Auto Attack wins!

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Oh, let me guess? Samurai? That's why I said "most melee jobs". Samurai and Thief were exceptions.

It's great that you play the game to have conversations... some people actually play the game to play the game.

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So you're not from the "More group content, stop catering to solo players, this is an MMO, if you don't want to socialize go back to single-player RPGs" camp?

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Originally Posted by trinta

So you're not from the "More group content, stop catering to solo players, this is an MMO, if you don't want to socialize go back to single-player RPGs" camp?

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Umm... you can be in groups and be "social" without spending most of your time in combat chatting away incessantly while waiting for your character to build up TP. We also have this nifty program called "Vent".

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Umm... you can be in groups and be "social" without spending most of your time in combat chatting away incessantly while waiting for your character to build up TP. We also have this nifty program called "Vent".

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Vent... how "NA" of you :p

I suppose you were one of those DDs that just whistled at 100% TP.

While other people had to be puller, had 1st provoke shifts to eat the shadows, then had to crossbow bolt the enemy for def down and other debuffs. And perish the thought of advance techniques like pulling before the enemy is dead, for chain 4-5-6, etc.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Not even warrior. Warriors had to be war/nins or war/thfs, or war/plds. None of those were wait for TP roles. Not unless you were "NA".

The only job that could have potentially been in the category was monk, but even monk changed as the game matured.

There was very little passiveness in FF11. And even dare say how bad it would be if you didn't communicate. It was very interactive in the same way you have to be stranded on a desert island with 5 other people. Nothing worked unless you combined your strengths...

...Of course that why the term "NA" stuck with FF11 for its life time. If you were a introvert that only did the minimum, you were shunned from society.

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I was mainly thinking of main job abilities so yea with sub-jobs there was no point in being uninvolved unless you are already bored with the game in the first place. I never had a dull moment (until abyssea) in all of my years playing ffxi and I spent most of my time in parties helping people or leveling.

Yeah, but see, I haven't found a way to say anything to anyone while still really being effective in combat in XIV. Having auto-attack will let me feel like I can spend two or three seconds typing a sentence.

If that makes someone mad, frankly, they should probably look into hobbies that don't involve other people.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Vent... how "NA" of you :p

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NA? As in North America?

If that's what you're implying, we had Japanese players on Vent all the time. And when they had trouble with English, I helped them translate.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Oh, let me guess? Samurai? That's why I said "most melee jobs". Samurai and Thief were exceptions.

It's great that you play the game to have conversations... some people actually play the game to play the game.

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I played DRK in FFXI and I was kept very busy with drain's, absorb's, ACC and Attack buffs, weapon skills and so on with auto attack. Really Kaedan it is just starting to sound like you were a bad player in FFXI if you just let auto attack do it's thing every battle.

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Originally Posted by trinta

Yeah, but see, I haven't found a way to say anything to anyone while still really being effective in combat in XIV. Having auto-attack will let me feel like I can spend two or three seconds typing a sentence.

If that makes someone mad, frankly, they should probably look into hobbies that don't involve other people.

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I was never for AA but that was my only reason I wouldn't be made if we got it, now I can say something without standing there looking brain dead for a few seconds.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

I played DRK in FFXI and I was kept very busy with drain's, absorb's, ACC and Attack buffs, weapon skills and so on with auto attack. Really Kaedan it is just starting to sound like you were a bad player in FFXI if you just let auto attack do it's thing every battle.

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lol FU Alexia.

I didn't do these things. Those are the things I saw people doing. The bad AA implementation in FFXI encouraged bad gameplay by bad players.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

NA? As in North America?

If that's what you're implying, we had Japanese players on Vent all the time. And when they had trouble with English, I helped them translate.

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If you don't get the the joke, I don't think you're quite qualified to talk about FF11 party tactics and society. It was rough and draconian. Everyone was pressured to be at 110%.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

I played DRK in FFXI and I was kept very busy with drain's, absorb's, ACC and Attack buffs, weapon skills and so on with auto attack. Really Kaedan it is just starting to sound like you were a bad player in FFXI if you just let auto attack do it's thing every battle.

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He doesn't get the "NA" joke. I think he's not a regular.

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The bad AA implementation in FFXI encouraged bad gameplay by bad players.

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Are you implying that people do their best in FFXIV right now? Take a look around the next time you group for guildleves or grind on raptors, you might be surprised by the suspiciously slow stamina regen (or even TP generation) some people seem to have!

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

If you don't get the the joke, I don't think you're quite qualified to talk about FF11 party tactics and society. It was rough and draconian. Everyone was pressured to be at 110%.



He doesn't get the "NA" joke. I think he's not a regular.

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Umm... I played FFXI for 6 years and was a leader of an endgame shell and officer in another, and I've never heard of "NA" except to refer to North American players.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Umm... I played FFXI for 6 years and was a leader of an endgame shell and officer in another, and I've never heard of "NA" except to refer to North American players.

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Well if you played that much and still couldn't get a handle on how involved FFXI's battle system was even with auto attack that doesn't say alot.

At the end of the day there will always be boring fights where people will just mash 1 or just let the auto attack roll that is never going to change so what difference does it make really.

I always stayed active in my ffxi fights. Unless the party wasn't that great. I played dnc and ya.... that was a job you couldn't just "watch" there was alot to do or can do in fights. sambas steps waltzes self skill chains I pickred the jobs that were melee/casters. Like rdm blu dnc ninja (i sucked at tanking i loved the back crit hitting ability though ^^) the more stuff I could do the happier I was. Oh and puppermaster you can't "just watch those either.
And to who said this " The bad AA implementation in FFXI encouraged bad gameplay by bad players."

AA didn't make ppl be bad players. It was all the PL, no one teaching ppl after a while, or ppl just not listening. PPl choose how involded to be in fights you have the option to sugeest them do more then just >.> (insert dirty joke) <.< or kick them for not being involed. I kicked a pld who watched tv instesd of focusing on the battle.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Well if you played that much and still couldn't get a handle on how involved FFXI's battle system was even with auto attack that doesn't say alot.

At the end of the day there will always be boring fights where people will just mash 1 or just let the auto attack roll that is never going to change so what difference does it make really.

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Seriously Alexia, quit it with the insults, especially when they are unfounded. Address arguments, don't attack people. You're being extremely immature.

I fully understand how people should have played. The point was, the AA system was designed poorly, so it encouraged bad players to continue playing badly. And those bad players were allowed to essentially do the wait > ws BS.

And my exact point is that AA wasn't necessary as it is now. All it does is swap waiting a few seconds with pressing your attack key 3-4 times. There isn't a point.

However, if they redesign it well and AA ends up being useful, then great. However, I don't see that happening. AA isn't useful in Aion, WoW, or Rift, which is the direction it seems they are taking combat, so it stands to reason it won't be useful in this either.

Kaeden you know what your saying isn't true. I'm a long time ffxi player also. AA let me melee as a rdm while focusing on my casting. AA let me be a dncer while focusing on curing ppl or doing my other abilities.

The only thing that made players bad players, was the tolerance of it. PPl tolerated bad players for sake of getting levels. Or no one taught ppl. Or ppl told others off for doing their abilities. Cuz it "lowered down time" or "was pointless" I played all my jobs to the fullest no matter if what I did had a point to it. Due to my ADD i can't jusy sit and watch. heck even between pulls I ran around the party. HECK, FUNNEST THING HAPPEN During a leveling party in east ron [s] Dark Ixion showed up inches away from our party. I in a wicked ADD moment disenganged and ran after it as I never saw it in game befor. XD Lucky I knew the ppl who knew I had ADD :P

But ya...... You have options to deal with ppl who become lazy. 1 help them out. 2 kick them. 3 ask them to do more stuff.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I always stayed active in my ffxi fights. Unless the party wasn't that great. I played dnc and ya.... that was a job you couldn't just "watch" there was alot to do or can do in fights. sambas steps waltzes self skill chains I pickred the jobs that were melee/casters. Like rdm blu dnc ninja (i sucked at tanking i loved the back crit hitting ability though ^^) the more stuff I could do the happier I was. Oh and puppermaster you can't "just watch those either.
And to who said this " The bad AA implementation in FFXI encouraged bad gameplay by bad players."

AA didn't make ppl be bad players. It was all the PL, no one teaching ppl after a while, or ppl just not listening. PPl choose how involded to be in fights you have the option to sugeest them do more then just >.> (insert dirty joke) <.< or kick them for not being involed. I kicked a pld who watched tv instesd of focusing on the battle.

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You just gave me something to do! off to level dancer!

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

You just gave me something to do! off to level dancer!

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O.O lol

Let's dancing!

(And high fives to anyone who gets that reference^^)

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Seriously Alexia, quit it with the insults, especially when they are unfounded. Address arguments, don't attack people. You're being extremely immature.

I fully understand how people should have played. The point was, the AA system was designed poorly, so it encouraged bad players to continue playing badly. And those bad players were allowed to essentially do the wait > ws BS.

And my exact point is that AA wasn't necessary as it is now. All it does is swap waiting a few seconds with pressing your attack key 3-4 times. There isn't a point.

However, if they redesign it well and AA ends up being useful, then great. However, I don't see that happening. AA isn't useful in Aion, WoW, or Rift, which is the direction it seems they are taking combat, so it stands to reason it won't be useful in this either.

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Immature you were the one who came in here like a bull in a China shop labelling people who want AA as lazy and that it makes bad players and everyone who disagrees is wrong.

Fine but don't try and play the innocent party and make me out to be a bad person because I called you out on some ridiculous comments you were making and lets not forget you gave me the FU for my trouble which is far worse than anything I said.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Immature you were the one who came in here like a bull in a China shop labelling people who want AA as lazy and that it makes bad players and everyone who disagrees is wrong.

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AAing is lazy. Prove me wrong. While you're AAing, you aren't doing anything else. Keep in mind, if you are doing other things, you aren't AAing.

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Fine but don't try and play the innocent party and make me out to be a bad person because I called you out on some ridiculous comments you were making and lets not forget you gave me the FU for my trouble which is far worse than anything I said.

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You made an unfounded personal attack at me. I was pointing out things I had personally witnessed in FFXI (people doing nothing but AAing and WSing), and you then made a ridiculous insult that because I noticed these things, I must do them myself and be a bad player. Sorry sister, that's called deflection by personal attack. You avoided the topic of discussion by personally attacking me and not addressing the topic at hand. A very telling and immature reaction.

So much whining and tears, this is funny. :o

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

I played DRK in FFXI and I was kept very busy with drain's, absorb's, ACC and Attack buffs, weapon skills and so on with auto attack. Really Kaedan it is just starting to sound like you were a bad player in FFXI if you just let auto attack do it's thing every battle.

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That's what I said and you replied with "FU Alexia." I also only said that because of the previous comments you made to everyone else about how they were wrong about wanting AA. I think you need to go back to post 108 and re-read everything because you obviously have a very different perception of what was said.

AA is lazy..... really? Come on you say you played FFXI for 6 years even with such a horrible and un-involved battle system. I think you are taking a very extreme one sided stance on this. Sure people can be lazy with AA, but they can be just as lazy mashing 1 or maybe not even doing that and doing nothing at all. AA or no AA is not going to change bad players, if you come across a player like that you have 2 choices either try to teach them better ways of using the system or if you really can't put up with it kick them from the party.

I would like AA mainly to allow me to socialise with my party and not have my DPS drop to 0 while I reply to a message. That doesn't make me lazy, I can be in a grind party for hours in FFXIV and hardly a word is spoken because people are to busy pressing all the buttons to keep everything going. If you stop to type something then your DPS stops so nobody talks much until we take a break. FFXI had a great social scene and people were generally very chatty, well in my experience anyway and for me FFXIV is not like that and I believe one of the main reasons for that is because the battle system is too involved.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

That's what I said and you replied with "FU Alexia."

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Yes, because you made an unfounded insult in an effort to deflect the conversation, or just to be mean-spirited. I'm honestly not sure.

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AA is lazy..... really? Come on you say you played FFXI for 6 years even with such a horrible and un-involved battle system. I think you are taking a very extreme one sided stance on this. Sure people can be lazy with AA, but they can be just as lazy mashing 1 or maybe not even doing that and doing nothing at all. AA or no AA is not going to change bad players, if you come across a player like that you have 2 choices either try to teach them better ways of using the system or if you really can't put up with it kick them from the party.

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Yeah, I played jobs that didn't rely on me AAing to get my TP up to do damage. The point is, if you were a job that was required to get TP to do your primary damage, it was extremely boring (with the exception of Sam and Dnc obviously... SE saw that it was boring people and added other ways to get TP). And people who wanted to be lazy were attracted to those jobs. It got progressively better as you leveled and as SE released expansions, but for a long period of time (and at low levels), it was just a mess.

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I would like AA mainly to allow me to socialise with my party and not have my DPS drop to 0 while I reply to a message. That doesn't make me lazy, I can be in a grind party for hours in FFXIV and hardly a word is spoken because people are to busy pressing all the buttons to keep everything going. If you stop to type something then your DPS stops so nobody talks much until we take a break. FFXI had a great social scene and people were generally very chatty, well in my experience anyway and for me FFXIV is not like that and I believe one of the main reasons for that is because the battle system is too involved.

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See, this is the sort of thing that is good for discussion.

Personally, this is a moot point for me. I use Vent, so I can communicate even with the fast pace of combat. And SE could implement voice chat so that even people without Vent could communicate. Sure, there would be people without mics, but as long as they can listen it works.

Also keep in mind that there are parties that are more "business than pleasure" sort of parties. They would rather focus on putting out as much damage as possible and not waste time talking about things that aren't pertinent to the battle.

Though your point is valid, and since they are definitely adding AA, you'll get your wish.

If you had read my earlier posts, I am ok with this, as long as it's not done as poorly as it was in FFXI. As long as they can keep battles interesting, I won't mind.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

But ya...... You have options to deal with ppl who become lazy. 1 help them out. 2 kick them. 3 ask them to do more stuff.

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QFT

Someone take a screenshot, Keith is agreeing with Kita lol.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

See, this is the sort of thing that is good for discussion.

Personally, this is a moot point for me. I use Vent, so I can communicate even with the fast pace of combat. And SE could implement voice chat so that even people without Vent could communicate. Sure, there would be people without mics, but as long as they can listen it works.

Also keep in mind that there are parties that are more "business than pleasure" sort of parties. They would rather focus on putting out as much damage as possible and not waste time talking about things that aren't pertinent to the battle.

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When Alexia said socialize I don't think they meant spouting orders, if a person without a mic is playing with a group of people with mics and SE did add a voice chat that person wouldn't be able to talk to you all without stopping to type.

As for the "business parties" these kinda parties are just not fun, we play a game for pleasure and fun not business and results. While results is nice to obtain I'd take a extremely fun party that got me 10k SP over a strict "less talk, more kirr" party that gets me 5 levels.

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

QFT

Someone take a screenshot, Keith is agreeing with Kita lol.

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I was a ruthless party leader :) My parties had no PL or you get kicked
if you was not doing your job you got kicked. if you was slowat your job you get kicked. I'm a nice person but very picky on ppl playing.
If you play game focus on the game not the hentei your watching as your poor preggers g/f you moved in with is doing everything.
:P

I also took time to try to help ppl. And to me a bad player was a lazy player. NOt a person who plays the game different.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I was a ruthless party leader :) My parties had no PL or you get kicked
if you was not doing your job you got kicked. if you was slowat your job you get kicked. I'm a nice person but very picky on ppl playing.
If you play game focus on the game not the hentei your watching as your poor preggers g/f you moved in with is doing everything.
:P

I also took time to try to help ppl. And to me a bad player was a lazy player. NOt a person who plays the game different.

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Evil! I was too nice, if a person wanted a PL I told them to deal with not having one. if they weren't doing their job I'd ask them to step it up or give them a small helpful hint without shoving it down their throat. If they were slow at their job I gave them pointers and pointed them in the right direction. Finally if they were just horribly geared I'd even take them into town and buy them new gear and send them on their merry way.

I considered a bad player as those who fail at one or all of the above and refuses to listen to any helpful advice and claims they are the greatest.

Example: in DCUO I was running a hard alert I was healer he was controller, the ENTIRE run nobody had power except that guy. When asked if he could supply a little power he told me to stfu because he knows how to play his role. If you don't know what a controller is, its a role thats main focus is supplying power and limiting the mobs the group fights with debuffs and stuns.

Every day FFXIV becomes more and more like WoW.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Every day FFXIV becomes more and more like WoW.

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oh, WoW invented autoattack? why I didnt know that......

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Originally Posted by Aion

oh, WoW invented autoattack? why I didnt know that......

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I don't think he's referring specifically to AA, but the direction the game is headed.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Every day FFXIV becomes more and more like WoW.

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People also say that its becoming XI-2, and well FFXI and WoW are nothing alike so i think its more a case of "people will b**** about anything"

you mean the game that was advertised.... remember ppl said ffxiv was to be casual friendly and less time consuming. I can list games that you might enjoy. How about a game that if yiu die your character is deleted if you are not raised.

anyway KD who is your character on dcuo? and server?

honestly why can't ppl just have fun on a game. Why do have to have petty drama?

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Originally Posted by Vicious

People also say that its becoming XI-2, and well FFXI and WoW are nothing alike so i think its more a case of "people will b**** about anything"

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I consider them to be rather similar, comparatively speaking.

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Originally Posted by Vicious

People also say that its becoming XI-2, and well FFXI and WoW are nothing alike so i think its more a case of "people will b**** about anything"

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Actually, seeing as how WoW was partially based off the FFXI playstyle (which was in turn similar to the EQ playstyle, which WoW also based itself off), there are similarities. Though over time, WoW destroyed itself by making bad decisions in an attempt to attract a wider demographic and alienated a large portion of gamers.

I think the point is, we don't want to see FFXI-2 and we don't want to see FF: the WoW Chronicles. They are not mutually exclusive man.

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Originally Posted by Sojiro

I supported the idea to implement a toggle for aggro indicators. I'm not claiming that I did a damned thing and want peoples thanks.....

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I find the timing of the dev post very suspicious, and very much in line with my recent posts. I also find it interesting that it was posted somewhere that BelgianRofl has yet to post - Battle Environments.

Believe what you want, but that BelgianRofl character has a reputation with the developers. Unfortunately, it'd be suicide for them to reply in any of my threads or mention me at all.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

you mean the game that was advertised.... remember ppl said ffxiv was to be casual friendly and less time consuming. I can list games that you might enjoy. How about a game that if yiu die your character is deleted if you are not raised.

anyway KD who is your character on dcuo? and server?

honestly why can't ppl just have fun on a game. Why do have to have petty drama?

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Kanto Dragoon 30 Nature Healer
Keith Dragoon 30 Mental Controller
Eternal Pain 30 Ice Tank

All on Death and Glory

Drama is part of the gaming community, whatever a developer does there will be throws who throw glitter and confetti at their feet for changes and those who spit on idea of said changes. No matter what the outcome people will cry, complain and blame it on the opposing "team" for whining.

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

I find the timing of the dev post very suspicious, and very much in line with my recent posts. I also find it interesting that it was posted somewhere that BelgianRofl has yet to post - Battle Environments.

Believe what you want, but that BelgianRofl character has a reputation with the developers. Unfortunately, it'd be suicide for them to reply in any of my threads or mention me at all.

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I love you! lmao

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Originally Posted by Aion

oh, WoW invented autoattack? why I didnt know that......

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Doesn't matter who invented it. WoW made it known to the wide audience, other games did not. That's what matters.

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

Kanto Dragoon 30 Nature Healer
Keith Dragoon 30 Mental Controller
Eternal Pain 30 Ice Tank

All on Death and Glory

Drama is part of the gaming community, whatever a developer does there will be throws who throw glitter and confetti at their feet for changes and those who spit on idea of said changes. No matter what the outcome people will cry, complain and blame it on the opposing "team" for whining.



I love you! lmao

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no way i think i read some your posts ... not saying who i post as.......

Dunno. I don't like the steps backward generally.. :/ It will be easier to resolve but not a 'brave' choise imo. In any case, i'll wait and see to judge.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Doesn't matter who invented it. WoW made it known to the wide audience, other games did not. That's what matters.

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erm...Im sorry but here in Asia all the MMORPG(Korean) have autoattack....I dunno about western MMORPG...

I'm so excited about this, I might actually come back.
But there is one problem still...
No one uses the party search feature because its not effective as currently designed.

How has this not been brought up yet lol.
People will still be walking around soloing just because they cant find a party with that search feature as it is right now ;/