Unenthused About Dawntrail

Story wise, it all just feels so contrived. At least with other expansions, the lead in is interesting, and this one just isn't. I don't care that I'm going to this new place. I've already forgotten its name.

If they wanted me to care about the new world they needed to start setting up plot threads in like 6.3, like when graha started pulling the scions into the first during 4.x

Having the ~~not~~ ripped out trial storyline take up the entirety of the 6.1-6.5 space gave them no time to set up the right plot threads to hook me and at this point I’d rather support wuk’s miqote scholar brother over her given what I know about the characters at this point

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

If they wanted me to care about the new world they needed to start setting up plot threads in like 6.3, like when graha started pulling the scions into the first during 4.x

Having the ~~not~~ ripped out trial storyline take up the entirety of the 6.1-6.5 space gave them no time to set up the right plot threads to hook me and at this point I’d rather support wuk’s miqote scholar brother over her given what I know about the characters at this point

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It’d have been super neat if instead of the void we explore the brother’s perspective as well as his sister’s. Thus allowing the scions to organically form their opinions on the matter instead of rushing it.

I am excited but weary. Until they bring the old pet management back, i will not be fully happy with the upcoming expansion. And no, I am not going to play a limited job

Curious why do folks believe they know how the story is going to play out? Haven't ya'll learned from the Zodiark?

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Curious why do folks believe they know how the story is going to play out? Haven't ya'll learned from the Zodiark?

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That still bugs me. 13 or 14 years of buildup excuse me I can't remember when 1.0 came out and if the Ascians were even a thing, but at least 11 soon and all that build up was a wet fart in the end. Zodiark got cheated.

But it's ok y'all were going on summer vacation! I don't have much faith left in the writing team anymore, but I'm open to being surprised.

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

That still bugs me. 13 or 14 years of buildup excuse me I can't remember when 1.0 came out and if the Ascians were even a thing, but at least 11 soon and all that build up was a wet fart in the end. Zodiark got cheated.

But it's ok y'all were going on summer vacation! I don't have much faith left in the writing team anymore, but I'm open to being surprised.

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They were around in 1.0, they just looked similar to Ascian Prime from Aetherochemical Research Facility and were far in the periphery.

The only time you see one in 1.0 is after you beat 1.0 ifrit you see one (as above said they look like ascian prime or eden promise) floating around that you hide from and your path partner makes a comment about them

It’s obvious they had no direction for them in 1.0 as the paper thin story of OG 1.0 before the meteor project more focused on conflicts with the beast tribes

Still, though, at the end, it's all meaningless. For as much as the community loves Emet, his whole goal becomes a joke in the hands of his fellow Ascians.

Emets plan was good in ShB. He didn’t deny he facilitated the rejoining to return the ancients and he functionally doesn’t even see us as alive. However he does make an effort to see how far the source residents have come to see if there comes a point when they can stop the rejoinings even if it’s prior to all 13 shards being rejoined. Sure he kinda goes off the deep end at the end but that’s mostly because the WOL “failed” his test. There is no reason to think 1 or 2 rejoinings down the line he wouldn’t try again

What ruined emet was using him at the end of EW to come in and say “you have gone further than even we could” as a cheap way of deflecting the criticism that there is no valid reason why venat wouldn’t tell the ancients what was learned in elpis (outside of the closed time loop which is its own problem that should have just been rectified by the WOL playing azem in elpis with the CT being used to send the WOL’s memories into azem)

They flanderised emet selch’s character and ambitions so they could defend venat when she really doesn’t have a valid excuse for not trusting in the ancients (their society was flawed yes, that doesn’t mean you metaphysically nuke it from orbit), especially since they literally chanced upon the correct solution anyway even with no knowledge. Venat has no justification for not telling the ancients what was learned in elpis and the time loop is used as a cheap way to treat it like she had no choice (which again they should have dodged by not doing a closed time loop)

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

I'm absolutely certain that a majority of folks are hyped for Dawntrail which is great and well-deserved.

But I'm curious about folks who are actively going 'meh' about it's arrival.

Personally, I'm only looking forward to Female Hrothgar. But nothing particularly intriguing sticks out to me. I've yet to be properly hooked like I was for Endwalker. The trailer didn't excite me - the new jobs are alright but nothing eye catching - I don't really care about the graphics update - and I'm taking the promise of more content with a grain of salt.

For my fellow denizens of this forum who aren't terribly hyped or even moderately excited over the upcoming patch 7.0 - may I ask why?

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I'm kinda "meh" about DT too, but I'm going to at least play through MSQ. There's no way they can mess it up like they did Endwalker's MSQ (I hope). Also the environment in the graphics update looks great, and I look forward to seeing that as well.

Zodiark as 83 trial was telegraphed pretty heavily since 5.3 - given that elidibus was repeatedly mentioned as the pilot, either someone else had to take control or it'd have to be fought empty.

It's like how with dawntrail, you can have a reasonable estimate that (rot13) gur zvffvat 4gu pbagraqre naq ohaalobl ner bar naq gur fnzr, gung rvgure ur be jhx ynzng vf tbvat gb qvr naq zbgvingr gur bgure gb pynvz gur guebar, gung gur guebar vf urnivyl gvrq gb ybfg grpuabybtl bs tencuvppneq pvgl naq fb ba. Lbh pna nyfb thrff gung tencuvppneq pvgl vf napvrag eryngrq, tvira gur fbat funerf zbgvsf jvgu gur znpneran natyr naq n fvta ernqf "fbhy fhccbfvgbel". Whether or not this is the case, it feels predictable - which when it turns out to be completely different allows my no expectations to be pleasantly subverted. Dawntrail also not being marketed as the decade culmination seemingly has rather less lofty goals, which tempers things somewhat.

edit: that said, my gut feeling is the msq won't be able to leave the ascians alone for even an expansion.

Personally I quite like the exploration side, and while no expansion has given the freedom to roam of arr, the novelty of poison swamps & across the andes by frog: the expansion promises a smaller scale world than the scattershot of endwalker.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

Zodiark as 83 trial was telegraphed pretty heavily since 5.3 - given that elidibus was repeatedly mentioned as the pilot, either someone else had to take control or it'd have to be fought empty.

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And Fandaniel doing it so early on with his goal being what it was felt like an attempt at subverting expectations for its own sake. One of the first monologues Zenos had after his return was about taking control of a god among gods, forcing the WoL to do the same, and getting to experience a battle that could never be topped. It probably would've felt like a repeat of the end of Stormblood(Hydaelyn would probably just funnel everything she was into the WoL, so we wouldn't be piloting her or anything), but I would've taken that over the goofy MGS4-style fist fight at the end of the solo duty.

I am also unenthused about Dawntrail. For me, the trailer did the opposite of what a good trailer should do. I have no real opinion on the jobs as it really comes down to their rotations to determine if I'll like them or not.

Endwalker's story left a bad taste in my mouth and there doesn't seem to be any commitment to creating a solid set of "physics" and metaphysics in their universe, anymore. I'm also left to wonder how you have emotion and memory as different mutually destructive energies.

I'm left to wonder how much stagnancy is due to the massive amount of technical debt they have. I imagine most of the stuff they want to do just takes too long because of all that technical debt. So, we just end up with what they've already done in the past because it's the only things that works within their existing infrastructure.

I would love it if the overworld became more interesting. Honestly, the overworld is one of the more boring experiences I've seen in an MMO. FATEs are too grindy and unvaried, and combat is too constrained to really grab a ton of mobs and drop them. I had fun in other games pushing myself to see how many mobs I could kite and survive. It's basically impossible to do that here as the mobs will reset.

Additionally, this is the only game I've seen where harvestable resources in the world aren't actually rendered. They did do it in Island Sanctuary, but it's not done in the overworld. Also, given the static placement of the resources it gets very repetitive quickly. Honestly, there's really nothing to discover in the overworld. There's nothing hidden, nothing that pops up to excite or fight over. It makes the world feel very stale, static and uninteresting.

All-in-all FFXIV has been lacking in the variability and randomness that allows for increased playability. It seems much more focused on memorization than adaptability and I don't see that changing.

So, what I'm very much hoping to see is a lot of QoL improvements, pre-Endwalker quality writing, and more to do in the overworld. I'm very much afraid I won't get much of any of that.

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Originally Posted by Tethan

Oh I am. We will see if it becomes a permanent one.

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Maybe, but sometimes taking a break helps. Could always pop back in if you see something changed/added that grabs your attention again. I've taken a lot of breaks from "that other MMO" throughout the years, and while it may never be my main or favorite MMO ever again, I can still find enjoyment out of it every now and then.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

Zodiark as 83 trial was telegraphed pretty heavily since 5.3 - given that elidibus was repeatedly mentioned as the pilot, either someone else had to take control or it'd have to be fought empty.

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As a fight, yes, but as the 83 trial specifically? No. If they actually had the space for the stories 6.0 was trying to tell, they would have had a lot more time before Fandaniel got in the primalbot rather than showing off the shiny new clown and then tossing him off the stage just as he started getting into his act, leaving the villain seat in the hands of a character who is consistently extremely reactive across multiple expansions (while I like him a lot and think it works for his personality, it makes him a weak choice as sole antagonist—he needs more proactive coantagonists to shine) and a bird from space who hadn't even been hinted at before that point and barely shows up until the reveal of who she is (and thus also works very poorly as the main antagonist). It's a recurring issue in 6.0 that they do not have the space to cash the checks they're writing.

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Originally Posted by Rudje

and a bird from space who hadn't even been hinted at before that point and barely shows up until the reveal of who she is (and thus also works very poorly as the main antagonist). It's a recurring issue in 6.0 that they do not have the space to cash the checks they're writing.

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I mean "technically" there was the ARR morse code from the Crystal Tower 8)

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Originally Posted by Rudje

As a fight, yes, but as the 83 trial specifically? No.

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I remember in the run up to endwalker, zodiark as the 83 trial being a super common theory because of what I already mentioned and the some meta speculation from the trailer. (the moon and zodiark being shown indicating they would not be the climax of the story, the weird red buildings in ancient style that turned out to be elpis etc)

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

I'm absolutely certain that a majority of folks are hyped for Dawntrail which is great and well-deserved.
But I'm curious about folks who are actively going 'meh' about it's arrival.
[snip]
For my fellow denizens of this forum who aren't terribly hyped or even moderately excited over the upcoming patch 7.0 - may I ask why?

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Half of it is that Endwalker has mostly been a dud on the content side for me. For what it's worth, Shadowbringer was too, but I ended up skipping that whole expasion cycle after finishing the MSQ so it's not really as relevant. Anyways, during Endwalker the bulk of my playtime has been split between Eureka (to a lesser extent bozjia) and attempting to solo clear the various deep dungeons or just playing around with BLU here and there. With this in mind, the prospect of more content that likely won't appeal to me is nothing to get excited about. Then, when I consider how much content that I do enjoy is actually level synced, the prospect of new job actions leads me to worry "Is X job going to feel worse at 60/70?" rather than excitedly think "Oh I wonder what Paladin gets!". Having my main suddenly reworked underneath me (paladin) was also not something that I appreciated, but what is done is done and I can only hope that they improve it in DT.

The other half of the problem is that while 6.0 was a really good MSQ (it has it's issues, but none of them were deal breakers for me), the post patch 6.1-6.5 were bad enough that it retroactively made certain writing decisions in 6.0 (specifically regarding how they dealt with Garlemald) considerably more questionable and dissatisfying. When coupled with 6.55 trying it's hardest to over-complicate a simple call to adventure, it leaves me with the sense that I'm better off just "getting to endgame" in Dawntrail so I don't have to feel like I wasted my time getting invested in a story that ended up being a waste (probably in a similar way to how 6.X left me feeling).

TL;DR: I didn't care much for the patch content of Endwalker (both battle and story) and I don't see SE taking the risks needed to make me excited. I'm open to it being good, but I'm not holding my breath.

For the first time, I'm skipping MSQ. I disliked almost everything that came after 5.0 (5.X - 6.55)
I look forward to leveling and clearing new content.

I suppose for me I’m more focused on the content types and quality of said content. Because I know they need to start the story again etc I’m hoping for at least this to be a stormblood 2.0 (I thought the story was meh but content great) so that’s my core hope for Dawntrail I of course will be checking it out day 1, the other thing is… it’s just nice to see new areas lol it gets all samey after 2 years so that will be a nice change of pace.

The formula its going to be exactly the same :

-Walls of unvoiced text and cutscenes
-10 hours of MSQ
-A few dungeons (corridors-mobs-corridor-boss-mobs-corridor- green items that are worst than the current max Ilevel from EW so it doesn't matter)
-Same scions/characters but doing low effort japanese humor.
-After defeating literally gods and one that can wipe the entire universe now a generic lizerdmen design from ARR its kicking the floor against WOL.

I hope the new areas are just comfy for the first hours of gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye

I really think the trailer is a red herring and that they're purposely affixing happy-go-lucky vibes to something that might get kind of dark.

The lead MSQ writers for Dawntrail are the guys responsible for Sorrows of Werlyt and the pixie tribal quests.

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We said the same thing that EW was being made by the DRK writer and this meant it was guaranteed to be flawless, it was……controversial

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Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye

I really think the trailer is a red herring and that they're purposely affixing happy-go-lucky vibes to something that might get kind of dark.

The lead MSQ writers for Dawntrail are the guys responsible for Sorrows of Werlyt and the pixie tribal quests.

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I for one will be completely happy if I am wrong about the dying hype factor. The MSQ is usually enought for me, but im so tired of the Scions as the end all be all. In the end, ill buy/play it either way, but even the devs seem like they're just going along with the flow. Gameplay wise, that blandfest doesn't seem to see any possibility for changes

I'm not overly worried about non MSQ content as devs have seemingly acknowledged 6.0 was lacking in this regard. 6.0 had variation but it was missing scope-- hopefully their new exploratory zone will breathe some life into the patch cycle this time around and actually be a large scale thing you can do with other players.

As far as being stuck with the Scions, the MSQ quest structure, the story pacing...this has always been a struggle with this team imo, whether you're talking about Heavensward or you're talking about FFXVI. This particular team can execute insanely high highs but when it comes to the lows, they fumble and don't know where to go sometimes.

I would imagine 7.0 is going to have some kind of twist that sets up the new arc, but it's likely going to be a lot of busy work to get there vs. doing stuff that's surprising/fun.

Admittedly, a friend and I have discussed whether this may be our last expansion. While I'm not quite to that extent yet, he's pretty firm if they repeat Endwalker dismal content longevity he'll quit. I'm more on the "may start unsubbing" train of sorts. There's still plenty I like about the game but the sheer lack of staying power really hurt. Hell, the last couple months I've logged in mostly for my subs or if someone asks me to. Otherwise, I'm playing other games, namely Cyperpunk at the moment.

For both of us, Dawntrail needs to impress though. This is easily the most "muted" I've gone into a new expansion. I'm hoping my lack of expectations winds up leading to some hype along the way.

Wasn't super hyped for Dawntrail until I got to see hrothgals! The trailer is nothing amazing and given I don't care much for either of the new jobs I was not super interested. I don't doubt I will enjoy the MSQ, I loved Endwalker MSQ and the patch series was ok but would have much preffered they give EW story more space in the patches than wrapping it up all in one but I understand why they made the choice they did.

The content for EW I was so hyped for, island sanctuary I had so much hope for but in the end it's fallen short of what it could have been imo. The criterion dungeons I think are a fantastic addition and I hope they improve savage rewards so we can gear with that content. Nothing announced content wise for Dawntrail has me excited like I was for the EW content announcements. I'm glad they are looking into refreshing encounter design to make it less boring, but I hope they do something about jobs being very samey after all these years.

I expect to enjoy DT but not as much as I did EW or SHB releases. But that's nothing shocking given the story in DT is fresh! I am also glad of more item slots in houses, two dye channels and other qol announced.

Why should I be excited about Dawntrail?
It seems to be heading down the same path as all the other expansions, a path where they add a topping but it doesn't change the taste at all,
when they had the opportunity to overhaul gameplay, rethink the farming system overall, modify the way MSQ work, etc...

Making major changes for 7.0 was a real opportunity after finishing a 10-year storyline arc and after receiving so much feedback on Endwalker where people were generally bored.

We can see from the fanfests that there will be no changes, that the patch cycle will remain identical and predictable, that there may potentially be no changes to the combat system given what they've said,
so the presence of the 120s burst meta will persist, making Endwalker 2.0 gameplay.

And it's just my personal opinion, but I found the CGI trailer absolutely mediocre, the music is certainly the most mediocre they've ever released, the introductory story patch of Dawntrail was really bad according to my tastes,
so while it doesn't mean much, it still sets the tone.

I'm cautiously optimistic to neutral. While some of the stuff we have seen so far is promising, the overall Job Design could be a make or break for me. As a former healer player that started in 4.05, I want to see some decent changes to the Healer jobs and Dark Knight. Praying that they'll be at least one healer job that I can play next expansion. As for right now, I'm just playing whatever job sticks this time (BRD is fun at least).

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

but it's likely going to be a lot of busy work to get there vs. doing stuff that's surprising/fun.

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So most of 2.0?

I am already overhyping myself for the FFXI raid. There's no way it could possibly meet my expectations!

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Originally Posted by Daralii

So most of 2.0?

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Correct, that's why my post says whether you are talking about Heavensward and even up to their latest work, FFXVI. Heavensward has some of the most iconic moments in MMOs and yet, is still bogged down by poor pacing.

Which...I just don't subscribe to the idea that the player should grind in order to "get to the good part". Unfortunately the way XIV is already structured quest wise and reward wise, makes the possibility of MSQ gameplay and storytelling evolving somehow highly unlikely imo. The game is kind of predicated on introducing a new location, acclimating you to the people and lore there, then throwing you into a combat scenario. Sometimes the order of those things changes. I don't see it shaking up more than that.

That said, when we look at MSQ like Garlemald in 6.0, I think this formula is a little more tolerable because whatever you are doing is highly story relevant, has voiced cutscenes decently distributed, etc. It doesn't have any wild gameplay but I still found it way easier to get through than say, meeting the Lopporits or the trolley in 5.0.

I liked Endwalker. But the patch MSQ was very boring for me and Dawntrail looks more of the same.

Job changes looking to be similar than in previous expansion, so they all will feel the same as before.

PvE remains to be seen. Everything casual in EW was snooze fest.

Mostly not a fan of how the story has been set up. We had one pre 7.0 patch to actually get a preview of what dawntrail would be. I wasn't really a fan of how most patch content was just a repaint of FF4 except without much of the charm. But that ties into more of what I didn't like about Endwalker. I don't really care that much for Wuk Lamat and I don't like how our characters became suddenly so keen to help her out so quickly.

My sub expires 1 week after DT release, knowing that I won't be able to resub again, turned an expansion that I actually wasn't looking forward to but was willing to give it a go with super low expectations to something I actively hate.

Edit :
All my fav chars ripped in EW, so I have nothing to look forward to in terms of DT or the MSQ in general.

as a long time subscriber to this game i am very happy with the game a look forward to the new content from the company.

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The formula its going to be exactly the same :

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This is why I'm looking forward to DT - I enjoy the current formula.

-An MSQ that will likely take me a few months to gradually play through, while leveling multiple classes, doing all of the sidequests, sprinkling in some old things I haven't done yet, and so on. (And to whoever said "10 hours of MSQ", EW's MSQ averages about 25 hours if you only do the MSQ, and about 50-60 hours if you do side content as well.)
-Familiar characters in new situations, along with some new allies we'll meet along the way.
-A story I will likely find engaging and fun to experience. Some of it will be voiced, some will be text (aka the entirety of all of the early FF games that got me to love the series).
-Anticipating fantastic music as well given the entire history of the game and the composing still being done by Soken and his team.

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After defeating literally gods and one that can wipe the entire universe now a generic lizerdmen design from ARR its kicking the floor against WOL.

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Actual history is filled with powerful people who were ultimately brought down by those they underestimated. Or Boba Fett (before they brought him back) - notorious bounty hunter who didn't pay attention to this surroundings and got unceremoniously offed.

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Why should I be excited about Dawntrail?
It seems to be heading down the same path as all the other expansions, a path where they add a topping but it doesn't change the taste at all,
when they had the opportunity to overhaul gameplay, rethink the farming system overall, modify the way MSQ work, etc...

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This is why I'm excited about DT. Because for me, the "taste" is chocolate, and I love chocolate. Might I someday get bored with the current path? Probably. But the time is not even on the horizon yet. Doing major modifications to a game this far in its life is much more likely to be counter-productive and push more people away than it is to attract new players or retain a specific segment of the current group.

It's honestly not as exciting from an MSQ perspective, but from a content perspective, it's good to see some things coming back particularly exploration zones.

New shit to do and new stuff to level and new stuff to earn and obtain. The msq can be absolute doodoo and I'll still be happy. I enjoy just being in the game environment.

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Originally Posted by Sayo_

I don't really care that much for Wuk Lamat and I don't like how our characters became suddenly so keen to help her out so quickly.

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Yeah, I remember this got brought up in a different thread. The WoL and company are again meddling in foreign affairs of which they have no business being involved in.