifrit Hardmode with 2 buddies from my FC. one of them is a healer and has been running Ifrit for days straight trying to get his weapon to drop with no luck. Well today it dropped. And he still didn't get it. Why? because there was another white mage in the group and he got it instead. Ok that's fine, frustrating but such are mmos.

BUT

The guy's buddies were total pricks. They barely contributed to the fight and got killed frequently (my friend practically was pulling double duty as the healer). And trashed my buddy going "hope you don't get the roll" and "YEAH <insert F-BOMB here> YOU" afterwards.

I mean really? Was completely uncalled for and they were the ones doing so poorly in the raid. And they got rewarded for nothing and gloated about it.
Some people are just cancerous.

I ran CM all morning no problems no wipes no deaths. All were speed runs. Then I got with this group where the SCH was telling everyone how to do CM (nobody was new) and telling me to play SMN a totaly differnt way than I do in CM, things that just take more time and people wiped over and over and 2nd tank left after being blamed for everthing and then after being told I was a shitty dps because I didnt have dots on all the random mobs "they" had spread out in all four cornner of the map I was nice and raised the SCH and left and went on doing speed runs with others.

I really hope people like this leave. You really dont even have to talk during CM, just do it once and go with it.

And also today I saw a shout from someone saying they got kick out of CM for not having dl armor.....really? You can do this naked lol

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Originally Posted by Raxion

Because they're a decent human being?

Do you go around wasting random people's time and trashing talking the hell out of them for nothing, in your day-to-day life? Common courtesy doesn't stop at the border of your keyboard. People seem to forget that there's actual people behind the character.

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Maybe you misunderstood my statement. Of course We/I don't do those things in public.
But we all know this concept doesn't translate to video games. Don't believe me? Spend an hour playing COD. People are downright mean and abusive over the smallest of things.

Again, I blame the cross server system. People will easily tread on someone's feelings as long as they can hide behind a screen, and especially if they can hide on a different server.

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Originally Posted by Vix_Spellweaver

But we all know this concept doesn't translate to video games. Don't believe me? Spend an hour playing COD. People are downright mean and abusive over the smallest of things.

Again, I blame the cross server system. People will easily tread on someone's feelings as long as they can hide behind a screen, and especially if they can hide on a different server.

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If you're going to blame anything, blame the "But it's only a game, it's not real life!" excuses that eventually become accepted "truths" because they're trundled out so often. Every time you say "Well nobody acts like that IRL, but it's OK because it happens all the time in <INSERT ONLINE GAME HERE> you're -

a) Giving these basement dwellers the A-OK to continue (after all, we *expect* them to behave this way - it's a game, not RL!)
b) Making it harder for people who wish to display basic good manners to say anything against them because after all "It's a game! You have to expect this behaviour!" - meaning rude behaviour and crass language (over a flippin' chest/loot/boss, by The Twelve!) is the accepted norm and to behave otherwise, even in a positive manner, is going against the grain.

It's nothing to do with cross server parties, and everything to do with all of us who stay silent in DF when someone's running their mouth off at a newbie for nothing in particular - if we stop accepting that sort of behaviour then it becomes unacceptable.

To use FFXI as an example - that game now isn't showing a close-knit group of friendly gamers all keen to help each other out (outside of the odd personal LS anyway) because the quality of their server's parties depends on it , it's showing niches within cliques within niches where everyone's got to have the best all the time because they're all so afraid of their server rep. It's not open and friendly where everybody knows your name and gives you a friendly /wave, it's insular and exclusionary.

(I'm using your post as a springboard to further discussion by the way, it's not meant to be an "attack" on your text)

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Originally Posted by Methuselah

That was a really great game

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Great game, true. But the online community is terrible. Angry mail if you lose,Angry mail if you win, Angry mail if you leave a lobby (for any reason). A lot of angry e-thugs, I tell you.

Another WK run with DF, another couple of douche sticks talking crap that i do zero dmg all the while the tank can hold zero hate off the healer. The bard dies on the pudding boss and the tank is mad at me cuz we wiped. Then later the bard starts talking crap to me about how much I suck? These kinda people have nothing better to do then to bring you down to their lvl.

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Originally Posted by Nales

Everyone seems to be so uptight on this game, like i understand it gets frustrating sometimes when your having trouble getting through a dungeon etc but why rage and talk trash, if you know what to do give suggestions on how to accomplish these things

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It not about being uptight. I ran 22 CM's today and i would say out of that total i only had 2 that were good and the last was right before the server dropped the first time, think we got through it with the counter on 89. So many people come in there and just dont give a darn what anything thinks, they show their ass and talk trash, go afk, train people, lock people out of boss fights and the list goes on. I think the reason we have this is because of the DF being cross server, there's no way to make these people pay as it would be if it was a server only DF. I love the "I just reported you" stuff people say, reporting doesnt do anything, if all the RMT spammers still here week after week doesn't show you that i dont know what does.


I know the other choice is to get a LS or FC with people but that doesn't always work so your stuck with DF. With the free time over with for a lot it has helped some, i was reading a post today and a guy was talking about how things were good in the DF till about 4 pm his time and then people just started acting like idiots and he suggested that it was because the kiddies had gotten out of school and i think i have to agree, i ran into a lot more around that time also.

While doing Garuda, we wiped when the off tank who was from another server kept tanking Chu and Sup on top of the healers and ranged dps. Explained to her that she has to tank them away from us and she put the blame on us. Didn't really trash talk, but said a lot of stuff that put her in the wrong.

Did Garuda once after that wipe with the strategy we told her and we won, go figure lol. She apologized after. Kill them with kindness. Sometimes that's all you can do, or just ignore them. OR EVEN BETTER. If you are the healer, don't heal them xD <<<< jk jk but I have told people to stop or I wouldn't heal them haha. Oh the perks of being the resident WHM

And this is why we didn't want the WoW kiddies coming over.

Almost makes me miss the days of Chains of Promathia on FFXI, when the game was so brutal it weeded out the trash players with ruthless efficiency. I say almost because for all my fond memories of XI, it is in retrospect a bad game when it comes to its core mechanics and I wouldn't dream of going back to it with how lovely XIV is.

But there needs to be some way of enforcing standards and rooting out all the jerkbags.

They need a vote kick system.

When something goes wrong a lot of players try to help by explaining different strats. Some players blow up on players trying to help.

Castrum runs I have had healers/tanks afk the ENTIRE instance for no reason.

Party wipes for one reason or another sometimes players are like "You guys suck" and afk the instance until someone leaves.

Sadly, this isn't 1.0 community. =/ I don't really want it to be either, but good portion of this community is rude and sour. They can't take advice. They also explode on other players when it is their fault for a wipe in an instance. It isn't just, "oh crap my bad im sorry lets go again." its "YOU NOOB YOU NO HEAL ME WHY I DIE I DONT NEED TO DODGE I TANK."

I think everyone needs to take a happy pill and get some cookies and chill the hell out.

While I do agree there are more then enough.. lesser elements to go around, I do believe the community is what you make of it.
A smile, a polite word and a good additude gets you a long way, even with these lesser elements.
And if everything fails, raise your shoulders and shrug it off, its their loss. Im good.

The community by and large is not like this. At some point and time their behavior catches up with them. Hopefully before there parents swipe for another month ><:

I haven't had a bad group yet, though as a healer I'm not immune to petty vengeance by not healing mean and/or jerk tanks in extreme cases. I'm a decent enough healer to get away with it once in a while, and don't like to start trouble unless someone dishes it first

I have realized that I have met so many uptight people during runs. So many people I have in my parties are rude and impatient; they leave once something goes wrong once or something gets pulled on accident. Especially the high-leveled players...

Hopefully the community will get better. Although I have met some really nice and positive people.

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Originally Posted by AnkoYaoi

I have realized that I have met so many uptight people during runs. So many people I have in my parties are rude and impatient; they leave once something goes wrong once or something gets pulled on accident. Especially the high-leveled players...

Hopefully the community will get better. Although I have met some really nice and positive people.

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It wouldn't be so bad if all people did was leave when things turned sour. That would just be impatience. I could deal with impatience. It's the utter disregard for how terrible they treat other people that sets me off. It's the one that just can't keep their toxic text out of party-chat that are the problem.

If people would just keep quiet when things started going bad, I wouldn't have much to complain about. Didn't their parents teach them to say nothing if they can't say anything nice?

Comes from the man's mouth in game:

"Eorzea, a blighted realm riddled with false gods. Twice now it has eluded the empire's grasp, twisted beyond all reckoning. Rotten nigh to the core. Yet it must be saved."

;)

How about the guys who yelled at me about greeding for a shield...in satasha.....in beta.....that was my first duty finder expierence