What's even the point of doing savage?

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Originally Posted by Vryn

To you, not everyone is motivated by personal goals and intrinsic satisfaction some of us need to feel the grind, need the actual progression both in terms of looks and power. If we aren't going to be rewarded for our effort other than a fleeting feeling we will have on the first clear then it's not really that valuable.

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I'm not really sure what you mean here- isn't grinding for grinding's sake just another personal goal/intrinsic satisfaction?

Other than that I think I basically said what you did:

The best-lazy way to gear is just the 3rd set of tomestone gear.

The gear is literally useless as once you have all BiS, you've already finished all the content except MAYBE Ultimate. There isn't some larger additional content that requires even remotely close to BiS.

I do it for fun... That's it. The fun and self satisfaction of clearing difficult content. It's fun. That's all I can say. When I can't exactly partake in glamour because of my race, I need to find a different endgame to participate in.

The only real reason to do savage is for the thrill of beating it - it’s a nice feeling after all that work learning the phases to finally kill it.

The only reason to do it for the gear is if you intend to do Ultimate after.

There’s nothing else in the game outside of ultimate that requires savage gear and your power gain gets “reset” when the next tier comes out, which along with it, comes new crafted gear which is better than the gear you earned from the previous savage tier.

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Originally Posted by GaspardSavoureuxx

ALSO, you said for fun, but by the look of your lodestone, you never did any savage; and never did much extreme except older one. So, yeah, your opinion means very little to me :D

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I did do Savage. I just never Cleared it. And I do Extremes just not right away. Ill possibly never do Ultimate, but thats fine.
I do more and different things in this game then Hardcore Raiding , I also have an ALT. So while my Lodestone doesn't reflect what YOU care about, doesn't mean I dont do the content, nor does it lower my opinion....or Objective Fact.
For Fun

And the Only time Im not having fun, is when I get a group that takes things to seriously and cant just relax and enjoy the game. Enjoy the thrill of learning and even helping others learn.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

This is literally the worst place to argue about the one drop per week rule. Remove that and PF will die even earlier. You need enough people good and consistent enough at the game to clear P3s, if a significant amount of those people are done with the tier and have moved on to other stuff (ultimate for example), your chances are going to be worse. Nobody wants to play this tier forever. Do you want to force people into a perpetual grind wheel with a savage tier for 8 months?

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so forcing people to grind weekly for alt job gearing isn't an issue either? FIVE MONTHS after the tier released if the raid gear was worth grinding for aside from faster reclears and ultimate admission you could have an argument there but since it isn't there's literally no reason to have it limited past like 3 months at most most jobs need like 5-6 pieces of savage raid gear for BiS and there's 5 roles int he game (tank, healer, ranged phys, caster, and melee DPS (i'm assuming you only play one melee DPS cause each melee has it's own gear or partner for their gear)). even if you managed to win the piece you needed every time you cleared which is extremely unlikely thats still 5-10 clears of each savage fight to fully gear yourself and your alt jobs. which is more than fair enough for the 3 month lockout period. you can use it as a bragging tool still that you got gear for all your jobs that you play

also if you really wanna throw out needing skilled players for P3s. i wonder if anything i said before would help with that hmmm? if you need to be carried through the content and can't even produce the damage needed to kill SSS do you really deserve that clear? (there is only one role that has an exception and thats healers cause they have the biggest chance to lose DPS due to others mistakes) cause for every 1% less effort you put in thats another 1% effort someone else needs to put in and so why is it fair that you get the clear and potentially the loot cause other people put in more effort?

there will always be people farming these savages. and more people would be willing to help newer players cause they don't have to worry about it being 1 chest, or not getting a book so they can CHOOSE what piece they want. unlocking the weekly limit on savage tiers earlier would overall be a better thing for all parties involved (the people who like to gear all their jobs, those who like collecting glams, those who want to clear the content or hell just farm it cause the fight is fun). and if you already got the fgear for your one job and are happy. you lose absolutely nothing by helping a new player and still get a book for doing it in case you do somewhere down the line want a piece for glam.

this is exactly the place to talk about it, cause we should be talking about the savage raid system and how to improve it when people ask about it

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Originally Posted by GaspardSavoureuxx

Yes, but i dare you to go now on PF and do P1S and P2S if you never did it (only traning group because let say you never killed it). Even if you learn the mecha by heart, i dare you to do that, coming back here and telling me you had fun :D

Or even better, i dare you to go on endsinger extreme on PF and tell me you had fun :D

ALSO, you said for fun, but by the look of your lodestone, you never did any savage; and never did much extreme except older one. So, yeah, your opinion means very little to me :D

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thats very amusing as i could say the same thing for you

punching down is boring

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Originally Posted by GaspardSavoureuxx

Yes, but i dare you to go now on PF and do P1S and P2S if you never did it (only traning group because let say you never killed it). Even if you learn the mecha by heart, i dare you to do that, coming back here and telling me you had fun :D

Or even better, i dare you to go on endsinger extreme on PF and tell me you had fun :D

ALSO, you said for fun, but by the look of your lodestone, you never did any savage; and never did much extreme except older one. So, yeah, your opinion means very little to me :D

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I hop into PF for Ex/ Savage for fun. 0 chest late week practice/ clear parties. I get nothing out of it except free practice and... yes, fun.
Especially after unlock I tend to live in PF. Before that it's a bit difficult to get into parties because most want 2 chest, some even as late as on Mondays and I'm locked out of them but still possible and if a party that lets me join catches my eye I hop in on whichever class I feel like playing and have fun beating a boss into submission.

Doing it for the shinies alone feels unrewarding and unsatisfying because gear doesn't is useless for the most part unless you're going for the most current ultimate. If the gameplay part alone doesn't appeal to you then I wouldn't recommend doing savage because the ilvl increase is fairly small for the time investment. Not to mention you can get good gear with sometimes suboptimal substats from Tomes + Alli raid/ Nut coins alone.

My coil group used to queue up for t5 on fun nights to get randoms clears (and bonus tomes).

If you aren't raiding for fun you are doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by pikalovr

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Yes, a thread from someone struggling with finding a decent group because most of them are finished at this point truly is the worst place to ask for removing the weekly loot restriction. I am fully aware gearing up multiple jobs sucks, but that is so unimaginably far removed from the issue OP is facing. By removing the weekly loot restriction you would put many more people in the same spot as OP by virtue of most people being done sooner after the tier launches.

Having a SSS gate before entering savage isnt a bad idea on its own but it again doesnt provide solutions to the issue OP is facing. There would probably just be less groups but that doesnt mean they would necessarily be better at clearing the fight. The dps check on P3s isnt that harsh, you need to get through the mechanics cleanly. A SSS gate does nothing for that.

There is no real point to it, the only difference is you know need to do enough DPS's not to hit the enrage timer and have more mechanics to react to, sometimes an additional mode as well.

And that is pretty much all about it.

Glamour is the true endgame. There's your reason.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

What's the point of doing anything? lol
We can have this nihilistic snowball fight all day but if none of the game interests you at all then why are you paying SE?

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/woooooosh

Tbh. Flexing, at least for me.

MMO's are social games. And glamour, weapons and titles are viable ways to express yourself to other players.

When I was a sprout, I admired fellow players because of what they achieved in this game.

Now I acquire items/titles that require a fair amount of effort for the sake of boasting them.

For Achievement points.

Satisfaction and enjoyment. There's nothing else really. Higher difficulty raids in FF14 just aren't that rewarding otherwise.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Satisfaction and enjoyment. There's nothing else really. Higher difficulty raids in FF14 just aren't that rewarding otherwise.

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That's apparently not enough for this dude. When faced with this, he just doubles down on "but in other games" speak.

Imagine playing a game to have fun... no, there has to be an item reward reason or something... I guess.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Imagine playing a game to have fun... no, there has to be an item reward reason or something... I guess.

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Sad Times...

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

If you aren't raiding for fun you are doing it wrong.

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+1

Hey,

I'm gonna ask for a lock, or a delete or something. People can't actually read those days.

I have poeple who respond to me with a quote from other people and in fact wanted to respond to another guy, multiple time.

You don't even take the time to read or try to understand and respond.

Well, i'm out. I wish you the best ♥

L8r G8r
Remember to Have Fun

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Originally Posted by GaspardSavoureuxx

Hey,

I'm gonna ask for a lock, or a delete or something. People can't actually read those days.

I have poeple who respond to me with a quote from other people and in fact wanted to respond to another guy, multiple time.

You don't even take the time to read or try to understand and respond.

Well, i'm out. I wish you the best ♥

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byebye see you never <3

There is a reason most jRPGs tie endgame fights with rewards that continue or wrap up your characters' progressions. For a lot of people the rewards making you stronger or providing you with more options on how to replay are part of the fun.
Often even the strongest enemy in the game will give you something that you can use to play around or to carry over into your second playthrough.

The only reason so many people here act as if expecting anything similar is so preposterous is simply because the designers in XIV always know best in their eyes. The truth is, if people really should be doing savage and ultimate "just for fun" and the majority of the playerbase doesn't raid, they shouldn't care if raiders get better gear that outperforms the gear non-raiders get access to in the next patch. The fear of making non-raiders feel "inferior" because of ilvl creep is very arse-backwards. What do they want that ilvl for if they don't raid? Expert Dungeon Unsynced?

Yeah no. I'm with the OP. If you do raids "for fun" then it wouldn't affect you if you also happened to gain more lasting useful rewards. And if you don't, you really shouldn't care. Literally no one would lose anything if that was the case.

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Originally Posted by GaspardSavoureuxx

Hey all,

I started savage couple weeks ago, it's difficult but not that difficult either.

I'm actually on P3S and learn the mecha with my roster.

I wonder though, BIS taken appart, what's the point of the savage content? Just killing difficult boss?

For what? You can be full 600 ilvl (except weapon 595) only with memoquartz. What's even the point of learning and training hours just for killing a boss who gives you nothing really important.

I'm just curious, everyone seems so happy with how the actual endgame content are right now but i don't get it.

Even if you farm and you have everything BIS, in the next big patch when new ilvl release, the stuff from crafting will be 10 ilvl more than your actual BIS.

What's the point? How do you guys don't be bored of farming something that are not more useful than the other one which you don't need to farm to have it but just wait weeks and weeks...

You can't use your stuff on PVP and every roulette are sync so, your stuff means nothing, except for helping you killing the savage you already kill.

Even doing ultimate gives you nothing more except a skin... It just feel weird.

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Someone might've said all this before but there are several reasons.

- Tomestone gear takes a long time to acquire and requires Savage content items to augment to 600. + Only some pieces are BiS (some pieces are horrible). So at the start, savage is the only way to get to 600. And later on it's still the fastest way.
- Raid gear is dyable. So anyone wanting to glam raid gear will probably prefer the savage version.
- BiS is required for ultimate.
- Similar to tomestones, 595 weapons aren't available on launch, same with the 24 man gear. You would have to wait for a few months. If anyone wants to argue that that's not a big deal, then you might as well wait a few more months for the next tier, and if you feel like it a few more months for the next expansion. Or you might as well just wait for SE's next MMO lol. You get what I mean, you gotta play the game at some point.
- The challenge is fun for some people. Whether it be the fights or getting together with their friends.
- Some people enjoy completionism
- BiS Gear allows you to carry others through content easier. If you're into helping friends that might not be as advanced in their prog as you this is non-trivial.
- For speedrunning.
- To gloat.
- If you don't want to spend a ton of gil on crafted gear during the next tier, BiS is usually a good enough base to allow you to tackle the next tier.

I think that covers most of it.

And ultimate only giving 'a skin' is kind of the point (though it does have an extra materia slot so is technically BiS). For the most part, people willing to spend days wiping to content do it because they find it fun. A shiny weapon and a title are just the cherry on top. There are many other rewards like this. Like relic weapons/sets, etc. etc.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

There is a reason most jRPGs tie endgame fights with rewards that continue or wrap up your characters' progressions. For a lot of people the rewards making you stronger or providing you with more options on how to replay are part of the fun.
Often even the strongest enemy in the game will give you something that you can use to play around or to carry over into your second playthrough.

The only reason so many people here act as if expecting anything similar is so preposterous is simply because the designers in XIV always know best in their eyes. The truth is, if people really should be doing savage and ultimate "just for fun" and the majority of the playerbase doesn't raid, they shouldn't care if raiders get better gear that outperforms the gear non-raiders get access to in the next patch. The fear of making non-raiders feel "inferior" because of ilvl creep is very arse-backwards. What do they want that ilvl for if they don't raid? Expert Dungeon Unsynced?

Yeah no. I'm with the OP. If you do raids "for fun" then it wouldn't affect you if you also happened to gain more lasting useful rewards. And if you don't, you really shouldn't care. Literally no one would lose anything if that was the case.

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Oh I agree the iLvL thing is pretty much worthless. They could just as easily make all the stuff you get cosmetic from savage and it would still be content worth doing. The iLvL increases are mostly there to appease a very specific group of players, who are very into their parsing and FFLogs to say the least.

I used to raid. I found it rewarding for a while. However, it is just a treadmill.

Patch drops. Zerg crafted gear making old gear obsolete. Run 5 experts for tomestone gear. Grind savage for a week. Repeat expert/savage for a while. Countless hours, kill boss. Farm a few weeks.
Patch drops. Zerg crafted gear making old gear obsolete. Run 5 experts for tomestone gear. Grind savage for a week. Repeat expert/savage for a while. Countless hours, kill boss. Farm a few weeks.
Patch drops. Zerg crafted gear making old gear obsolete. Run 5 experts for tomestone gear. Grind savage for a week. Repeat expert/savage for a while. Countless hours, kill boss. Farm a few weeks.

New expansion. Repeat above.

I found I enjoyed the game a lot more when I did a lot of things OTHER than savage raids. Sure, I do my 24-man raids since they can be fun. I run expert sometimes, but frankly - since I'm not raiding, I don't need to be on that treadmill anymore. I found other enjoyment in this game that (to me) is far more rewarding. But my hat is off to those high skilled players that clear savage in the first few weeks.

As I was saying another topic about Savage, but I do find Savage a complete waste of time and energy for various reasons.

Not fun to me at all, and not worth the effort its asking for.

Much as I like the shiny Ultimate weapons, but those are not worth it either when it will be obsolete later.

Can't speak for others but I only do the savages if they have glamour I want. I did the last tier in 5.0 for glamour reasons but this tier I skipped because I thought the glamour was meh. Maybe if I had time for ultimate I'd put in more effort but for now it's the casual lyfe for me.

I personally feel the system is bad and it spreaded through most MMO's and this is not an FF14 issue specificly. Everything is for nothing every major patch. I don't mind redoing it on every expansion but every major update seems a bit much. Why not make it so that the gear will be upgradeable throughout the expansion. Meaning progressing your gear througout the expansion. Here is an idea. Not perfect but there are a lot of clever minds who can work this out further.

6.0 - introduce craftable gear to start doing end-game content
6.1 - introduce first raid tier gear
6.2 - introduce weapon enhancements (sort of like relic questline)
6.3 - introduce gear enhancements (maybe a relic version of this as well)
6.4 - Improve accessories
6.5 - Augment gear or further upgrade
Would also like to see that on this stage you can get a Disciple of War or Magic version. So you don't have to grind glamours for alts.

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Originally Posted by Magiqa

I personally feel the system is bad and it spreaded through most MMO's and this is not an FF14 issue specificly. Everything is for nothing every major patch. I don't mind redoing it on every expansion but every major update seems a bit much. Why not make it so that the gear will be upgradeable throughout the expansion. Meaning progressing your gear througout the expansion. Here is an idea. Not perfect but there are a lot of clever minds who can work this out further.

6.0 - introduce craftable gear to start doing end-game content
6.1 - introduce first raid tier gear
6.2 - introduce weapon enhancements (sort of like relic questline)
6.3 - introduce gear enhancements (maybe a relic version of this as well)
6.4 - Improve accessories
6.5 - Augment gear or further upgrade
Would also like to see that on this stage you can get a Disciple of War or Magic version. So you don't have to grind glamours for alts.

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They already do the gear upgrade route through the expansion, with a relic weapon quest chain starting usually in the x.2 patches. I find the problems with savage are largely related to who the content is designed for and how the population of players into that style of content can be far and between. It is never a good experience to spend almost an entire patch cycle just clearing savage because by the time it is over, at that point there's not much time to even enjoy what you get from it.

The problem with Savage is that the weakest link in a group drags the group down, and the expectations of learning in savage are very high compared to all the other content in game. Because of that the experience for savage is incredibly polarizing, where someone might think it's great because they managed to clear everything within a month due to having the right people, to being absolutely depressing and a waste of time if you end up with people that just don't have the capacity or time to learn, yet attempt to do the content. This is not about how well someone performs personally at doing a rotation on a job: savage is about how well someone can do so while learning strict motions and having the ability to clearly come up with solutions when something goes wrong.

Personally, I'd rather have the hardcore people say the content is too easy than to have them say that it feels just right, because the people who can clear savage on week 2 or 3 are putting in way more time than people realize. We're talking some folks going 20+ hours in a week with a set group not just grinding, but actually treating the content like coursework at an educational institute.

what is the point of playing games?
what is the point of living?
what is the point of BBQ?

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Originally Posted by GaspardSavoureuxx

Hey all,

I started savage couple weeks ago, it's difficult but not that difficult either.

I'm actually on P3S and learn the mecha with my roster.

I wonder though, BIS taken appart, what's the point of the savage content? Just killing difficult boss?

For what? You can be full 600 ilvl (except weapon 595) only with memoquartz. What's even the point of learning and training hours just for killing a boss who gives you nothing really important.

I'm just curious, everyone seems so happy with how the actual endgame content are right now but i don't get it.

Even if you farm and you have everything BIS, in the next big patch when new ilvl release, the stuff from crafting will be 10 ilvl more than your actual BIS.

What's the point? How do you guys don't be bored of farming something that are not more useful than the other one which you don't need to farm to have it but just wait weeks and weeks...

You can't use your stuff on PVP and every roulette are sync so, your stuff means nothing, except for helping you killing the savage you already kill.

Even doing ultimate gives you nothing more except a skin... It just feel weird.

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Basically it's there to feed people's egos and make them think they're special because they succeeded at poorly designed content that's out of place with the actual game.

It also inspired them to troll and attack people who don't like savage which feeds the endless drama on these forums.

Why even play this game? Why even log on? Why even have fun? What is fun? Do you all exist? Do I even exist. Does not compute. Error, Error, Error.

Basically what I read with OP's post.

Did you actually read it or did you let Zepla tell you what to think?

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Basically it's there to feed people's egos and make them think they're special because they succeeded at poorly designed content that's out of place with the actual game.

It also inspired them to troll and attack people who don't like savage which feeds the endless drama on these forums.

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Uh ... did you read your own post. Like ... read it, then look at the mirror, do you see you own reflection in it?

Self-awareness is a skill worth cultivating.

I usually do savage content just to have access to nice fights. I guess my biggest complaint is I personally feel there needs to be more overworld stuff. More super bosses, like chi etc. In specific areas for each zone. But for savage I usually play because its currently some of the only challenging content there is in this game outside of ultimate.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Basically it's there to feed people's egos and make them think they're special because they succeeded at poorly designed content that's out of place with the actual game.

It also inspired them to troll and attack people who don't like savage which feeds the endless drama on these forums.

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https://i.imgur.com/xu0fXXR.png

lol, okay... stay salty i guess.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

https://i.imgur.com/xu0fXXR.png

lol, okay... stay salty i guess.

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Don't worry you can look at their achievements on Lodestone and see no (current) savage clears. Always the people who don't do the content who do the trolling.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Don't worry you can look at their achievements on Lodestone and see no (current) savage clears. Always the people who don't do the content who do the trolling.

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It's just the way of the internet. Some of the most intolerance people I know is the one who preach tolerance 24/7. The people who always accuse everyone of attacking someone is always gonna be the people who often attacking everyone.

It's a psychology thing, people tend to deny their worst element by projecting it to others.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

https://i.imgur.com/xu0fXXR.png

lol, okay... stay salty i guess.

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aren't you just proving their point by doing this? xD

I play Savage raids because I enjoy the specific type of challenge it offers, and I find it really fun. I can get dyeable glamour and a weapon a bit early and that's cool, I guess, but it's not what drives me. Other players don't enjoy that sort of gameplay, and that's fine too - although some individuals on the internet are prone to some real nasty inferiority complexes...

Regarding some of the OP's points, Final Fantasy XIV is designed around vertical gear progression - doing new content to get numerically better gear to do new content, ad infinitum. It sounds like the OP would prefer horizontal progression - succeeding at different tasks awards you gear that provides a unique advantage for the long term. While horizontal progression can done quite well MMORPGs, neither is objectively superior, and FFXIV simply adheres to the 'vertical' school of design.