The hell was square thinking with mining/botanist.

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Originally Posted by Maku

I have never fished yet. Just how much difference in EXP are we talking about?

I might not like that they are doing this but I hardly see a point in leveling them till the hot fix boost.

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Just going by fishing levequests, it seems like it's around a 25% increase.

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Originally Posted by NICKYMON

Increasing the EXP rate for DoL!? How about keeping it where it is and DECREASING the speed for DoH. People are powerleveling through DoH by means of others giving them HQ mats and now they are demanding faster 50s on a mild grind (it's really not that bad on DoL).

Anything crafted and gathered is going to be of little value if the market continues to be over-saturated. If everyone can just solo crafting and gathering quickly and with ease, it really puts others out of work. Where are you going with non-battle jobs? Are they meant to be for the player to supply themselves only or to enhance the market flow?

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Sounds to me like you probably did the same and now you want everyone to level up slower so they can't catch up with you (and your crafting linkshell) as easily.

Crafting leves are the only leves that are worth it in the game, sure, let's nerf them. Wait no, actually let's not.

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Originally Posted by NICKYMON

Increasing the EXP rate for DoL!? How about keeping it where it is and DECREASING the speed for DoH. People are powerleveling through DoH by means of others giving them HQ mats and now they are demanding faster 50s on a mild grind (it's really not that bad on DoL).

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I have to somewhat agree. I don't think DoH should be as slow/tedious as DoL but it definitely needs to be toned down. With an alright amount of gil (some DoH require less) and knowledge of DoH you can do 1-50 in a day with those repeatable crafting leves. While this is nice and makes leveling easy, it doesn't feel like you worked hard for it. It feels a lot like buying your way to 50 (RMT anyone?). I feel like a speed somewhere between the two professions would be acceptable. Increase DoL exp rate, reduce DoH and equal amount. That's my two cents.

My personal thought on this is that DoH can level really quick but everyone does act like you can do levequest with HQ synths all day long. Cause I can't do that. I don't have enough gil to buy those HQ materials and not everything can be gathered either. The question is what SE thinks about the right amount of xp a class should get. And in case of Mining/Botany its definatly too slow. Someone said that leveling DoM/DoW is even slower but that's not true. Compared to miners/botanists you can spam fates, do story quests and leeves all day long.

And another thing is that you shouldn't think in short terms. SE will increase the level cap some day and at this rate it would be horrible to level miner/botanist to something like level 75 and one million xp per level. We're not even close to the maximum level this game is going to have now.

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Originally Posted by Lyein

We had a minigame/ QTE in 1.0. People complained and they took it out. Now you just... select your item.

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V1's was super slow, it would take 5 minutes to mine one node, and everything you got was RNG. All V2 needs to "fix" this is to shuffle the positions into quantities (eg if you have a higher rank DoL you either get 1xitem at 100% or 2xitem at 60% or something)

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Instead of making Miner and Botanist even more pointless by making it super easy to level you guys should have focused more on making crafting and gathering classes worth a damn at endgame instead of borderline useless.

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I'll agree that crafting seems to be completely pointless since everyone can just buy non-HQ gear from NPC's. How about making the NPC's actually "buy" the items from retainers for the best price passed along to the player when an item is bought from a NPC?

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

Greetings,

The development team is aware that the experience points awarded to botanists and miners is somewhat lower than what is awarded to fishers. As such, during the Hot Fix that will take place next week, we will be increasing the experience earned gained by these two classes.

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This is a good change, but I think it's just a band-aid fix for what are probably the worst designed classes in the game right now. There's no cross-class synergy to be found between the three Gathering classes (Fisher in particular is the worst, having zero cross-class skills) and the supply chain is completely messed up, with an over abundance of materials flooding the markets at every tier, though that's more a symptom of the low exp gains that anything else. I really hope the design team has plans to update the gathering classes to be more in tune with the crafting and battle classes as far as synergy goes.

Well, I'm sure you all are happy that you got your way about the EXP being too low with your grade school whining, even though you can easily get 200-300k/hour off of nodes very easily. I see very soon people crying about why everything on the AH from gathering is only worth 1-2 gil very soon, as everyone and their mother with have all the gathering crafts at 50 within a month. Sits back and watches the retardism. /popcorn.

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Originally Posted by Dorin

Sounds to me like you probably did the same and now you want everyone to level up slower so they can't catch up with you.

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I did no such thing, tyvm. I'm a main crafter and gatherer since before ARR, and I know much of this because people keep asking me to make them finshed gear at HQ to "PL" their crafts...

But we're not talking about me here, we're talking about classes that are losing legitimacy because of their ease and I just want to know if SE is turning DoH/L into a soloable thing for everyone to just do for the individual's own progress or will it be something that will actually be considered a profession again where others can rely on you (repairs, mats, finished gear, melding).

Also, the market on my server is quite backwards and materials are often worth way more than finished gear. Something has to change. Whatever happens, I'll be happy to see a balance between gathering and crafting to alleviate these price gaps.

It's not the time it takes to level that bothers me and many others. Its just the tedium. Fixing _that_ however takes much more work than just pushing some numbers higher. The devs have way too much work on their hands as it is to work in DoL quest-lines or dungeons or FATEs or anything from scratch to address this problem. Boosting the XP is a band-aid, but we can't expect more than a band-aid with so many other things needing addressing.

Honestly... I'd be fine with 40-50 taking twice as long (it really does go fast for an MMO) if it wasn't just 'run node-to-node and watch TV'. I couldn't play my combat classes if leveling up meant 6 leves in an hour and 8 more hours grinding mobs. I've played that game before, it took one day to drop the game once I had to grind the next two levels out to reach the next quest-line.

This certainly isn't the answer; but I'm very happy that they're at least addressing it as much as they can at the moment.

Unspoiled nodes arent affected by others gathering at them they are if you click it and close it however. Also most stay up for 3-4 in game hours so if you get to one and time is up you miss out. So yeah doesnt matter how many 50s are gathering the unspoiled nodes just familiarize yourself with what spawns at what time and where and you will be golden.

Fisher does not need to be changed. Yoshida has stated several times that it was designed with stress-relief in mind; it's meant to be a hobby class. There are a literal handful of synths where fishing is somewhat profitable, but as a whole, it isn't by design. We have to pay for repairs and equipment too, and everyone forgets about bait. It's required and most of the time, it costs more than the fish it yields sell for at NPCs.

The other two gather classes are primarily aimed at facilitating their respective crafting classes. Where this is true to some degree with fisher and alchemist, there are ways around it and you're not backed into a corner like you are with the electrum, wool or cobalt progression in other crafts.

Honestly, if I was to request any change at all to MIN and BTN, it'd be to give us back the random shard reward each time we gather. Manually mining shards and crystals in ARR is just painful (and a huge earner for RMT).

Huh, I have only done mining and I was fine with the grind, because this seems like a grindy game, but maybe not?

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

V1's was super slow, it would take 5 minutes to mine one node, and everything you got was RNG. All V2 needs to "fix" this is to shuffle the positions into quantities (eg if you have a higher rank DoL you either get 1xitem at 100% or 2xitem at 60% or something)

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No, no it did not. If it ever took you longer than a minute you were doing it wrong. It's also ignoring that you had 8 attempts per node instead of this awful 4. Zero interactivity now and you spend even more time running around. Each node also had its own items, everything was not random.

I just want to chime in and say that I'm disappointed with this update. I personally found it not very difficult to get mining to fifty (maybe 3 days) and the leves give a ridiculous amount of experience. It saddens me that some people are averse to having to put in even the slightest amount of effort into this game.

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Originally Posted by Hekla

I feel like I've just been punched in the stomach. I worked very hard to level MIN & BOT and now that it's lv.50, you want to increase the experience points gained while leveling? Not very happy about this.

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I am let down by this too but this is how it goes, people just want hand outs. It wasn't even that difficult to level either.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

Greetings,

The development team is aware that the experience points awarded to botanists and miners is somewhat lower than what is awarded to fishers. As such, during the Hot Fix that will take place next week, we will be increasing the experience earned gained by these two classes.

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Please. NO no no!!! Online game is a kind of game, where something can be reached by spending a lot of time. IT MUST BE SO!!!! The game is already booring on 50 level. Now, with this "fix" botanist and miner will reach 50 level for 1-2 weeks. Is it right? Dear Hvinire, if developers make this "fix" they compleatly destroy game interest and destroy ingame economy. Please, dear Hvinire. Dont let to make you fool. If fishers gain too much exp- it is FISHERS, who must be nerfed, but not UPing botanists and miners. Please, listen to my words!!!

All these people yelling... You guys do understand that earlier or later there will be a ton of miners and botanists anyways, right? Everything rapidly drops in price on the market boards the last two weeks like crazy. Instead of blocking people from enjoying the botanist and miner Job you should blame the crafting and armor system. Crafters are the persons who level pretty damn fast and don't really need all the materials you gather. Every damn piece of armor can be obtained from quests or dungeon so crafters AND gatherers don't get involved. People leveling botanist/miner faster now is not the biggest issue here.

It's the whole system that doesn't work at the moment. And really lower XP doesn't really prevent people from leveling miner or botanist. It might be a slower process, but at the and they gonna do it anyways.

I unexpectedly fell in love with crafting, and have been crafting and gathering exclusively for the last several weeks. Very few crafting leves used. Just hit 50 on Weaver last night, with Carpenter and Leatherworker at 47. I find it intrinsically rewarding to farm the land, turn them into raw materials, and in turn create armor and weapons for myself and members of my FC. The system is challenging enough to remain interesting, and the cross class skills make leveling other classes rewarding.

But my Botanist... ugh. It's up to level 35, and just excrutiating to level. I end up buying the mats on the market board most of the time. It's just not engaging enough to keep at it. Especially now with the 12-15 level differences now between it and my crafting classes.

I really don't see the markets becoming more flooded by high level Botanists anytime soon. Most of the others I see out there are clearly bots now - and I doubt that's going to change anytime soon.

So, for my own selfish reasons - bring on the XP boost. It will make Botany more viable again.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

Greetings,

The development team is aware that the experience points awarded to botanists and miners is somewhat lower than what is awarded to fishers. As such, during the Hot Fix that will take place next week, we will be increasing the experience earned gained by these two classes.

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I'm in my twenties, so I'm not sure if this has been implemented and/or if it's increased good. Anyone noticing a difference?

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Originally Posted by Khalette

I'm in my twenties, so I'm not sure if this has been implemented and/or if it's increased good. Anyone noticing a difference?

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its happening during the hotfix on the 14-15 of October (depending on where you live)

What do you guys mean with that these 2 are badly designed? I find them very fun. It is very nice to do them while watching a good Anime or two :)

I had more fun levelling mining than my bard. I actually thought it was pretty great. I guess if you go into it, thinking; Oh hey theres a rock, Im gonna mine that! I bet it will be a bit repetitive and there wont be heroic battles, but thats a miners life for you.
Then it will be pretty much what you'll get. - I played a combat class for the heroism and stuff. Mining was for relaxing and going afk in my head. It was tons better than mining in any other themepark Ive played. Unless you just came off your harvesters in SWG, I dont see how this games implementation could be a dissapointment.

You can't compare Mining and Botany to Fishing, they use completely different gathering systems and has a minimal impact on the game as 90-95% of what you get you have to NPC sell as they have no place in any crafting class.

Take a look at what you have between the classes.

Mining & Botany
You get to choose what you want to gather
All items can be used for crafting or placed on market
You have abilities that influence your gathering
You only have two tools
No fatigue system

Fishing
What you get is influenced by your bait but is otherwise totally random
90-95% of what you catch has to be NPCed
You have 0 abilities, GP is a total waste on this job
You have 1 main tool and about 2 full inv screens worth of bait
After a few hours of fishing you will be locked out of that fishing spot (no idea how long)

Just last night I had to buy 5 full stacks of rat tails just to get 1 full stack of clams and oysters to make some soup for crafting CP, it was hours of grinding that I could have probably done in 30min to 1 hour on either botany or mining if that was possible.

If SE goes though with this they are acknowledging that what Yoshi P told us was incorrect and fishing is actually a full fledged gathering profession that must be equal between all gathering classes, in which case the door swings both ways... equal the xp gain between the three than you have to make fishing behave EXACTLY like the other two gathering professions.

1. Let us select what we want to catch, influenced by gathering and perception skill
2. All fished up items are to have a place with in the game / economy, in other words bring back all the crafting recipes you removed from v1
3. Put in Place GP skills to influence gathering
4. Give us an off hand item, as many have asked a fishing tackle box to place the screen full of baits in and out of our inventory
5. No fatigue system

This game is ridiculously easy with its major shallow xp curve and if anything the entire game needs an xp nerf to bring it back in line with the curve from v1.

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Originally Posted by Maku

I have never fished yet. Just how much difference in EXP are we talking about?

I might not like that they are doing this but I hardly see a point in leveling them till the hot fix boost.

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I caught 1 fish it was 10977 exp the next 10 fish averaged around 5477 exp Hq fish when catching for the first time could get you even more. There is no equivalent in bnt.

yes true but comparing the potential of fishing vs botany, botany wins so its understandable why there is this gap.

Now there is a problem obviously in the system of both crafting and gathering when you put the economy into the equation,but it doesnt help when you see people complain about it being "hard" when it takes people THREE DAYS to LVL to 50...... In FF11 I was LVL 100 clothcraft and LVL 10 digger I didnt get those in six days....

And yeah this is a different game but understand that a Fieldcraft/Tradecraft is as valueable as time invested.
So when the hotfix comes and EVEN MORE miners and botanist level to 50, have lower expectations, because even though there is a LVL 50 by your name its only equivalent to less than THREE DAYS work.

SE most likely gonna fix, this hopefully with more crafting/gathering specialization, changing or limiting crafting skills or my personal favorite idea... adding another tier above High quality, i think that would change the game.:cool:

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Originally Posted by afroelvan

people complain about it being "hard" when it takes people THREE DAYS to LVL to 50.....

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I'd like to know what you're doing to level so fast, but if that's true then what's wrong with it taking 2.5 days then?

People need to stop bringing up the ability of Bot and Min to select what we want as a way of trying a defend fishing. BOT and MIN can actually SEE what they want to get and thus can select what they want. (even in a fantasy game real life mechanics are needed). In fishing you can simply not select which fish bites your lure. (In real life you can select a lure/bait that will look more appealing to a certain type of fish or maybe one that sinks to the bottom to get fish at different depths BUT there is always the chance that you don't get the fish want because fish are really not all that picky when it comes to what they bite on. I have caught the same fish in a row with the same lure before, fish are stupid. However they do need to limit/reduce the crazyness that is fishing. But making it 100% select rate simply isn't really well real.)

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Originally Posted by PurpleArtemis

After a few hours of fishing you will be locked out of that fishing spot (no idea how long)

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Just move a couple of yalms and restart fishing, there you go. ;-)

Also, picking the fish I want to catch sounds a bit silly to me to be honest, if you put your fishing rod in a lake you don't know what will bite, however you can use certain baits to attract certain fish - this is quite intuitive and does not need change.
Whereas as a miner or botanist you can see what items are on the tree/rock and specifically log or dig for it. It makes sense the way it is.

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Originally Posted by Malila

Just move a couple of yalms and restart fishing, there you go. ;-)

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I did that multiple times, but eventually no mater where I went I kept getting the fish know something is up and could not even cast, there seems to be a limit to how much you can fish one lake / ocean.

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Originally Posted by Crescentia

I just want to chime in and say that I'm disappointed with this update. I personally found it not very difficult to get mining to fifty (maybe 3 days) and the leves give a ridiculous amount of experience. It saddens me that some people are averse to having to put in even the slightest amount of effort into this game.

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Sorry but I have to point out the irony of you screaming about people being averse to putting in even a slight bit of effort, when you yourself don't mind saying you spammed leves for 3 days and hit 50. You could have done 1 to 50 without leaves but you preferred the easy option.

Your argument is empty....

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Originally Posted by Wolfhammer

Sorry but I have to point out the irony of you screaming about people being averse to putting in even a slight bit of effort, when you yourself don't mind saying you spammed leves for 3 days and hit 50. You could have done 1 to 50 without leaves but you preferred the easy option.

Your argument is empty....

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This isn't really ironic, he just pointing out that currently its REALLY EASY to level field/tradecrafts and STILL people want an easier route. pointing out the fishing EXP differences is an empty argument.

Using leves is an easier way to level but it does take some planning and saving of allowances and its available to everyone, so no one should be complaining about wanting more EXP for the little work already required to get to 50.

Now maybe low level ores will actually worth something since people wont have one full inventory worth of said items every few levels.

Hey, guys. I started Botany last week. Just got to 31.5 tonight before maintenance started. I think Botany and Mining levels at a perfect pace considering it only takes 1.5hrs per level. The way i'm looking at is i'm trying to complete my logging achievements so I stopped using levequests for leveling and making every swing count. Not only do you get materials to sell like this but you're working on your achievement. I know the Axe of the Luminary has the SAME STATS as the quest axe but I read somewhere that SE might implement using the Luminary Axe as an upgradable tool. To me, this is probably what they intended with making each swing low exp. The point of gathering jobs is to WORK. With this new update coming out tomorrow, I feel it's gonna hurt the economy with letting everyone level gathering jobs faster. Botany/Mining is perfect the way it is, I wish they weren't changing it for whiners that don't know how to put in work in an MMO.

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Originally Posted by DukeBurden

Hey, guys. I started Botany last week. To me, this is probably what they intended with making each swing low exp. The point of gathering jobs is to WORK. With this new update coming out tomorrow, I feel it's gonna hurt the economy with letting everyone level gathering jobs faster. Botany/Mining is perfect the way it is, I wish they weren't changing it for whiners that don't know how to put in work in an MMO.

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I don't think people who work in Mining in real life want to come home and keep working on mining...again.

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Originally Posted by DukeBurden

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You might find that the ability to farm Ore and Botany stuff isn't quite the same as the desire. The most lucrative mining and botany is shards. Everyone can farm them now. It just sucks hard to do it. If you are a gatherer at heart, I wouldn't worry about becoming any less useful. Most loath the thoughts of gathering, anything. They will level the class and then never use it.

Is anyone noticing higher experience on gathering classes? My miner is only level 14 right now so maybe it's too low to notice the difference and my BOT is 50 so I don't get experience so it's hard to tell.

Hey, guys. How long was the update for FFXIV? I'm currently at work so I have to wait to get home and do it on my PS3. Curious to see what the updates did to Botany and some of the level 50 dungeons. I wish they'd tell us exactly what they did versus just giving us a brief bullet.

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Originally Posted by DukeBurden

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38 BTN here, and here's my take on it.

Leveling was slow and boring. I don't think it'll hurt the economy at all. In fact, I think it'll help the low-mid level gathering because people will spend overall less time at a certain level, therefore they will gather a lot less of the items for that level.

My 30-35 got me something like 10 stacks plus a couple stacks of HQ Flax, with plenty left over even after using nothing but Linen to get my WVR from 35-50. Flax on my server is usually somewhere around 80g per stack, with tons of undercutting from people overfarming it.

People tend to stop gathering certain items on two conditions. The first, is when their crafting class no longer needs the item for crafting. The second, is when their gathering class out-levels the item. The first one is an easy condition to fill, because crafting classes level FAST. The second one is generally a LOT slower, and results in a surplus of items for that level that will end up going to the MP.

So the less time people spend in certain level ranges, the more money we can stand to make from items in those level ranges. Sure, high-level items might decrease in price. But not everyone likes gathering enough to take it to max after they've already maxed their crafting; at least not as many compared to the people only gathering to level their crafting.

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Originally Posted by DukeBurden

Hey, guys. How long was the update for FFXIV? I'm currently at work so I have to wait to get home and do it on my PS3. Curious to see what the updates did to Botany and some of the level 50 dungeons. I wish they'd tell us exactly what they did versus just giving us a brief bullet.

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My level 29 miner is seeing xp gains from regular mining in the neighborhood of 50% for a successful chain of 4 on a node. Was getting ~830 xp last night per 4-chain and seeing 1200+ xp today on the same nodes at the same level.

A buddy of mine suggested I level weaving and carpentry while I gather. Crafting seems easy enough in this game. I could level weaving to 50 in like 2 types of ingreds from what I\\'ve read. People just cap 50 using flax. I\\'ll just get around to that when I finish botany. I don\\'t feel any rush to level crafting when they all use the same formula. Use a low leve, spam to 50.