Are we destroying "our own" game?

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Originally Posted by Oku-1

Wrong on literally both counts lol

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You need to stop looking at simply monthly peaks.

25 days out from early access Endwalker was peaking at around 62k

25 days out from early access DT is peaking at around 50k-55k

Official release of EW saw a fall from 95k to 86k, just under 10k
Official release of DT saw a fall from 92k to 72k, right at 20k

DT yesterday peaked at 46k yesterday. Endwalker took until mid Jan to get that low.

Yeah, because we log in every day to redo MSQ, right? Lower/Higher numbers have nothing to do with msq; it has to do with the mmo part of the game, everything outside of msq.

The reality is that square enix refuses to give casuals something to do after msq until the end of the X.3 patches.

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Originally Posted by Rekh

Yeah, because we log in every day to redo MSQ, right? Lower/Higher numbers have nothing to do with msq; it has to do with the mmo part of the game, everything outside of msq.

The reality is that square enix refuses to give casuals something to do after msq until the end of the X.3 patches.

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The game has a lot of plot watchers who are subbed only for expansion launches and then they quit until the next one.

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Originally Posted by sharknado

The game has a lot of plot watchers who are subbed only for expansion launches and then they quit until the next one.

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I have a friend who does that. THen they wait like a year and a half, and do patches 1 to 3, and then quit until the next expansion and do the MSQ like that.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I think the only thing I'd like to add to this thread is that I wouldn't count or trust content creators more than anyone else in game, forum or friend to give an honest opinion about the game. Quite the contrary in fact, they're in the business of keeping conversations open and your eyes on their stream or youtube videos for profit, so if its interesting or provocative to say a game is bad, failing or whatever, they are likely to jump on the trend for views and engagement.

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Thank you, but I haven't forgotten why streamers stream. I'd appreciate if we can ground the context here properly. Zepla and Preach are well known for enjoying the MSQ in prior expansions, have directly interviewed Yoshi P himself, and are now both hitting the same beats of dissatisfaction with the story, along with a huge blanket of unhappiness laying over the playerbase in result of the DT MSQ, I think it is safe to conclude there's a bit of consistency there with their opinions.

Also on the note of Preach, that man isn't jumping on hate bandwagons, he dropped WoW for a reason. Man won't play what he isn't interested in. He gave an extremely fair review at the end of his playthrough that doesn't just sum up to "DT bad" so what trend is he jumping on?

"Streamers gonna stream" is just ringing massive cop out response to me.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

You need to stop looking at simply monthly peaks.

25 days out from early access Endwalker was peaking at around 62k

25 days out from early access DT is peaking at around 50k-55k

Official release of EW saw a fall from 95k to 86k, just under 10k
Official release of DT saw a fall from 92k to 72k, right at 20k

DT yesterday peaked at 46k yesterday. Endwalker took until mid Jan to get that low.

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Originally Posted by Oku-1

Steam Charts has stayed consistently representative of the wider playerbase in terms of growth and fall-off trends and updates every few minutes off of the steam concurrent player counter. We can't get true full-playerbase numbers and likely never will but for getting an idea of what the growth trends are you can't get much better without having access to Square Enix data directly.

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Endwalker, end of an arc building for 10 years
Game being hyped by streamers right before release
WoW Shadowlands existing

Dawntrail being an ARR like expansion with a slow build up and talk to Wuk Lamat (pray return to the waking sands btw) that annoyed more than one.
New WoW expansion coming soon, after all the praise Dragonflight got...
Game not that much hyped by streamers (and a bald man) as before.

Yup, you can't trust steam charts before there's so many outside factors to take into account than just reading numbers.

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Originally Posted by Ruris

Thank you, but I haven't forgotten why streamers stream. I'd appreciate if we can ground the context here properly. Zepla and Preach are well known for enjoying the MSQ in prior expansions, have directly interviewed Yoshi P himself, and are now both hitting the same beats of dissatisfaction with the story, along with a huge blanket of unhappiness laying over the playerbase in result of the DT MSQ, I think it is safe to conclude there's a bit of consistency there with their opinions.

Also on the note of Preach, that man isn't jumping on hate bandwagons, he dropped WoW for a reason. Man won't play what he isn't interested in. He gave an extremely fair review at the end of his playthrough that doesn't just sum up to "DT bad" so what trend is he jumping on?

"Streamers gonna stream" is just ringing massive cop out response to me.

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Streamers are indeed are gonna stream, but my point is that you shouldn't take their word as gospel. They're not professional game critics or reviewers, they're just another guy who happens to be really good at entertaining.

I don't know why we are focusing so hard on Preach here, but I'm kind of tired of people using streamers or influencers to measure the success of an expansion.

As a huge story and lore enjoyer myself, I feel like people attribute way too much to an expansions story alone, whilst it is the most marketed aspect of the expansion (for now) it's so much more than just the story itself.
It's the story that is still coming, all the content (new field instance, cosmic exploration, new allied socities, raids [normal, alliance, savage and ultimate + new variant dungeons] new limited job (beastmaster, + updates to bluemage) (forgive me If I forgot to mention anything).

I didn't enjoy the story of Dawntrail much either for various reasons (not liking wuk much, story pacing, bland voice acting all around), but there is still many redeeming qualities like how they designed the new areas, the new music following them and foremost (IMO) the new "difficulty" level they chose for the dungeons/trials and normal raids.

The things I liked and disliked are all very subjective to myself. People may share the same opinion, or they may not, and thats perfectly fair and valid.
Saying that "The players are ""destroying"" the game they like/d" feels like a huge stretch to me. Just because you see discourse going around and being poorly handled by those involved it doesn't mean that people actually hate the game or wanna quit it over the story being poorly written, normal raiding content (dungeons etc.) being too hard. You are not forced to do anything for more than once in this game, you can skip the story If you don't like playing through it, you can go through dungeons with trusts (even repeatedly) and you don't need to do leveling dungeons cause you can just do overworld FATE's instead.
Now, with that being sad, I don't want to say "You are not allowed to complain about / criticize something since in the end everything is optional! (except for unskippable cutscenes)" I'd much rather want to say, in one of Dawntrails own (IMO kind of badly written) morals:

Try and find common ground, show understanding to those who are trying to give valid criticism (not transphobes or racists) on all sides. Not everyone will feel the same way you do about everything this expansion entails, but rather than dividing people over things they disliked, be open, let everyone say their pieces and just leave it at that at best. You don't have to like their criticism, but trying to invalidate it while
1. People paid for this product
2. People are allowed to have an opinion on a game/story they care about/liked beforehand
Leaves such a sour taste in my mouth personally at least.

.

1/2

2/2 (had to split cause way too long apparently)

One of the reasons why people go and pull streamers/youtubers/influencers opinions into this is because theres many people (not just here) who invalidate criticism or dislike of certain things and put the "you're a transphobe/racist" tag on it. I don't wanna say that theres none of those people around, there is definitely plenty, but that shouldn't mean any criticism towards, for example (the most prominent I could think of right now), Wuk's character or her voice acting/direction is because people dislike Sena / dislike her being a transwoman

What I wanna say is / TL;DR, personally, I think it is pretty much too early to say "man this expansion SUCKS!!!!" and go at each others throat because of it. The story =/= the whole expansion experience.
Saying that the story and whats associated with it "is bad" shouldn't be as big of an issue as it currently is in the eyes of many. Having normal discussions over points of dislike/like should be encouraged instead of "no you're wrong", "you are being racist/transphobic" (unless they actually blatantly are obvsly).

People who steer the discourse into this kind of direction and at the same time question "why has the community become like this" are a big part of the issue, on all sides, whilst it would be SO simple to avoid that by just being decent to one another.

Imo its important to voice your Displeasure, its a clear Downgrade of a MSQ we got. As a MSQ Person with some endgame playing with friends, 7.0 is the most Disappointing MSQ we had so far even ARR for its Time was better in Terms of being a "Final fantasy" Story a ok/Decent Good vs. Evil plot with good Set up for the future.
in Dawntrail until level 96 nothing is really Happening there is no tension there is no Suspense about the so Called Fierce "Competition" its Side Quest level of things, make Food, catch a Alpaka, help repair a Boat and crops to Grow, the "Antagonist" Bakool ja ja only is one in the first 2 Levels, there was Zero things that could maybe hint at that Wuk might lose the "competition" since her brother was always on her side anyway.
The content itself Dungeons trials, 8 mann Raid seems very Good so that kinda saves it. but all in all a 6/10 overall MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Akari-skts

Browsing through the forum here and watching Youtube videos I clearly see how people seem super unhappy with the new Expansion.
Playing the game for myself and also in my fc and social groups I did not experience that feedback for quite a while.
I never checked this froum in the past and just came here recently to look for the "community voice" but.. is it really that bad? Are people that mad about DT or was it always like that in the forum? Maybe someone that observed the forum for a few years can tell me.

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Generally speaking discussions about media online tend towards the negative, because people are more likely to post about it online if they've got something they want to bitch about.

This forum is no exception, and honestly has a reputation everywhere else as the place to be if you hate the game you can't stop playing.

Case in point:

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Originally Posted by Isala

Can't speak for the rest of everyone else, but the only reason I'm posting here is because I hit a point with DT where I was like "This is absolutely dog water!

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Originally Posted by cutestfox

Yep. I used to proudly go on about how I'm above posting on the forums and I've never had to come here since the game came out
So much for that!

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People who actually enjoy DT are too busy playing it.

I'm just here cause I'm a whore for drama :)

The playerbase has been destroying this game since ARR it's nothing new at this point. Either deal with it or go to another MMO or play another game. I've decided to deal with it until another MMO comes out

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Originally Posted by Akari-skts

I personally think DT is fine story wise.. sure it may not be peak epic but I feel like it is quite good. I was entertained especcially for the last part of it.

The content imo is great. It is more entertaining than in the past and we now even can wipe here and there, which is often funny. People are saying it is too hard but idk isnt it exciting to have a look at the boss while doing roulettes? (talking about dungeons)

For the raids it is kind of the same. I dont feel like they are particulary harder than - for example - ShB Normal Raids?

Are here any people that actually enjoy the game? And if not.. where are they? I've heard player counts are looking good, and I tbh can imagine why.

It makes me kind of sad hearing all that stuff about "dungeons too hard for me" "raids too easy for me" "story is bad" "bring back stormblood", I have the feeling people are more and more driven into the mindset "Well if everyone says it is bad.. then it must be bad!" until they actually feel that way.

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FFXIV players seem to be in two camps:
Ones that like Stormblood, didn't like anything after it.
Ones that didn't like Stormblood, and have liked HW better, and Shadowbringers/Endwalker being better.

Like you can be honest, there is no reason to hate any specific part of the game, but I put DT on par with ARR in terms of story. It's an okay story, but it doesn't really pique my interest until the entire 7 mcguffin quest was done. I literately felt like I was doing the level 30 "Tales from the Tidus Slayer" quest again, you know the part of ARR that everyone complains about because of the fetch-quest shopping list.

What DT needed was a better plot hook. I feel we were given a plot bait-and-switch because we see a hint with Krile during EW, but Erenville says absolutely nothing about wanting to go back home. We're basically just introduced to Wuk Lamat in a "Hello little buddy, I need to get some friends-I-have-never-met-at-all-and-have-no-connection-to-the-country to help me win an unelected leadership position of said country"

Um... yeah. There was no reason to bring Wuk Lamat into the post EW story except to do the Seasickness jokes immediately off the boat. Who is this Lion lady, and why am I being brought into this silly plot?

To to be perfectly blunt, the game really dropped the ball a few times. Why are we doing a "cooking contest" but not actually doing the cooking, if our WoL is already a level 90 Culinarian. It's stuff like this that makes me shake my head and ask why crafting jobs are completely missing from the MSQ of the game. If you have the right crafter, instead of playing fetch quest, why not just craft the thing needed on the spot? Why not have a botanist actually "gather" materials. Like if you're going to include this stuff in the MSQ, actually pop an optional "job quest" for the player to side-step fetch quests. But just the same, the job quests haven't been particularly amazing since they stopped being job-centric. While I understand why maybe they do this, it makes it feel like "crafting" and "gathering" jobs just end at level 70, and then you're just being a charity thereafter. The most interesting "story" stuff involving crafting are actually the tribe quests, and even then, there is nothing job-specific and it feels like the alchemist and the goldsmith are tasked with making the same item which makes no sense at all.

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Originally Posted by Akari-skts

I have the feeling people are more and more driven into the mindset "Well if everyone says it is bad.. then it must be bad!" until they actually feel that way.

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I recommend asking yourself why you find it so hard to believe that other people would form opinions that are different than yours. People have different opinions on the same thing all the time, especially when it comes to art. Different lived experiences and different preferences lead to different interpretations. People having different opinions is not a new or weird phenomenon that needs a theory to explain it; it is so common as to be banal.

Imagine caring what streamers think.

New expansion releases > people complain > complaints die down as expansion hype dies down > new expansion is announced > new expansion releases > people complain. . .

It just feels like there is a noticeable lack of quality with the execution of this expansion.

The story felt weird. While the story isn't always perfect, it at least feels somewhat cohesive and this plot is all over the place, characters aren't acting like themselves, very wild pacing throughout the whole thing (which isn't particularly new but for some reason really stands out this time). Some of the voiced lines sounded lower quality than other voiced lines, and this isn't a complaint about the voice acting, it's about the sound mixing/editing. Some of our new armors just did away with worrying about tails/ears at all when historically it felt like they at least tried, even if they were discriminatory to a third of their races.

For a company and team that has so prided themselves on their quality and care, this expansion just feels so incomplete and unpolished. I'm wondering if the graphics overhaul was maybe more work than they anticipated and maybe that's why it feels this way.

Or maybe I'm wrong!

In regards to who is "destroying" the game? Well, I don't think there is an easy answer for that. FF MMO's tend to follow non-standard MMO structures, for better and for worse.

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Originally Posted by FuturePastNow

Imagine caring what streamers think.

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What they think carries more weight than what we think.

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Originally Posted by AddictedToWitches

New expansion releases > people complain > complaints die down as expansion hype dies down > new expansion is announced > new expansion releases > people complain. . .

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Not sure what this comment is trying to prove.

Feedback is great, it's pretty much the opposite of destroying the game,but we have to just hope that SE filters through all that and picks the good ones

People don't usually come on the official forum to say "great job!" They come here to complain, so it's going to make the feedback on pretty much anything look largely negative.

Dawntrail has its issues but on the whole I'd say it's been a pretty good expansion so far.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

People don't usually come on the official forum to say "great job!" They come here to complain, so it's going to make the feedback on pretty much anything look largely negative.

Dawntrail has its issues but on the whole I'd say it's been a pretty good expansion so far.

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I agree. I neither hate it or extremely love it, it was good though.

as players, we cannot really "destroy" the game. thats up to SE to do that. and they are extremely capable of that without our help

I've leveled RPR to 98 and AST to 94 and these skills are a joke. The story I like, the gameplay bores me to tears. The dungeons are a nice surprise but all I do is walk from cutscene to cutscene being unengaged by what counts as "gameplay" outside of group content. Jobs at this point are abysmal.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

I've leveled RPR to 98 and AST to 94 and these skills are a joke. The story I like, the gameplay bores me to tears. The dungeons are a nice surprise but all I do is walk from cutscene to cutscene being unengaged by what counts as "gameplay" outside of group content. Jobs at this point are abysmal.

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To be fair, that's what the MSQ experience has always been. It does need help now though. I think the length of DT's story really highlighted that the actual experience of playing the game until end game isn't all that fun.

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Originally Posted by angienessyo

To be fair, that's what the MSQ experience has always been. It does need help now though. I think the length of DT's story really highlighted that the actual experience of playing the game until end game isn't all that fun.

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That's true but with jobs being this bland it's not helping. lol And with each lvl up I'm more disappointed than excited. I dunno, man.

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Originally Posted by FuwafuwaMii

Nah. Heavensward had terrible raids, terrible encounters and terrible class balance. Some classes were considered griefing if you brought them to a PF team. HW was definitely the worst expansion they brought, but it was also the first one, and they learned from their mistakes. Go back to those times on this forum, and you'll see some dramatic wails from people.

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That is revisionist in of itself. EW had more "forbidden jobs" in the pf during Abyssos than all of HW. You can see for yourself- while limited, all data we have on pf from HW logs will corroborate what I'm saying. 3.0 and 3.1 balance was pretty abysmal for AST and, to a lesser extent, MCH... but it's as abysmal right now for BLM and all the non-PCT ranged jobs.
And HW has some of the most original encounter ideas in this game- some of which became standard.
- A5S interacting with the arena to defeat the boss;
- A6S had a unique add phase in Brawler and the fight being made of 4 difficult minibosses was very unique;
- A7S had a different type of arena interaction with the spikes and the giant balls going around as you fought the boss;
- A8S brought Gavel, the first "resolve a ton of different debuffs in order depending on role" mechanic that became a staple of XIV Savage encounters;
- A10S had another different form of arena interaction, with people triggering traps that interacted with the players and the boss;
- A11S was the first Active Time Maneuver in the game, and A12S had the whole cutscene playing in the background;
- Sophia had the scales mechanic;
- Zurvan had the first cinematic transition of its type (where you can't move and just watch the transition).

I can't believe people think that Midas, Lamebrix Strikebocks and Cruise Chaser and Thordan/Sephirot/Sophia EX are "terrible encounters". HW had a lot of problems, but encounter and job balance weren't one of them. Yes, it had its stinkers, like A2S or A9S, but that's true of every expansion.
Even Gordias wasn't problematic in a vacuum- the issue is that it was deliberately tuned for 4/5 weeks of tomestone gear, making it unclearable before you got a ton of tomestone gear.
Ofc HW is old, and a lot of its fight design shows its age. It also didn't have a lot of QoL features we have now, but it's still a decent expansion with good msq.

The only truly new mechanic I've seen in DT so far is the whole Castellation thing in Interphos, Mountain Fire on Valigarmanda and the line aoes that interact with the swords on the field from Zoral Ja.

Fwiw, I think the combat in DT is pretty good. I enjoy the extremes and expert dungeons more than I've enjoyed any other batch since SB. But I'm also not gonna pretend it's groundbreaking. People also overestimate how "bad" HW balance was. EW's balance in 5.2 and 5.3 and our current DT balance are worse. (2.0 was also terrible, but that gets a pass since it was the first revision)

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

People don't usually come on the official forum to say "great job!" They come here to complain, so it's going to make the feedback on pretty much anything look largely negative.

Dawntrail has its issues but on the whole I'd say it's been a pretty good expansion so far.

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The fact that I see negative comments about DT being upvoted on the main subreddit is enough for me to know that the consensus on the DT story is that it's crap.

If the forums is where people go to complain about FFXIV, then the FFXIV subreddit is where people go to talk about the parts of the game that they love, post memes, all those sorts of things.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

I've leveled RPR to 98 and AST to 94 and these skills are a joke. The story I like, the gameplay bores me to tears. The dungeons are a nice surprise but all I do is walk from cutscene to cutscene being unengaged by what counts as "gameplay" outside of group content. Jobs at this point are abysmal.

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I guess you weren't excited about Enhanced Second Wind.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

The fact that I see negative comments about DT being upvoted on the main subreddit is enough for me to know that the consensus on the DT story is that it's crap.

If the forums is where people go to complain about FFXIV, then the FFXIV subreddit is where people go to talk about the parts of the game that they love, post memes, all those sorts of things.

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Of course there are negative comments there. There are positive comments here too. No community is a monolith even if it tends to trend one way or another.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

Of course there are negative comments there. There are positive comments here too. No community is a monolith even if it tends to trend one way or another.

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This.

It's easy to come here where people complain about the game, and they do this every patch and expansion mind you, and find yourself a circle of people who to feedback loop your negative opinions at. It's also pretty easy to feedback loop your opinions to the point you feel that they are a universal fact.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

To to be perfectly blunt, the game really dropped the ball a few times. Why are we doing a "cooking contest" but not actually doing the cooking, if our WoL is already a level 90 Culinarian. It's stuff like this that makes me shake my head and ask why crafting jobs are completely missing from the MSQ of the game. If you have the right crafter, instead of playing fetch quest, why not just craft the thing needed on the spot? Why not have a botanist actually "gather" materials.

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Just gonna jump in on this particular comment. It's because the MSQ has to be accessible to anyone regardless of whether they've leveled crafters or gatherers or not. Those jobs are "completely missing" from the MSQ because they're optional, and the MSQ by its nature can only include required things (consider how they made the previously-optional Crystal Tower series mandatory when it became tied into the MSQ in ShB). It's also why you can do certain side quests like Unukalhai's, but he's not going to appear in the MSQ even in places where it might "make sense" because not everyone is required to have met him. To be perfectly blunt, the dev's approach makes sense here and I don't feel drops any proverbial ball.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I guess you weren't excited about Enhanced Second Wind.

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You forget that ability that turns my Enshroud attacks slightly yellow. I legit had no idea what had changed after reading the tooltip. lol Such a nothing burger. And on AST I get to press my Divination button again within 45 seconds or so. Whoopdee-f'ing-doo. Granted, it looks nice.
I thought leveling up in an RPG was supposed to be exciting?

This ain't it, chief.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

The fact that I see negative comments about DT being upvoted on the main subreddit is enough for me to know that the consensus on the DT story is that it's crap.

If the forums is where people go to complain about FFXIV, then the FFXIV subreddit is where people go to talk about the parts of the game that they love, post memes, all those sorts of things.

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Or it just means a group decided to migrate there. Meanwhile, go to YT and you'll find people making positive comments about DT and getting hundreds (and sometimes over a thousand) upvotes...

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Originally Posted by Volgia

It's easy to come here where people complain about the game, and they do this every patch and expansion mind you, and find yourself a circle of people who to feedback loop your negative opinions at. It's also pretty easy to feedback loop your opinions to the point you feel that they are a universal fact.

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Very true. When most threads are an echo chamber circle jerk you're not going to see a lot of dissenting opinions because they either get chased out of the threads or they don't see much point in arguing with the hive mind to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Just gonna jump in on this particular comment. It's because the MSQ has to be accessible to anyone regardless of whether they've leveled crafters or gatherers or not. Those jobs are "completely missing" from the MSQ because they're optional, and the MSQ by its nature can only include required things (consider how they made the previously-optional Crystal Tower series mandatory when it became tied into the MSQ in ShB). It's also why you can do certain side quests like Unukalhai's, but he's not going to appear in the MSQ even in places where it might "make sense" because not everyone is required to have met him. To be perfectly blunt, the dev's approach makes sense here and I don't feel drops any proverbial ball.

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The part you missed, is that literally any other expansion, we'd be "cooking", in that we'd have to get the items, dump them in the pot, hand them to an NPC, interact with a handful of things, to "participate". Just like the stupid cutscene on the train, where we could have easily been a participant in shooting down the enemies. They literally have the technology in the Saucer. Instead, we just do... Nothing. We don't even get to watch the cooking happen. It fades to black, just like the stupid Alpaca quest.

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Originally Posted by Isala

The part you missed, is that literally any other expansion, we'd be "cooking", in that we'd have to get the items, dump them in the pot, hand them to an NPC, interact with a handful of things, to "participate". Just like the stupid cutscene on the train, where we could have easily been a participant in shooting down the enemies. They literally have the technology in the Saucer. Instead, we just do... Nothing. We don't even get to watch the cooking happen. It fades to black, just like the stupid Alpaca quest.

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this... so much this. it would have been awesome if we could have joined in on the train and actually SHOT AT THINGS. but then, I suppose this can be excused for the "accessibility" rant because people are too incompetent at high level in a VIDEO GAME to be able to hit anything.

not to mention, they could have given a choice to assist with cooking, with a good or bad outcome, if you were a culinarian, it could have enhanced it one way, if you werent, could have added a "surprising taste" since all that was required was learning the local customs. honestly, the people pressing for "accessibility" clearly cant see any way it could be done properly that actually allows everyone to still do it while making the story better.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

this... so much this. it would have been awesome if we could have joined in on the train and actually SHOT AT THINGS. but then, I suppose this can be excused for the "accessibility" rant because people are too incompetent at high level in a VIDEO GAME to be able to hit anything.

not to mention, they could have given a choice to assist with cooking, with a good or bad outcome, if you were a culinarian, it could have enhanced it one way, if you werent, could have added a "surprising taste" since all that was required was learning the local customs. honestly, the people pressing for "accessibility" clearly cant see any way it could be done properly that actually allows everyone to still do it while making the story better.

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Considering we have "Trusts" for multiplayer content, just stick a "trust" system in place with three options:

"I want to do this minigame (Cul LV 90 required)"
"I want (NPC name) to do this minigame for me"
"I want (NPC name) to do this minigame (RP)" (Normal/Easy)

Problem solved. Then just write the story reflecting how you both did it. This would at least offer the OPTION to do it, and not just fade to black.

Same with the train in DT, could we not... sit in a gunner seat and fire at targets or something? Like there is an entire minigame in the golden saucer that does this.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Considering we have "Trusts" for multiplayer content, just stick a "trust" system in place with three options:

"I want to do this minigame (Cul LV 90 required)"
"I want (NPC name) to do this minigame for me"
"I want (NPC name) to do this minigame (RP)" (Normal/Easy)

Problem solved. Then just write the story reflecting how you both did it. This would at least offer the OPTION to do it, and not just fade to black.

Same with the train in DT, could we not... sit in a gunner seat and fire at targets or something? Like there is an entire minigame in the golden saucer that does this.

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yeah, MAJOR lost opportunity there in my opinion...

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Originally Posted by Isala

Can't speak for the rest of everyone else, but the only reason I'm posting here is because I hit a point with DT where I was like "This is absolutely dog water! Surely I'm not the only one that feels this way." And sure enough, people seem to agree that DT is the worst expansion we've ever had.

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That's rich, the worst expansion? Come off it, it's way better writing than Heavensward in my opinion, but people have rosy glasses for whatever it is they like and it fogs everything else, like come on, sure it may not be stellar but how is it at all the worst thing we've ever had? That's just pure hyperbole and ruins whatever nuanced argument you might have.

I thought the story was fine. It wasn't amazing or even great, it was okay. I felt the same way about Stormblood honestly. But the content has actually been really fun. I am loving the dungeons and raids. Most people I know pretty much share that sentiment. I'm honestly wondering if the negativity is just people noticing the negative more then the positive. Or maybe a minority of terminally online people constantly shouting out their own views.

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Originally Posted by Boa-Noah

That's rich, the worst expansion? Come off it, it's way better writing than Heavensward in my opinion, but people have rosy glasses for whatever it is they like and it fogs everything else, like come on, sure it may not be stellar but how is it at all the worst thing we've ever had? That's just pure hyperbole and ruins whatever nuanced argument you might have.

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It's not hyperbole if it's true. And take a look at the ratings. The "best" comparison anyone has ever actually managed to make puts it as equal to ARR's ratings in one single category. It is, by all measurable metrics, the worst expansion XIV has had.