Dev Harassment is concerning

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Originally Posted by thereal_aliceanders

Just curious is there actual proof of death threats? I'm not seeing them. All I'm seeing is some legit pissed off people, doing what they (including myself) do when SE makes an epic mistake, they call them out on the forums.

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Wander onto Twitter or certain subreddits, and you won't have to look far to find one or two. At least, depending on what you define as "death threats". "I wish someone would set the developers on fire so I could stand there and watch them burn to death and not pour water on them" is not an actual threat, per se, but wishing death upon the devs -- even if obviously hyperbole -- still is unsettling and almost certainly doesn't make any dev team member who stumbles across it feel particularly good about community interaction.

Thankfully, the FFXIV community seems somewhat less prone to that extreme of reactions to things they're unhappy about -- and I've seen none of them on this particular forum! -- but "less wishes of death upon the developers than most games will get" doesn't mean "no such posts at all".

The same is true with folks saying that this was a scam and the developers should be thrown in jail for fraud; I don't think any of them are actually serious, but it still taints the discourse and is likely not going to make anyone on the dev team inclined to read a thread containing stuff like that, whether it's only angry hyperbole or not.

I'm like 1000.75% certain the op is bi-polar...

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Originally Posted by rainichan

Well this thread certainly took a turn!

While I don't disagree with the original post- most game devs are overworked and working crunch times is insane for them- the right for people to voice their displeasure is there.

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True. But this is a management problem and not the fault of the devs. So blame the SQEX management for this situation. :)



Cheers

I’m surprised that this thread hasn’t been deleted yet; speaking of which, thank you very much to any moderators who look at this thread and any other instances of harassment across the forums!

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Yes because expecting a modicum of respect and constructive thought/discussion is a difficult concept to grasp, thus we are all designated as white knights for not having a misaligned social compass.

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I’d argue making that post and then proceeding to call everyone who disagrees with anything they say an ingrate, r*word, disrespectful, idiot, etc, is actually a white knight. Which is what OP has done

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

I’d argue making that post and then proceeding to call everyone who disagrees with anything they say an ingrate, r*word, disrespectful, idiot, etc, is actually a white knight. Which is what OP has done

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I would argue that is hypocrisy and double standards more than anything.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I would argue that is hypocrisy and double standards more than anything.

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It can be both to be fair, I just woke up from a food nap my apologies. They’re WKing for SQueenix, pulling the whole “devs *slave away* doing this for you all! stop criticizing unless you criticize the way *I* want you too.” (which btw dig a bit further and their way is… phew). While also being hypocritical.

Way I see it, there's probably a lot of people in those offices living on coffee and fumes right now. They're aware of the issue and are actively working on it. They may have some things in their QA process they need to look at. I can only see adding to the stress as a negative thing that will accomplish nothing and could serve to demoralize people who are already probably feeling pretty low as it is. It's not fun to have a bug.

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Originally Posted by Broken_Wind

The thing is, none of us know this wasn't the case
I 100% understand why people jump to this conclusion, as it seems like this is something that should not have happened

But it is possible to thoroughly test something only to have a completely unforeseen thing come along

As far as MMORPGs go, FFXIV is not typically a game prone to major bugs. While its entirely possible that something slipped by that should have been caught with an appropriate amount of testing, there isn't concrete evidence of this.

And even if it is the case, if they properly fix it, give people their right lottery results, and most importantly ensure this isnt a pattern of severe bugs then its not a big deal.

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Most of the people I see jumping to this conclusion are assuming 1) the lottery is running on some general random number generator and 2) that the random number generation is the issue. When they mentioned patterns to the lottery in their system, that made me consider it's probably not some general system and when you make things more complex, more things can break. But people are happy to call the devs idiots and scoff that it's elementary level programming when they haven't even seen the code or what the code has to communicate with. Because that's the other half. The problem may not be in the lottery at all, but what the lottery code is touching. And like you said, you can test everything you can think of and still have something happen when it's in the production environment. We'll probably never get the full extent, but they do try to walk us through the layman's explanation when they have it. They just need time to figure that out.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

Wander onto Twitter or certain subreddits, and you won't have to look far to find one or two. At least, depending on what you define as "death threats". "I wish someone would set the developers on fire so I could stand there and watch them burn to death and not pour water on them" is not an actual threat, per se, but wishing death upon the devs -- even if obviously hyperbole -- still is unsettling and almost certainly doesn't make any dev team member who stumbles across it feel particularly good about community interaction.

Thankfully, the FFXIV community seems somewhat less prone to that extreme of reactions to things they're unhappy about -- and I've seen none of them on this particular forum! -- but "less wishes of death upon the developers than most games will get" doesn't mean "no such posts at all".

The same is true with folks saying that this was a scam and the developers should be thrown in jail for fraud; I don't think any of them are actually serious, but it still taints the discourse and is likely not going to make anyone on the dev team inclined to read a thread containing stuff like that, whether it's only angry hyperbole or not.

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Then it seems to me people like the OP should be bringing the subject up on the social media where the transgressions are occurring not here on the forums where I have yet to see the type of vitriol you get on the open web.

It just seems folks forget the dev team is full of human beings that can and will make mistakes. Some are willing to work with them and empathize while others expect perfection and will rag if thats not met.
People siding with devs aren't whiteknights. People saying the devs are perfect are.
Or everyone cares to join the negative brigade and they shouldn't be labeled for that. Criticism is fine. Being an arse is not

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Originally Posted by Blackmagebro

Hello all!

I am new to posting here and I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place for this but I feel its necessary to be said regardless. I've seen quite a lot of heated discussions about the player housing situation and a few other past events where players have felt slighted or in some way inconvenienced and overwhelmingly people have been voicing their frustrations in a way that seems a tad overkill. Frustration is one thing but calling devs names or being hysterical about this or any situation does nothing but cause real people to be stressed out. I know we often laud the dev team and Yoshi-P especially but the opposite can be true too. Very bi-polar which is to be expected from such a large MMO audience.

I hope people who read this can voice their frustrations more gently and constructively in the future. I'm sorry you were inconvenienced but this is a game that you enjoy and its a career that game devs slave at to make. the disparity between our commitments is immeasurable. They want to make the best game they can and believing otherwise is foolish. I don't mean this to be another "praise Yoshi-P!" post so please understand that I just think our collective voices when compounded have a very drastic effect on real people and we should act accordingly.

TL;DR stop being mean pls

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"Stop being mean"
> going on a tirade in the very same post you make being toxic and "Mean" to others

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Originally Posted by Lecru

"Stop being mean"
> going on a tirade in the very same post you make being toxic and "Mean" to others

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Um...a tirade? Idk if that's an apt description

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Originally Posted by Claviusnex

Then it seems to me people like the OP should be bringing the subject up on the social media where the transgressions are occurring not here on the forums where I have yet to see the type of vitriol you get on the open web.

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On that, I do agree.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

It just seems folks forget the dev team is full of human beings that can and will make mistakes.

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Wish my job was this forgiving, lol. Screw up too many times, you are out on your butt!

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Wish my job was this forgiving, lol. Screw up too many times, you are out on your butt!

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Yet we have a bunch of jobs in our American society were people have done FAR worse things yet they still keep their jobs.

This analogy doesnt work anymore.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Yet we have a bunch of jobs in our American society were people have done FAR worse things yet they still keep their jobs.

This analogy doesnt work anymore.

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And everyone complains about the lack of quality everywhere. Surely there isn't a pattern or anything that can easily be noticed, right? :^)

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

And everyone complains about the lack of quality everywhere. Surely there isn't a pattern or anything that can easily be noticed, right? :^)

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Theres a threshold where if the person in charge is willing and capable of owning up and fixing their mistakes then they should be given the chance. Thats my ideal take when it comes to people in the workforce.

However if you have those that do stupid things, have no care for their work, have caused far more grief and damage to their job, yet still get rewarded and dont face consequences (aka A CERTAIN CEO OF ACTIVISION) then this is where they should be fired immediately. Yet we dont see that happen.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

(aka A CERTAIN CEO OF ACTIVISION).

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You DO know that many consider SE the Actiblizz of Japan, right? lol
Though personally speaking, Bamco is not that far behind imo, but that's more of a quality issue than a nickle and dime issue.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

You DO know that many consider SE the Actiblizz of Japan, right? lol
Though personally speaking, Bamco is not that far behind imo, but that's more of a quality issue than a nickle and dime issue.

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I dont see or hear news of people in SE going around harrassing their employees, sharing nudes, threatening people with death threats and stealing breast milk. Not gonna pretend that shady stuff dont or cant happen in the workforce of SE but until we hear stories like that coming from them then Im not holding them accountable for that kind of speculation.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

but until we hear stories like that coming from them then Im not holding them accountable for that kind of speculation.

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No, people are just holding them accountable for the lack of QA and less content per patch while adding more and more to the mogshop. It's really a simple concept, lol.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

No, people are just holding them accountable for the lack of QA and less content per patch while adding more and more to the mogshop. It's really a simple concept, lol.

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Please direct me to this less content per patch outside of losing a dungeon? Because we got a shit ton of stuff this patch from a decent sized MSQ patch, Adventure Plates, an overhauled PvP system, a new Alliance Raid, the Hatching Tide event, with more to come in 6.11 and 6.15. And there's plenty of in game items to earn compared to the mogstation stuff.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

No, people are just holding them accountable for the lack of QA and less content per patch while adding more and more to the mogshop. It's really a simple concept, lol.

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True but still the lesser of two evils here.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

Please direct me to this less content per patch outside of losing a dungeon? Because we got a shit ton of stuff this patch from a decent sized MSQ patch, Adventure Plates, an overhauled PvP system, a new Alliance Raid, the Hatching Tide event, with more to come in 6.11 and 6.15. And there's plenty of in game items to earn compared to the mogstation stuff.

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Just use the search function. The debate has been done to death and to be honest, if the lack of content was that bad then I wouldn't be posting here. What most are saying is that there has been decline since HW with bumps here and there. The PvP update was pretty sick and I wish they would show that much effort in other areas of the game. Hopefully the devs are realizing some issues but the fact they are simplifying the game further makes me think the PvP team deserves a raise for showing up the PvE team in how to keep classes unique, lol.

One recent example of less content is the decision to delay the release of the new beast tribe quests and custom delivery NPC. In the past, they were included with the initial load of new content when a patch first went live. Now they're being held back a month just to pad out the wait until 6.2 because there really isn't much else set to be added until 6.2 for the majority of players.

What's interesting is that both pieces of content are weekly tasks and as such would be beneficial being released sooner rather than later. Especially since they're meant to be catch up mechanisms for gaining experience.

More content along the lines of the new PvP mode that people can just jump into whenever they like would be wonderful. Especially if the development team can find ways to avoid it dying out after the initial rush.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

It just seems folks forget the dev team is full of human beings that can and will make mistakes. Some are willing to work with them and empathize while others expect perfection and will rag if thats not met.
People siding with devs aren't whiteknights. People saying the devs are perfect are.
Or everyone cares to join the negative brigade and they shouldn't be labeled for that. Criticism is fine. Being an arse is not

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The problem is it’s not just one or two mistakes. It’s MANY.
Between the horrible launch where people couldn’t even log on for the early release, and the devs still thinking it was fine to officially launch the game at that time when they had already seen in early release the servers were breaking….i mean that’s literally what early release is for, and instead they decided to be greedy.

Then we get to the healer problems, the gutting, the lack of engagement even after 6 years, then we get to the new hrothgar hairs that players have been waiting patiently for 3 years and theyre such a shit show even the devs were laughing about it on stream. Then to the just, overall treatment of both limited races and the lack of headgear etc,i mean viera can’t even wear the new pvp helmet. How are you gonna lock an entire set behind a pretty hefty grind, and then not make it fully accessible to an entire race. Then now we get to the housing problems. It’s starting to boil over, the game is making record profits, it set record player count, yet we’re seeing less and less quality as the expansion goes on, we’re seeing devs laughing at things that…it’s just plain disrespectful. It truly does seem like they don’t care at this point.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

Please direct me to this less content per patch outside of losing a dungeon? Because we got a shit ton of stuff this patch from a decent sized MSQ patch, Adventure Plates, an overhauled PvP system, a new Alliance Raid, the Hatching Tide event, with more to come in 6.11 and 6.15. And there's plenty of in game items to earn compared to the mogstation stuff.

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We literally didn’t get 89 dungeon gear this expansion, which has never happened any other expansion. We didn’t get our pvp set from wolf marks this expansion yet, we got the others in x.1.(the set in the new pvp rewards is the equivalent of a feast set afaik). We didn’t get a tataru glam in ShB and the one we got this expansion was a reused set. In SB samurai and rdm both got level 50/60/70 primal weapons. Dnc,Gnb,Sage,and Rpr still do not.The p4s raid does not have a change in boss theme for the second phase, its all the same song.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

Please direct me to this less content per patch outside of losing a dungeon? Because we got a shit ton of stuff this patch from a decent sized MSQ patch, Adventure Plates, an overhauled PvP system, a new Alliance Raid, the Hatching Tide event, with more to come in 6.11 and 6.15. And there's plenty of in game items to earn compared to the mogstation stuff.

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It isn't any different than any other x.1 patches either. The only special thing we got outside the norm was the adventure plates. I won't count pvp cause this is like the 4th time it was revamped. And although it's the best pvp we have had so far, it's still not very good over all when compared to other games. Hatching tide even is not patch related, it just happened to fall on the patch date, it would have happened regardless.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

“We have to send death threats or they’ll become Wow ):”

This is ridiculous.

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Yeah forums treat wow devs the same way. Unfortuately people feel more brazin and want to feel like tough guys because well less consequence for their actions.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

The problem is it’s not just one or two mistakes. It’s MANY.
Between the horrible launch where people couldn’t even log on for the early release, and the devs still thinking it was fine to officially launch the game at that time when they had already seen in early release the servers were breaking….i mean that’s literally what early release is for, and instead they decided to be greedy.

Then we get to the healer problems, the gutting, the lack of engagement even after 6 years, then we get to the new hrothgar hairs that players have been waiting patiently for 3 years and theyre such a shit show even the devs were laughing about it on stream. Then to the just, overall treatment of both limited races and the lack of headgear etc,i mean viera can’t even wear the new pvp helmet. How are you gonna lock an entire set behind a pretty hefty grind, and then not make it fully accessible to an entire race. Then now we get to the housing problems. It’s starting to boil over, the game is making record profits, it set record player count, yet we’re seeing less and less quality as the expansion goes on, we’re seeing devs laughing at things that…it’s just plain disrespectful. It truly does seem like they don’t care at this point.

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Yeah because I guess them saying they've had difficulty acquiring servers months prior isn't good enough. They had just pop them out of thin air because "rich corpo". Again that's not how that works and they've been VERY open about that fact yet you'd call them greedy.
Far as the new races go I've said it before that they need work. There's no refuting that. But it's literally a helmet. I'll take the loses (for now) and be glad at least most of the set can be worn. Idk what's going on behind the scenes that makes those races hard to work with so I'm not gonna hope on the hate train and judge.
SE handles the money, not Yoshi P. If xiv isn't getting the funding it needs it isn't his fault. And you speak of quality yet the story and content we've gotten has all been just that. Housing? That's a blip for sure, but again human error is a concept. The devs aren't machines. They're people who make mistakes. But again that's not good enough.
Classes being gutted. I'll admit I'm not a fan of this. But I also don't think its the end of the world like many others. It's very clear they want to lower the bar of entry with classes to appeal to the masses. I can't exactly fault them for that.

All in all you're taking this personally when you don't need to and painting the game in a far worse light than it really is in imo

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Yeah because I guess them saying they've had difficulty acquiring servers months prior isn't good enough. They had just pop them out of thin air because "rich corpo". Again that's not how that works and they've been VERY open about that fact yet you'd call them greedy.
Far as the new races go I've said it before that they need work. There's no refuting that. But it's literally a helmet. I'll take the loses (for now) and be glad at least most of the set can be worn. Idk what's going on behind the scenes that makes those races hard to work with so I'm not gonna hope on the hate train and judge.
SE handles the money, not Yoshi P. If xiv isn't getting the funding it needs it isn't his fault. And you speak of quality yet the story and content we've gotten has all been just that. Housing? That's a blip for sure, but again human error is a concept. The devs aren't machines. They're people who make mistakes. But again that's not good enough.
Classes being gutted. I'll admit I'm not a fan of this. But I also don't think its the end of the world like many others. It's very clear they want to lower the bar of entry with classes to appeal to the masses. I can't exactly fault them for that.

All in all you're taking this personally when you don't need to and painting the game in a far worse light than it really is in imo

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Its not just one helmet though, is it. It is without a doubt the majority of helmets in the game. 2 years, and we can't even say the devs have made a significant amount of the helmets wearable of the new races. We can still only just say they made a small amount of them wearable. I know there was covid, but shadowbringers was released in 2019. Like, if 4 years to give races hats is too much of a problem for them, I don't really know what to say. I believe them when it says its hard, but Modders have literally done it. I'm aware there will be more burecracy in a corpo like square but 4 years? That's hard to defend.

I am not a hroth or Viera but being thankful that most of the set can be worn is an absurd notion to me. What, the viera, who just use a long midlander body, and the hroths, who just use a hunched roe body, and we should be glad the devs managed to grace us with wearable shoes and pants? I am not glad that they give the shb races wearable shoes and pants. I expect them to, along with helmets. Are they gonna make us wait another 4 years, or give us more jellybean hair. Probably both.

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Originally Posted by Manofpassion

Its not just one helmet though, is it. It is without a doubt the majority of helmets in the game. 2 years, and we can't even say the devs have made a significant amount of the helmets wearable of the new races. We can still only just say they made a small amount of them wearable. I know there was covid, but shadowbringers was released in 2019. Like, if 4 years to give races hats is too much of a problem for them, I don't really know what to say. I believe them when it says its hard, but Modders have literally done it. I'm aware there will be more burecracy in a corpo like square but 4 years? That's hard to defend.

I am not a hroth or Viera but being thankful that most of the set can be worn is an absurd notion to me. What, the viera, who just use a long midlander body, and the hroths, who just use a hunched roe body, and we should be glad the devs managed to grace us with wearable shoes and pants? I am not glad that they give the shb races wearable shoes and pants. I expect them to, along with helmets. Are they gonna make us wait another 4 years, or give us more jellybean hair. Probably both.

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Hey, you don't have to agree with me on that. I don't know why more can't be worn so I'll take what's given for now. Sure modders have done it and if folks want it that badly they can go to them for it for now. While it's unfortunate I'd rather the dev team focus on other issues

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Hey, you don't have to agree with me on that. I don't know why more can't be worn so I'll take what's given for now. Sure modders have done it and if folks want it that badly they can go to them for it for now. While it's unfortunate I'd rather the dev team focus on other issues

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Well maybe Yoshi P shouldn’t have begged for a beast race then, if he wasn’t going to take care of it, and wasn’t even going to play one. That’s what’s truly rich. He wanted a beast race for so long yet he still plays a female lala and a female au ra, no hrothgar in sight. Meanwhile he’s left the entire race out to rot. Also console players don’t have access to mods, so not everyone can just go to them. The devs have had 3-4 years to fix this and they haven’t. This helmet situation though screams of laziness. Why? Because they have specifically made it for other helmets in the game where the ears just clip through the helmet, so why is this one any different. Either don’t release a set of gear until it’s wearable by everyone, or at the very least don’t lock it behind a major grind.

This is what i mean about quality. We haven’t seen much of a major improvement at all in these new races and it’s been almost 4 years. You can mention the story but i don’t see that as quality, the fact they said they cut an entire expansion and then seeing what we got with this expansion and the dumbed down dungeons and the missing dungeon gear, yeah sorry no i don’t see that as an increase in quality, more like a downgrade.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Hey, you don't have to agree with me on that. I don't know why more can't be worn so I'll take what's given for now. Sure modders have done it and if folks want it that badly they can go to them for it for now. While it's unfortunate I'd rather the dev team focus on other issues

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Its easy to say I rather the dev team focuses on other issues when it doesn't affect your race. I'm no hroth player, but it's clear to me someone why pays for the same sub as I do should not be given unfair restrictions just because of their in game race. They announced it was limited at first fine. But it seems like they are gonna be limited until the game dies in like 30 years now.

The devs made a big show about how beast tribes are gonna be renamed now to be more in accordance with the game's theme of equality and diversity in all races and all that jazz. I don't disagree with that. But it's time for the devs to actually show they believe in the theme of their own story and make hroths and vieras a second class race no longer. Name branding is easy and superfluous. Putting the races up to par with another requires actual work and means something. Put their money where their mouth is make those races equal.

Also, I don't think telling hroths and viera that if they want basic race features that they should break tos and install mods is a satisfying answer. When the only way to make your race not feel gimped is to risk being banned, thats pretty shitty. Not to mention those playing on console.

Also obligatory they're obviously not focusing on housing because it's shit, but that's a dead horse even I am a bit sick of beating. Housing devs still better pull their finger out though, it's been in there for a decade!

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

It just seems folks forget the dev team is full of human beings that can and will make mistakes. Some are willing to work with them and empathize while others expect perfection and will rag if thats not met.
People siding with devs aren't whiteknights. People saying the devs are perfect are.
Or everyone cares to join the negative brigade and they shouldn't be labeled for that. Criticism is fine. Being an arse is not

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Agreed. Feedback should be kept civil.