Echoes of Vana'diel FFXI Alliance Raid

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Originally Posted by Tracewood

The gearsets might be a bit too plain/pixelated with how well they've been doing textures since Shadowbringers. We have a taste of XI gear from Eureka with Osode, Optical Hat, Scorpion Harness, and I think the boots and cassie earring?

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There's also these

https://i.imgur.com/ktZjPZ4.png

https://i.imgur.com/APmGq3C.jpg

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

I haven't finished it quite yet, because it just got completed this year and I'm slow.

But it's basically something called World Eater Eggs are hatching incredibly powerful monster from before times, and I think it winds up being called Chaos, but I haven't seen if it's an FF1 reference or not (also I haven't see the specifics on if it's actually from the egg or not, there's a lot of details I don't know about).

It has loads of Blue Magic, is related to Odin and Valhalla somehow, and it can only be killed with a Prime weapon (new and final ultimate weapons that require a laborious daily grinding session in Sortie that get in the way of armor and other upgrades because they all cost the same currency you get from Sortie. They have the appearance of old relic weapons but in black).

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Oh so like the 4th story where Odin has his mits all over it.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I hope all the gear is just FFXI gear,...

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Isn't the Caster/Healer hood (the red one) and the black chest piece for all the other roles that you can get from Eureka (the token turn in "starter" gear) all FF11 gear? And the Shattoto staff?

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Isn't the Caster/Healer hood (the red one) and the black chest piece for all the other roles that you can get from Eureka (the token turn in "starter" gear) all FF11 gear? And the Shattoto staff?

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Yes, Kirin's Osode and Vermillion Cloak are gear straight from FFXI, as well as Shantotto's Rod that drops from Penny. The others were already mentioned here: Optical Hat, Scorp Harness, and the Strider Boots.

e: everyone mentioning Maat... I don't wanna fight him because then I'll just be salty lol. I'll just throw him into an abyss instead, he deserves it.

All this talk of FFXI makes me desperate for it to come to console. It is a old game but one which I loved dearly. It is such a shame they scrapped the remake but I guess it would not have been the same. If they redid it with a bit of a graphical update and fixed the UI give it to consoles then I would be playing it.

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Originally Posted by rainichan

Yes, Kirin's Osode and Vermillion Cloak are gear straight from FFXI, as well as Shantotto's Rod that drops from Penny. The others were already mentioned here: Optical Hat, Scorp Harness, and the Strider Boots.

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Also technically this one

https://i.imgur.com/ZGeaxA6.jpg

most of king behemoth rewards too (spear/earring/ring)

"We've decided to bring some of FFXI into FFXIV with our new raid series! The first one is Valkrum Dunes, the second one is Delkfut's Tower, and what trilogy would not be complete without the Crawlers Nest! See such epic fights as Joe whats-his-name accidently pulling the entire crawlers nest on his way out and running past your leveling party!"

Me: "Wow, they captured FFXI perfectly..."

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Originally Posted by Colt47

"We've decided to bring some of FFXI into FFXIV with our new raid series! The first one is Valkrum Dunes, the second one is Delkfut's Tower, and what trilogy would not be complete without the Crawlers Nest! See such epic fights as Joe whats-his-name accidently pulling the entire crawlers nest on his way out and running past your leveling party!"

Me: "Wow, they captured FFXI perfectly..."

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Ngl this made me lol

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Originally Posted by Luluna

All this talk of FFXI makes me desperate for it to come to console. It is a old game but one which I loved dearly. It is such a shame they scrapped the remake but I guess it would not have been the same. If they redid it with a bit of a graphical update and fixed the UI give it to consoles then I would be playing it.

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You mean back on console as it started out on the PS2. Why it looks the way it does.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

There's also these

https://i.imgur.com/ktZjPZ4.png

https://i.imgur.com/APmGq3C.jpg

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When did they start adding XI gear to Eureka?

I remember doing some Eureka back in the day but I do not ever recall seeing XI gear there. I can remember enjoying Eureka, but I remember it used to have to be a massive group raid type thing. So you couldn't always find people who wanted to do it.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

When did they start adding XI gear to Eureka?

I remember doing some Eureka back in the day but I do not ever recall seeing XI gear there. I can remember enjoying Eureka, but I remember it used to have to be a massive group raid type thing. So you couldn't always find people who wanted to do it.

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The first Eureka zone had a bunch of bits from XI no?

Assuming my memory stands correctly, I remember at least getting the Emperor's hairpin and Strider boots lookalikes from there, I suspect there might have been more too?

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

When did they start adding XI gear to Eureka?

I remember doing some Eureka back in the day but I do not ever recall seeing XI gear there. I can remember enjoying Eureka, but I remember it used to have to be a massive group raid type thing. So you couldn't always find people who wanted to do it.

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That gear actually is from around Heavensward I think, it's the crafted Wootz sets, there's also role-reversed Titanium sets.

Eureka had FFXI items from the start. I don't remember Pyros having anything other than the Elvaan minion, and most of the Hydatos stuff is from Baldesion Arsenal, but Anemos and Pagos both had a few things (Emperor Hairpin, Scorpion Harness, Strider Boots, Optical Hat, Cassie Earring, Speed Belt).

Ohhh it's crafted, that's why.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Ohhh it's crafted, that's why.

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Yeah I've had that set for years, the Wootz Cuirass specifically was my main PLD glam for many years, and I still use the whole set as my WAR glam (because the Koenig set it was based on in FFXI had a similar appearence to the Adamant set I used as my WAR gear in FFXI for many years, and so nostalgia comes through).

Incidentally Arenvald in the MSQ wore the Wootz set as his actual armour so there is precedent for it being more than just "glam gear that has it's origins in FFXI".

I wouldn't mind getting the CoP low level gear. Especially Eisenplatte, but I also spent a lot of time wearing the Seer's set and I'm kinda fond of it.

https://i.imgur.com/CaNtk3Z.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/QGVTxNC.png

I wonder if multiple healing/casting gear being that same model would irritate all the non-FFXI enjoyers. I always liked it in XI since it looks like a comfy hoodie.

I haven't played XI so I don't really know what to expect in terms of bosses, and story, but I do hope it's better tuned than the Myths raids. Like the mechanics of the Myths bosses were fine, but I feel the mechanics need to come out a little faster, and the bosses need just a bit more HP.

Absolute Virtue was fun in BA, and I hope it makes a return either as an alliance raid boss or an S/SS rank hunt mark.

I have a lot to say about the Myth raid mechanics (or lack thereof), but that's not for this thread.

I really do hope the mechanics will be similar to Ivalice. More actual alliance raid mechanics that require the alliance to split into three groups, more individual responsibility mechanics, etc. And like Mallleable said, just... fast in general (like Hashmal, for example). As for HP... that depends on how long the battle team designs the fight (if it repeats attacks after 4 minutes, then their HP will be low).

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I wonder if multiple healing/casting gear being that same model would irritate all the non-FFXI enjoyers. I always liked it in XI since it looks like a comfy hoodie.

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Eh, healers and casters are used to having to glam over what we get anyway. I haven't really seen anything in this thread so far that would appeal to me so I know I'd be doing that.

It should play this song if you die in the raid.

And also retroactively in Eureka probably. I also thought Eureka (Pagos specifically) should've given us the title "Frozen Dead Body", maybe they could add some memorable FFXI titles to these raids. It'd probably be hard to make "Vampire Hunter D Minus" make sense thematically though.

Few items on my wishlist to see with this storyline....

1. The Playonline Dolphin theme as an orchestrion
2. Shantto returns (preferably playing a large role)
3. Lots of great gear from FFXI like the Dalmatica, Salvage armor sets and the Noble's Tunic


Also something I would absolutely love is if the Dawntrail relic weapon line introduces Naja. Her and Rowena would make a great team.

Personally I feel kind of neutral towards the Echoes of Vana'diel Alliance Raid right now because I never played FFXI and do not know too much of that game's story or lore.
Hopefully they implement it better than the Nier Raid into the world of FFXIV.

Wonder if this will include notable NPC's from FFXI as well like...

Zied
Lyon
Prishe
Shantotto
Maat...

From the name Echoes of Vana'diel, It could be likely to involve Atomos and maybe Kupofried.
If that is the case, the "main cast" would probably be caith sith and Lilisette.

In the XI main characters, we kinda have 3 "travelers" : Shantoto, Lilisette and Iroha ; those are likely candidates. Another case could be made for Lion and Prishe.
Thus Aphmau and Arciela are less likely to be involved.

For the gear rewards, Abjurations are likely, so are Salvage.
XI best gears was JSE, but it's unlikely since the jobs don't match exactly between the games.
Another I would like are RSE but like JSE they don't exactly match the current XIV races.

For mount/minions, we still don't have hume/galka minions ; we also don't any of the sea critters, so there's that option.

For songs, probably Vana'diel march and Memoro de la stono.
It's unlikely but I'd like Heavens tower and Pso'xja. (Movalpolos too but we'll probably get this one with the tribal quests)

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Ohhh it's crafted, that's why.

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Go to the marketboard, try on everything in the list. It's the best way for finding loads of glamours.

I'd be surprised if Castle Zvahl and the Shadow lord are not in one of the raids, as well as some reference to Dynamis areas. I hope they stick to Zilart, Chains of Promathia, Aht Urghan locales though because those were peak XI days. Wings of the Goddess was okay but that's when XI started falling off.

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Originally Posted by Calysto

From the name Echoes of Vana'diel, It could be likely to involve Atomos and maybe Kupofried.
If that is the case, the "main cast" would probably be caith sith and Lilisette.

In the XI main characters, we kinda have 3 "travelers" : Shantoto, Lilisette and Iroha ; those are likely candidates. Another case could be made for Lion and Prishe.
Thus Aphmau and Arciela are less likely to be involved.

For the gear rewards, Abjurations are likely, so are Salvage.
XI best gears was JSE, but it's unlikely since the jobs don't match exactly between the games.
Another I would like are RSE but like JSE they don't exactly match the current XIV races.

For mount/minions, we still don't have hume/galka minions ; we also don't any of the sea critters, so there's that option.

For songs, probably Vana'diel march and Memoro de la stono.
It's unlikely but I'd like Heavens tower and Pso'xja. (Movalpolos too but we'll probably get this one with the tribal quests)

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Given it's an alliance raid we'll likely get things that can cover a role like the abjuration gear. IMO I would have preferred a crossover with FFXI to be an exploratory zone quest line simply because that would have given room for a lot more crossover content like the JSE/RSE, possibly relic throwbacks, and glamour costumes for the various noteworthy NPCs. It would have also allowed more of the game's noteworthy enemies to appear as well.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

IMO I would have preferred a crossover with FFXI to be an exploratory zone quest line simply because that would have given room for a lot more crossover content like the JSE/RSE, possibly relic throwbacks, and glamour costumes for the various noteworthy NPCs. It would have also allowed more of the game's noteworthy enemies to appear as well.

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I'm hoping they'll do more than the usual amount for an alliance raid, but yeah, it's tough to think of a way for me to get an Opaline Dress out of this. Or RSE, or AF gear. Or the Selbina music.

I should probably set my expectations lower just so I don't get overhyped for it. Like the first raid we're going to get leather armor, scale mail, and robes with windshear hats, and the final boss will be the dark dragon and seeker.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I'm hoping they'll do more than the usual amount for an alliance raid, but yeah, it's tough to think of a way for me to get an Opaline Dress out of this. Or RSE, or AF gear. Or the Selbina music.

I should probably set my expectations lower just so I don't get overhyped for it. Like the first raid we're going to get leather armor, scale mail, and robes with windshear hats, and the final boss will be the dark dragon and seeker.

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Wonder if this alliance raid will feature FFXI beastmen races. Orcs, Yagudo, Quadav and draw inspiration from Dynamis ending in a battle against the Shadowlord.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

That and XI has some things you fight in it that would need some explanations. Such as how in XI their Cloud of Darkness was practically the Endsinger but instead of singing a song of Oblivion and destroying all the planets it just took the Galactus route. Or how at the end of Seekers you fight and kill Hades. I stopped playing after Rhapsodies ended so I'm not knowledgeable on the most recent story that was added. I am with you in the please integrate this into XIV the same way Ivalice was and for it to make sense as to how or why we're fighting whomever or whatever we'll be fighting. As I've said before there's a lot of story beats from XI that XIV has also done in its own way that I'm having a hard time thinking of something. At the moment it feels more like it'd be something closer to what we got with Omega during the Sigma and Delta scape parts. Which was a mixed bag of success in being a positive response.

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While I think there are definitely more important bosses to feature like the Shadow Lord, Eald'narche/Kam'Lanaut, Promathia, Lilith...this design is just so freaking cool. I would not mind Cloud of Darkness Part 3 at all.

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Originally Posted by Eisi

Hey, what if it's both a FFXIV version of Vana'diel that happens to live on another shard?

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I think this is just the natural conclusion Vana'diel wants to be in XIV.

It can't be a region in the Source because that would just be weird. But it would likely be a "XIV Version" of Vana'diel just like Ivalice is. So putting the "XIV Vana'diel" onto a shard just makes sense.

Not to mention, the game is somewhat begging to explore other shards after 6.x wrapped up the First and the Thirteenth. I would be very surprised if we did not end up checking out other shards, I think isolated side stories like alliance raids are the perfect venue to do so, and it seems XI is the perfect introduction to that concept.

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

I think this is just the natural conclusion Vana'diel wants to be in XIV.

It can't be a region in the Source because that would just be weird. But it would likely be a "XIV Version" of Vana'diel just like Ivalice is. So putting the "XIV Vana'diel" onto a shard just makes sense.

Not to mention, the game is somewhat begging to explore other shards after 6.x wrapped up the First and the Thirteenth. I would be very surprised if we did not end up checking out other shards, I think isolated side stories like alliance raids are the perfect venue to do so, and it seems XI is the perfect introduction to that concept.

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i mean, its been shown in the event from 2.0 that there is a connection as shantotto from windhurst made her appearance her in Eorzea.

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

I think this is just the natural conclusion Vana'diel wants to be in XIV.

It can't be a region in the Source because that would just be weird. But it would likely be a "XIV Version" of Vana'diel just like Ivalice is. So putting the "XIV Vana'diel" onto a shard just makes sense.

Not to mention, the game is somewhat begging to explore other shards after 6.x wrapped up the First and the Thirteenth. I would be very surprised if we did not end up checking out other shards, I think isolated side stories like alliance raids are the perfect venue to do so, and it seems XI is the perfect introduction to that concept.

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Funny thought that crossed my mind is that since it seems the shards draw inspiration from previous FF games, and we're getting an FF16 crossover, and the 2 primary influences responsible for maintaining the shard balance are gone, does that mean shards are potentially breaking into additional shards? I mean they could have 1 be based on FF6 and say the 16th shard was created when a certain mad clown created his own catastrophe brining ruin to the world to rule as a mad god.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Funny thought that crossed my mind is that since it seems the shards draw inspiration from previous FF games, and we're getting an FF16 crossover, and the 2 primary influences responsible for maintaining the shard balance are gone, does that mean shards are potentially breaking into additional shards? I mean they could have 1 be based on FF6 and say the 16th shard was created when a certain mad clown created his own catastrophe brining ruin to the world to rule as a mad god.

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There never was more than 14, and it was Hydaelyn's power that created them in the first place, so, really if anything they'll just remain as is under inertia, there is certainly no indication anywhere that they'll fracture further (because if that was the case, wouldn't the already rejoined Shards also fracture from the Source?).

And the Shards were never literally other FF worlds (as said repeatedly) - they're simply copies of the Source where things went slightly differently (of course there are some oddities like Baron and Troia in the Thirteenth despite the Thirteenth being based on the Void from FFIII and the Rift from FFV). The other FF games are set in their own independent universes seperate from XIV, they are not the actual Shards at all.

Really, the old 'the Shards are the other FF game worlds!' idea needs to just fade away already as it was never anything more than headcanon based on wishful thinking and coincidence (and was debunked anyway long ago). We're already getting a FFXVI crossover event in a few months, which would probably be the same as the others and underline that fact (that each FF game is a seperate world in a different universe, and will treat the event as such).

It should feature exp loss and deleveling. Really bring back the true dread of dying in game.

This sound is forever etched into my soul.
https://youtu.be/iTIwBDNDO4M

I played FFXI for right at 15 years so maybe I can break this down in an easy to digest format without spoilers for those that want to go back and play XI before this raid hits. The simple fact that Atomos exist is all that's needed to allow XI into XIV. Atomos has full control over time in XI and is used as a primary means for the player to time travel. The raid name itself could be a hint to Atomos as well. In XI, Atomos is an idle watcher of time that floats in the sky of an area called the Walk of Echoes, which is pretty much a limbo area between time. Atomos is responsible for watching over time itself, as well as devouring it if it chooses lol. Atomos was also used in multiple different expansions to set up "what if" scenarios (trying to word that without spoilers lol).

How does this tie FFXI into FFXIV? The simple answer is that Atomos has already been used multiple times in the story for XIV as well. Atomos had to come from somewhere, and my bet isn't on the 13th like the story wants you to think. The Atomos that are in the 13th were most likely just idle watchers like they were in XI and actually originate from the Walk of Echoes. They basically act like a set of linked wormholes capable of moving through every timeline and dimension. Shantotto most likely used Atomos in some way to travel to XIV years ago for the event and she specifically references it in XI as "dimensional travel" while unlocking her trust. Y'shtola (also based on an extremely smart Black Mage similar to Shantotto) found a way to harness Atomos into a gate for Endwalker as well. I couldn't paint a clearer picture of what they are trying to set up if I tried lol.

As far as what I'm expecting from the raid:
Shadow Lord or riot. He is easily the most recurring plot device in many of the expansions. Shadowlord was the boss of base FFXI, Dynamis final boss as the Dynamis Lord, Shadowlord [S] fight via the Fiat Lux battlefield as well as a core part of WotG storyline, Apoc Nigh used him as a plot device, Technically used during Ark Angels story... dude is a very core part of the FFXI story to say the least lol. I think it would be interesting if one of the raids was based on the BCNM Ranked missions from base XI. Ahriman + Dragon for 1 fight, Archlich + a bunch of skeletons for the 2nd fight, then Shadowlord for the final fight.

If they wanted to go above and beyond:
First fight would be ShadowLord and immediately be sucked in by Atomos to the past, 2nd fight would be the spitewardens + Lady Lilith, final fight would be Shadowlord [S].
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If they really wanted to shoehorn XI's story into XIV I think they have enough bullshit to pull from tbh lol. We know that the Ascians lead the source to become shattered with the creation of Meteion (And thus dynamis) which caused the Zodiark + Hydaelyn fight to happen. This also caused the ancients to split into the different races that we have in XIV. Something similar happend in XI as well. There was an ancient race called the Zilart that lived in the gate of the gods that posessed the "Whisper of the Souls", allowing them to communicate telepathically. Sounds almost like the echo huh? However, over time they started becoming overcome by the emptiness and those that lost this ability became known as Kuluu. tl;dr is that the Zilart cause some big boom booms to the primary crystal in Vana'diel and it gets split into 5 weaker crystals. Each crystal created a different race with it. Sounds very similar to what happened with Dynamis and the ancients demise right? Now pair that with Atomos watching over all timelines and tada... you now have FFXI and FFXIV being ripple dimensions.

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Originally Posted by Brixy

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I agree with most all of that, just concerning the Zilarts I kind of remember a different story (but it's been a while)

They wanted to open the Gate of paradise but not because of the emptiness ; they used the crystals for that but I don't remember there being a single crystal at some point

Also concerning Atomos, I wasn't there myself but I think at the end of 1.0 some appeared above aetherites ; had Louisoix not been here, it may have devoured the world I guess (I don't have the full story - if there is one)

I think players should take better notice of the FFXIV story as 6.1 revealed the FFXIV version of Atomos is actually a type of non-sentinent voidsent, specifically it's an odd kind which possess a Voidgate within it's body that allows other voidsent to enter the Source (Y'shtola creates an artificial one in 6.2's main scenario, that the Scions use to brute force the hidden voidgate in Alzaldaal's Legacy open to allow multiple people to enter it at once). Several show up in the Crystal Tower raids earlier in the game as well (again fitting because that also involves the void).

FFXI's Atomos is something completely different, so that would be the clue that this new raid is even less likely to feature the 'real' Vana'diel... and simply be more Hydaelyn-based areas referencing Vana'diel areas in names and themes.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

I think players should take better notice of the FFXIV story as 6.1 revealed the FFXIV version of Atomos is actually a type of non-sentinent voidsent, specifically it's an odd kind which possess a Voidgate within it's body that allows other voidsent to enter the Source (Y'shtola creates an artificial one in 6.2's main scenario, that the Scions use to brute force the hidden voidgate in Alzaldaal's Legacy open to allow multiple people to enter it at once). Several show up in the Crystal Tower raids earlier in the game as well (again fitting because that also involves the void).

FFXI's Atomos is something completely different, so that would be the clue that this new raid is even less likely to feature the 'real' Vana'diel... and simply be more Hydaelyn-based areas referencing Vana'diel areas in names and themes.

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For the XIV lore, they are considered voidsent , but maybe because most on them connect to the void
Atomos does exists on the source and the first, and a similar concept exists in the ancient world.

With that I mainly see 2 options to fit the XIV current lore :
1-Atomos was an ancient concept, it's why it appears in the shards.
2-Much like Dymamis, Etheirys aether was too dense for the Atomos concept to fully manifest, but it already existed.

I'd go option 2 as :
-That would explain why there is a similar concept, yet different from the "complete" Atomos that appears identical in shards.
-The fall of Zod's shield would also explain it's resurgeance in 7.x
-Plainly more interesting than 'the ancients did it' (that also doesn't means it's the XI version, but it's an option)
-The "non-sentient voidsent" explanation still works if you apply primal logic : you get too close to a rift and fuse with it, becoming a primal -> what is the "primal of rifts" ? -> you become an Atomos

I'm excited about doing this Alliance Raid. I don't know if I'll make it that far because I'm redoing alts over and over again and starting (almost) at the beginning (I buy the item to skip the story to the start of Heavensword), but I would really like to find out! I don't know FFXI well, I just fell in love with the Memoro de la Stono song, I didn't know it was an MMO at first. So I can't wait to see what it turns out to be!