Trans Representation in Final Fantasy XIV: The Importance of Inclusivity in Gaming

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

I would like people to keep their political, social, sexual and racial issues out of video games.

Is that really too much to ask for?

We are here to have fun, in an alternate world that DOES NOT NEED real life issues being dragged into it.

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Good luck with that ;/ Sadly, we live in a world where for some, 'silence equals violence', 'impact matters more than intent', and 'everything is political'. In a world where some people base their lives on being perpetual victims, or make finding offense in the most mundane or harmless thing they can find, is it any wonder such things have spilled over into what was once a refuge from the real world, namely gaming? [Just look at the whole Hogwart's thing - suddenly anyone just buying the game is suddenly a transphobic bigot].

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

Good luck with that ;/ Sadly, we live in a world where for some, 'silence equals violence', 'impact matters more than intent', and 'everything is political'. In a world where some people base their lives on being perpetual victims, or make finding offense in the most mundane or harmless thing they can find, is it any wonder such things have spilled over into what was once a refuge from the real world, namely gaming. [Just look at the whole Hogwart's thing - suddenly anyone just buying the game is suddenly a transphobic bigot].

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Basically. You're seeing the world that resulted from people not getting the sense knocked back into them when they needed it.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

I would like people to keep their political, social, sexual and racial issues out of video games.

Is that really too much to ask for?

We are here to have fun, in an alternate world that DOES NOT NEED real life issues being dragged into it.

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I mean, the game already deals with political, social and racial issues... I agree it does not NEED any of these issues (Though an apolitical story game does not exist) and I do not think anyone outside of obvious trolls is even demanding as such. I just fail to see the harm if a quest or two tackels things like a trans character/situation.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Basically. You're seeing the world that resulted from people not getting the sense knocked back into them when they needed it.

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A rolled up news paper and a Swift smack on the nose; “No!” would have done a lot of people some good for the betterment of society

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

I mean, the game already deals with political, social and racial issues... I agree it does not NEED any of these issues (Though an apolitical story game does not exist) but I fail to see the harm if a quest or two tackels things like a trans character/situation.

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Given the nature of this game however I feel it's not really the place to make it an in game issue. Maybe a random NPC admitting they used to be something else before acquiring and drinking a fantasia? Given the presence of magic it essentially rewrites your DNA so that it's like you were always whatever you chose to be after drinking it. Sure mentally you're still the same person just in a different body but wouldn't it be more akin to shape shifting than being trans? The topic of trans representation IMO would fit better in other settings like Fallout, Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, etc that would rely more on technology or surgical practices to reassign gender as opposed to FFXIV where if you feel you are a woman trapped in a man's body, you can just drink a potion and now be a woman in a woman's body.

Though I suppose some decent humor could be had from a story where Thancred pushes Yshtola's buttons a little too much so she turns him into a petite busty girl as punishment...

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

I mean, the game already deals with political, social and racial issues... I agree it does not NEED any of these issues (Though an apolitical story game does not exist) and I do not think anyone outside of obvious trolls is even demanding as such. I just fail to see the harm if a quest or two tackels things like a trans character/situation.

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So, should the story be about the problems experienced politically in such a situation? Which of the City States is going to be the oppressor? Which side the Hero? Or is the villain going to be trans, but changes their ways through the power of Acceptance? Who is going to provide the gender-affirming healthcare in this story? Will it require surgery?

There is so much more time spent on the trans character in The Last of Us part 2 than can be put into an MMORPG. Side-quests or MSQ quests involve a lot of other things, and I don't look forward to any story that just goes "This character is trans" and drops the ball immediately.

It can be done so badly it becomes offensive. Companies do not want to present as "offensive".

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Given the nature of this game however I feel it's not really the place to make it an in game issue. Maybe a random NPC admitting they used to be something else before acquiring and drinking a fantasia? Given the presence of magic it essentially rewrites your DNA so that it's like you were always whatever you chose to be after drinking it. Sure mentally you're still the same person just in a different body but wouldn't it be more akin to shape shifting than being trans? The topic of trans representation IMO would fit better in other settings like Fallout, Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, etc that would rely more on technology or surgical practices to reassign gender as opposed to FFXIV where if you feel you are a woman trapped in a man's body, you can just drink a potion and now be a woman in a woman's body.

Though I suppose some decent humor could be had from a story where Thancred pushes Yshtola's buttons a little too much so she turns him into a petite busty girl as punishment...

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You raise a good point about if such a ‘magic to trans’ story would count, but other fantasy MMOs have done it to varying degrees. If memory serves Guild Wars II had it in the form of a simple quest NPC you save, whom you meat again later on as a different gender. Elder Scrolls Online: Summerset has a quest involving the trans character of Alchemy, that was fantastically written, gave an interesting insight to the lore and was well received (It won the first GLAAD video game award). I think even WoW had a trans questline a while back, but I stopped playing that long ago so cannot say for sure.

I also think you are giving Fantasy too much discredit as a storytelling genre there. One of the reasons it is my favourite genre is because almost no type of story cannot be told. Look at all the topics the game already has told, from classical ‘rags to hero’ plotlines, tales of revenge, fights that look like they come directly from a mecha anime (Yes, I have just played the Sorrow of Werlyt quests…) ect. The only rules a fantasy world needs to abide by are the ones its individual lore sets up, and I personally fail to see how anything in FFXIV bars a possible trans story/character. In the same way it has never bared us having characters that deal with race, poverty, sexisim, sexuality ect.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

So, should the story be about the problems experienced politically in such a situation? Which of the City States is going to be the oppressor? Which side the Hero? Or is the villain going to be trans, but changes their ways through the power of Acceptance? Who is going to provide the gender-affirming healthcare in this story? Will it require surgery?

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Well that would be up to the writer of said quest and if they wanted to make that apart of said story? I am afraid to say I am not a writer for the game, so anything I could say would just be fan-fiction fluff (Though SE/Yoshi, if you need a writer then call me! I had a horror short story pubished once! Go on...) but it could be as simple as a way for a trans character to show they have empathy with someone experiencing bigotry. You do not need to be told the ins and outs of what they have in their pants to justify such a character.

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There is so much more time spent on the trans character in The Last of Us part 2 than can be put into an MMORPG. Side-quests or MSQ quests involve a lot of other things, and I don't look forward to any story that just goes "This character is trans" and drops the ball immediately.

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There is a risk sure, but its about the same as if a sidequest deals with the racism against Wildwood Elezen, or showing a gay couple like the The Wanderer's Palace Unlock quest, or even the Valantines quest which deals with being comfortable in ones own cloths despite outward appearance. The topic rarely decides quality, the writing does.

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It can be done so badly it becomes offensive. Companies do not want to present as "offensive".

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Very true, even with the best of intentions these things can come off offencive (Looking at you, Assassin Creed "We will not force anyone into a hetro relationship- opps yes we did in the DLC sorry!" Odyssey) and it can be done simply as a hollow way to virtual signal from companies that would easily throw the LGBTQ+ community under the bus if they though it would give them more money. Does not mean its something that should not be avoided or attempted. Again, no one outside of obvious trolls are demanding such a thing. Just it should not perhaps be seen as an impossiblity in the next decade of storytelling we have ahead of us.

we here to play the game and talk about the game not start a war of words the last time a player did this it turned into a dumpsterfire and finely died after many necrobumps

Characterization>representation.

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Originally Posted by Demolisher

However, despite the game's efforts to be inclusive, the majority of its characters are still depicted as straight.

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what makes male character flirting with female character straight? they could be bi. do they have to announce "btw i flirt with guys too, wink" for it to be representation?
what makes any cis looking character non-trans? they might have completed their transition and be as trans as they can get. or do they have to make that charming mention ala high guardian spice: "i'm transgender, wink"?
love, another GSRM player
who wants NOTHING to do with current day "queer"/trans activism

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Originally Posted by george357

we here to play the game and talk about the game not start a war of words the last time a player did this it turned into a dumpsterfire and finely died after many necrobumps

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Your privilege is showing.

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Originally Posted by TitanMenII

Your privilege is showing.

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Can't imagine how miserable your life must be to routinely troll a fairly inactive message board.

I think the issue is you are correct is that people use games to escape but when it comes to people's characters they want to be included right? What I do not understand is if you want to feel however you want and see yourself as trans then why not just play as the other gender, that is the end goal for being trans right? There is no need for your character to be trans if it allows you to play as the gender you identify as....or is the thing is that these people identify as a transition and not the gender?

No. Just, no. No more divisive minority politics, please. The western world has enough divisive content, please don't start infesting Japanese art with it too.

honestly being trans myself.. Id rather it not simplely because people will blame us if it does get added... *sigh* only really replying to this because I wish there could be without it turning into a fight that just makes me more depressed than it not doing it simplely because ppl will use it as an excuse to attack...

I disagree with the entire premise that diversity is important to promoting and advancing inclusivity in gaming. It is simply disingenuous and feels forced, which puts everybody offside and encourages division in broader society. Here's a revolutionary idea: how about we treat people as people and stop defining ourselves and others entirely on the basis of sexual preferences or gender identity. You are a human being and your existence is not preconditioned on whether or not a video game has a LGBTQIA2S+ character.

I think a bit of diversity is nice.

But only because growing up I had no idea people from my ethnic group could be anything more than enslaved, impoverished and constantly struggling due to the fictional and non-fictional media I grew up with. I even recall - in middle school - telling another girl that looked like me that she couldn't play a certain role because of her skin tone.

It took me till I was thirteen to realize we could actually ride horses. I genuinely thought we just didn't do that.

If diversity is implemented it should be done tastefully and based off of the author's comfort level and respective culture.

It shouldn't be forced in otherwise you risk making yourself appear ignorant.

In a game originating from the East we shouldn't really expect any huge diversity points. Leave that to games originating from the West where we're actually a proper melting pot and are more open to sexualities, gender identities, etc. Baldurs Gate 3, GW2 - ya know?

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

I think a bit of diversity is nice.

But only because growing up I had no idea people from my ethnic group could be anything more than enslaved, impoverished and constantly struggling due to the fictional and non-fictional media I grew up with. I even recall - in middle school - telling another girl that looked like me that she couldn't play a certain role because of her skin tone.

It took me till I was thirteen to realize we could actually ride horses. I genuinely thought we just didn't do that.

If diversity is implemented it should be done tastefully and based off of the author's comfort level and respective culture.

It shouldn't be forced in otherwise you risk making yourself appear ignorant.

In a game originating from the East we shouldn't really expect any huge diversity points. Leave that to games originating from the West where we're actually a proper melting pot and are more open to sexualities, gender identities, etc. Baldurs Gate 3, GW2 - ya know?

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How old are you, which country did you grow up in, and what is your ethnic/cultural background? You've described circumstances that sound like it's from Confederate States in the 1800s and while I'm not calling you a liar I would like to understand your perspective.

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Originally Posted by Anonemoose

How old are you, which country did you grow up in, and what is your ethnic/cultural background? You've described circumstances that sound like it's from Confederate States in the 1800s and while I'm not calling you a liar I would like to understand your perspective.

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Thank you for the honest inquiry.

I'm 28. And I'm African American. I grew up in the south and in a poor neighborhood. I also grew up watching certain programs due to only having access to basic channels. I do recall a fair amount of BET and basic cartoons.

But I was genuinely ignorant of the heights that I could reach because I just really didn't know. I thought I'd always be in that setting growing up.

Edit ; For clarification about some of the media I was shown as a child - I recall watching Roots in Middle School and Our Friend, Martin in Elementary School. Particularly strong memories as I became super distressed by both.

and your troll is showing also

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

Thank you for the honest inquiry.

I'm 28. And I'm African American. I grew up in the south and in a poor neighborhood. I also grew up watching certain programs due to only having access to basic channels. I do recall a fair amount of BET and basic cartoons.

But I was genuinely ignorant of the heights that I could reach because I just really didn't know. I thought I'd always be in that setting growing up.

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Thank you for sharing this. It's an entirely different upbringing than I had and I wanted to understand your perspective.

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

I think a bit of diversity is nice.

But only because growing up I had no idea people from my ethnic group could be anything more than enslaved, impoverished and constantly struggling due to the fictional and non-fictional media I grew up with. I even recall - in middle school - telling another girl that looked like me that she couldn't play a certain role because of her skin tone.

It took me till I was thirteen to realize we could actually ride horses. I genuinely thought we just didn't do that.

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I'm a big believer in "learning and understanding through shared experience". We're all human beings going through our own human experience. I will admit I was skeptical about what you wrote at first, but given your further explanation it seems more than reasonable.

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

If diversity is implemented it should be done tastefully and based off of the author's comfort level and respective culture.

It shouldn't be forced in otherwise you risk making yourself appear ignorant.

In a game originating from the East we shouldn't really expect any huge diversity points. Leave that to games originating from the West where we're actually a proper melting pot and are more open to sexualities, gender identities, etc. Baldurs Gate 3, GW2 - ya know?

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I completely agree with these ideals and this sentiment. Perpetuating the victim industry and imposing particular viewpoints, expression and speech and forbidding other viewpoints, expression and speech as it relates to any particular demographic causes division and resentment, not acceptance.

Genuine, meaningful human interactions between people - especially with opposing viewpoints - is how you solve complex societal issues of racial and gender divides. Any one particular side getting into authority so as to impose its will on others and crush dissent is not.

For what it's worth, it's a testament to your character to believe this despite your experiences. More broadly it demonstrates that nobody has to be defined simply by the immutable characteristics of birth such as race or gender. It's a choice we make. You are proof enough of that given the heights you've been able to achieve. I sincerely hope you continue to succeed in life and genuinely wish you all the best.

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Originally Posted by Anonemoose

For what it's worth, it's a testament to your character to believe this despite your experiences. More broadly it demonstrates that nobody has to be defined simply by the immutable characteristics of birth such as race or gender. It's a choice we make. You are proof enough of that given the heights you've been able to achieve. I sincerely hope you continue to succeed in life and genuinely wish you all the best.

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Thank you for saying that. That touched me - genuinely.

But overall my stance remains that creatives shouldn't be forced to insert anything into their creations.

Write what you're most comfortable with. Tokenism isn't the answer to anything and makes for shallow, offensive and forgettable characters.

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Originally Posted by Anonemoose

LGBTQIA2S+

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That thing is starting to look more like a cheat code, lmao!

I'm trans, I've been on HRT for a couple years now, and I love FFXIV
Why?
Because as the game stands right now, you DO have ways to make your character "visibly trans" whatever that means, I'm gonna go with "mismatching gender/sex and voice" which is... kinda sus way to put it, but it's what's implied, isn't it? As if there's a way to be visibly/invisibly trans. But I digress.

What you're proposing is gonna cause backlash against the community for no reason, with not much to really gain from it. There's already enough as is.

no just no thats all ill say to avoid any other reprocussion as to what i really want to say.

There already is, silly~! *nods towards the Dotharl tribe of the Azim Steppe* I believe you'd enjoy reading the lore on them. I also recommend doing their sidequests ^-^

the dotharl fill your head with their believes while growing up with nobody ever saying something different.... doesnt sound like 'you can be what you want to be / what you are.'
so while our society pushes girls and boys into specific gender archetypes the dotharl community pushes them into whatever gender they think you were before... how is that a good representation?

Just to note, in universe (supposedly), there are Fantasia potions.

It is not entirely out of the realm of possibilities that an NPC could have taken one and changed their gender.

In fact, it would be so “perfect” of a transition that everyone who had ever known the NPC would only ever remember them as being their new race and/or gender (yay magic!).

So, assuming access to Fantasia is actually a thing, there really wouldn’t be many trans people known, unless they purposefully went out of their way to tell you they fantasia’d. There probably wouldn’t be many people “in transition” either, as Fantasia is so simple/fast acting.

Now, trans in the sense of “man in a woman’s body” or vice versa could be a thing and might even already BE a thing in game…but I can’t really remember any examples. It’s a very common trope in Japanese media, after all.