6.08 Patch Notes

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Originally Posted by AzazelCaine

MCH main reporting in. Changes - as expected. Will continue to pray for mercy throughout the expansion. :rolleyes:

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We'd better pray now and really hard.

Considering 20 potency on 1 2 3 + Heatblast, was all MCH got in ShB.
Plus the 5 second on reassemble to encourage skillspeed build but all BiS were at 2.50s.
Also Tactician(s) on 120s because 180s was ridiculously high.

ah yes a buff to one abilty that that goes off at most once 120 seconds (unless some idiot in your group botches a mechanic and kills you resetting the the counter) truly earth shattering

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Originally Posted by Xiu_Ye

Gonna start with saying I don't care what yoshi wanted. I'm actively disagreeing with his statement. And monk was already comfortably ahead of reaper. To the tune of hundreds of DPS.

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This is verifiably incorrect. I just checked the current numbers from Pandaemonium savage. Monk and reaper are basically neck and neck with reaper being #1 on some floors and monk being #1 on others, and the difference is not "hundreds of DPS" but in some cases the average makes the gap as small as 15 DPS

P4S part 2, for example, Reaper is 8,134 DPS and Monk is 8,129. And this is a pattern that repeats across all floors, in no case is the gap between the two jobs "hundreds" and additionally, the only fights of the five as fflogs has them divided where monk is ahead of reaper are P2 and P4 part 1.

Obviously the devs think one thing, you think another. However the only opinion of the two that matters is the devs, and they think this gap shouldn't be so close. So monk got a less than 1% buff to its damage.

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Originally Posted by dapperfaffer

Is the Tomahawk buff really a big deal?

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I think it's more along the line of SE just can't let their poster boy go a buff cycle without buffing something. There was no reason to buff it, but they did it anyway. Now PLD alone has the weakest throw at 100 while everyone else now has 150. Yes, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, but heaven forbid the WAR has a downside in ANYTHING besides Overpower (it's a cone while everyone else has an aoe).

The removal of snek tether visual upsets me greatly, i am removing the ability from my hotbars until it is restored. I will be a dragoon main until i quit the game but i shall not abide this insult.

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Originally Posted by Abomination713

I think it's more along the line of SE just can't let their poster boy go a buff cycle without buffing something. There was no reason to buff it, but they did it anyway. Now PLD alone has the weakest throw at 100 while everyone else now has 150. Yes, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, but heaven forbid the WAR has a downside in ANYTHING besides Overpower (it's a cone while everyone else has an aoe).

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To be fair PLD also has an entire part of it's rotation that is ranged, so a shield lob buff wouldn't really be necessary to put it in line with the other tanks, when it already far outstrips them when at range.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

This is verifiably incorrect. I just checked the current numbers from Pandaemonium savage. Monk and reaper are basically neck and neck with reaper being #1 on some floors and monk being #1 on others, and the difference is not "hundreds of DPS" but in some cases the average makes the gap as small as 15 DPS

P4S part 2, for example, Reaper is 8,134 DPS and Monk is 8,129. And this is a pattern that repeats across all floors, in no case is the gap between the two jobs "hundreds" and additionally, the only fights of the five as fflogs has them divided where monk is ahead of reaper are P2 and P4 part 1.

Obviously the devs think one thing, you think another. However the only opinion of the two that matters is the devs, and they think this gap shouldn't be so close. So monk got a less than 1% buff to its damage.

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You like to cherry pick? P1 using the site you're referring to mnk is 9423.6 v rpr 9161.2
P2 monk 9091.9 v rpr 8861.2
P3 monk 9506.8 v 9314.4

Monk is number one on every floor.

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Originally Posted by Lilyth

https://i.redd.it/rsyksddaj9581.png

Dragon sight let's goooo

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That's one huge lightsaber.

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

as a healer the less healing i have to do the happier i am

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If this is the case then perhaps you should try being a dps if you hate actually healing.

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Originally Posted by Xiu_Ye

You like to cherry pick? P1 using the site you're referring to mnk is 9423.6 v rpr 9161.2
P2 monk 9091.9 v rpr 8861.2
P3 monk 9506.8 v 9314.4

Monk is number one on every floor.

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I'm looking at the 75th percentile for pandemonium savage on fflogs. Your numbers are... well I don't know where they're from since even at the 99th percentile, neither job cracks 9,000 on any floor.

P1
RPR : 7,720
MNK : 7,712

P2
MNK : 7,601
RPR : 7,557

P3
RPR : 7,835
MNK : 7,778

P4.1
MNK : 8,121
RPR : 8,104

P4.2
RPR : 8,134
MNK : 8,129

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Originally Posted by wereotter

I'm looking at the 75th percentile for pandemonium savage on fflogs. Your numbers are... well I don't know where they're from since even at the 99th percentile, neither job cracks 9,000 on any floor.

P1
RPR : 7,720
MNK : 7,712

P2
MNK : 7,601
RPR : 7,557

P3
RPR : 7,835
MNK : 7,778

P4.1
MNK : 8,121
RPR : 8,104

P4.2
RPR : 8,134
MNK : 8,129

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Why would you balance anything on 75%ile? You balance at Max DPS. Especially this early with gear differences

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Originally Posted by Xiu_Ye

Why would you balance anything on 75%ile? You balance at Max DPS. Especially this early with gear differences

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The developers don't and never have balanced jobs based off the top parse in the world. They expect those to be outliers of performance, and if disparities exist there, it's fine. If that's your baseline as to how jobs should be balanced, then you're out of touch with how the game works. If anything I'm being too high based off how they look at jobs, which is generally how they balance in the hands of the "average" player, or the 50th percentile.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

The developers don't and never have balanced jobs based off the top parse in the world. They expect those to be outliers of performance, and if disparities exist there, it's fine. If that's your baseline as to how jobs should be balanced, then you're out of touch with how the game works. If anything I'm being too high based off how they look at jobs, which is generally how they balance in the hands of the "average" player, or the 50th percentile.

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This game has never been balanced around 50%ile and I think you're the one out of touch. You can maybe argue for 99%

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

I like the DRK changes.

Would it have killed them to buff Flamethrower on MCH?

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Right? That skill is such a waste right now.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

From a balance perspective, they are irrelevant because none of that content is tuned remotely close to what the jobs are capable of. Case in point, if you outright deleted Bloodwhetting, TBN, Corundum and Shelltron. What changes? Absolutely nothing. The healers still spend 90%+ of their casts on the ST/AoE nuke.

Even mildly insinuating Expert is more important than Savage is completely laughable. I'd like to remind you they've readily been removing dungeons every expansion. Can't say the same about savage

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Expert has literally been the last two dungeons for some time now. And you’re just being inane if you think removing those abilities won’t have an impact on expert. Savage raiders always thinks their content is the only content that matters when they’re in the minority. WoW has the same problems, optimizing for a minority of players. If savage is where they look at single target, expert is where they should look for aoe.

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Originally Posted by AzazelCaine

MCH main reporting in. Changes - as expected. Will continue to pray for mercy throughout the expansion. :rolleyes:

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As a fellow MCH main, it feels very much like we are the stepchildren banished to the corner.

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Originally Posted by WiccaP

As a fellow MCH main, it feels very much like we are the stepchildren banished to the corner.

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Atleast you didn't lose anything..
[cries in dragoon]

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Originally Posted by Xiu_Ye

This game has never been balanced around 50%ile and I think you're the one out of touch. You can maybe argue for 99%

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This game has never been balanced...

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Originally Posted by Adils

Atleast you didn't lose anything..
[cries in dragoon]

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I dont think the MCH hear your weak cries about a thether animation over the sound of their glaring issues...

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Originally Posted by Delily

Expert has literally been the last two dungeons for some time now. And you’re just being inane if you think removing those abilities won’t have an impact on expert. Savage raiders always thinks their content is the only content that matters when they’re in the minority. WoW has the same problems, optimizing for a minority of players. If savage is where they look at single target, expert is where they should look for aoe.

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My dude, Bloodwhetting didn't exist in Shadowbringers. Guess what? You barely even looked at a tank's HP in Expert. I'll go you one better. I've done Shadowbringer Expert dungeons without even taking a tank. That's how pathetically tuned they are. Taking away all the abilities I mentioned wouldn't have any noteworthy impact because healers barely have to heal Experts to begin with. I could do any of the current three dungeons without ever looking at Bloodwhetting, Thrill or Equilibrium and I'd still never need a single GCD heal on any of the pulls.

This has nothing to do with "SaVaGe RaIdErS!!" but the simple fact dungeons are woefully undertuned. Therefore, balance matters significantly less when every single job is already leagues overpowered in there.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

I dont think the MCH hear your weak cries about a thether animation over the sound of their glaring issues...

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Well one of the main benefits of playing a game over MS excel is that it has visual elements that provide enjoyment rather than just being a bunch of numbers.

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Originally Posted by Adils

Atleast you didn't lose anything..
[cries in dragoon]

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The range on your tether was more than doubled and dragoons dps increase(2.45% total) is 270% of the mch increase( .9% total). Idk if i would call the removal of an animation a "loss" to the job. And no Im not saying MCH "should do as much dmg as melee" but with Mch lack of party or personal utility, brd and dnc will outpace mch making it less viable for a majority of endgame content numbers wise.

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Originally Posted by Adils

Well one of the main benefits of playing a game over MS excel is that it has visual elements that provide enjoyment rather than just being a bunch of numbers.

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And visually a majority of Dragoon abilities are flashier than a mch abilities, at least in my opinion. I've heard people talk about how flashy mch skills are and thats why "casuals love it" but as a mch main, our ability animations arent that amazing compared to other classes.

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Originally Posted by Adils

Well one of the main benefits of playing a game over MS excel is that it has visual elements that provide enjoyment rather than just being a bunch of numbers.

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Thats all well and good but the loss of a single tether visual doesn't degrade dragoons visual animations to the level of MS excel nor is it comparable to the mechanical and dps issues faced by MCH. Comes off a bit mocking to tell a group of players that literally got thrown table scraps that at least they didnt lose a tether animation.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Thats all well and good but the loss of a single tether visual doesn't degrade dragoons visual animations to the level of MS excel nor is it comparable to the mechanical and dps issues faces by MCH. Comes off a bit mocking to tell a group of players that literally got thrown table scraps that at least they didnt lose a tether animation.

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Yes, atleast they didn't lose something that they enjoy for no reason. I don't think the game would be destroyed by increasing the range with the animation intact.

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Originally Posted by Adils

Yes, atleast they didn't lose something that they enjoy for no reason. I don't think the game would be destroyed by increasing the range with the animation intact.

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Perhaps there were issues with the collisions, maybe the new range just made it bug out and they couldn't get it resolved in time. Who can say for sure to what reason but I can say for certain they didn't just yank the visual for no reason. Just saying, your going to get far less sympathy for the thether visual compared to the problems faced by mechanists.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Perhaps there were issues with the collisions, maybe the new range just made it bug out and they couldn't get it resolved in time. Who can say for sure to what reason but I can say for certain they didn't just yank the visual for no reason. Just saying, your going to get far less sympathety for the thether visual compared to the problems faced by mechanists.

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If the reason was that "some people run off and die because they mistake the tether for a dangerous mechanic." then i stand by my point that it was for no reason. But i'm fine with machinists not caring for loss of visual elements, i have no sympathy for only caring about numbers. Just get better gear :')

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Originally Posted by Adils

If the reason was that "some people run off and die because they mistake the tether for a dangerous mechanic." then i stand by my point that it was for no reason. But i'm fine with machinists not caring for loss of visual elements, i have no sympathy for only caring about numbers. Just get better gear :')

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By all means, stand by "people running off and dying due to tether" /shrug

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Originally Posted by Adils

If the reason was that "some people run off and die because they mistake the tether for a dangerous mechanic." then i stand by my point that it was for no reason. But i'm fine with machinists not caring for loss of visual elements, i have no sympathy for only caring about numbers. Just get better gear :')

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It's not about just caring about numbers, its about feeling useful to the party and not feeling like we bring the whole group down by playing a job we like. Its about the fact that compared to the other ranged physical jobs, mch will have a harder time comparing to them.

Keep that MCH flag flying, griefing or no.

Imagine being so immature that you can't stand another class complaining about losing on of their main elements just because yours didn't get numbers buffed.
That's absolutely petty.

"I didn't get my things so others should lose theirs too"

WHM working as intended then, great...

well we can argue that mnk buff was not needed, but we can notice that sam (0 partybuff) is still behind mnk and reaper?

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Originally Posted by Adils

Atleast you didn't lose anything..
[cries in dragoon]

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*LAUGHS AND CRIES IN AST FOR 4 YEARS*

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Originally Posted by Adils

Well one of the main benefits of playing a game over MS excel is that it has visual elements that provide enjoyment rather than just being a bunch of numbers.

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Oh yeah about that.
The problem isn't that MCH damage are insanely low, it's that you are not useful to the party compared to BRD/DNC.

Visuals?
MCH got a cool shotgun... Only used in dungeons.
Chainsaw animation is often criticized as going to fast and barely noticeable.
Automaton Queen is bland and its super punch is a bland.

MCH got 3 new animations, DRG got 4 if you want to measure "visuals".

Gameplay?
Drill, Air Anchor and Buzzsaw are good design. However:
-MCH still spam 5 times in a row Heatblast where WAR&DRK got their spam phase reduced to 3.
-ShB Automaton Queen was press and forget. EW Automaton Queen is press and forget.
-EW Automaton Queen is now even worse because of its AI limitation. In short: It's not fun but even more frustrating to deal with.
-Wildfire is press and forget (You just chain with an Hypercharge like the many Hypercharge you had before)
-Flamethrower is still worth an emote, juste like Anatman and Oblation.

You're crying about a red tether?
Be thankful your job is fun to play and is useful to the party.

Everyone talks about dps dps dps, give me more, they have enough and so on.
But I assume we are talking about 500-900 dps +/-. But how can you know exactly? After all, a dps meter is not officially allowed. Don't get me wrong - a DPS meter is a must in any serious MMO, so please stop this childish carnival and unlock an official API for it.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

*LAUGHS AND CRIES IN AST FOR 4 YEARS*

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Those old Ewer buff and Arrow buff become Astrodyne now :(

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

Those old Ewer buff and Arrow buff become Astrodyne now :(

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funny, I don't remember being able to give astrodyne to other players or sac it for an aoe card or a super long card

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Originally Posted by Stohelit

Everyone talks about dps dps dps, give me more, they have enough and so on.
But I assume we are talking about 500-900 dps +/-. But how can you know exactly? After all, a dps meter is not officially allowed. Don't get me wrong - a DPS meter is a must in any serious MMO, so please stop this childish carnival and unlock an official API for it.

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Official API is not enough. Let me have something on my PS5 as well.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

funny, I don't remember being able to give astrodyne to other players or sac it for an aoe card or a super long card

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...456609290.webp