Character graphical changes are NOT in an acceptable state, please make it optional

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Originally Posted by TheDruidOcelot

and yet they promised to not make them look like different characters, so people rightfully feel lied to

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Developers dont make promises, gamers just tell themselves they are.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Developers dont make promises, gamers just tell themselves they are.

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are you joking? they literally said "we don't want them to look like different characters, we just want people to say 'look, my character is pretty now.' " verbatim.

they LITERALLY PROMISED. IN a live letter. when they announced the changes. and repeated it. more than once.

On one hand I am very VERY happy with mine outside of facepaint being left completely untouched.
https://i.imgur.com/C345m7U.png
https://i.imgur.com/yOAAF1f.png
On the other, I hope those encountering issues have their issues resolved, however way it'll need to be.

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Originally Posted by TheDruidOcelot

are you joking? they literally said "we don't want them to look like different characters, we just want people to say 'look, my character is pretty now.' " verbatim.

they LITERALLY PROMISED. IN a live letter. when they announced the changes. and repeated it. more than once.

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That is not is promise that is them stating their wants which can change at any moment. Promise and want do not mean the same thing.

remember when i told you people to keep expectations low? .....this is why , gimme my damn fangs back

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Originally Posted by keichirou

remember when i told you people to keep expectations low? .....this is why , gimme my damn fangs back

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Expectations and assuming go hand and hand. Sooner or later they will make you look like a fool.

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Originally Posted by Rudje

I mean, a lot of these changes cannot be fixed with fantas.

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You're right and it's quite upsetting. This is pretty much unfixable and it's shocking that there are people who will defend or downplay these unnecessary stylistic changes.

https://i.postimg.cc/kXfFQ6S3/DTbench-Comparison.png

I will be race changing with that free fantasia. There is no way I will be able to return to my current look which I love, so I might as well start from scratch.

I love looking at these comparison shots and the biggest difference is....the lighting....it's really dim in the benchmark character creator for some reason. Most of your characters look almost exactly the same for me.

Not a fan of they they did to my Elezen myself. Her eyes are souless now.

https://i.postimg.cc/8PqK7bFX/Soulless.jpg

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Originally Posted by MrMordio

Better but the same should be the target, but I don't feel like they hit that :(

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It still makes more sense to keep the models the "same but better" over changing them

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I'm curious and perhaps you could enlighten me, but where is the line drawn between 'make them better' and 'keep them the same'? Where is the limit? At what point are they no longer the same character?

Ultimately, the changes appear to have been made in order to make the characters look more real - the same characters, just made to look more realistic. But all of these realistic features have been pointed out by different players to be features they dislike and that have to be reverted:

Skin texture and pores? - presumably to give a more tangible appearance, rather than cartoon-ish. A matter complained about by some.

Removal of a permanent eye glint and instead adding light reflection based on environment? - again, more in keeping with real effects of environment and lighting. But again, complained about by some as leaving their characters 'empty and soul-less'.

Extra detail to facial structure - dimples being one example. Look in the mirror. Smile. You'll see dimples! Some may be strong, others more subtle, but they'll be there. Yet some complain this goes too far and prefer to return to the more solid, doll-like appearance.

While there are more, I would think each of these would be perfectly understandable ways of trying to make the characters 'better' while still being the same character. Yet each of these have been complained about. So I ask, where is the limit? Exactly what would you be looking for?

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

I'm curious and perhaps you could enlighten me, but where is the line drawn between 'make them better' and 'keep them the same'? Where is the limit? At what point are they no longer the same character?

Ultimately, the changes made appear to have been made in order to make the characters look more real - the same characters, just made to look more realistic. But all of these realistic features have been pointed out by different players to be featured they dislike and that have to be reverted:

Skin texture and pores? - presumably to give a more tangible appearance, rather than cartoon-ish. A matter complained about by some.

Removal of a permanent eye glint and instead adding light reflection based on environment? - again, more in keeping with real effects of environment and lighting. But again, complained about by some as leaving their characters 'empty and soul-less'.

Extra detail to facial structure - dimples being one example. Look in the mirror. Smile. You'll see dimples! Some may be strong, others more subtle, but they'll be there. Yet some complain this goes too far and prefer to return to the more solid, doll-like appearance.

While there are more, I would think each of these would be perfectly understandable ways of trying to make the characters 'better' while still being the same character. Yet each of these have been complained about. So I ask, where is the limit? Exactly what would you be looking for?

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realism is killing the stylization. having higher quality textures is one thing, but changing the SHAPES of actual character's features is completely different. you can have one and not the other.

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Originally Posted by Averax

I love looking at these comparison shots and the biggest difference is....the lighting....it's really dim in the benchmark character creator for some reason. Most of your characters look almost exactly the same for me.

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Characters here and in other threads have really obvious lip jobs or changes to lips and nose jobs which really isn't the lighting...

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Originally Posted by TheDruidOcelot

realism is killing the stylization. having higher quality textures is one thing, but changing the SHAPES of actual character's features is completely different. you can have one and not the other.

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I don't deny that there are some changes which have left me wondering why they were made at all: changes to positions of hair colouring or the removal of glossy appearance of lips (true, not 'natural' but we have other makeup on characters so I don't see why a little gloss would be out of the realms of reality) are two that spring to mind quickly.

But the point remains that many of the changes being complained about by lots (eye glints, skin texture etc.) are perfectly understandable changes. If even those are considered by some to be out of the question, then exactly what changes would they expect as part of this 'same but better' approach? I do feel that some of these complaints are far too dramatic

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

I don't deny that there are some changes which have left me wondering why they were made at all: changes to positions of hair colouring or the removal of glossy appearance of lips (true, not 'natural' but we have other makeup on characters so I don't see why a little gloss would be out of the realms of reality) are two that spring to mind quickly.

But the point remains that many of the changes being complained about by lots (eye glints, skin texture etc.) are perfectly understandable changes. If even those are considered by some to be out of the question, then exactly what changes would they expect as part of this 'same but better' approach?

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i mean, they deleted elezen cheekbones and took away keeper miqote fangs, they changed the apparent luminosity of eyes as well, not just the glints, they desaturated the iris colors to look 50% as colorful. like those are ALL HUGE changes that should never have happened. the glints and skin textures wouldn't be so noticeable and abrasive if they didnt also take away all the other stylization from the characters by smoothing everything to an absolute absurd level.

EDIT: my final, clarifying, statement on the matter, because its getting to be a cyclical argument.

look. the public facing PR team swore up and down they wouldn't make people's characters look so different they couldn't be recognized. but that's what's happened.

so, because of the emotional response of feeling lied to, people are more upset than they would be if the pr team hadn't gone and made promises they knew couldn't be kept. (or could have been kept but they chose not to, because they seemingly decided the existing stylization was ugly, despite saying they didn't want characters to look realistic.)

the emotional response to being blatantly lied to is combining with the obvious disappointment at characters looking absolutely like different people than they looked like (and the bias against dark skinned characters, making them look literally grey is not at all good.)

so people are 3-5x as upset as they would have been if they had not chosen to make those public statements. even if they were just hypetrain pr fluff, they are retroactively lies. because they did not ever update with a "ok so they're going to be much more different than they were before, we're very sorry. a fantasia might not actually fix it." which would have been the better option. to be humble and actually apologize, or delay the graphical improvements until they could be done with the care and attention they actually deserved, rather than the slapdash nonsense that is being shown in the benchmark. They would have known just how different it is BEFORE the las vegas fanfest, and they made choices that obfuscated that fact.

that doesn't reflect kindly on the PR team or devs.

Did I accidentally hit the jackpot, after watching it in the benchmark face 4 male seekers seem entirely unchanged, they just have higher textures and better lighting

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Originally Posted by TheDruidOcelot

i mean, they deleted elezen cheekbones and took away keeper miqote fangs, they changed the apparent luminosity of eyes as well, not just the glints, they desaturated the iris colors to look 50% as colorful. like those are ALL HUGE changes that should never have happened. the glints and skin textures wouldn't be so noticeable and abrasive if they didnt also take away all the other stylization from the characters by smoothing everything to an absolute absurd level.

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THIS!!! It's so jarring to see my elezen's high, sharp cheekbones smoothed out to nothingness, not to mention other issues like artifacting on au ra scales (how do you mess this in particular up. y'all had one job with au ra scales). These are things that someone looked at and went "yep, looks good" which is baffling to me

Thankfully, the benchmark is a self-admitted work in progress. This is why the forums are so important. I have posted the very obvious, grating changes to my characters in other threads, but reading through this one I see that I'm not alone. I also see that many people were lucky enough to not have their characters drastically altered, or are indifferent to the changes! I would say to all of the people saying "just use the free fantasia" to please remember that some of us are playing characters with the darkest skintone, the fullest lips, the darkest hair. We have no where to "change" to.

There is no reason that jet black hair should be grey (and in the effort of arguing realism, I have black hair in real life ; it's not grey in the sunlight, and it's not grey at dusk) just as there is no reason to lighten skintones. Even most of the lip textures seemed to be placed wrong, either thinning lips or making them fuller (in the case of femra)

I do hope the team gets in here and sees complaints. There's some serious issues going on with lighting, and when it's egregious, it's (really) egregious. I'm trying to stay positive, though!

They could have kept everything intact but make them high res with better effects in eyes, lips, and skin. Because this isnt a huge graphical update anyway....

Unlike in some other games I have played where the graphic update really changed everything. So in my opinion if they want to make things the same, then make it the same (use old model as baseline) but with higher details. When it comes into character model, its either you do a big update (like WoW did) or a minor update (higher res, textures, and effects) imo. Something in between will always result in complains.

In some of the complains you can see how even changing eyes or lips a little resulted in a different character. Its neither here or there and just odd.

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

I'm curious and perhaps you could enlighten me, but where is the line drawn between 'make them better' and 'keep them the same'? Where is the limit? At what point are they no longer the same character?

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As the game currently is, male and female viera have smoother face textures than the older races. Upscaling the older races' would have been a less drastic but probably more welcome beautification. Did they need to mess with the shapes of lips? To remove fangs? To make eyebrows and eyelashes thinner?

The free fantasia is welcome for my hrothgal alt, sure, but Im sad that after waiting so many years for male vieras they get wrecked 1 expansion after their implementation.

Literally who cares? SE won't rollback the new changes because they know 99% of the player base uses mods/reshades and they endorse it by looking away.

Just wait for the mare lamentorum bunnies to fix everything.

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Originally Posted by TheDruidOcelot

i mean, they deleted elezen cheekbones and took away keeper miqote fangs, they changed the apparent luminosity of eyes as well, not just the glints, they desaturated the iris colors to look 50% as colorful. like those are ALL HUGE changes that should never have happened. the glints and skin textures wouldn't be so noticeable and abrasive if they didnt also take away all the other stylization from the characters by smoothing everything to an absolute absurd level.

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Funnily, I have the opposite problem with my Viera: her eyes having gone from a deep blue to almost neon! And the eye shape appears to have been changed somewhat too, but that I can live with. We're being given fantasia to change such things as eye colour (which will be the first thing on my list).
However, I appreciate that physicalities of facial features are harder to change as the alternatives available may look worse than the changed version and options are limited.

As I said, there have been changes which I dislike of my own characters and I do agree there are some things which are questionable of why they were changed at all. However, the point remains that this is a very subjective topic and one which some players seem to be taking to extremes. Hopefully a balance can be found which pleases the majority, but for that to be the case, I think some players need to be a little more flexible on accepting some changes. When there's some complaining of 'pores too visible' or even just something as vague as 'lost charm', it's going to be difficult to find a compromise

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

Literally who cares? SE won't rollback the new changes because they know 99% of the player base uses mods/reshades and they endorse it by looking away.

Just wait for the mare lamentorum bunnies to fix everything.

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This is not necessarily true. The Japanese fanbase, for instance, is very adamant about their anti-mod stance and players go so far as to shutting down in-game photo studios if someone with a modded character uses their hashtag. And judging by the responses I'm seeing on twitter, this benchmark has been quite contentious around the globe. The first complaints I saw this morning were from Japanese twitter users. Western, mod-using fans are not the only people who play this game (and even if they were, I still think the integrity of vanilla characters matters.)

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

I'm curious and perhaps you could enlighten me, but where is the line drawn between 'make them better' and 'keep them the same'? Where is the limit? At what point are they no longer the same character?

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Changing the face shape should not have happened at all.

I am actually very happy with how my characters look right now and I don't think changing them was necessary.

What I would expect from an upgrade would be sorting out any issues with pixellation or rough edges, maybe improving the shadows and the way light sometimes behaves oddly.

There should be no change to the character's overall face shape or expression, because that is what gives a character their personality.

If I had the power to set people on graphic updates to the characters and gear, it would be customisation things: hats for Viera and Hrothgar (if there is no actual deep-seated programming issue blocking it) and customising things to better suit individual races: review Miqo'te hats to add earholes or pockets and make sure they actually fit the ears; likewise for Elezen and Lalafell; review hairstyles for each race and adjust them so they make sense – fix things that float off the head, fail to account for non-human ears or have Au Ra growing sideburns directly out of their cheek scales.

As it is, I feel like the character of my characters has been altered, while actual visual issues remain unfixed.

Already posted this in a different thread for screenshots, but we're not happy with it at all. Some of my characters, my friends' characters, and my siblings' characters are drastically changed. Sure some might think they look better, or that it isn't that different, but they're not the same characters we've all played with since 1.0/2.0 and 3.0 (in the case of au ra). So below are some comparisons and comments by the respective players:

https://i.imgur.com/SQQRKDJ.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/3nGkNHr.png
Here SE made the nostrils bigger, the philtrum smaller, the lips no longer have the tubercles, the oral commissure is less pronounced/barely visible, the bridge of the nose has changed entirely, the nostrils are wider and rounder, epicanthal folds were shortened and receded.
He looks soulless, aged, unhappy, like he's had blepharoplasty and rhinoplasty by force at the hands of some Steppe butcher. It's as if all of the characters' happiness and spirit was sucked out of them and shoved into their nostrils.
This is a character my brother helped design before passing away, so I'm especially displeased with how he's so drastically changed. It's not just different textures, his facial structure is affected. He looks similar, yes, but it's not the same character.
Also, his eyelashes are gone.. why?
https://imgsli.com/MjU2MTAw

Here's another picture of the same face, both using nose 6- before and after 7.0's changes.
https://i.imgur.com/YQAij3L.png
Some races have a nose that was taller before and gets noticeably shorter after, or the opposite issue of this image.

https://i.imgur.com/KQAUjyz.png
She doesn't even look like the same character, the lips look completely different, the philtrum is wider and more pronounced, the lips aren't as full and the nose looks more like they went for a Disney look rather than something that fits in the game. The eyes are okay, but the pupils are a bit wider now.. which looks strange if you've gotten used to looking at how they used to look
Her bottom lip seems to lack the "plump" that it used to have, as well.

https://i.imgur.com/fQnhM46.jpeg
This character is meant to be childish and alien looking, made by someone who at the time was a child. She looks like she's been given a redesign to look softer, conventionally attractive, and generally more appealing to men- yet somehow more uncanny and creepy.

Why are the nose shapes changing so much? You can increase the quality of a model without altering its aesthetic to this degree.

Additionally, everything looks washed out. The makeup is less drastic even on the dark settings with saturated colours. There's more shine on skin where it feels weird and oily and the shine from glossy lips has been almost entirely removed.
Certain light hair colours don't look good now;
https://i.imgur.com/xfNoDCa.jpeg

Another example where the shape of the lips and nose were changed rather than upscaled;
https://i.imgur.com/XuXZtyx.png
She's making a 2000s duckface.

This persons' duskwight looks like someone ripped the textures from the other older-looking male elezen face and put them onto the only youthful one
https://i.imgur.com/AQoF0bT.png

These are the *exact* same options on one character, the only difference is the new graphical 'update'. They're not even close to the same.
https://i.imgur.com/VfCM653.png

I know none of this will be amended either prior to or after the release of 7.0, but it's another dissatisfaction drop we've all had among many in the bucket with the direction being taken for FF14 right now.

I posted in another thread, but I figure it won't hurt to post here too. I cannot find the words to describe how bad these changes are. She looks like a completely different person. Every one of her features has lost their definition, her lips are the wrong shape, her eyebrows and eye shadow are weak, I could go on but the pics speak for themselves.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...d7d6e7823143a&https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...78079a086bbc1&

I will say... I get why people are unhappy, but it's really frustrating to see comparisons that don't have matching light conditions.

Sachiko's comparisons are really good, Mara's are not.

It's frustrating because it makes some of the comparisons feel misleading and if I didn't know better, I'd think they were made in bad faith. Many people are posting correct comparisons to talk about their grievances, so why are some people not really bothering to do so? If this is important to you and you want to give the best feedback, take the time to make sure your comparisons are accurate.

Some of you people need glasses. The lighting is not reshaping mouths and noses. The lighting is not sanding down Miqo'te fangs. A ton of parts were completely changed in their design. Trying to say its all just a misunderstanding of lighting is disingenuous, have some standards for once.

I'm noticing I'm having to include a lot more red when picking skin colors to avoid the waxy look, even for darker skin colors. I think this is a result of skin behaving more 'realistically' in DT.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

I will say... I get why people are unhappy, but it's really frustrating to see comparisons that don't have matching light conditions.

Sachiko's comparisons are really good, Mara's are not.

It's frustrating because it makes some of the comparisons feel misleading and if I didn't know better, I'd think they were made in bad faith. Many people are posting correct comparisons to talk about their grievances, so why are some people not really bothering to do so? If this is important to you and you want to give the best feedback, take the time to make sure your comparisons are accurate.

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https://i.imgur.com/M70lUgt.png

I posted on another topic but here's my mine with the gamma matching the original. I know for me, my only issue is my eyebrows as I feel they've been thinned out a bit much lol. But yeah, gamma corrections aside, I think some faces had some changes that are a bit offputting for some folks.

Okay. Reading through this thread is a trip and a half because I literally don't know what half of you are talking about...
Black hair is grey? I was literally asking myself why my character (with black hair) had so much darker hair in the bench mark then live game. His hair is PITCH BLACK, so dark I can't even see the detail of it.
Perhaps you should all check the settings you are using the benchmark. Check your gamma. It's probably way off from your game settings. A lot of you would probably be a lot happier if you imported your settings directly from the live game, gamma and all, in regards to the already existing settings.
I also commented about how much more life was in my character's eyes now, and how much more expression he had in the race specific emotes in the creator. Male viera look bored and dead in the live game, but in the benchmark they actually look like they FEEL something.

It's not perfect and yes there are issues with some textures they need to fix. But some of you do really need to take a step back and double check your settings.

90% of the 'my character looks like a different person' I'm seeing, they literally look like the exact same picture, or lighting position is causing all the issues they are pointing out. I get it, you're emotional about your characters, but take a step back, take a deep breath and reallllly look at it and think about it. Some of you, yeah okay... there are rare cases where WTF happened? but most of them are really not that different.

I'm personally happy that the lipgloss is gone BUT I wish it was optional - lipstick with gloss as well as lipstick without gloss.
It's a feature for character creator that should have been options added forever ago.
I very much like the matte lipstick in the benchmark, because lipgloss has been plagued with a metallic look in certain lighting or would appear to have a 'glow' and looked awkward.

Other two issues I have are Why are the eyebrows so much lighter & thinner in the DT benchmark?
I chose the hair color for my miqo bc it was the perfect balance of darker eyebrow and lighter hair without it being too light or her eyebrows disappearing.
Now, in the benchmark, I'd have to darken her hair for the sake of her eyebrows, which then blends in too much with her skin.
Why can't we just have eyebrow color separated from hair color?? Why the devs make such things, even insignificant ones a bigger hassle than they should be?
With my complains set aside, I do love the glow up my miqo does have in the DT benchmark. I am swooning over her, but would also love to have subtle things fixed like eyebrows and fangs.


eyebrows in EW:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...648e1fde70e82&

eyebrows in DT benchmark:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...a4712af25426a&

my characters feel like entirely different people to me now. they lack the personality i felt they had, and in a lot of places have had their eyes/lips/nose literally change shape or move.

No it isn't just lighting, i ran through the benchmark with them and no matter the angle or lighting they feel like extremely different characters.
My Au'ra, for example;

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88...tXtlVjytGMWZG4
https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88...3kKWEiC9DhWvBA

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Originally Posted by justausername

Okay. Reading through this thread is a trip and a half because I literally don't know what half of you are talking about...
Black hair is grey? I was literally asking myself why my character (with black hair) had so much darker hair in the bench mark then live game. His hair is PITCH BLACK, so dark I can't even see the detail of it.
Perhaps you should all check the settings you are using the benchmark. Check your gamma.

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I'm not replying to argue, but to show you that my characters with black hair no longer have black hair. My settings are the exact same. I have included color swatches, and the swatches are picked from the same place. I think it's quite obvious that the hair has been lightened. This was also an issue with black hair in Baldur's Gate 3 ; it's not uncommon in these newer "realistic" takes on hair despite not being realistic at all.

https://jmp.sh/0Nxsjoaz+

I am genuinely happy for those who experienced the exact opposite of me! In some cases, I have seen skintones darken rather than lighten, and in others I have seen hair darken rather than lighten. It seems very hit or miss.

Hello, I am a veteran player of FFXIV. After many years of playing the game, this is my first time posting on the forums.

https://files.catbox.moe/xylvkc.png
On the left is my character in the current graphics engine.
On the right is how she looks in the graphics update.
Almost all facial definition has been lost, and the previously consistent subtle undershadow defining the nose is gone, with the new lighting giving it a distinctly piglike appearance.
It is not a gamma issue.

https://files.catbox.moe/assow3.png
https://files.catbox.moe/80wppi.png
Although I am happy with the lipstick texture being darker and more defined, its shape has changed drastically, and the new lip geometry unfortunately hides the upper lip from view from most angles.

https://files.catbox.moe/ljrsr4.png
https://files.catbox.moe/a1ksce.png
The first image is what I expected my character to look like. The second image is the actual screenshot taken by the benchmark.

I am not going to waste words, because I feel that the problems with this are self-evident. I am simply asking politely. Please fix it. I do not want my character to look like this.

I certainly think there are a lot of issues, but I don't really get all the doom and gloom surrounding this, as it's a work in progress and given the outcry I imagine they will try to fix these issues. The vast majority seem to be related to a poor recreation of the old models with the new, Ultimately though I think they just need to tweak the new models to have more defined facial features to better match the old ones. As many have pointed out they didn't do so well and smoothed/altered a lot of the features way too much. It's good that we are pointing out specific cases though as it can show them which parts, exactly, to change. There are also clearly some texturing issues and lack of skin imperfections that make the skin look waxy and plastic-y.

Given that most of the complaints are about models and shader parameters, I genuinely think they can fix the vast majority of complaints before Dawntrail. That being said I think the devs should ABSOLUTELY focus fixing these issues before release because it's clear a lot of the changes have completely changed a lot of characters.

I was lucky enough that my character wasn't affected that much, but from the screenshots posted I can absolutely see why people are upset. I just don't think we should be thinking that these changes are permanent yet, because they haven't said that they aren't open to making any more changes. I think we should wait to see how square responds before making any conclusions about quitting the game or anything like that. If they can use this criticism to solve the issues, we should be good :)

I think the rest of the game seems to look great, at least. I don't think they should revert things back to the way they were with everything, but the characters certainly need to be polished up.

Edit: Some spelling and grammar

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Originally Posted by Thais

https://i.imgur.com/M70lUgt.png

I posted on another topic but here's my mine with the gamma matching the original. I know for me, my only issue is my eyebrows as I feel they've been thinned out a bit much lol. But yeah, gamma corrections aside, I think some faces had some changes that are a bit offputting for some folks.

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This is another good one. Someone mentioned male characters looking really different, and... yeah, eyebrows will do that.

Most of the issues I'm seeing, I feel have to do with assets being altered too much rather than being a better version of their older selves. This may be why some people are calling their character "a different person". It's also true that some faces got it better than others, and taste being a subjective thing, everyone's milage may vary.

In hindsight, I think it would have been a smart idea for SE to release a character creator way earlier in the development cycle, to bounce back feedback and see what people thought as they went, making progressive updates instead of hitting us with a single thing two months before launch. A bit late for that.

I just wish people didn't get so... tribal about everything. I don't understand why some people are being antagonistic towards people with issues. People love their characters, and have concerns. They have a right to voice them. On the other hand, some people complaining seem to be dismissing some of the most wonderful changes outright, and it makes me sad, because technically, there was a lot of good work done here.

Unlike some people, and despite the fact that I absolutely love the upgrade, I've tried to remain understanding and fair when interacting with the topic today. I just hope to be permitted the same courtesy from the other side of the argument. I'm not trying to grift people when I ask for accurate comparisons. I just think they're better to point out issues, and better for feedback too. Verrot and Sosoma's comparisons are also really good.

I'm a bit tired and I don't know if I'm running out of posts, but I don't think there's much more I can contribute to the topic in general.

Once again, I wish the best for everyone. Take care.

I ran the benchmark a few times and made some semblance of peace that my chars won't be the same....
I honestly wish they remove the glossy effect that goes over the lips and nose bridge, the chars look 'ok' in shadow but the moment they face ahead w/ direct facing light it feels like they get this uncanny/waxy look. Some shots including the first one on the ship is the mother of uncanny valley to me, something feels extremely eerie about it, perhaps it's the lack of eye shine ?

All in all, I couldn't get a good close up look at my char inside the benchmark with one exception and that one is the serial killer vibe at the start.

I miss my bright limbal rings on my aura and her cute fish face lips...Something just isn't the same. I wish they'd add more mouth options with stuff that look similar to how the old stuff looks. It'll make people happy I think...

These aren't my girls, they're 'look alikes', the intensity in their eyes feel duller now. My aura got hit hardest because she has black hair and the new update washed out alot of the black..

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Originally Posted by decomposer

I'm not replying to argue, but to show you that my characters with black hair no longer have black hair.

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You're definitely correct that it looks lighter. Not sure if that's the actual color or just the new lighting playing off of it.

Personally I always use black hair and I really like the change there. In the retail version black hair is often just a big black glob unless you put highlights in it. In the benchmark you can have fully black hair and still make out all the details.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

I will say... I get why people are unhappy, but it's really frustrating to see comparisons that don't have matching light conditions.

Sachiko's comparisons are really good, Mara's are not.

It's frustrating because it makes some of the comparisons feel misleading and if I didn't know better, I'd think they were made in bad faith. Many people are posting correct comparisons to talk about their grievances, so why are some people not really bothering to do so? If this is important to you and you want to give the best feedback, take the time to make sure your comparisons are accurate.

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Can you please elaborate on this? Both of these screenshots were taken in the character creator of the benchmark and current game, and I made sure to match the angle and orientation to the environment as closely as I possibly could. I also have the same graphics settings in both. What should I change to get a more accurate comparison?

Damn that's why the benchmark focus on our faces right at beginning
it's like a new persona telling us "yes, i murdered your old virtual self. What you gonna do?"
damn...pure evil