Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

It's called naive. Kid are wonderfully innocent, that also make them easy to manipulate. Also let me remind you some very simple fact of life:

- For someone to be old, they had to be young before.

- But someone who is still young, they had never been old before.

It mean chance is, the same people you are arguing against once upon a time, thought exact the same way you do ... until they grew up. But you have never had a chance to think like they do. Seeing you show so much hate for the old and growth up, you better brace yourself so you don't end up hating yourself in another decade or two. Unless you believe you're someone super special that would be able to avoid the path countless generation had walked before you, in that case you should think about running for president heh?

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and you think old people are hard to manipulate? if choice to could scam a punch of old people so easily out of 10k + in real life so not really saying anything beside these old people are the same dumb people falling for scams irl

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Originally Posted by Graveyardprincess

and you think old people are hard to manipulate if choice to could scam a punch of old people so easily out of 10k + in real life so not really saying anything beside these old people are the same dumb people falling for scams irl

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That actually doesn't favor your argument the way you think it does. The reason those "old people" get easily scam exactly because their mental degradation make them vulnerable like kids. I'm taking care of my parent who is 70+, and a lot of time it feels like I'm dealing with a kid rather than adult. But like I said, good luck with not hating yourself eventually once you finish doing the grow up.

Haven't posted on the forums for so long, but I have to agree for now. I don't really care much for Wuk Lamat, even in the post patches that did introduce her, although she was meant to be an innocent, impulsive character it feels like they went way too much into it. Having her be a one note character spamming "I want to be the Dawnservant" over and over, and having "hehe haha quirky" moments is good in small doses, but not good when it's all the character does. I'm still in the beginning of Dawntrail's story, and Wuk Lamat really doesn't seem like a leadership type of person. Hopefully she does develop into a more competent and less emotionally impulsive character and maybe gains more wisdom later in the MSQ, just going to remain a bit on the dislike Wuk side until I form more of an opinion on her. Hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised by the end of the MSQ (really hoping I will be)!

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Wuk Lamat is a great character and without saying anything bad about the other expansions, then this one is way better than anything else we got.

Stop creating problems, where there is none and apparently the OP and likewise others did not pay attention to the story as well at all.


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Also most persons here has something against everything if it is not a male who is in charge of stuff, it is kind of pathetic.

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Is this really the only defense you have? The patriarchy? That's why we don't like it?

I have almost 500 Audiobooks alone, and I would say near 60-70% of them have Female leads or co-leads. You want to know the difference between all of them and this?

They are good characters with a good story. This character is garbage, and the story so far has been garbage (about an hour past the first trial). I know its all subjective, but you can shove off with your nonsense reasoning for why we don't like it. Your just as bad as the people using the VA's orientation as a shield against criticism.

I miss Zenos man.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

That actually doesn't favor your argument the way you think it does. The reason those "old people" get easily scam exactly because their mental degradation make them vulnerable like kids. I'm taking care of my parent who is 70+, and a lot of time it feels like I'm dealing with a kid rather than adult. But like I said, good luck with not hating yourself eventually once you finish doing the grow up.

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oh please a. I have no intention of ever aging nor allowing it to effect me and b. i cant be manipulated at all i am immune to both counts

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

arnt you cheery

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No, i am sad. :(



Cheers

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Originally Posted by Elodie_Einsbern

Is this really the only defense you have? The patriarchy? That's why we don't like it?

I have almost 500 Audiobooks alone, and I would say near 60-70% of them have Female leads or co-leads. You want to know the difference between all of them and this?

They are good characters with a good story. This character is garbage, and the story so far has been garbage (about an hour past the first trial). I know its all subjective, but you can shove off with your nonsense reasoning for why we don't like it. Your just as bad as the people using the VA's orientation as a shield against criticism.

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To add to your point, pretty sure everyone who plays this game thinks Admiral Merlwyb is a great character, kind of destroys the narrative of sexism. If I was a woman I'd see Wuk as an insult than representation, like is this how people view young women trying to get into leadership, narcissistic whiners?

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Originally Posted by Malthir

To add to your point, pretty sure everyone who plays this game thinks Admiral Merlwyb is a great character, kind of destroys the narrative of sexism. If I was a woman I'd see Wuk as an insult than representation, like is this how people view young women trying to get into leadership, narcissistic whiners?

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I mean there's also Ryne, she's wonderful.

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Originally Posted by localareanetwork

I mean there's also Ryne, she's wonderful.

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I wasn't a huge fan of Ryne personally, but unlike Wuk I don't think she was poorly written just not to my taste.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

To add to your point, pretty sure everyone who plays this game thinks Admiral Merlwyb is a great character, kind of destroys the narrative of sexism. If I was a woman I'd see Wuk as an insult than representation, like is this how people view young women trying to get into leadership, narcissistic whiners?

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People don't hate female characters. They hate bad writing.

I thought Rogue One made the above 2 sentences abundantly clear.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

To add to your point, pretty sure everyone who plays this game thinks Admiral Merlwyb is a great character, kind of destroys the narrative of sexism. If I was a woman I'd see Wuk as an insult than representation, like is this how people view young women trying to get into leadership, narcissistic whiners?

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Did you REALLY just call ALL women narcissistic whiners?! Straight to jail buddy.

Wuk Lamat is a plague on this expansion's writing. I'm glad I'm finally at a part where the focus is shifting off her inane self esteem issues for half a second.

Wuk's is a terrible, annoying character that is once more the main character of the story - like we didn't *just* do that in the 6.x questlines. But that's not even the only issue. The story itself is also...really poor and badly paced. You really mean to tell me that so many of the not-Vanu-Vanu didn't know that their float was actually ultra-magical focus that fired actual, literal beams of energy out of it's eyes and caused shining rain? But Alphinaud figured it out IMMEDIATELY?

Or that in the PeluPelu questline, they try to do a trading questline - which is actually interesting...while following nothing about how actual trading and business works? You really mean to tell me I just got the equivalent of Two hundred thousand gil by...spending 5 minutes getting Mate leaves? The whole story has been genuinely full of glaring holes with poor pacing. Wuk just makes it worse by us having to stop every cutscene because she either has to complain about seasickness, or being unsure of herself, or doing a "so fahnny comedy bit". Still plenty of expansion to go, sure, but by god, this is starting off /rough/.

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Originally Posted by CosmoBabylonia

People don't hate female characters. They hate bad writing.

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Because people like to rely on excuse when they can't come up with a proper counter argument, and these days there is no better excuse than drawing one from some kind of social activism. There is a reason Lyse got a lot of hate while at the same time Y'stola has a fan base.

Also I don't think naiveness would automatically make a character badly written. Look at Nanamo, 2.0 she was the epitome of a naive ruler, and many would say her decision at the end of 2.45 was stupid that has dire consequence, but she wasn't a badly written character. Wuk Lamat's archetype isn't exactly rare in the anime world, she's just a badly written one.

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Originally Posted by SirShady

Did you REALLY just call ALL women narcissistic whiners?! Straight to jail buddy.

Wuk Lamat is a plague on this expansion's writing. I'm glad I'm finally at a part where the focus is shifting off her inane self esteem issues for half a second.

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I'm too smooth brain to work out if you understand that the point I was making was that calling Wuk a representation of women, is insulting to women, or if you're being sarcastic. Either way, women as a whole good, Wuk bad.

I mean. If wishing some other user a horrible death is not a moderation concern - I don’t know what is.

Wuk is atleast not as plain and boring as Zoraal Ja which says rough onliners the whole time.

...You guys do realize that Graveyard is trolling and just driving away the actual point of the discussion, right?

Pretty sure Threads which beginn as "all of us tell everybody how much we hate XY" is not really a good start for a discussion.

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Originally Posted by SwadTheFrog

...You guys do realize that Graveyard is trolling and just driving away the actual point of the discussion, right?

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Yes, but it's very funny.

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Originally Posted by QiyoJoyo

Pretty sure Threads which beginn as "all of us tell everybody how much we hate XY" is not really a good start for a discussion.

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Imagine having the audacity to have a negative opinion. Let people talk about their feelings. That is the point of a forum.

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Originally Posted by SirShady

Yes, but it's very funny.

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Alright, it's a little bit funny.

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Originally Posted by SwadTheFrog

Alright, it's a little bit funny.

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Not going to lie, but I haven't seen this shit since the mid 2000s. This is great honestly.

Personally, I wouldn't trust Wuk Lamat leading a pack of alpacas let alone an entire nation

Sorry, lady, Wuk lamat sucks. Keep seething.

dang that escalated pretty quickly XD

What I don't like is the writer's feel good values being opaque in the representation of the character. As if I need to know that war is hell and peace is good.

someone should bring the cage..again..you know the one

XIV is pretty bad at humor, so having a largely humorous hildalbrand esque character like Wuk is a bit off putting to me.

When Dawntrail takes itself more seirously I actually like it quite a bit, but the food humor needs to stop

Thankfully someone on reddit pointed out that there was a Wuk Lamat thread on the official forums where we don't have to fear downvote nukes so I made my way here.

The thing I am absolutely despising from over yonder is the: "It's ARR all over again, it's ok to be slow at first" and "We are starting again, it's better to not be depressing" as if any of these reasons are justifiable reasons to the main plot being an utterly mundane and juvenile princess we have to ferry from A to B. A beginning chapter of a story doesn't get a pass for being bad because it's a beginning chapter. You close the book. However the last book had the likes of Emet-Selch and the Exarch and now we have to be OK with our WoL supposedly tolerating this female Naruto who will defeat her brothers, who are far more interesting besides the 2 header, with the power of friendship. I think most of us want to jump ship the second we see another brother but instead we are getting gaslit into thinking Wuk Lamat is It.

On a more positive note, I am enjoying the freshness of the new world. I eagerly dig into my mind fingers into any world building in the areas we are sent to, as if to immerse in something else entirely, before the clumsy princess inevitably reminds me she exists. First dungeon was cool too.

I feel like they didn't know what to do with Wuk Lamat. Her arc is about learning how to be a leader after being a spoiled princess. Fine. Being a leader isn't just hope/dreams/friendship.

Two of the most important aspects to being a leader is using the resources you have available to yourself and making tough choices. As far as making tough choices goes, I haven't really seen that. The toughest choices she's made are getting over her dislike of Alpacas and forcing herself to ride boats. Not really a tough choice. I may not agree with a certain character, but he's at least shown he's willing to make sacrifices.

The other aspect, using your available resources, is the one that's more important and impacts us. Wuk Lamat has the Warrior of Light -- a literal god killer who has traveled to other worlds, back in time, and the edge of the universe to kill the personification of despair -- on her side. Despite having the best resource available, she doesn't use us aside from chores that a handful of NPC guards could do. Have us go toe-to-toe with Two Head, stomp him and become his Zenos. Let just steamroll through problems till we find one we can't steamroll. Instead I feel like Krile did before she learned how to draw.

So far she's pretty excruciating. I truly do not understand how people could hate Zero but love this obnoxious and incompetent character. Not only that but the game forces us to cheer her on at every turn, no matter how dumb her words and actions are.

Wuk is as bland as all 3 of the zones i've explored and quested in so far.

So far DT has been worse and EW in story and I didn't think it could get any worse than tHe pOwER oF FrIEndShIp.

Really says a lot when your "story" MMO has gone as far in the dumps as this one has in terms of story telling.

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Originally Posted by Azureskies01

Wuk is as bland as all 3 of the zones i've explored and quested in so far.

So far DT has been worse and EW in story and I didn't think it could get any worse than tHe pOwER oF FrIEndShIp.

Really says a lot when your "story" MMO has gone as far in the dumps as this one has in terms of story telling.

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Yeah i'm at the point of very glad I unsubbed when the media tour finished and I saw how they butchered the jobs, I was a fool to pre order before that. Since I already bought it, thought I would give the story a shot maybe that can carry terrible job play, but nope Yawntrail DOA.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

Thought I would give the story a shot maybe that can carry terrible job play, but nope Yawntrail DOA.

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For the record the story is actually pretty enjoyable outside of Wuk Lamat, at least so far.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

For the record the story is actually pretty enjoyable outside of Wuk Lamat, at least so far.

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Ya it has potential, and there are genuine snippets of decent writing scattered throughout. Unfortunately, Wuk is shoehorned into like everything. I just went back to play my Total Warhammer III campaign.

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Originally Posted by Ruris

The thing I am absolutely despising from over yonder is the: "It's ARR all over again, it's ok to be slow at first" and "We are starting again, it's better to not be depressing" as if any of these reasons are justifiable reasons to the main plot being an utterly mundane and juvenile princess we have to ferry from A to B.

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It's hilarious, too. ARR is usually regarded as an absolute slogfest and one of the biggest issues for people starting the game- the questing is awful in XIV in general, but ARR is egregious, it goes on for too long and has a lot of filler.
Saying something is like ARR is saying something is pretty awful. But somehow, I'm supposed to accept this from new content on a game that's over a decade old.
I had hoped they would've learned not to repeat mistakes from 2013. Guess it's me who should endure it with a smile :)

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Originally Posted by Malthir

Yeah i'm at the point of very glad I unsubbed when the media tour finished and I saw how they butchered the jobs, I was a fool to pre order before that. Since I already bought it, thought I would give the story a shot maybe that can carry terrible job play, but nope Yawntrail DOA.

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Yeah no the combat is just as fun as it ever was and there is nothing wrong or changed about 99% of it. The story however is -redacted- dog water.

They need a complete re-write of most of the scenes including Wuk and they HAVE TO rerecord her voice lines by a woman that knows how to act for crying out loud

It's not just Wuk Lamat. Almost every aspect of Dawntrail's story has been off. At this point i'm hoping they're in a simulation or something.

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Originally Posted by Azureskies01

Yeah no the combat is just as fun as it ever was and there is nothing wrong or changed about 99% of it. The story however is -redacted- dog water.

They need a complete re-write of most of the scenes including Wuk and they HAVE TO rerecord her voice lines by a woman that knows how to act for crying out loud

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That is just a pathetic excuse, the voice is absolutely nice, it is just because it goes by a none American/English accent you complain, if sound annoys you, you can turn it off too you know?

Am happy for once not listening to some near perfect scholar voice all the time... English or American but more like something else.

I'm pretty deep into the MSQ now, and at this point I'd honestly rather hang out with Bango Zango from Limsa Lominsa than spend a single second longer with this Hrothgar