Bad decision by SE

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Imagine raging at a man crying because he felt he was letting his fans down due to being unable to have his game ready enough for launch. Imagine raging at him for only a 2 week delay. Imagine being that kind of horrible person, to just rage at somebody who already feels incredibly bad, at a guy who does everything to make the game good for his fans.

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Imagine wanting some accountability for failing to meet your stated objectives and the expectations you yourself put in place. How horrible. Such terrible people we are.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Imagine wanting some accountability for failing to meet your stated objectives and the expectations you yourself put in place. How horrible. Such terrible people we are.

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So cancel you sub. That is the only way you can hold them accountable. All other accountability will be within the business itself.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

So cancel you sub. That is the only way you can hold them accountable. All other accountability will be within the business itself.

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I play this game every day. Why would I do that? You think the only solution to total mismanagement is for individual players to stop enjoying the game? I don't agree with that at all. Personally, I'm just not completely won over and totally forgiving the moment someone begins to show emotion. I prefer to see results, but so far along the whole process, we've gotten the opposite of that.

If he couldn't make the deadline, he never should have canceled the 5.5 Ultimate. That's the worst part of it all. I would have rather they delay the expansion by 3 months and give us that Ultimate rather than scrap the Ultimate promising to make the deadline only to delay it anyways.

I work retail, I took time off, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

FYI This is a creative decision, Not a caproate one, If you actually watched the live letter you'd have heard the part where they say This is YoshiPs decision, that SE aren't happy about it but it works because its HIS PROJECT.

The actual audacity of you demanding a two month delay on a game that's already 6 months behind its normal release schedule because it doesn't work with your off time, is ASTOUNDING

TL:DR Get a better job.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrija

TL: DR Get a better job.

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This is a really a**hole thing to say, which is rich coming from someone acting as if they had the moral high ground

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Originally Posted by lezard21

This is a really a**hole thing to say, which is rich coming from someone acting as if they had the moral high ground

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That's as honest as they get.. I prefer that over words coated in sugar. At least that's what most of them are thinking.

I bet everything seems like the highground when you play a lalafel <3

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Originally Posted by Valkyrija

I bet everything seems like the highground when you play a lalafel <3

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Better read the ToS modifications because these jokes are no longer allowed here.

Delays are good for a game. it's sad that it has caused a big inconvenience for time off, but I'd rather have it ship out ready

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Again, if this was the first or second time, I would be more understanding. When you look at it as, "It's just two weeks.", then you are not seeing the issue entirely, and that is what I am trying to enlighten people to. If Yoshida was anyone other than Yoshi-P, this may very well have costed him his job. This isn't a mid-expansion patch, or an Ultimate tier. This is an entire expansion. You might have also just noticed that I mentioned previous delays, and if you're really perceptive, you will have noticed how there seems to be a pattern that has developed. It might not concern you, but it most certainly does me.

Your trust and confidence in the team is very commendable, but it isn't about them and their work ethic. This is about you, and the rest of us, the consumer. This is about SE's continuous inability to deliver on time. You might remember that EW was already previously pushed back in 2020 when the bug dropped on us, and we knew we would not get it in summer of 2021. Again, we have already been patient; we have already been understanding. When you keep seeing the goalposts being moved and a carrot over your head, you eventually have to wise up and say, "I am not doing this anymore."

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Im just going to stop you there and point out that this is the first time in 11 years that they've EVER had to delay an expansion or even a patch after its reveal date. And I mean EVER. The expansion coming later than normal was already expected they explained that the covid delays disrupted their sheduling and development by nearly 2 months which was unavoidable and they simply could not reclaim this time because of it. As for this last minute delay they've kept everyone informed of the development process including how this expansion is going to be far more content packed than anything before this.

I can understand that there's dissapointment and all but Yoshi is one of those exceptionally few leaders who always stick to their deadlines and always have delivered in the past. The fact that the QA timing and his desire to complete a final proper check of everything to the point that hes willing to bite the bullet and make a once in a blue moon rarity delay of only 2 weeks shows the dedication being put in to make this a success and honestly this is the one time people like yourself should just accept this.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Better read the ToS modifications because these jokes are no longer allowed here.

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Point out the EXACT part of the ToS saying Lalafels are short (IE the sky is blue) breaks ToS. I'll wait.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Better read the ToS modifications because these jokes are no longer allowed here.

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So lalafell jokes are considered racism now? Are we in a clown world? He replied EXACTLY the way they needed to someone that thinks its appropriate to make EVERYONE wait 2 months just to fit their needs. Not only is it extremely selfish, we have ALL been waiting 6 months due to covid for EW, get over yourselves and respect Yoshi's decision.

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Originally Posted by TalonBlades

I am writing this today, as SE made a very poor judgment, which effects many of us across the globe, and to this, will cause issues for far too many of us.
December and January is a busy time for retail, and it requires full staff to avoid disruption. Many of us, kept our annual leave days, so we could play and enjoy the Endwalker story at its original release dats, this will now not happen, because of the bad decision to move it into the worst time of year for retail workers. Some like myslef won't be able to enjoy the story until at least February or March now, or to be able to keep up with savage raiding, will have to skip the story entirely, as of this poor new release.

To counter this, and stop you ruining a lot of players fun and the want to enjoy the game and story properly, you need to either honour your original release date, or the release needs to be postponed until at least February or March 2020, so the whole player base can enjoy the story without rushing or skipping, to keep up with endgame progression.

This is one of the worst decisions in SE history along with the making of "The Avengers" game.

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This is not like this happens all the time and if you watched the Live Letter he was clearly upset that he had to push the release out by 2 weeks. I would rather have all the possible kinks contained and the game as polished as it can be, than they do like other companies and release it full of oversights or worse, delay the launch by several months to a year. I think you should be more tolerant than you are and think before you make the bad decision to come on Lodestone and cry victim. Give the guy a break!

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

I play this game every day. Why would I do that? You think the only solution to total mismanagement is for individual players to stop enjoying the game? I don't agree with that at all. Personally, I'm just not completely won over and totally forgiving the moment someone begins to show emotion. I prefer to see results, but so far along the whole process, we've gotten the opposite of that.

If he couldn't make the deadline, he never should have canceled the 5.5 Ultimate. That's the worst part of it all. I would have rather they delay the expansion by 3 months and give us that Ultimate rather than scrap the Ultimate promising to make the deadline only to delay it anyways.

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Cancelling your sub is the only way players can hold any company to account.

Two more weeks would not have made the 5.5 ultimate possible. The expansion was always the priority so they were never going to sacrifice it for niche content.

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Originally Posted by Annihilism

He replied EXACTLY the way they needed to

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Ok, making fun of someone's job is now the exact way to reply to someone upset about the delay.

Are you sure you are still on the moral high ground?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrija

Point out the EXACT part of the ToS saying Lalafels are short (IE the sky is blue) breaks ToS. I'll wait.

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That's not what you did. You did a "short people" joke.

e: here you go, not gonna waste a daily post on this

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Insulting others with statements that are unrelated to the subject of the discussion, such as "no wonder you can't do this, look at how you dress your character." If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Cancelling your sub is the only way players can hold any company to account.

Two more weeks would not have made the 5.5 ultimate possible. The expansion was always the priority so they were never going to sacrifice it for niche content.

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Where did I ever say anything about two more weeks. I said they should have delayed it as long as needed in order to do the ultimate if they were just going to end up delaying it again anyways. It's a super bad look to scrap an entire ultimate from a patch cycle with the justification of "We needed to do it in order to get Endwalker out on the 19th" and then just turn around and not get Endwalker out on the 19th anyway. If it was going to come down to that, they never should have done it. Should have kept the 5.5 ultimate and then delay Endwalker however long they needed.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Where did I ever say anything about two more weeks. I said they should have delayed it as long as needed in order to do the ultimate if they were just going to end up delaying it again anyways. It's a super bad look to scrap an entire ultimate from a patch cycle with the justification of "We needed to do it in order to get Endwalker out on the 19th" and then just turn around and not get Endwalker out on the 19th anyway. If it was going to come down to that, they never should have done it. Should have kept the 5.5 ultimate and then delay Endwalker however long they needed.

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Again, they are not going to sacrifice an expansion for niche content. They had no way of knowing they'd have to delay. You blaming them for something they could not predict shows how little you know about software or production of anything. Life lesson here, shit happens that is out of your control. It suck, but blaming others for something out of yours and their control is straight up immature.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrija

I bet everything seems like the highground when you play a lalafel <3

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Better read the ToS modifications because these jokes are no longer allowed here.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrija

Point out the EXACT part of the ToS saying Lalafels are short (IE the sky is blue) breaks ToS. I'll wait.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

That's not what you did. You did a "short people" joke.

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Keep reaching like that you'll pull a muscle. C O N T E X T

These threads are comedy gold

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Again, they are not going to sacrifice an expansion for niche content. They had no way of knowing they'd have to delay. You blaming them for something they could not predict shows how little you know about software or production of anything. Life lesson here, shit happens that is out of your control. It suck, but blaming others for something out of yours and their control is straight up immature.

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Here's the bottom line: They did the absolute worst thing they could have done in this scenario. There are a million other things they could have done that would have been better, but they picked the worst option. Like it or not, that's the truth.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

These threads are comedy gold

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Like a really weird episode of reading rainbow

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Again, if this was the first or second time, I would be more understanding. When you look at it as, "It's just two weeks.", then you are not seeing the issue entirely, and that is what I am trying to enlighten people to. If Yoshida was anyone other than Yoshi-P, this may very well have costed him his job. This isn't a mid-expansion patch, or an Ultimate tier. This is an entire expansion. You might have also just noticed that I mentioned previous delays, and if you're really perceptive, you will have noticed how there seems to be a pattern that has developed. It might not concern you, but it most certainly does me.

Your trust and confidence in the team is very commendable, but it isn't about them and their work ethic. This is about you, and the rest of us, the consumer. This is about SE's continuous inability to deliver on time. You might remember that EW was already previously pushed back in 2020 when the bug dropped on us, and we knew we would not get it in summer of 2021. Again, we have already been patient; we have already been understanding. When you keep seeing the goalposts being moved and a carrot over your head, you eventually have to wise up and say, "I am not doing this anymore."

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Sure it is about what everyone thinks though, and there are also people that are pretty much happy to wait because it is only 2 weeks, I am not counting the bug, because that was a huge event that no one could have predicted. If you have lost your trust in them then fine, but many haven't and that is also okay. I don't see them moving the goal posts, the goal is still the same, to deliver a high quality game, so much more important than a rushed product.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Here's the bottom line: They did the absolute worst thing they could have done in this scenario. There are a million other things they could have done that would have been better, but they picked the worst option. Like it or not, that's the truth.

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They only possible better thing you could argue as wrong with what they did is saying it the moment they knew, a week earlier, which would have still screwed over people with their time off they took. All other solutions involve pushing it out of holiday windows which would have upset just as many if not more people, or them having some sort of ability to see the future.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Here's the bottom line: They did the absolute worst thing they could have done in this scenario. There are a million other things they could have done that would have been better, but they picked the worst option. Like it or not, that's the truth.

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Like it or not, deal with it.

Never schedule time off for something that could be delayed. I understand why people would, but... it's a poor decision. That said, while I'm disappointed, I prefer they take the extra time to deal with issues rather than pushing out something broken. I don't want my first experience with the culmination of a storyline I've been playing for years to be soured by bugs or what have you.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Your trust and confidence in the team is very commendable, but it isn't about them and their work ethic. This is about you, and the rest of us, the consumer. This is about SE's continuous inability to deliver on time. You might remember that EW was already previously pushed back in 2020 when the bug dropped on us, and we knew we would not get it in summer of 2021. Again, we have already been patient; we have already been understanding. When you keep seeing the goalposts being moved and a carrot over your head, you eventually have to wise up and say, "I am not doing this anymore."

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I am obviously missing something here. "continuous inability"

please explain and clarify that. I dont recall ANY announcements that it was going to be released in 2020, so please feel free to provide details about their apparent continued inability to meet timelines and release dates aside from THIS TIME.

Thank you. (are you sure you arent confusing them with Blizzard?)

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Here's the bottom line: They did the absolute worst thing they could have done in this scenario. There are a million other things they could have done that would have been better, but they picked the worst option. Like it or not, that's the truth.

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Incorrect. The worst thing they could have done is release a buggy game after they worked hard to come back from 1.0 that has a bunch holes in the story left. Especially after such a large migration from other games. Most notably being WoW.

What you pointed out is the possible worst decision to you. However, this isn't about you alone. This is bigger than an individual.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

I don't think I misunderstood you at all, however I was, and am, trying to respect your point of view while remaining polite.

To be more direct, your statement about there being "no accountability" . What exactly do you expect,? You will still have a functioning product . You are free at any time to cancel your subscription and inform the company that you see this delay as unacceptable. SE is also aware of this - there is one very obvious consequence. The LL was a public and permanent statement of the delay. That delay was immediately broadcast and distribute on who knows how many forms of social media, with possible consequences to any SE shares.

Someone internally at SE had to argue for the delay, then has to explain any related subscription losses, development costs, impacts to later patches, etc. Do you really think that no one is held accountable?

I have no issue whatsoever with this announcement, waiting two more weeks is inconsequential. I DO have *some* sympathy for those who arranged for PTO.
Aside from that - this is a remarkably high quality game, it is available every day, which is what I pay for, and waiting two more weeks is not an issue. I prefer that, rather than receiving a game release when it isn't ready.
Finaally while two weeks is not so surprising when (from what I understand) the largest expansion in FFXIV"s history is being discussed, perfectly understandable that people will feel anything from disappointed, to mad, to resigned, etc.

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I respect your views as well, and I find it quite rare when two people who disagree can just exchange views without ripping each others throats out. I am one of those people who had set aside PTO because I can't take any time off next month, but it honestly isn't even about that. I do agree with you that this is a remarkably high quality game, and as such the standards that they have set for themselves is also high, and not being able to fulfill commitments is not a standard anyone should be getting used to if you want to continue to play a high quality mmo.

What I expect is to not be talking about accountability and consequence at all. I don't want to see anyone having to take the brunt of it, especially those who work the hardest. And that's what's frustrating. When I say, "Where is the accountability?" I'm asking about who it should be assigned to, if it even can. The ambiguity of that is also very frustrating. Yoshi can take responsibility, and I definitely respect that, but you and I both know this man is a sin-eater, and bears the weight of many crosses on his shoulders.

Anywho, I suppose it's all water under the bridge at this point, and the world keeps spinning. Best to look towards the positive instead of looking back.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrija

Keep reaching like that you'll pull a muscle. C O N T E X T

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I’m a little confused on how him being a Lalafell is relevant to the discussion. At that point it seems like a personal jab meant to downplay his perspective.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

These threads are comedy gold

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Honestly it does get a bit tiring seeing them. I can understand the dissapointment of course and the pain of trying to get time off to enjoy this, noone had expected a delay because they were always on time but sometimes these threads start veering into Karen Country and becoming ridiculously self entitled. Sure if we were talking about Bethesda or Blizzard I would say sure go nuts its free real estate but the dev team since Yoshi took the helm have always been strait with their playerbase and never BS'd people. If he decided they needed another 2 weeks to QA everything he deserves the room as he never let people down.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

I am obviously missing something here. "continuous inability"

please explain and clarify that. I dont recall ANY announcements that it was going to be released in 2020, so please feel free to provide details about their apparent continued inability to meet timelines and release dates aside from THIS TIME.

Thank you. (are you sure you arent confusing them with Blizzard?)

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It's a domino effect. In 2020, I think it was patch 5.4 that got delayed, iirc? Doesn't matter too much, but 6.0 was first questioned if it would be delayed as a result of the bug dropping, and the patch being pushed out several weeks. It was then later confirmed that 6.0 would be pushed, and we would get more details about it later; then as you are aware we got the Nov 19th original release date. These are all from the LLs, so you can go back and watch them if you have the time.

And I already pointed out SE's history with not meeting dates. A patch in 2020 was delayed, Ultimate got pushed into 6.0, and now EW in its entirety has been delayed. There's was also the FFVII remake, which got pushed over and over and over. I also believe FFXI for mobile was confirmed and then scrapped. While not Yoshi and his team, it is still SE.

I don't just pull stuff out my arse, dude.

I mean this with the utmost respect: You should not plan your life around a video game;

Don't get me wrong- I am very disappointed too. I get making big plans with friends for limited time events like, especially limited time things, fan fests or the like, but this is hardly a limited event.

This is comparable to delaying a game of D&D/tabletop games with your friends. Or going to the local baseball game two weeks later. The venues/friends are still going to be there.

I trust the devs wouldn't do this for no reason in the same way I'd trust a doctor or mechanic if they said they needed two more weeks. Up to now I've been satisfied with the product I've been using, and frankly, this doesn't even dent my satisfaction. I'll be perfectly happy to play two weeks later, or even 2 months when nobody even remembers there was a delay in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

It's a domino effect. In 2020, I think it was patch 5.4 that got delayed, iirc? Doesn't matter too much, but 6.0 was first questioned if it would be delayed as a result of the bug dropping, and the patch being pushed out several weeks. It was then later confirmed that 6.0 would be pushed, and we would get more details about it later; then as you are aware we got the Nov 19th original release date. These are all from the LLs, so you can go back and watch them if you have the time.

And I already pointed out SE's history with not meeting dates. A patch in 2020 was delayed, Ultimate got pushed into 6.0, and now EW in its entirety has been delayed. There's was also the FFVII remake, which got pushed over and over and over. I also believe FFXI for mobile was confirmed and then scrapped. While not Yoshi and his team, it is still SE.

I don't just pull stuff out my arse, dude.

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You cite one time, that was during a world wide pandemic that was before any date was set... That is one hell of a stretch

Amazing how a two week delay to make sure everything is stable and sound is the end of the world, or the last straw for alot of these people.

You guys new to MMO's or something? I don't know about you folks, but I would rather not have another repeat of Raubahn EX, thanks.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

It's a domino effect. In 2020, I think it was patch 5.4 that got delayed, iirc? Doesn't matter too much, but 6.0 was first questioned if it would be delayed as a result of the bug dropping, and the patch being pushed out several weeks. It was then later confirmed that 6.0 would be pushed, and we would get more details about it later; then as you are aware we got the Nov 19th original release date. These are all from the LLs, so you can go back and watch them if you have the time.

And I already pointed out SE's history with not meeting dates. A patch in 2020 was delayed, Ultimate got pushed into 6.0, and now EW in its entirety has been delayed. There's was also the FFVII remake, which got pushed over and over and over. I also believe FFXI for mobile was confirmed and then scrapped. While not Yoshi and his team, it is still SE.

I don't just pull stuff out my arse, dude.

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really.. well..

5.3 was pushed from June 2020 to August due to the pandemic, and the fact that the QA team could not effectively work from home so they had to renovate the office to accomodate pandemic restrictions. if 5.3 was delayed, it stands to reason, every patch after that would likely be a bit later. however the initial delay is for most I think, justifiable because of a, you know, world wide pandemic. I do understand that for you that is unforgivable delay.

I'll be honest, I dont care about any other game in the franchise, so their delays, sure, you can bring into it, but are meaningless to me in terms of FFxiv.

nice gender assumption by the way ^^ have a wonderful evening neighbour

It was the correct move. How pissed would you be if there servers had to go offline for 3 or 4 days because of issues

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Originally Posted by Anya_Synia

This is the thing, I get the disappointment, heck everyone is disappointed. The thing is though the clear communication between the team and the customer. I have never known such honesty from anyone else that delays a game. The most important thing is trust and the team are doing a damn good job at maintaining that by explaining why it is delayed. Everyone is entitled to be disappointed sure, but if people are gonna start ranting and raging about it that is not constructive. What is constructive is solutions.

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It's also the problem I have. It's okay to be disappointed, everybody is. It's okay not to be happy because it's too late to change PTO or vacation time for the new release date. It's okay not to like the fact it had to be done. It's not okay to rage about it, especially when Yoshi-P crying at the beginning of the Live Letter shows he's just as upset he had to do it as anybody else. Him crying alone proves how much it hurt him to have to do it, how much he tried to avoid having to do it.

If he said it with a straight face, I could understand the frustration. But he is just as disappointed, just as irritated, just as sad as the rest of us that it's having to be delayed. Do not take anything out on him when it's clear to anybody who saw him break down in tears that he did not want to do it any more than us, but didn't want the game released just to have another Raubahn EX plague the game's servers for a few days, or for the game to be literally unplayable because of an error in the code preventing people from loading into maps.

In my opinion the only bad decision was people taking hard earned PTO for a MMORPG expansion, It's pretty common knowledge at this point how volatile expansion launches can be especially when they are released before they are ready, you knew the risk going months in advance that there was a possibility that this would happen and you took it. It's fine to be upset, but it's far from being a bad decision. Yoshi P can take all the time he needs to release the game so it's in a state that is satisfactory for him, this isn't just a normal, run of the mill expansion launch. It's literally going to change and shape the course of the future of the game and he obviously wants it to be as perfect as he can get.

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Originally Posted by TalonBlades

I am writing this today, as SE made a very poor judgment, which effects many of us across the globe, and to this, will cause issues for far too many of us.

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You know what is "effects" many of us right now?

A pandemic. A global pandemic.

Imagine having a delay from a hospital because you're trying to get an organ afflicted by Stage 1 Cancer only for them to literally cancel your surgery 3 days before it happens. Because that's a thing that is happening in my actual real life situation right now. And the best part? You don't know if it's stage 1a or 1b cancer until after the surgery - and if it's 1b then you have to deal with targeted radiology to eradicate the cancer cells that escaped said organ.

Because of a f**king pandemic. Delays happen. Worse scenarios to others than a god damned video game.

But hey, I'm sooo sorry about your situation. That's incredibly hard.

And by the way? This isn't one of the "worst decisions SE has made" - delaying a game to ensure QoL is the best decision, you entitled whiny arrogant mass. Remember Rabaun EX?

Go eat a Snickers bar or something and re-evaluate your damn priorities.

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

I have good news- the game isn't going away & you can actually play it when you have time
I'd rather have a good experience & am happy with the decision to delay

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I love you. Thank you for being the most logical here.

It's fine for Square Enix to extend the release date by two weeks, but as multiple people have posted, people are forced due to the hectic raid cycle to skip cutscenes, which renders all that hard work futile. FFXIV has changed a lot in the past year, and people want to prep for endgame as soon as possible to be world first or to get higher numbers on FFLogs. None of us are in control of that, but it's just unfortunate to see the game change so much and people skipping what is likely to be the best story in all of FFXIV. That means less people we can discuss lore with and share those moments with.