Current Problem Parallels

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

The current issues with the dev team (IMHO) are basically a result of "Suffering from Success"

A Realm Reborn (2.0) happened because 1.0 was such an utter failure. They had to dig deep and figure out how to fix things.

Now, with all the success they have had, it has went to their heads and they've developed an Ego. They feel they can do no wrong, WE as the consumer base, are the ones who are wrong.

The game is in Cruise Control now because it's Square Enix's cash cow. Nothing really innovative. When they have tried, it's been mostly a disaster (the 4 attempts at Diadem Content, Eureka a disaster on launch). Job design is all over the place.

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Essentially this. Deceptus, once again, expressing my feelings in a far more eloquent way than I can manage.

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Originally Posted by PawPaw

Except he has his gut reaction and then comes back a little while later saying that even if he doesn't believe us, the investigation is worth doing for the sake of their star. There is no logical reason to believe that the rest of the Convocation, even if skeptical at first as they most likely would be, would be opposed to looking into it more deeply just to be absolutely sure they weren't putting their world at risk by being stubborn. And there would have been plenty of information for them to review in Elpis, including witnessing Hermes' breakdown.

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Because of that I said that I believe in the power of the ancestors, of being able to see, through the Hydaelin's tracker (at least), that she would be right. Eu também acho que é impossível que o sistema de limpeza mental não registre quando foi usado.

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Originally Posted by BrokentoothMarch

I just have no words. You're pretending to be an expert on a country based on something actually niche in that country. Sumo's are not that big a thing, simply something that was exported at the earliest to the rest of the world. By your logic, everyone would be in the right to think America is still wahoo cowboys herding sheep and shooting natives in 2022. You're an actual lunatic and dangerously close to that thing that you're accusing me of.

In fact, I'll say it: You're pretty dangerously racist assuming an entire people's outlook on something based on their niche media. That is IMMENSELY messed up and I would hope you did the last October event because that clown makeup would suit you great right about now.

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Isn't that what you're doing?

Assuming that because China and Mongolia has a major issue with overweight people that by extension, Japan also does?

So I guess those Buddhists that equate for 67% of the practiced religion in Japan must really hate themselves too because of multiple places of worship holding the statue of Buddha in his larger framed reincarnation eh?

yes, it's the majority religion in Japan so it's safe to say that that's hardly a niche thing.

So again, the person that assumes an entire continental region of Asia are "Aggressively Fat haters" when one of the countries has a long storied culture (which you claim is niche) and Religion (which is majority) states otherwise because of a google translation, is absolutely the Racist in the room.

Because you're tarring an ENTIRE CONTINENTAL POPULATION with that brush.

Do I think all Americans are ignorant? Nope
Do I think all Japanese are Buddhist and incapable of discrimination in the way that is being claimed? Nope
By the same measure, do I think all Chinese are discriminant? Absolutely not and some of them live in fear of not being able to speak their mind for fear of reprisals.

But there's enough evidence out there to say Majority on all counts.

Please, if you're going to throw the R word around

1. Understand what it is
2. Don't throw it when you're doing something that is heavily guilty of it
3. Actually get yourself some facts first, so you can arm yourself with a bit of knowledge instead of "some guy on some site said with absolutely no credibility"

Heck, I could have said something mean about Balmung and you being a Lala on that server, but why would I? Because that would be lowering myself to your level and it would not only be a unfounded accusation, but incredibly wrong to do so.

Edit: To add, if this was Twitter, I'd give someone exactly 5 minutes before they said something pertaining to you being a Lala on Balmung and I'd absolutely drag them for it too. Because I call BS out wherever I see it, doesn't matter what. Because there's way too much of this jump to conclusions, accuse before factual evidence garbage going on these days and if I'm a troll for calling that out, then I'll happily be called a troll.

Oh Ra-La please release me from this mortal coil

OPs point proves itself with the contents of this thread.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Uh….correct me if i’m wrong but you need to do savage for a month or two to get fully geared because it’s gated. Same with tomestones, and alli raids etc. Also…it has little to no midcore content which is what i’m getting at

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In FFXIV if you defeat a boss, you get guaranteed loot. In WoW you have 20% chance of getting anything and 5% chance of getting the one thing you want per boss. You need to spend 3 months farming the same boss for a 50% chance to get one BIS.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

In FFXIV if you defeat a boss, you get guaranteed loot. In WoW you have 20% chance of getting anything and 5% chance of getting the one thing you want per boss. You need to spend 3 months farming the same boss for a 50% chance to get one BIS.

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Except for things like alli raids, its not even guaranteed if you get anything for your role. and in things like savage pf, youre not guaranteed to get loot every single clear, which means needing to resort to multiple clears just to try and get a single piece of loot.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Except for things like alli raids, its not even guaranteed if you get anything for your role. and in things like savage pf, youre not guaranteed to get loot every single clear, which means needing to resort to multiple clears just to try and get a single piece of loot.

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The drop-rates for Alliance raids is an issue, but at the same time the gear pieces from it isn't BIS. It's catchup.

And the savage drops do follow a similar issue to wow mythic raids, but at least in FFXIV players that have done savage can help others without locking themselves out from even participating in the content for a week.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

The drop-rates for Alliance raids is an issue, but at the same time the gear pieces from it isn't BIS. It's catchup.

And the savage drops do follow a similar issue to wow mythic raids, but at least in FFXIV players that have done savage can help others without locking themselves out from even participating in the content for a week.

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You cant technically help others if youve already cleared and youre trying to fill in for someone to get their weekly clear though, as you miss out on chests. I dont really care about WoW, im not sure why its constantly brought up when people offer criticism.Its as if you believe its either 14's way, wow's way, or the highway.

https://youtu.be/WShktYGH9eI
That blog post being posted on October 19 2014 and this youtube video being posted on the 29th leads me to believe it's a fair assumption these are of the same cosplay contest, though I forget how far apart fan fests used to be so I can keep looking.

Make of it what you will.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

https://youtu.be/WShktYGH9eI
That blog post being posted on October 19 2014 and this youtube video being posted on the 29th leads me to believe it's a fair assumption these are of the same cosplay contest, though I forget how far apart fan fests used to be so I can keep looking.

Make of it what you will.

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That doesn't seem to match the description of who was in the contest. There's no Garuda for instance. There was a Las Vegas one from October 17th to 19th that year that is probably the right one.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

https://youtu.be/WShktYGH9eI
That blog post being posted on October 19 2014 and this youtube video being posted on the 29th leads me to believe it's a fair assumption these are of the same cosplay contest, though I forget how far apart fan fests used to be so I can keep looking.

Make of it what you will.

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I think it happened at the NA Fanfest which was from Oct 17-19 of 2014 but I'm not 100%. I've only seen the video with Yoshida fat shaming the ninja cosplayer once and when I've gone to search for it today, it appears to have been totally scrubbed from the internet. Not surprising, really.

I guess it's from the fanfest in Las Vegas
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/blog/000845.html

I don't see the part about the ninja anywhere so if there was a video of it, yeah it's probably gone.

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Originally Posted by PawPaw

I think it happened at the NA Fanfest which was from Oct 17-19 of 2014 but I'm not 100%. I've only seen the video with Yoshida fat shaming the ninja cosplayer once and when I've gone to search for it today, it appears to have been totally scrubbed from the internet. Not surprising, really.

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Was it the stream video? I did some digging and found a post on this forum's event area for that fan fest. There was a thread where someone was asking for a video of the cosplay contest and there was a link. Follow it showed a video that's gone, but a later post in the thread mentioned someone had uploaded the official paid stream version and that was a no-no. I couldn't really find many videos of that Fan Fest at all so it would be no surprise if they were cracked down on because there was a paid stream.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Was it the stream video? I did some digging and found a post on this forum's event area for that fan fest. There was a thread where someone was asking for a video of the cosplay contest and there was a link. Follow it showed a video that's gone, but a later post in the thread mentioned someone had uploaded the official paid stream version and that was a no-no. I couldn't really find many videos of that Fan Fest at all so it would be no surprise if they were cracked down on because there was a paid stream.

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Oh, maybe? I can't even remember when and where I saw it, it was such a long time ago. But that could very well be the reason for why it can't be found anywhere and all that's left is fan accounts.

The other issue as for why the XIV team seems to underperform despite being SE's favorite cash cow is because their own team got cannibalized to form the core of the FFXVI team. Yoshi P got pulled into that project as the producer, despite XIV being ongoing. He and the others are suffering from success not because they got big egos, but because their reward was twice as much work.

Even our favorite meme master MCK Fox has been absent from XIV for the last expac and a half because he's been pulled over to XVI. (Kate has done a great job though!)

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Originally Posted by OhNooo

I guess it's from the fanfest in Las Vegas
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/blog/000845.html

I don't see the part about the ninja anywhere so if there was a video of it, yeah it's probably gone.

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Yeah, that's on me for assuming honestly. It's been literally 7 years since I last thought of that fan fest lol

But yeah I can't find anything of the na fanfest 2014 :<

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Originally Posted by PawPaw

Oh, maybe? I can't even remember when and where I saw it, it was such a long time ago. But that could very well be the reason for why it can't be found anywhere and all that's left is fan accounts.

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Yeah there is very little about that Las Vegas Fan Fest unless it's a random video outside or such.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Was it the stream video? I did some digging and found a post on this forum's event area for that fan fest. There was a thread where someone was asking for a video of the cosplay contest and there was a link. Follow it showed a video that's gone, but a later post in the thread mentioned someone had uploaded the official paid stream version and that was a no-no. I couldn't really find many videos of that Fan Fest at all so it would be no surprise if they were cracked down on because there was a paid stream.

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dayummm it really do look like they disposed of it lmao

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Originally Posted by Catwho

The other issue as for why the XIV team seems to underperform despite being SE's favorite cash cow is because their own team got cannibalized to form the core of the FFXVI team. Yoshi P got pulled into that project as the producer, despite XIV being ongoing. He and the others are suffering from success not because they got big egos, but because their reward was twice as much work.

Even our favorite meme master MCK Fox has been absent from XIV for the last expac and a half because he's been pulled over to XVI. (Kate has done a great job though!)

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Which is even worse.

We either have

1) The B team effectively developing FFXIV

or

2) Only part of the developers attention. Probably less than half of it, most of the brainpower attempting to develop a brand new game.

Either scenario is really bad for FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Which is even worse.

We either have

1) The B team effectively developing FFXIV

or

2) Only part of the developers attention. Probably less than half of it, most of the brainpower attempting to develop a brand new game.

Either scenario is really bad for FFXIV.

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well if this is the work of the b team or only half their attention then their doing a damn fine job, can't even imagine what'd they'd do at 100%.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

dayummm it really do look like they disposed of it lmao

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Not for the reasons you're thinking. It was a paid stream. They're not going to just let that get posted around.

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Originally Posted by Listrella

well if this is the work of the b team or only half their attention then their doing a damn fine job, can't even imagine what'd they'd do at 100%.

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Your standards must be dead and buried six feet under, pft.

Sadly, unlike you, I respect myself. So I expect more from a rather expensive game to play.

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Originally Posted by BrokentoothMarch

Your standards must be dead and buried six feet under, pft.

Sadly, unlike you, I respect myself. So I expect more from a rather expensive game to play.

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If FFXIV is expensive to you, you don't have the financial stability to be playing it.

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Originally Posted by dapperfaffer

If FFXIV is expensive to you, you don't have the financial stability to be playing it.

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I’ve heard “take your money elsewhere if you hate it” or other variations of “if you hate it then why are you playing it” but this is the first I’ve ever heard “you’re too broke to play it” used to try to shut down criticism. For anyone who says the forums are a cesspool, the call is coming from inside the house…

Hmm you guys mean this fanfest?

http://t-ono.net/2.0/gallery25/galle...FanFestCosplay

This was the las Vegas fanfest in 2014 Garuda ninja Gaius minfillia check

At this point, all the things that were worth saying or typing for the matter, have been done already.
The question is, how do you know it reaches them when there's little to no activity from the other side?

It's just barking & fighting now and sadly seems like people enjoy fighting on the forums more than playing the game.

I see the usual strange attempts at gatekeeping and gaslighting are readily at play from certain segments of the community. Someone's forum join date is also separate to the date that their actual account was first made. I know people who were around in the days of 1.0 who only recently decided to say their piece on the forum.

I'm seeing a whole lot of babyrage malding going on. Guess that's what happens when you play a Lalafell. /s

Also hi, not everyone 'complaining' and seeing worrying connections between the Death by a Thousand Cuts of one game and this game are former WoW players. I ain't never touched it a day in my life, been here for years, but you don't need to have played WoW to research its slow, choking death and see worrying parallels with what FFXIV is currently going through.

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Sorry if I was more interested in going after the end of the world rather than following the drama of a character who died in ARR

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Drama? Again this was in MSQ, in ARR to be exact, the two of them were childhood friends.

She was Urianger's best friend, a mentor, one of the very few he allowed to get close. Anyone could see the guilt he had at not seeing her parents. terrified of what they would say..terrified they would blame HIM for her passing. saying that he could have saved her somehow.

Survivor guilt does that to you, you stay away from those they were close to, afraid they would lash out at you and hold you responsible, even if it wasnt the case. note in previous conversations he asks after them and is told they are absent..you can see the relief on his face, glad that for now, that meeting has been postponed.

Even if you know there was nothing you could have done, you still ask yourself "why am i alive", "how do i explain what happened to her, how do i tell them I was not there to protect her..how do i face her parents?"

Urianger was quiet, sensitive, the studious type that didnt make friends easily, and like many, did not want to admit his feelings for her, did not want ANYONE to know the grief he carried alone, he locked it inside and let NO ONE in.

You have no idea what that feeling is when that meeting is not one of recrimination, but love, understanding, forgiveness. Didnt you hear her mother, angry not at Moenbryda's death, but that her best friend and someone THEY LOVED had carried that burden for years, alone?

"If there was one thing we resented you for, it was that we could not be there to mourn her with you"

I guess you will never understand.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Sorry if I was more interested in going after the end of the world rather than following the drama of a character who died in ARR

Drama?

She was Urianger's best friend, a mentor, one of the very few he allowed to get close. Anyone could see the guilt he had at not seeing her parents. terrified of what they would say..terrified they would blame HIM for her passing. saying that he could have saved her somehow.

Survivor guilt does that to you, you stay away form those they were close to, afraid they would lash out at you and hold you responsible, even if it wasnt the case.

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So....drama? Soap opera drama? Thats what it sounds like to me

I can't say I ever cared much about Moenbryda but I thought she had a touching send off back during the days of ARR.

I'd have been more interested in a renewed take on Nabriales' defeat in light of knowing the full story behind the Ascians and their goals.

It helps, I suppose, that he has a full head of hair instead of that dubious half-shaved hairstyle Moenbryda sports that is alarmingly common in games these days!

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Guy?

See, right there, that's the issue.

Pre formed bias based on your own personal experiences.

"Everyone on the internet must be a guy"

"Fat shaming is a constant issue in America so it must be a thing in the rest of the world"

Ignorance and preconceived biases impressioned onto other people, other cultures, other ways of life.

Taking any tiny shred of anything, no matter how shady the source and believing it.

Remember, the rest of the world doesn't have nutty cults like QAnon and we certainly don't watch things like Infowars and believe everything printed in the New York post.

Edit: Heck doesn't your country have this whole thing where some of the country don't believe that Stalin was a Genocidal maniac? While you also have Neo Nazis walking around in broad daylight?

Practice what you preach first otherwise you're just throwing stones in the biggest glass house on planet Earth.

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This is one of the most brilliantly psychotic posts I've read in a long time. You're either the best troll I've ever seen, or genuinely lost and confused by simple conversations, with a tendency to bring up random things that you think support what you're saying but actually really don't.

I feel it best to simply ask one question.

"What do you have against Endwalker? What parts do you feel were mis-steps?"

I ask this, because I cannot really find any place where you put it down in actual words what parts people actively dislike, without being mired by emotional outrage. It would skip over all of the hate-flinging that this thread has seemingly become.

But on the other hand, some of the points you bring up are.. Well, to be frank, things that will always remain and, at times, actually help the game. The "Job Imbalance" part specifically.

If all Melee DPS hit as hard as a Samurai, then you lose out on Samurais main selling point, since Samurai doesn't really bring much else to the table (compared to other Melee)
If all Tanks had a Warriors self-healing, then you wouldn't take Paladin, despite it having better defensive skills. The Self-Healing would keep them up even without popping Rampart.

Just as a few examples. Every class fundamentally cannot be on the same playing field as others of its type. because if they were, you eliminate the reason to pick any other class but <insert top-class here>

As it currently stands, there's a lot of groups that willingly choose to bring a Monk, or a Ninja over a Samurai, because Monks can help healers with Mantra, or communicate to put all their burst into a Ninjas Trick-Attack window. If they were truly balanced, then all Melee DPS would get their own Trick-attack. Because that skill by design gives Ninja an advantage.

Unless you mean entirely just "DPS charts" balancing. In which case, you still fall into the pitfall I described. There will always be heavy-hitters that don't bring much team utility and those that under-perform, but make up for it by supporting. (Red Mage being coined "The Rez Mage" is evidence of this alone)

And lastly, WoWs "downfall" is attested to a lot of things. The company losing focus and pandering, the community turning venomous even to its own kind, the constant requirement of 3rd-party addons just to beat fights, etc.

(Yes, WoW Devs did publicly point out that they hated having to build fights later on that made 3rd-party tools a requirement. A quick google can prove this.)

As it stands, while there are some similarities (often shocking ones) a fair number of the similarities can be pinned to two communities still merging together. While I welcome our WoW refugees (that some are still not perfectly comfortable), there are a notable amount of them that haven't really done away with their old personality and that causes some friction.

Which in turn, causes XIVs community to become a bit more hostile in response, then it escalates and escalates.. You see where I'm going with this.

So you don't understand the problems and you don't want to.

Hey guys, game is fine, no changes needed. Yoshi-P keep on keeping on.

If you don't like it cry/quit/runback2wow/leave YOSHI-P ALONE

Where's my island sanctuary?

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Originally Posted by anhaato

So you don't understand the problems and you don't want to.

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If this is directed towards me, I will once again reiterate.

"What do you consider a Mis-step?"

We can go on and on about how "I dont understand the problem" when the problem only exists in your personal view, but it feels rather bittersweet to condemn one without explaining the stance you've taken. Which is why I asked what your stance is. Why you've taken it. I've explained how I see it and outlined the reasons why I have that stance. If you want to be taken seriously, the next step would be to explain your own and why your stance is "better" than mine. Not make a snide quip and act like you're superior.

Unless your intent wasn't a discussion, but an echo-chamber. But then you'd be admitting it.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

If this is directed towards me, I will once again reiterate.

"What do you consider a Mis-step?"

We can go on and on about how "I dont understand the problem" when the problem only exists in your personal view, but it feels rather bittersweet to condemn one without explaining the stance you've taken. Which is why I asked what your stance is. Why you've taken it. I've explained how I see it and outlined the reasons why I have that stance. If you want to be taken seriously, the next step would be to explain your own and why your stance is "better" than mine. Not make a snide quip and act like you're superior.

Unless your intent wasn't a discussion, but an echo-chamber. But then you'd be admitting it.

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There's pages upon pages of discussion readily available for you to flip through of people's criticisms of the story, but you seem intent on either not reading it or outright dismissing it as "emotional outrage." It's not my job to explain things in a way that you specifically request. I, and many others of us, have already succinctly laid out our thoughts in numerous threads. There's a 500+ page thread specifically devoted to msq criticism. If you truly wish to find out, take a look at what people are already saying. But, again, you're deriding people's responses as "emotional outrage" which tells me that either you're not interested in finding out, or that nothing will satisfy you unless it's presented in an easily rebuttable manner. Some petty arguments in these threads should not detract from the merit of points made before, or even during, but that's all you seem to care about.

But your misunderstanding of the problems is more than just that of the msq. You're mischaracterizing people's dissatisfaction with job design as being related to balance and numbers, when really most of us are referring to the playstyles. I have yet to see a single person ask for all melees to be doing the same damage as SAM like you allege.

You can't start claiming echo chamber when all you've done is feed your confirmation bias.

So you're asking me to flip through 500+ pages of another thread to get my answer and scroll through an alarming amount of people being hostile and toxic to each other.. When you could've just explained it in blunt terms in half the time and with much less of a headache? This thread alone, simply by looking at the last few pages turn from actual conversation and discussion into just attacking each other.

And no, it's not a misunderstanding. The OP pointed out Job Imbalance. Using "imbalance" instead of "design" alludes to their effectiveness in actual gameplay. Its skills and capabilities. Hence the stance. But here you are, changing the word to "design" and acting as if that was the original conversation when it wasn't. I'm not "mischaracterizing", I'm responding to the OP.

When I ask in a polite manner "Why do you feel this way" it's usually met with being told why. Not "go read it elsewhere." I will admit, not a fan of the attitude. But I suppose if you have posted it plenty of times in the past, it's only logical to say "go here" instead of posting it yet another time. But your assumption that people (me specifically) would look through other threads to get one statement that could be taken out of context (or the context outright unknown, due to posts prior to it) is kind of off-putting.

And lastly, I'm not asking you to explain it in a way that's easily rebuttable. I'm simply asking you to state your case. How you state it is entirely up to you and if you think it's not a good enough case, thats a you problem. And yes, actually. I can claim "echo chamber". People have done it before and merely mentioning the fact that it could potentially BE an Echo-chamber should make people either realize, or look back and reflect. To make sure that it's actually a discussion. Not just an army of Yes-men.

I'm not here to start a fight, bud. I'm trying to spark discussion and get it back onto the topic at hand. Or would you prefer going back to hating on the Lalafells?

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Originally Posted by CapaxInfiniti

As a longtime WoW vet, like really long time, there's honestly a lot of issues in Endwalker, and the response seriously parallels the reasons WoW declined like it did.

The housing debacle which managed to satisfy only a tiny percent of the population?
There should be outrage over it, and we should hold them to a higher standard.

Job imbalance? The same thing. The current pvp situations with the constant flux? Same thing.

This isn't to complain about them in particular, but to the overall response we're seeing.

As it currently stands, any kind of player unhappiness or wanting to ask the dev team to be held to a higher standard is met by the community with one of a few things:
"If you don't like it then quit"
"I'm happy so I don't care"
"You can't expect the devs to solve this problem"

These kind of responses are what slowly sent WoW into an uncontrolled death spiral.
As issues that needed addressing popped up, the community would take to the forums, and complain and try to get the game to reverse course.

It was met with fierce resistance every single time. Getting told to shut up, or to quit, or to find a new game, etc etc.

We are seeing the exact same thing currently happening right now on FFXIV.

EW has had some absolutely serious mis-steps. But by far and large the community has absolutely demanded that there be zero criticism ever because one time Yoshi-P cried on camera or something.

The fact that there is an entire army waiting to bludgeon even the most honest and valid of complaints and concerns is the telltale sign that FFXIV is entering into it's decline period. Much like WoW did. It's not going to magically be a bad game tomorrow like people think. It's going to be a very slow, very gradual process, where one bad mistake after the other is added. People will try to say something, because they love the game, only to be met by a community who will take every single opportunity to be hostile and will defend every single bad decision like a matter of personal honor.

What happens is a slow spiral of people starting to leave, feeling like they no longer have a voice in the game they love.

The mistakes made in Endwalker point to a strong shift in ethic when it comes to what the team is putting out. This is by far and beyond the most divisive of the expansions. People can point to SB but that was mostly due to story and pacing. EW suffers from a lot of bad decisions people complained about early, that still weren't addressed.

It's that level of hubris that brought WoW down.

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as someone who didnt play WoW .. stop bringing this WoW stuff here . thank you .