Marriage feedback [inofficial Poll]

I hope we do get same sex marriage :) I support it 100%!

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Originally Posted by Kuzak

There's nothing progressive about the LGBT community. It's a sign of a decadent society on the virge of collapse.

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Please enlighten me further how they are on the verge of collapse.

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

The entirety of this thread is the desire to force the opinion of gay marriage being valid onto others

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The point of the thread, as I see it, is to say that there is no point in limiting the rights of players to choose their marriage partner in game.

People who oppose this idea of equality should at least try to argue why their rights should be limited - in the context of the game. So far I haven't seen a single reason to why same sex marriage wouldn't be - as you put it - valid in the world of Eorzea.

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Originally Posted by Kuzak

There's nothing progressive about the LGBT community. It's a sign of a decadent society on the virge of collapse.

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There hasn't been a period of human culture without homosexuality. By your logic every period of history would have been the sign of a decadent society on the verge of collapse. We've been collapsing from the start then?

Eagleheart is the kind of short sighted religious stance I was talking about, basing marriage not on love but the ability to procreate. Why can't someone fall in love with someone of the same sex?

If you say they can why should they not be able to get married? You don't need to get married to procreate do other animals get married before procreation?

This is the kind of question that contradicts everything you have said, also our population is increasing all the time, not going down, we are giving birth in most countries to over populate them so much so that people have said we will not be able to maintain this level for much longer.

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Originally Posted by charlemagne

Firstly the population argument is both incorrect and irrelevent. Populations on the brink of collapse? Nonsense. I never said marriage was an ancient custom, it is an old concept which exists in a variety of customs. Concepts and customs change, they always have. Otherwise we would still be clubbing women over the head and dragging them back to our caves.

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It is difficult to accept because you do not actually see it occuring, but even a cursory examination of birth rates in the Western world (Japan as well) will reveal that what I said about replacement rates is accurate, to say nothing of China and their forced one-child policy.

In any event, I have spoken my peace, and I will be going now. I intend to spend the entirety of the day psyched up for 2.0. o.o I wish everyone a great afternoon.

Biological fact: There are several other species that hold homosexual relationships even without the advanced emotional intelligence that we've developed. So, in theory, homosexuality is completely natural until you implement an ego. ;)

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Eagleheart is the kind of short sighted religious stance I was talking about, basing marriage not on love but the ability to procreate. Why can't someone fall in love with someone of the same sex?

If you say they can why should they not be able to get married? You don't need to get married to procreate do other animals get married before procreation?

This is the kind of question that contradicts everything you have said, also our population is increasing all the time, not going down, we are giving birth in most countries to over populate them so much so that people have said we will not be able to maintain this level for much longer.

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Again, a cursory examination of the facts will reveal that what I said is true. (o.O)> Adieu.

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

Adjectives placed next to the word 'truth' does not change 'truth'. One man may say there is no God, another may say there is no God but allah, another may say only Buddha was right. They are not all right. Someone is wrong by definition, each declares mutual exclusivity from the other.

If I were to say that fifty times ten is five hundred and were then to be told by another that it was actually seventeen, I am still speaking the truth. Simply because one wishes a thing to be so does not make it so, nor does telling oneself that there are many 'truths' change anything but the formatting of one's own mind, which typically leads to delusional behavior. This is now commonplace in Western society.

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Exactly. You've just proven all of your previous statements to be wrong and, perhaps, delusional, with this reply.

You will have to pardon me for not taking you for a holder of the one truth that it all boils down to. Neither on the population numbers of the western civilization, birth rates, decline of mankind or however you want to call it, let alone on the basic human rights issues.

I'll be taking that pedestal now.

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

As mentioned above, the thread was begun with the idea of the changing times and societally accepted norms shifting. If we begin there, we will probably end up returning to that point of contention over the course of the conversation.

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By your own admission, this is about society and social norms; something very malleable and subjective. So please stop bring biology into this, because marriage and biology have nothing to do with each other. Marriage is not an evolutionary response

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

Again, a cursory examination of the facts will reveal that what I said is true. (o.O)> Adieu.

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Facts and Truth, you should look up the meaning of these words, for you do not speak them.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

Please enlighten me further how they are on the verge of collapse.

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We are all secretly gay and when gay marriage is acknowledged everywhere the human race as a whole will stop pretending to like the opposite sex and die off in a giant pile of hot gay sex.

This is what i am getting from what those 2 are on about. IMO

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Originally Posted by charlemagne

Concepts and customs change, they always have.

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And in this case, it is a change for the worse.

75% of the question was useless...ex: marriage ..who give a crap about that. i play FF to escape normal daily work life not to get back into it. just my opinion sry if i offend anyone /bow

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

In any event, I have spoken my peace, and I will be going now.

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Ok well it seems he is done, let's leave it at that and not let the post revolve around a single persons response when he has no intention of responding back.

Discussion is the name of the game, not fighting over who can argue with a invisible phantom.

Lets all get back to Eorzia, and why same sex marriage should be allowed in Eorzia.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Lets all get back to Eorzia, and why same sex marriage should be allowed in Eorzia.

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Cuz me and my lalafell boyfriend are super cutes ^___^

Kuzuk and Eagleheart, you are totally allowed to have an opinion. That opinion is completely valid. Do not conflate your opinion to be fact. Check out marriage around the world to see how different it is. As far as biology argument, yeah so infertile people of any gender should be married correct? As far as population goes, we are already straining our resources. I personally think the backlash from not adding it would fade in today's 24 hour news cycle. When all is said and done I think the best option is for SE to allow for players to do ceremonies on their own and not sanction any ceremonies as official in game. It save them the backlash from either side. Oh one last thing for you privileged folks, what is marriage but wanting to have one relationship validated? Yeah thought so you want yours validated, but refuse to validate others. Way to be a good human.

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

The entirety of this thread is the desire to force the opinion of gay marriage being valid onto others, conforming to what is quoted above as an ancient and outmoded custom. I am not forcing anything on anyone, nor am I advancing a new opinion. I am merely standing ground on a biological fact.

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Biology and evolution also promote the killing (whether by action or inaction) of anyone who is not physically and mentally strong enough to survive against ambient competition. It also promotes the subjugation of the weaker members of the pack in order to fulfill the needs of the strongest member/members. And humans are pack animals. The beatiful ability of a human mind is to overcome these biological rules and to feel compassion, love and understanding towards other beings. This is also called morality. I'm sure not even you would wish the full extent of the evolutional cruelty to be applied to all humans.

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Originally Posted by Kye

Cuz me and my lalafell boyfriend are super cutes ^___^

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Excelent reason, same sex marriage approved.

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Originally Posted by Reika

I'm still waiting to hear some logical reason why 2 people of the same sex getting married in a game, or even IRL, would effect you in any way. How would you even know it happened? would you wait around the cathedral all day scouting for possible gay marriages? would you be unable to sleep at night if they added gay marriage? would the thought of a gay couple buying housing land in the same area as you make you uncomfortable?

Really, what is it. I'm not gay and I dont feel any of those things. I even have a gay room mate IRL, I dont feel threatened at the fact he likes men and would marry a man, and I wouldn't care if he did in a game or IRL. WHAT IS going on in your heads? really.

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While i don't care either way but for some people same sex marriage just shits on their religion cause marriage is something that is suppose to be sacred in a lot of religions, and from se's point of view a lot of places still don't allow it and its is looked down on, you guys have to remember they are a business and will always do what they see is best for their company.

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

As mentioned above, the thread was begun with the idea of the changing times and societally accepted norms shifting. If we begin there, we will probably end up returning to that point of contention over the course of the conversation.

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Uuuum, actually the purpose of this thread is whether the community wants same gender marriage ingame or not.

That a discussion about human rights and society occurs was likely to happen but it was not the purpose of the thread. The purpose was game feedback.

We just got bombarded by a pissed off Bahamut I don't think a realm rebuilt in the name of unity and peace would have any problems allowing same sex unions especially when most of their customers faced death together in the attempts to save these very same people.

Nophica and the patrons of Gridania support same sex unions!

I would also like to point out a psychological fact that people who are the loudest against an issue usually have something to hide in themselves regarding what they are advocating against.

This thread is going to end up locked unfortunately.

I'm really glad to see so many more people are ok with the idea of same sex marriage. Our society truly is heading in the direction of full acceptance of it and my partner of 8 years and I never thought we'd see that in our life time. There is still hope that one day we will be able to get married even here in the state of Florida.

As far as FFXIV goes, I would never use the marriage feature in the game at all, but I strongly feel that if it is going to be in game at all that it be inclusive and allow same-sex coupling as well. Love and let love.

The people who don't like it can go to hell. They no longer speak for the majority. Adapt or go extinct.

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Originally Posted by Kalaka

Kuzuk and Eagleheart, you are totally allowed to have an opinion. That opinion is completely valid. Do not conflate your opinion to be fact. Check out marriage around the world to see how different it is. As far as biology argument, yeah so infertile people of any gender should be married correct? As far as population goes, we are already straining our resources. I personally think the backlash from not adding it would fade in today's 24 hour news cycle. When all is said and done I think the best option is for SE to allow for players to do ceremonies on their own and not sanction any ceremonies as official in game. It save them the backlash from either side. Oh one last thing for you privileged folks, what is marriage but wanting to have one relationship validated? Yeah thought so you want yours validated, but refuse to validate others. Way to be a good human.

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Thats where this comes in:

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Originally Posted by Reika

I think having crafted wedding (or joining) items that one can trade to any gender they want as a marriage (or union) proposal or in the actual marriage (or union) would be a good comprimise to having GM sponsering either opposite or same sex marriages (or unions)

For rings, they are completely statless and the item becomes untradeable after being traded. Clothing and accessories can be made and sold/traded freely. Hopefully with the addition of signatures from the crafter on the crafted item, we can add a few lines of text too, so there can be custom wedding (or joining) vows on them.

This way SE just gives players the choice on what gender they are going to marry (or join with) without being directly involved. Not saying that is the best choice, but I think it is a good alternative. This way the ~vast minority~ wont whine about things that wont even involve them. It would also be easier not involved 'waiting in line' to get married (or joined) by a GM.

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Originally Posted by Kuzak

And in this case, it is a change for the worse.

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That is your opinion and I defend your freedom to hold it. The people who believe you are wrong have just as much right to live their lives as they see fit. You may feel free to practice marriage as you see it, you do not have the right to deny us the same privelige.

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Originally Posted by Firon

While i don't care either way but for some people same sex marriage just shits on their religion cause marriage is something that is suppose to be sacred in a lot of religions, and from se's point of view a lot of places still don't allow it and its is looked down on, you guys have to remember they are a business and will always do what they see is best for their company.

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Already submitted options to prevent them from having to condone or uncondone same-sex marriages.

Yeah! The world just got blown up, we need love to bring everyone together!

Hildebrand would approve!
http://i.imgur.com/uDs1Y.jpg

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

Again, a cursory examination of the facts will reveal that what I said is true. (o.O)> Adieu.

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Translation: I'M RIGHT!!! BECAUSE I SAY SO!! THE ONLY TRUE WORDS ARE THE ONES I SPEAK!

Someone has a god complex.

I never understand why people get so upset over things that don't affect them... What other people do is none of anyone's business unless it negatively affects others in some form. This... does not.

Loggos

You have to understand that while most of us do treat the game and our characters within it as not of this world and compeltely seperate from our daily lives, there are many people out there who do/do not want to see things included in games because of their beliefs. I agree wholeheartedly that allowing this in the game does not really (and should not) impact anything outside of the game, but not everyone does, and different regions of the world can have drastically different feelings on the subject.

Because of this, it's extremely unlikely that this is going to be added to the game anytime soon, even though it has strong support (especially from certain regions).

(I live in Maine which just voted to legalize it, and I voted for it as well- even though I am not of the GLBT crowd, I respect the desires of these people and I don't feel like it affects or infringes on me in any way)

Reika nice hair style! :)

I'd just like to take a moment to point out, as some people have already done, that SE is handling this very poorly. They ask the community, us, how we feel about a topic, then decide to lock the threads that break up from the original one as if they didn't know better - as if they couldn't anticipate a subject like this would cause strong opposing opinions to clash on their own official forums.

Just make a damn official poll, SE. If you really want to know how the majority of your playerbase feels and act however you will upon the results. . . . cause at this point, we're all going in circles.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

You have to understand that while most of us do treat the game and our characters within it as not of this world and compeltely seperate from our daily lives, there are many people out there who do/do not want to see things included in games because of their beliefs. I agree wholeheartedly that allowing this in the game does not really (and should not) impact anything outside of the game, but not everyone does, and different regions of the world can have drastically different feelings on the subject.

Because of this, it's extremely unlikely that this is going to be added to the game anytime soon, even though it has strong support (especially from certain regions).

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You said it better than i could.

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Originally Posted by Nuinn

I'd just like to take a moment to point out, as some people have already done, that SE is handling this very poorly. They ask the community, us, how we feel about a topic, then decide to lock the threads that break up from the original one as if they didn't know better - as if they couldn't anticipate a subject like this would cause strong opposing opinions to clash on their own official forums.

Just make a damn official poll, SE. If you really want to know how the majority of your playerbase feels and act however you will upon the results. . . . cause at this point, we're all going in circles.

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This topic has been brought about 10 times now SE has heard the voices don't need to hear it again.

I have to agree with the people who point out that if SE was going to add it, or thinking of adding it they should have done so silently without making a fuss about it.

One way to look at it though if they make a big deal about it's addition it would bring alot of PR (Good and Bad) Maybe they want to make a big deal about it, for that reason alone. It does seem a bit odd to talk about it in the live letter at all if they felt it was a sensative topic they could have avoided it alltogether (They had full control over the questions they answered).

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Originally Posted by Kalaka

Reika nice hair style! :)

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Why thank you, you too ^^

imma just post pics why i personally think there should be same-sex marriage in eorzea ^^
http://i.imgur.com/a6DUW.jpg

Marriage completely pointless in game. Whoever thought of the idea is stupid.
It's beyond me why people keep assisting they add this in game. It's waste of the developers time to create something better. If you want marriage so much should just hook up in real life and do it.

or

Just play another game with all of those functions already,

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Originally Posted by Firon

This topic has been brought about 10 times now SE has heard the voices don't need to hear it again.

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Then why do they keep asking us for an opinion? :/

Again, when first they mentioned marriage being included in ARR "back then", they must have known this sort of discussions will be brought up on the forums. On the other hand, they can't base their decision on such a matter, as opposed to something more trivial, like the Gobbue mount, on a small portion of players who bother to check, vote and post on the official forums. If they want input, as they said they do (for any topic; additional playable races, missing genders, 1.0 servers being open past the final event etc.) there's a proper way to do it - official poll.