Scared about ARR

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Originally Posted by Laume

Don't know if it's been mentioned (and hate to dig up skeletons), but the only f2p [former] SE product I know is/was Fantasy Earth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_Earth:_Zero
But I agree with most people. SE has never given in to the whole "Pay this for free! You'll get bored of it in 3 months anyways. There's a new game on the horizon! Buy some fake currency!" model that many kmmo's have established. If they ever do, ffxi will go first (they literally said that they didn't expect the game to last this long. But it's still making money so they keep it running/adding stuff.). If this game is/was, that big of a failure, they certainly won't go the f2p model. That's one thing I like about companies like square enix. They have a passion for what they're doing. They'd rather have a great product that failed than an army of shallow product that they can wh*re out.

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I was thinking about that game, (and i loved it) but FEZ was a subscription game when it was in SE's hands. It didnt become F2P until gamepot bought it. Wish someone else would pick it up, wouldn't mind playing that until ARR comes out.

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Originally Posted by Exn

I'd have to disagree with you. I personally haven't experieced a F2P MMORPG that was worth hanging around longer than a year. The stigma you speak of, is usually warranted.

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I think what Wicka is saying is that the f2p model *can* be done right, not that it ever has. Kind of like how communism can be an good form of government, but it never has been. I guess it's the same in a lot of ways, if companies resist the temptation of making cheap, fast, pretty but shallow game, it can be done well. Just like no one that has formed a communist government has resisted the temptation to take advantage of the fact that there's a severe lack of checks in power in the system.

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Originally Posted by Lady

I was thinking about that game, (and i loved it) but FEZ was a subscription game when it was in SE's hands. It didnt become F2P until gamepot bought it. Wish someone else would pick it up, wouldn't mind playing that until ARR comes out.

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Yes, you're absolutely right. I should have expanded what I meant by [former] SE product. Thank you for the clarification. I never got the play the game, sadly... I wanted to, but by the time I had time, the game closed like 2 weeks later.

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

Exn: you correct, something i have noted in not one, not two but ALL free to play games is that the community is divided in to two different camps. The people who pay, and pay more then a monthly sub would normally cost for stuff that should be included in the base. And the people who don't pay at all, who are to such a large extent penalized that they don't stay around long. Way i see it GW2 was a pure rip off, why? Because, even after you spend the 69.99 on your copy, and start playing you quickly realize that unless you keep burning money and the total ends up way over 14.99 a month... you see that you can't honestly keep up with the game speed. At cap unless you are bleeding your credit card like a pig. You can't even afford repairs, at cap the difference between people who pay ~50$ a month and those who choose not to is to the level like we are playing 2 different games.

This is the reason i prefer a p2p game with a monthly sub, we all get the same base and a persons pay at the end of the month does not influence the enjoyment of the game. Were i will give a penalty to p2p games is that they all seem hell bent on 14.99 a month. And yes some people to feel that's steep, and yet i see no MMO p2p braking out of that mold..

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I bought Gw2 to play the beta pre order thing but never took to it. When you posted this I had to look into it since I hadn't done anything really in Gw2. The pricing is crazy! The best armor in the game you have to spend almost $600 us to buy enough game gold to get it. Thats ridiculous... *tosses her unplayed gw2 in the trash before she actually has a care to play it*

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Originally Posted by Kyri

I bought Gw2 to play the beta pre order thing but never took to it. When you posted this I had to look into it since I hadn't done anything really in Gw2. The pricing is crazy! The best armor in the game you have to spend almost $600 us to buy enough game gold to get it. Thats ridiculous... *tosses her unplayed gw2 in the trash before she actually has a care to play it*

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I have never been prouder of a human being than I am of you right now Kyri. Well done.

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

This is the reason i prefer a p2p game with a monthly sub, we all get the same base and a persons pay at the end of the month does not influence the enjoyment of the game. Were i will give a penalty to p2p games is that they all seem hell bent on 14.99 a month. And yes some people to feel that's steep, and yet i see no MMO p2p braking out of that mold..

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I'll gladly fork over $14.99/mo for quality entertainment. When it keeps me entertained to the point where I want to log in several times a week, for a few hours each time, the cost per hour is way cheaper than say netflix.

Stupid phone. What i meant to say was that the GW2 system doesn't effect gameplay. People hate RMT because there are sellers spamming everything and the economy gets screwed up. GW2 has an exchange system that lets people who don't buy gems get them at an exchange rate for gold. You can use gems to get just about anything the real money gets you all through farming gold. This is balanced by the karma currency. If some dude with money to burn wants to buy gear or black lion keys he can. The only difference between him and the guy who bought the game on black Friday for 2 dollars is that dude with money gets that stuff sooner than black Friday guy. That is a micro transaction system as it should be. I farmed the mats to get a plushy griffin pet during the Christmas event last month with friends. If i wanted to buy the other Christmas pets i could have, or i could have farmed more mats for them.

GW2 is a shining example of micro transactions at work. Because save for a few inconsequential things, all items are available to every player regardless of monetary input. Those who wish to save time spend money. Those who wish to save money spend time. And the key component of the game (gameplay) is unchanged and solid. I haven't dropped a dime on GW2 and all my gear stays current because my buddies and I craft for each other and hunt big events.

again, Im not saying xiv should go F2P, but if done well its very effective and lucrative. I am considering spending a little cash on black lion keys to open all my bl chests. I could farm them, but i kinda want to open them all at once.

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Originally Posted by Cedri

I have never been prouder of a human being than I am of you right now Kyri. Well done.

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D'aww.. *kisses your cheek*

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Originally Posted by Kyri

D'aww.. *kisses your cheek*

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http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc...074o1_1280.png

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Originally Posted by SidRheingold

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5...justsayf2p.jpg

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Too funny!

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Originally Posted by Wicka

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The RMT in GW2 are the dev's... I bought the game played it to cap of 80 (took a month), and i quit after i found out that I'll need to pork out more for my endgame armor then a (@15$ a year sub is 180$, i needed to spend 496$, so 496/180 = close to 3 years) 3 year subscription to a p2p game... while yes you "CAN" play to obtain it you are so penalized for not spending real $$$ that it would feel like going down a hill in a bike with out a seat OR brakes.

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

Just read that Tera is going free to play in the US and EU, and people are commenting that they give ARR from 4 to 8 months after release to follow the same route as all the other MMO's the last years...

I fear for the mindset of the population, not about the quality of the game, that may force it's demise...

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Then go hide under your bed.

We'll have fun playing the game :D

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Originally Posted by Laume

I think what Wicka is saying is that the f2p model *can* be done right, not that it ever has.

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Only, it cannot, unless you find a MMORPG that's made by a software house and a publisher that are into charity.

They need to make a profit and to fund further development, so they HAVE to use sizable development resources to push their cash shop and pay-to content. Those resources are inevitably taken away from developing the core game, withn an equally inevitable reduction in quality.

That's why free to play games will never have the same quality of experience offered by Pay to Play ones.

As for every product, you get what you pay for.

so many fail comments here :)
you seem to think f2p=bad support, development and everything, which isn't the case. there's lots of people paying 100s of dollars/month in f2p games, so SE would still make lots of money in f2p.
and also...seriously, everyone that likes p2p, you can spend money in f2p anyways, to generate money for SE, so they can continue developing -.- Just cause you dont subscribe, doesn't mean you can't contribute. you can contribute as much as you want, you can buy stuff for multiple subscriptions if it makes you feel better. you could buy stuff for 10dollars/month to cover you *subscription*
So if everyone that p2p now buy stuff in f2p for 10 dollar/month, SE would make the same money as before, and then they would get much more for everyone that buys more
How does that make f2p bad? how does that equal worse development/support?
This entire thing is the same stupid shit as people whining about WoW this and that.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

so many fail comments here :)

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Yep. You just wrote one.

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You seem to think f2p=bad support, development and everything, which isn't the case. there's lots of people paying 100s of dollars/month in f2p games

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And guess what? Considerable development resources need to go on the cash shop to ensure that those people pay and continue paying those 100s of dollars a month.

Guess where those resources are taken away from?

The core game.

When developers have to run a game like a supermarket (which is exactly what Free to Play games are) in which everything needs to push the perspective customer to purchase more, don't expect it to work like a luxury restaurant. It won't.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Yep. You just wrote one.



And guess what? Considerable development resources need to go on the cash shop to ensure that those people pay and continue paying those 100s of dollars a month.

Guess where those resources are taken away from?

The core game.

When developers have to run a game like a supermarket (which is exactly what Free to Play games are) in which everything needs to push the perspective customer to purchase more, don't expect it to work like a luxury restaurant. It won't.

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Considerable resources sounds like an exaggeration.
It's only with crappy companies that rather pump out new cash shop items, than make any new content; who don't really care about development. that's what gives f2p a bad name.
i doubt it would be the case with ARR.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

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You seem to know what's good'n bad, so how about you line me a f2p MMO were you get 100% of the game free after purchase of the copy, were you are NOT eye gouged at every turn unless you bleed the life out for your CC... feel free to look around.. f2p is something used to pay of investors as quickly as possible.

Youshi clearly stated that ARR does not have investors as SE is flipping the cost, meaning that SE will not be looking for a quick grab like nearly all MMO's on the market.

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

You seem to know what's good'n bad, so how about you line me a f2p MMO were you get 100% of the game free after purchase of the copy, were you are NOT eye gouged at every turn unless you bleed the life out for your CC... feel free to look around.. f2p is something used to pay of investors as quickly as possible.

Youshi clearly stated that ARR does not have investors as SE is flipping the cost, meaning that SE will not be looking for a quick grab like nearly all MMO's on the market.

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hm although Aion started off as p2p, it's now f2p, and you dont *need* any of the cash shop items, so you'll do totally fine without spending any money. And you don't even need to buy a copy. so it's 100% free.
Rose online is kinda p2w, but since economy is totally absurd there, you can sell easy to get materials, and get loads of money, to buy good gear, that people made with craft boost cash items etc.
the only f2p game i know where you almost NEED to use cash shop, is Granado Espada, since you need cash items for quests, skills, equips, UPCs etc.

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

You seem to know what's good'n bad, so how about you line me a f2p MMO were you get 100% of the game free after purchase of the copy, were you are NOT eye gouged at every turn unless you bleed the life out for your CC... feel free to look around.. f2p is something used to pay of investors as quickly as possible.

Youshi clearly stated that ARR does not have investors as SE is flipping the cost, meaning that SE will not be looking for a quick grab like nearly all MMO's on the market.

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Any F2P I have played has some sort of content that is for "premium" members or some sort of microtransaction. Up until now, I didn't even know you had to invest any money into GW2, lol.

Anyway.. I think it's a little too soon to get worried about it. Look at FFXI.. It still isn't F2P! SE has the PS3 version to also look forward to.

This is a sad thread to read, it's like there's only a handful of people who actually understand how free to play works or that each and every one uses different methods. Some good, some bad, it's as simple as that. That aside, what's it matter what other games are free to play?

This game has a niche community and it will always be small compared to others, difference is with the square logo slapped on they can sucker people to keep paying subs because they are "loyal" to final fantasy.

That, and the fact that both final fantasy mmos probably have one the most mild mannered communities(and super whiney) is what kept it afloat, not because they were some kind of great and amazing games(average if you ask me). Hell, I played XI for like 5-6 years and I still ask myself, "how in the hell did they manage that?".

It's very silly to be scared for a game that managed to get through 1.0 without losing everyone, if anything they are unstoppable at this point. As long as they don't build up too much hype there won't be too much room for disappointment, I mean we've already seen the pinnacle of failure on month 1-3 of FFXIV's release, and it only got better afterwards.

Long story short, they will never have a need to be F2P simply because they are square.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

Considerable resources sounds like an exaggeration.

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Only to those that know absolutely nothing about game development.

Not only it requires considerable development resources, but it requires shifting the *entire* game towards a different development philosophy. IE: Running it like a supermarket designed to compel customers to buy more, which *never* goes hand in hand with quality.

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Originally Posted by Hanemakikaze

This is a sad thread to read, it's like there's only a handful of people who actually understand how free to play works...

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What's sad is that people keep going on and on about F2P, when Yoshi-P himself said it's not gonna happen.

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Originally Posted by Wicka

The "better shit" is the wrong way to do F2P. Those are the games that give F2P it's horrible reputation.

The fact that you make enough money to pay 20+ subs a month is irrelevant. If you can easily afford to pay what it costs to play the game, then you can even more easily afford to blow some cash on whatever you please, should that sub money be freed up. I feel like you are trying to brag that you make loads of cash. A smart way for SE to d

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That's about where I stopped reading. I'm not bragging about how much money I make, I fully expect people in this forum to make 4x as much as me as well as 1/3 as much as me, even less.. or perhaps even live off the taxes I pay. For all you know I am lying, with no job and living off YOUR taxes, it doesn't matter.

The simple fact is you mentioned you make enough money to pay a sub, so you can just as easily pay for whatever from an F2P game.. My point was, I might own the worlds worth in money but it doesn't mean I want to be bothered with buying stuff from some game store to play a video game. I pay a flat fee to play FFXIV no more, no less and that's that. Not $0 today, $100 tomorrow. I also get reliable updates and service, and that's the way I like it.

If i post a naughty picture will that finally get this steaming pile locked or at best removed?

they won't go f2p but if it becomes clear they are losing people and inament failure then they should start pumping out content that is more like ffxi-2 and see if they can stop bleeding out people and maybe lots of those who left start coming back. not much to lose after that point.

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

If i post a naughty picture will that finally get this steaming pile locked or at best removed?

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As mod said, for now if you violate the rules they will only delete your post.

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

If i post a naughty picture will that finally get this steaming pile locked or at best removed?

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You would at least get the post removed and maybe permanently banned. SE's pretty quick with the ban-hammer around here.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

You would at least get the post removed and maybe permanently banned. SE's pretty quick with the ban-hammer around here.

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^^^ Please don't do anything stupid, Twiddle. >.<
I know most of us love about naughty pictures but not this time though.

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Originally Posted by Morticous

That's about where I stopped reading. I'm not bragging about how much money I make, I fully expect people in this forum to make 4x as much as me as well as 1/3 as much as me, even less.. or perhaps even live off the taxes I pay. For all you know I am lying, with no job and living off YOUR taxes, it doesn't matter.

The simple fact is you mentioned you make enough money to pay a sub, so you can just as easily pay for whatever from an F2P game.. My point was, I might own the worlds worth in money but it doesn't mean I want to be bothered with buying stuff from some game store to play a video game. I pay a flat fee to play FFXIV no more, no less and that's that. Not $0 today, $100 tomorrow. I also get reliable updates and service, and that's the way I like it.

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All that, plus if you dont make enough for a standard sub, you probably cant afford electricity or a decent computer either :o


I guess there are those EXTREMELY RARE situations where 12.99 every 30 days is breaking the budget....

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Originally Posted by Radacci

and you dont *need* any of the cash shop items,

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Well at least if I *Want* the items that would be in a cash shop, in a p2p I can get them the same way as everyone else for one flat monthly fee.

People are like ooh this game is free! ill play that!

then they play for free for a while, then they get tempted by the stuff you can buy, and then they end up paying a lot more than the monthly fee for a subscription based game.

Companies don't switch to free to play because they want to make people happy, it's just a draw-in, like King Vinegaroon, then they get you to buy stuff you kept telling yourself you werent' going to buy.

I'll take the set it and forget it nature of a subscription. I don't want to be teased and tempted by a pay-for-power cash shop.

Know what? if TERA was a game that looked like Cyberpunk 2077 (just watched trailer) then YES i would be scared... But instead TERA is a story book weaver type of a game with the only ass-pect worth it, is the fact that most guys get the same affect from it as taking Viagra... So yes, TERA going f2p is as dangerous as AION going f2p it get's a few % spike when it happens, which melts in a few weeks.

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

If i post a naughty picture will that finally get this steaming pile locked or at best removed?

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http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps785ac0a1.jpg
Tehehe

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

If i post a naughty picture will that finally get this steaming pile locked or at best removed?

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If people start posting a bunch of mithra butts like in that one mithra topic I bet it will get deleted.

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

Just read that Tera is going free to play in the US and EU, and people are commenting that they give ARR from 4 to 8 months after release to follow the same route as all the other MMO's the last years...

I fear for the mindset of the population, not about the quality of the game, that may force it's demise...

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No fear, don't you think SE is an independent company that decides its own fate through the power of its community?
Square Enix has been around the block for a long while, it's didn't pop out of nowhere. SE is its own company and enterprise and has branched out to create more jobs. I for one support that and don't believe they'll sell out just to save a little bit of "chump-change". They are pushing forward with good content for ARR and upping the standards for customer service.

You just need to believe they are resisting the New F2P World Order and if your reading this SE, you have the lives of many in your hands.

What does Tera have to do with ARR? Tera is ending up the way it deserved to be in the first place. >3>

Someone said some of us who haven't tried alpha should try TERA before tell you how "scared" about ARR because 1.0 was better than what TERA is now... =_=

Tera was very fun for me for a month, however it's a game that doesn't last. Great combat system and graphics, however lacked everywhere else for me.

No one should be scared, or even care, about whats going on with TERA. TERA is garbage. A typical kmmo gold farm game with a good combat system. It's not even on Rifts level, its on Aions level. At least AION still charges for the client, I think :/

Those idiots couldn't even get a 'remember login' checkbox for the launcher from closed beta up til now, even tho it was requested way back at the beginning of the closed beta at the beginning of 2012. It took them 4-5 months to un-#@*$ the 'crafting system' which will also never be on XIV's level.

Nothing to see, nothing to fear.

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

Tera was very fun for me for a month, however it's a game that doesn't last. Great combat system and graphics, however lacked everywhere else for me.

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That's how I feel about MMOs these days. I tried WoW 15 days free-trail and I quit after 15-30 mins because I couldn't stand cartoonish and ugly female character. Tried many F2P MMOs and got bored after a few days.

Only MMOs I can think of are... FFXI, FFXIV, and maybe PSO2. I loved EVE online but realized that most of everything is the same thing (except PvP which I wasn't ready for a while.)

After FFXI, I played WoW for 4-5 years. Ya, graphics are way out of date and I find the story very corny that I face-palm frequently. One thing I miss about WoW is the 25 man raiding. I'm not going to miss it much longer, since ARR will have 24 man raiding.