So that 7.1 msq...

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

What I am most worried about with the whole "key" stuff and hints they've dropped so far, is 8.0 is going to be another "visit a new shard" patch when we still have plenty of map to uncover here in Eorzea. Now, don't get me wrong, I loved Shadowbringers and the new lands we got, but I don't want this to be a crutch they keep falling back to.

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Definitely my biggest worry as well.

It's weird, I remember thinking at some point how cool it would be to visit the other shards, maybe even all of them. But the more it sat with me the less I desired it: it feels like giving up on the world our characters (both MC and Scions) are from. I want to see more of The Source, how its future is shaping up, its towns/groups/cultures adapting, its secrets discovered, etc. The idea of simply picking up some key and using it to just reset the world state every expansion to visit a new shard sounds incredibly dull to me. I'm sure they could do something cool with it but I can't shake this fear that if they do go down that route it's essentially akin to soft retiring a show and just slapping filler seasons until it's no longer profitable.

I think something that really needs to happen in the coming patches is the Alexandrians being made to reckon not just with how wrong and unsustainable their way of life is, but also the fact that Sphene wasn't the benevolent ruler they thought her to be. Something I've seen players get upset over is that Wuk Lamat attends Sphene's funeral and tries to comfort the grieving Alexandrians despite the atrocities she committed against Tuliyollal. On the one hand, I think it makes sense for Wuk Lamat to take a soft approach with them from a pragmatic perspective, as immediately confronting them with the fact that Sphene was a war criminal is probably just going to set back diplomatic efforts, but this isn't the way it's framed within the story. Instead, Wuk Lamat is shown to be doing this because she feels guilty over killing their leader (I should clarify that I think this is more a flaw of Dawntrail's writing as a whole than of Wuk Lamat as a character). I guess it makes sense that she would feel for Sphene considering that she was forced to be evil by her programming rather than of her own free will, but at the end of the day, this is still someone who committed atrocities against Wuk Lamat's people. The feelings of the Alexandrians shouldn't be prioritized over justice for Tuliyollal indefinitely.

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Originally Posted by LisseyCrowe

Definitely my biggest worry as well.

It's weird, I remember thinking at some point how cool it would be to visit the other shards, maybe even all of them. But the more it sat with me the less I desired it: it feels like giving up on the world our characters (both MC and Scions) are from. I want to see more of The Source, how its future is shaping up, its towns/groups/cultures adapting, its secrets discovered, etc. The idea of simply picking up some key and using it to just reset the world state every expansion to visit a new shard sounds incredibly dull to me. I'm sure they could do something cool with it but I can't shake this fear that if they do go down that route it's essentially akin to soft retiring a show and just slapping filler seasons until it's no longer profitable.

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Endwalker and on has been them trying to speedrun as much of the established lore as they could for no apparent reason. 6.0 rushed through Garlemald, Sharlayan, Thavnair, the moon, and even the past while also establishing that the other civilizations in the universe had either wiped themselves out or were extinguished by Meteion. The MSQ in 6.1 and on rushed through the Bounty and 13th while also going through various other locations in the form of dungeons(variants and normal) and killing everything related to the Twelve. With 7.0 having now crossed off two more continents and another shard, we're left with Ilsabard's cloud donut, Meracydia, Koshu, and the 3 remaining shards assuming we don't just bounce from one to the next during the rest of the patch cycle. It's been such a colossal waste of potential and only makes it harder for them going forward, so I don't get why it happened.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Endwalker and on has been them trying to speedrun as much of the established lore as they could for no apparent reason. 6.0 rushed through Garlemald, Sharlayan, Thavnair, the moon, and even the past while also establishing that the other civilizations in the universe had either wiped themselves out or were extinguished by Meteion. The MSQ in 6.1 and on rushed through the Bounty and 13th while also going through various other locations in the form of dungeons(variants and normal) and killing everything related to the Twelve. With 7.0 having now crossed off two more continents and another shard, we're left with Ilsabard's cloud donut, Meracydia, Koshu, and the 3 remaining shards assuming we don't just bounce from one to the next during the rest of the patch cycle. It's been such a colossal waste of potential and only makes it harder for them going forward, so I don't get why it happened.

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Endwalker was the fault of them trying to capitalize on Shadowbringers' success and keeping the new playerbase hyped up for the big epic conclusion, which honestly made most of it fall flat and just removed so much myctical and mysterious stuff from the world.

When it comes to dawntrail, the current writers and lore consultant are just... not that good. They don't really know how to deliver a compelling and satisfying story so they just resort to blasting us with repeated dialogue and big huge giga impactful (please care about what's happening) events that end up not amounting to anything or straight up devaluing previous story beats, instead of giving us something to care about.

I was very critical of 7.0 and now that I have done 7.1: it's better then 7.0. Now don't get me wrong, it's still pretty bad, and the bar is still pretty much non-existent. If 7.0's story is Yoshi-P and the devs forgetting to even bring the bar, then with 7.1's story they finally did bring the bar, proceeded to put it flat on the ground, and are now just motioning for it to "Go up" in complete silence and hope it magically starts fucking levitating.

Dungeon was good. But yeah still don't really care much for what we got story wise, and given how 7.1 ended I don't really expect much from 7.2 currently that isn't just players going "yeah it was obvious this was going to happen" the entire time.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Endwalker and on has been them trying to speedrun as much of the established lore as they could for no apparent reason. 6.0 rushed through Garlemald, Sharlayan, Thavnair, the moon, and even the past while also establishing that the other civilizations in the universe had either wiped themselves out or were extinguished by Meteion. The MSQ in 6.1 and on rushed through the Bounty and 13th while also going through various other locations in the form of dungeons(variants and normal) and killing everything related to the Twelve. With 7.0 having now crossed off two more continents and another shard, we're left with Ilsabard's cloud donut, Meracydia, Koshu, and the 3 remaining shards assuming we don't just bounce from one to the next during the rest of the patch cycle. It's been such a colossal waste of potential and only makes it harder for them going forward, so I don't get why it happened.

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I really wish they could go back and expand upon locations in future expansions. Hingashi is a prime example of that. We have access to Kugane, but haven't seen much beyond that other than Mount Rokkon, and we certainly have not had access to Bukyo.

My fear is that next expansion is going to be speedrunning two locations yet again (possibly Meracydia since it was on Emet's list, and another shard, since Y'shtola basically looked at the camera and said "as soon as you're done with the patches we're gonna be trying out your artifact") instead of focusing on a single place with a compelling story.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

What I am most worried about with the whole "key" stuff and hints they've dropped so far, is 8.0 is going to be another "visit a new shard" patch when we still have plenty of map to uncover here in Eorzea. Now, don't get me wrong, I loved Shadowbringers and the new lands we got, but I don't want this to be a crutch they keep falling back to.

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You reminded me how I keep hoping they bring back the West Shroud somehow someday.

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Originally Posted by MediocreIndigo

I think something that really needs to happen in the coming patches is the Alexandrians being made to reckon not just with how wrong and unsustainable their way of life is, but also the fact that Sphene wasn't the benevolent ruler they thought her to be. Something I've seen players get upset over is that Wuk Lamat attends Sphene's funeral and tries to comfort the grieving Alexandrians despite the atrocities she committed against Tuliyollal. On the one hand, I think it makes sense for Wuk Lamat to take a soft approach with them from a pragmatic perspective, as immediately confronting them with the fact that Sphene was a war criminal is probably just going to set back diplomatic efforts, but this isn't the way it's framed within the story. Instead, Wuk Lamat is shown to be doing this because she feels guilty over killing their leader (I should clarify that I think this is more a flaw of Dawntrail's writing as a whole than of Wuk Lamat as a character). I guess it makes sense that she would feel for Sphene considering that she was forced to be evil by her programming rather than of her own free will, but at the end of the day, this is still someone who committed atrocities against Wuk Lamat's people. The feelings of the Alexandrians shouldn't be prioritized over justice for Tuliyollal indefinitely.

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Something I'd like to see is Wuk Lamat feeling conflicted about Sphene. Not just sadness and guilt, but also anger. This was someone responsible for taking her people and family from her. But she also saw glimpses of the "real" Sphene under the programming. How does she make sense of this?

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Originally Posted by StormChase

Something I'd like to see is Wuk Lamat feeling conflicted about Sphene. Not just sadness and guilt, but also anger. This was someone responsible for taking her people and family from her. But she also saw glimpses of the "real" Sphene under the programming. How does she make sense of this?

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Welcome to FFXIV. As soon as someone reveals their sob story or motivations you have to immediately forget about all the bad things that they've done.

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Originally Posted by StormChase

Something I'd like to see is Wuk Lamat feeling conflicted about Sphene. Not just sadness and guilt, but also anger. This was someone responsible for taking her people and family from her. But she also saw glimpses of the "real" Sphene under the programming. How does she make sense of this?

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Maybe in the coming patches when Wuk Lamat meets what I'm guessing is the real Sphene (not the AI or the imposter), we'll get to see her feel awkward around her because of the things AI Sphene did, but IDK if they'll go that route.

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Originally Posted by MediocreIndigo

Maybe in the coming patches when Wuk Lamat meets what I'm guessing is the real Sphene (not the AI or the imposter), we'll get to see her feel awkward around her because of the things AI Sphene did, but IDK if they'll go that route.

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I'm sure Ghost Sphene will somehow remember everything that happened with AI Sphene, there'll be a scene of her crying and apologizing, and Wuk will hug her and say that they've always been friends and always will be. You shouldn't be thinking about what would happen logically or how anyone with a modicum of intelligence would act, because this isn't that kind of story anymore.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

I'm sure Ghost Sphene will somehow remember everything that happened with AI Sphene, there'll be a scene of her crying and apologizing, and Wuk will hug her and say that they've always been friends and always will be. You shouldn't be thinking about what would happen logically or how anyone with a modicum of intelligence would act, because this isn't that kind of story anymore.

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I can't say my expectations are very high, but they're not that low.

I didn't mind 7.1 actually but... FOUR abandoned/adopted kids stories in one expansion? That *might* be a bit much.

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Originally Posted by Pricia

I didn't mind 7.1 actually but... FOUR abandoned/adopted kids stories in one expansion? That *might* be a bit much.

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Now that you point it out, it is weird, isn't it? Is there even a single happy family in Dawntrail? It's all either both parents dead, one parent dead/missing, one adopted parent, and I guess evil parent(s) for Bakool Ja Ja? I don't think there's any meaning to it, but ... I dunno, I guess like you said, it's a much at some point.

Anyone wanna bet if the raid series is going to teach us how the comic book villain wizard lizard had mommy issues all along?

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Originally Posted by RinaB

I'm not even sure what I played through and what the point was....whatever at least I got a new dungeon.

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Coming from someone who actually liked the 7.0 story. 7.1 was... ok, nothing bad, but nothing special. I liked the new dungeon, the last boss was very fun! I thought Koana was just dumb and very out of character. I like Goolol Ja and Erenville, they were the highlight of the patch. Beside that, nothing very interesting.

I do see it as a nice start to building on the characters' stories and making their personalitie more deep, but at the same time, they are very weird about it. As seen with Koana.

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

Coming from someone who actually liked the 7.0 story. 7.1 was... ok, nothing bad, but nothing special. I liked the new dungeon, the last boss was very fun! I thought Koana was just dumb and very out of character. I like Goolol Ja and Erenville, they were the highlight of the patch. Beside that, nothing very interesting.

I do see it as a nice start to building on the characters' stories and making their personalitie more deep, but at the same time, they are very weird about it. As seen with Koana.

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I think it was funny how quickly Koana became attached to the rroneek.

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Originally Posted by MediocreIndigo

I think it was funny how quickly Koana became attached to the rroneek.

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Koana: "I'm a leader, and leaders are supposed to let themselves die to save an animal even when it's obvious that we're both going to die if I just stand there in between the two beasts."

In my opinion, the only reason why the 7.1 MSQ was better than the 7.0 MSQ is because of 2 things:
1) It's shorter, therefore the flaws in the writing are not as evident.
2) Since it's shorter, the pacing was a bit better.

Wuk Lamat is less "annoying" because she's not the one suffering from the writing's flaws the most this time around.
BUT... the flaws are still there, just as much as they were there in 7.0.

The story structure is all over the place, the script quality is low, characters make illogical decisions, the writing is cheesy and contrived, and plot points are solved within minutes.

Story structure:
The entire segment about Zoraal Ja, Gulool Ja and his mother seemed so backwards to me. This felt like something that should have been a theme in 7.0. From what I've heard, 7.1 was supposed to give Zoraal Ja a little more depth retroactively, but in my opinion he as a character still feels as shallow as he did before. Zoraal Ja is a character with lots of interesting concepts, but the execution leaves lots to be desired.

Again, story structure and cheesy, illogical, contrived writing:
Then we have a shift and Koana is supposed to get his arc. They do this by... having him, a leader carrying the responsibility for an entire nation on his back, throw himself in front of a rroneek without anyone ever calling him out for how stupid and reckless this was. Isn't he supposed to be the smart guy?
Soon after, we find out that once upon a time there was a baby that was left behind because his parents went to fight off a big beast, and of course Koana immediately knew it was him. That's it. Arc done.

I could say more about the story structure and how they treated the Wuk Lamat/Zoraal Ja thing but lots of it goes back to 7.0 and I don't have it in me.

If these are the standards we're having to get used to now, I extremely worried about what this means for 8.0.

The thing I hate most about the current MSQ is the fact that it's so juvenile, or stupidly written and simplistic at points, but then they'll throw in some dark element or plot point as if to cover their asses. This is why you have people say, "SEE?! The story still has dark moments!! EUGENICS DEAD BABY CAVE!". It feels like a quota now, rather than anything that lends itself to the setting as a whole. It's clumsy and mismatched, and it feels completely cynical.

I guess this is what happens when someone who wrote beast tribes gets put in charge of the main scenario. This needs to change, I have no faith in the current direction the story is going and it's affecting my ability to enjoy the rest of the game. There are options for why you cancelled your sub, and I want there to be an option for "The quality is not up to standard", or a way to communicate specific points.. because I would absolutely pin this all on the MSQ's writing for me.

When you bank so hard on being THE story MMO, and have roleplayers making their own fun in your world, ruining the story affects things more than people may think.

One thing I find hilarious is that talking to Wuk Lamat after that scene where Zoraal Ja is told that Gulool Ja is his child and she tells you that he always treated her so well before the rite of succession.

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Wuk Lamat: ...You may find it hard to believe, but until the rite of succession, Zoraal Ja was a good brother to me. Always. And I thought that Papa was the best father anyone could ask for.
Wuk Lamat: I don't want to think the time we spent together as a family was a lie. But by the same token, the bitterness my brother harbored was all too real...

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There was hardly anything that happened over the course of the msq that ever suggested that. Especially from Zoraal Ja.

Edit: Admittedly, my frustrations come from the fact they are still trying to give him something after his death. The time to try and give him any outstanding characteristic is gone now with this death.

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Originally Posted by Mainasu

The thing I hate most about the current MSQ is the fact that it's so juvenile, or stupidly written and simplistic at points, but then they'll throw in some dark element or plot point as if to cover their asses. This is why you have people say, "SEE?! The story still has dark moments!! EUGENICS DEAD BABY CAVE!". It feels like a quota now, rather than anything that lends itself to the setting as a whole. It's clumsy and mismatched, and it feels completely cynical.

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"Don't you get it, the kid is confused about death and none of the adults can help him understand because they too can't explain it! And we're going to show this by just dragging the scene on forever as the kid (that's secretly not a kid but a full-on adult because no kid would ever talk like he did) just keeps insisting over and over and over and doesn't it tug at your heartstrings? Doesn't it make you feel like maybe, you didn't do the right thing?". Also baby Lizard's mom was kind of a nobody that just happened to be there and had it down bad for Zoraal Ja. Okay! Time to go on a wacky adventure with Koana as we defend cows with the power of friendship!

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Originally Posted by GartredZW

Koana: "I'm a leader, and leaders are supposed to let themselves die to save an animal even when it's obvious that we're both going to die if I just stand there in between the two beasts."

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These writers are something else. After 7.0 I was hoping that they'd shove Wuk Lamat somewhere gone and give Koana the sidekick arc but now I don't want to see either of them. It's like every character they touch turns into an obnoxious moron with parental issues. The scions were reduced to decorations because of Wuk but it turns out that was actually a blessing, since they didn't completely lose their personalities. Yet.

At least this patch shows it's not that Wuk Lamat is particularly stupid and naive. It's just making characters really stupid and naive is the only way the current writers know to try making them seem like good natured role models.

The biggest problem I have now is I don't hate or love FFXIV, I am completely indifferent. I truly do not care about these characters in 7.0 and the Scions have been reduced to background players and I really don't care what they are doing either. The writing is just so damn stupid as they try to appeal to a younger audience, that I can't bother investing.