Large quantity of gil disappeared.

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Originally Posted by BristolRuss

Nope.

Don't want to buy coke for one million gil each? Simple, don't click on the retainer and confirm that you do indeed want to buy coke for 1 million gil each.

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Actually they should both be banned/suspended. The auto clicker and the one taking advantage of them. They are both in the wrong.

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Originally Posted by DragoAskani

Actually they should both be banned/suspended. The auto clicker and the one taking advantage of them. They are both in the wrong.

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Normal players shouldn't be expected to guess who is using a bot and who isn't. The default assumption is that everyone is following the rules.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Normal players shouldn't be expected to guess who is using a bot and who isn't. The default assumption is that everyone is following the rules.

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Right because the "normal" player put a vendor full of cheap merchandise for millions of gil conveniently where the botter was is purely accidental. If you believe that I have a lovely bridge I would like to sell you.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

So where have you been the last 7 months since SE announced that many wards will be switched to a lottery system in Endwalker so players who don't like the placard/timer system can simply purchase a ticket for a chance to get a house? You won't need to spam-click a placard anymore if you don't want to (it will still be there for those who don't mind in separate wards). You're still going to have to complete against all the other players who want one but can't get one because there won't be enough to go around.

We as players need to stop letting SE off the hook when it comes to correcting the real problem - the supply. That will never be solved until SE can accept that wards might be a nice idea but they do not work in a MMO with an expanding player base and choose to start putting housing development resources into an enhanced instanced system instead.

It was fun a month ago to log back into RIFT for the first time in 4 years to find all my Dimensions still there mostly as I left them (evidently the way a few items work had changed, which altered the appearance of a few slightly). Thought I had only had 11 active Dimensions. Turns out I had 13. One of them even had more likes than I remember it having at the time I stopped playing so I know that other players had continued to visit it during my absence. I had a full town in one Dimension, a recreation of Stormwind Park District in another, a massive water slide and picnic area in a third, etc.

13 housing locations for a single player on a single account because they are instanced. They only consume server resources when a player enters so they are a lot more efficient in that respect. None of those Dimensions I have prevented other players from getting their own Dimensions. I haven't even mentioned that RIFT allows placement and rotation of items on every axis not to mention items can be resized.

It's a real shame that a rather mediocre game like RIFT (wasn't really a bad game, it just wasn't good) allows that for their players when SE won't. Not can't but won't. It is a design decision they made and it's failing to serve the player base adequately.

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I have been saying for two years they should introduce such a system, but I know it from the Kitely virtual worlds [I used to be a Second Life/Kitely resident before I got into MMOs proper, so I know exactly what kind of system you're talking about.] Honestly, they could even keep the ward system and instead shard it, so that the neighborhood only becomes active when someone enters it. All of the locations/data for the objects could be stored in a database the way a forum is, connected to the player IDs of the people that own homes on a particular shard so that the right instance loads when that player enters.

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Originally Posted by DragoAskani

Actually they should both be banned/suspended. The auto clicker and the one taking advantage of them. They are both in the wrong.

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I can understand how you'd feel someone taking advantage of anothers naivety or scamming someone would be worthy of punishment, but how is targeting already dishonest people into not getting their desired outcome from "cheating" worth that?

They wouldn't be "at risk" if they weren't already cheating, and they cannot report people for the "scam" since it wouldn't work on anyone who wasn't cheating unless they were blindly hammering buttons and controls while wandering around the housing district.

It isn't admirable, especially if done exclusively to make money off others who are cheating by moving houses constantly and then scooping up botter gil. But it's not exploiting any designed in game mechanic or misrepresenting anything to other players. The only "exploit" is of a 3rd party system that is explicitly prohibited to use, so by all rules and terms of service there is no reason to punish someone who does it.

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Originally Posted by DragoAskani

Right because the "normal" player put a vendor full of cheap merchandise for millions of gil conveniently where the botter was is purely accidental. If you believe that I have a lovely bridge I would like to sell you.

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It doesn't matter what I believe. It's not against the rules to sell items. The devs aren't going to punish players who operate as if everyone else is following the rules and who aren't breaking any rules themselves.

Botting and sharing your account are forbidden so that any disputes will be resolved under the assumption that the player character was controlled by the player. There is no ambiguity or nuance in this matter. A bot program doesn't make other people liable for its mistakes.

I might put a retainer there too lol if I saw there were still people clicking on the placard after having bought a plot.
I wouldn't relocate just to do that, but I wouldn't feel sorry for the auto clickers at all.

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Originally Posted by DragoAskani

Right because the "normal" player put a vendor full of cheap merchandise for millions of gil conveniently where the botter was is purely accidental. If you believe that I have a lovely bridge I would like to sell you.

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In a normal scenario, the bot doesn't exist and if the player wants to put the vendor full of merchandise for millions of gils, then they are free to do so.

There's nothing against TOS to put your vendor in a specific spot or selling overpriced items.
That the bot exist or not is not the question, it should be straight up out of the equation.

If someone buys an overpriced item on accident, that's their responsibility.
If someone uses a bot against TOS, that's their responsibility.

You don't call the police when you "accidentally" bought a sandwich for 20$ and are refused any refund.

Can a cat scratch another cat?

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Originally Posted by DragoAskani

Actually they should both be banned/suspended. The auto clicker and the one taking advantage of them. They are both in the wrong.

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Show me the rule where a player is not allowed to post an Animal Hide for 999M gil and have to conform to community predetermined prices.

Don't look for it. There isn't.

You are free to post any item for whatever price you want. If it's overpriced it won't sell. People will decide not to click the 3 times required to buy it.

Unless you are cheating. In which case you decided to trust the decision making for clicking to a 3rd party program.

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Originally Posted by DragoAskani

Right because the "normal" player put a vendor full of cheap merchandise for millions of gil conveniently where the botter was is purely accidental. If you believe that I have a lovely bridge I would like to sell you.

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Again who decided those items are cheap? There is no rule that says people should stick to community established prices.

You know what there is a rule for?

Using 3rd party programs that give people an unfair advantage over others. There is even a line specifically mentioning programs that allow you to perform tasks while you are not there.

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Third-party programs and tools that permit automated or "absentee" play are prohibited.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Show me the rule were a player is not allowed to post an Animal Hide for 999M gil and have to conform to community predetermined prices.

Don't look for it. There isn't.

You are free to post any item for whatever price you want. If it's overpriced it won't sell. People will decide not to click the 3 times required to buy it.

Unless you are cheating. In which case you decided to trust the decision making for clicking to a 3rd party program.

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Would think it falls under profiteering off other players cheating. That is a thing you know, and this could fall under such a scope when its clearly done with clearly malicious intent. When they should have reported the cheater. So no, they are both in the wrong. You will not change my mind.

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Originally Posted by DragoAskani

Would think it falls under profiteering off other players cheating.

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You'd think, but you'd be wrong. There is no such rule. The closest there is is this rule:

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Fraud occurs most often as a result of breaching in-game agreements between players regarding trading, loot, or betting.

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In this situation there is no fraud since there is no breaching of in-game agreements. Both players agreed to the trade and price of the item. The auto clicker agreed when asked "Purchase Coke for 1 million gil?" and clicked "Yes"

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

You don't call the police when you "accidentally" bought a sandwich for 20$ and are refused any refund.

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It's really sad that we have to resort to this level of analogy and some people still don't get it. Though truth be told, those people probably WOULD throw a tantrum in the store and call the police because they didn't get a refund.

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Originally Posted by DragoAskani

Would think it falls under profiteering off other players cheating. That is a thing you know, and this could fall under such a scope when its clearly done with clearly malicious intent. When they should have reported the cheater. So no, they are both in the wrong. You will not change my mind.

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There IS a malicious intend.
But that "exploit" is only possible if someone is using a bot.

This bot shouldn't exist and therefore shouldn't be taken in account. The rule always has been "use it at your own risks".
If you remove the bot then there is no exploit, no reason for the GM to ban the one who acquired the gils.

Imagine you're driving. You don't give priority to someone and you crash (and survive unscathed, few).
Turns out the other driver involved was driving triple the speed limit and you couldn't possibly know he was coming at full speed. Is he able to say that it's also your fault for not giving them the priority, even if you actually saw them?

Imagine feeling bad for auto clickers

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

The rule always has been "use it at your own risks".

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Nope the rule has always been don't use them because they are prohibited.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Nope the rule has always been don't use them because they are prohibited.

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Oh yes, the rule from TOS is "don't use them"
But the rules from the creator of the bot to the user is "Use it at your own risks".

Should've been a bit more precise about that. But in any cases, the bot shouldn't be taken in account since it's against TOS, the user had full control over his character actions.

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Originally Posted by Chekopacheko

Imagine feeling bad for auto clickers

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Lots of special cuddle snowflakes :p

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Originally Posted by DragoAskani

Would think it falls under profiteering off other players cheating. That is a thing you know, and this could fall under such a scope when its clearly done with clearly malicious intent. When they should have reported the cheater. So no, they are both in the wrong. You will not change my mind.

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How can you be certain that they didn't report the cheater? :rolleyes: