Endgame Progression, Elitism and You

Seriously OP,


This is a terrible attitude.....and you are the main reason i detest the minority of this great community that your are portraying, make me feel like a fool for trying and clearing many times with friends other "pug" groups but then now it begins shout in town and at Camp RT for full geared (full DL only), and relic geared only speed runs....

Garuda HM can be passed in AF although the MT should be geared a little higher. Keep in mind Garuda HM was actually a bit more difficult in 1.0 , and people were beating her back the when very few people had stuff like DL, relic, etc. The fight will take longer and go through more phases due to lower DPS, but if people know what they're doing, you can grind it out.

Titan and beyond is definitely a different story though. The heart phase is basically a DPS race so gear is obviously a factor. And *if* you manage to survive the heart phase, you will not survive those continuous tumults in the final phase without adequate gear. The importance of adequate gear becomes even more evident in Coil.


There is a distinction between "elitism" and simply not wanting to have one's time wasted. Elitism the way I see it is when someone is basically playing the game for the main purpose of telling others they suck compared to them. Basically, "elitists" aren't really considering whether or not you are adequately geared for a battle, they are comparing your gear to theirs and looking for any opportunity to criticize your gear and make themselves feel superior. Even if you are adequately geared for a fight, they will still say your gear sucks. For example, people mocking others for wearing AF in a dungeon like AK because they can't speen-run through it - that would be an elitist. You can ignore these ppl - they're just losers in real life who need in-game accomplishments to provide a feeling of worth. Just laugh at them and move along.


What isn't elitism however is when 7 other people are working to beat a boss/dungeon, and *you* are way under-geared compared to the other party members, and they are wiping because of your low DPS or due to you dying on every fight. In this case, it is *you* who are basically being inconsiderate of other people's time because you're basically hoping to be "carried" by the other 7 people.

Also, people simply shouting for a "speed run" or "expeirenced people" is *not* elitism either. They're making it clear ahead of time what their intention is for the party-makeup so you should be considerate of the fact that they have a specific goal and be aware of whether or not you are prepared for such a party. It should be completely understandable that people who have been stuck on something like Titan HM for a 100 wipes would not be looking for a "learning" party at this time. The person who uses Duty Finder thinking every random party will be a "speed run" and calling everybody in there a noob *is* an elitist.

So bottom line, it works both ways. Here is a simple rule of thumb - do not treat other players like NPCs for your personal benefit or amusement. Remember they are real people just like you. If you do not understand this, stick to single player RPGs please.

The person who started this thread can take those bullet points (probably supplied by BlueGartr) and have a seat. Get back to me when you come up with some constructive advice for endgame beginners.

OP makes a very good, detailed, in-depth post on how to gear yourselves up for end-game. -------> Gets crucified for helping.

I don't even know anymore. This is why I premake every group I've ever been in.

*EDIT* ZPanda basically hit everything spot on.

I'm the literal antithesis of an end-game rushing, "elitist" player and I have to say that this is one of the most helpful posts I've read on this forum. The OP doesn't come across as an "Elitist Jerk," (or whatever the fad title is these days) instead he's being patient and helpful for those who can't eat, sleep and breathe the game. Much credit is due for a fantastically helpful post!

Well damn. I beat Titan, Garuda and Ifrit HM's with AF gear... Maybe I was dreaming.

EDIT: ZPanda, that's some real shit. *thumbs up*

Titan hard mode down! Going to make some mods to the guide soon, after I get some sleep.

Seriously more people should be willing to give less geared players a chance.

I'm a tank in mostly ilvl 60 gear; not perfect, no, but enough for Garuda easily and maybe Titan, yes, I think so; if my party is well equipped also.

I'll never find out though, because until I'm in full DL everything, no group will let me try.

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Originally Posted by AnkoYaoi

Well damn. I beat Titan, Garuda and Ifrit HM's with AF gear... Maybe I was dreaming.

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Well damn, I remember the first time I beat Titan HM, one of the healer died at 80% remaining HP (yes.. he got punched off the platform as soon as Titan lands the first time), that person beat Titan while lying down on the floor, AFK, went to kitchen for a tea.

Your point?

Good work.

If I were the healer, unless the undergeared tank is from my FC plus the person is guaranteed to stay in the FC in the future, there is no other circumstance I will take an undergeared tank. Why would I want to cast heal 3 times everytime the tank is hit, when I can heal only 2 times with an averagely geared tank? Whose gonna give me back the extra mana I spent?

It's reality. No one wants to do extra work.

Yes you can beat HM Titan, but sorry they used to beat it even faster and easier. It was you who put extra pressure on the remaining 7 people.

If you are so sure that you, the undergeared one, is actually carrying them back, you can advertise youself saying, "If I don't top the (insert parser name) dps meter, I pay everyone 10k GIL". I'm pretty sure you will get a group very soon. If you are not THAT confident, go gear up and play normally like everyone does.

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Originally Posted by Holyhunter

Garuda really doesn't require more than AF unless you're the main tank.

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And so the tanks have to work harder than everyone else while the DPS fails to kill the feathers.

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Originally Posted by FyeyaHerald

snip

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So, I want to be clear, I looked up your character profile to help you. I also know it can be a little out of date. Here's however why people are unwilling to let you tank some of these battles:

1. Your MRD/WAR is level 50 (good ;) ) ....but, your GLA/PLD is only level 16. This means you are missing a fair amount of 'Tanking Abilities'
2. In addition to this, your PGL/MNK is only level 6. Again, this means you are missing several key tanking skills.
Link: http://www.ffxivinfo.com/job/warrior.php Just so you can see what you are missing.
3. Warriors, especially under-geared/low HP Warriors, with little Cross-class Damage Reduction Skills absorb a Healers MP pool like a sponge. You're quite frankly, much harder to keep alive than even a PLD in similar gear/lack of cross-skills.

Now, you said you have some I60 level gear. That's good. But your bigger issue is you want to Tank on WAR, without the cross-skills you need to effectively do it. You could have full darklight, but without skills like Second Wind, and Awareness, you are making a healers job (and the parties) needlessly difficult-impossible.

I am not trying to be an ass or mean in anyway. The game has been out a month. You shouldn't be ready for all of this yet. Garuda+ Content is really for people who have a Main Job and their Sub-classes leveled fully, with the gil and tomes to invest in upper gear. The Coil is for fully-geared/reliced groups who've exhausted all other content.

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Originally Posted by Xariann

And so the tanks have to work harder than everyone else while the DPS fails to kill the feathers.

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Actually, no, they just have to be smart and attack them. She is still correct. regardless of if you accept it or not, DPS don't need more then AF. For either HM primals. Maybe if you are under skilled and you feel you need the best possible gear to make up for your lack of. then i can see why you would need more then AF i guess.

Am I the only one here who feels bad about going somewhere while still undergeared and putting strain on the rest of my party?

The OP at least spent a good amount of time trying to show what to do once you hit 50. I have people, both friends and in FC, who tell me that I need to gear up for stuff whenever I ask about the requirements of a new dungeon I don't know about (well I know them now, but that was when I had just hit 50). Then they will tell me WHERE to go to get the gear. And some would come with me to help me get it. What is wrong with that?

Why would I want to force them to come and surely wipe because of me being the weak link in the chain? It's very different from saying, "OK FC, let's go do this encounter nobody here ever did to see how it's like." What I see instead is people asking to be carried. And this is coming from someone who DOESN'T have the gear to do Titan HM, not from someone who already has it and doesn't want "lowly newbies" to join her.

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Originally Posted by Volcano

Actually, no, they just have to be smart and attack them. She is still correct. regardless of if you accept it or not, DPS don't need more then AF. For either HM primals. Maybe if you are under skilled and you feel you need the best possible gear to make up for your lack of. then i can see why you would need more then AF i guess.

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I love how people automatically assume that people suck and attack someone personally to make their point. Actually, I am not a DPS. And I have seen runs fail because DPS didn't kill the feathers in the NORMAL Garuda, and been told how that is a problem in Garuda HM as well.

So maybe those DPS were unskilled, or maybe people are lazy and want to do stuff without spending a little more time so they can DO a little more than just going with the bare minimum gear and strain the rest? I am sure the better geared players who are making up for the "very skilled players" with little gear appreciate this.

And before you say anything, yes you can have players with good gear who suck. You can't measure player skill beforehand but you can measure gear, unless of course you know the people you are doing the runs with, but this was never a discussion about individual skill.

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I want to make sure I go above and beyond what a party expects from me, I don't want to bring the bare minimum. It's a matter of personal pride.