Those midcore statics you're referring to weren't truly blind on day 1. They had hundreds of hours of previous experience with the game's mechanics from prior Savage and EX to make it easier to figure out what to do. They would only need to stop to figure out mechanics that never been used in any fights before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiros
Those just starting the game in the past couple of weeks don't have those hundreds of hours of experience with this game. Every single mechanic was new to them. They were truly blind.
If you've never played another MMO before and boosted to max level, do you think you'd clear their hardest content that quickly being completely blind to how that game's mechanics works with a group of players similarly blind?
Probably shouldn't laugh things off until you've done the equivalent in WoW yourself (assuming you've never played WoW before).
Upcoming wipe/drama fest 8/13/2021
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08-17-2021, 08:18 PMJojoya
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08-17-2021, 09:28 PMShieldbaby
As someone who came from WoW into FFXIV and now plays both, I'm actually really excited for this. I haven't seen any ill will from Max so far. In the videos they put a banner that asks people not to backseat because they want to suffer. lol
Seeing enthusiasm about end game progression content often inspires me to try it. I've never been a big hardcore raider in WoW, I'm a very casual player who will do organized group content on the side. This feels like home for me right now and I hope this competitive scene continues to grow over here. I believe that's done wonders for the raids in WoW, which, at this point, is all the game has going for it IMO.
So long as Yoshi P and the developers don't decided to turn their focus solely on this group of people and make the same mistake as the WoW developers, I see no harm here.
Also, yeah, they boosted. They're challenge-seekers, not story watchers. And like Max said, you can replay things with NG+.
Would I boost? Heaven's no. I'm here for the adventure and I'd have no idea what I was doing. But I see no harm in people boosting and enjoying challenging end game content exclusively, so long as they don't try to blame their failures on the game.
Quinrat came here with all intent to take a dump on the game. That was his entire plan. FFXIV got popular among streamers, he made it his focus to be the counter-culture in the discussion, because it'll save face. He wasn't even really a WoW player until Legion, he's not a big MMO guy. He's a ARPG guy. He made his name in Diablo. So take his opinions with a grain of salt. He knew this wasn't the game for him before even trying it.
Also, yeah, WoW has a big toxic base that's sadly starting to seep into this game. There was a day in Limsa where I saw nothing but US politics discussed and it was worrisome. But it only lasted for a day and I haven't seen it since. So I have a lot of faith in this game's moderation. Another reason why I like it over here more. But ignore those bitter people, too. They're angry at everything and they're loud about it. It doesn't matter where people are having fun, be it WoW or FFXIV, they will do their best to impede it.
But go Limit! I hope we get a savage race with Endwalker. :D -
08-17-2021, 09:41 PMJojoyaI'm another former WoW player. Starting playing here when HW came out and gave up WoW for good at the end of Legion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shieldbaby
I get the bitterness. Players had years of time (and subscription fees) invested in WoW and felt betrayed by the changes that turned it into what it's become. It can take some time to put it in the past.
Be welcoming and understanding when you can. The friendlier the community is, the sooner they'll be able to relax and settle into this game (if it's the type of game they enjoy - it absolutely will not be right for everyone). There's always going to be those toxic few but as others have pointed out, it has nothing to do with the games they've played and everything to do with their personality. Don't try to make it some sort of WoW player vs FFXIV player drama. -
08-17-2021, 09:57 PMShieldbabyMy apologies! That wasn't my intention here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
I was trying to state what you did, but maybe I did so poorly. Toxicity isn't exclusive to WoW, but the people we're seeing in these streams and such are also a problem in that game. They don't generally like WoW either, they're just there and we'll probably see some come here, but it seems like their prerogative is to rage at anyone who is having a good time, regardless of where it is. I'm just happy it's moderated here.
This community feels so much safer and welcoming because of that moderation. But I love connecting with people who came from WoW, too. We have things and common and it makes this world feel a little more familiar. I still happily play both games, I just play this one more right now.
I guess I just got long-winded about my contribution. I do that sometimes. I wasn't trying to make it "WoW vs FFXIV" (other than the difference in moderation, I suppose). Overall I was trying to make a positive post. I love seeing these world first raiders getting into this game's content. :) -
08-17-2021, 10:00 PMLarirawielThose (Ex-)Wow players need time. They played WoW for years and they propably can not drop their toxicity immediately only because they started a different game. Their behavior will change over time if they like FF14.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shieldbaby
I for myself had luck and played on a small pve server so i never faced massive toxicity in WoW.
Cheers -
08-17-2021, 10:26 PMHyrist
So, they're progging through the content, Blind, with their own group, and they're touching on Hard Trials and Extremes before doing major Savage raiding?
Sounds like their investing all the time they need to learn the mechanics of Raiding at least, so no issues there - I'll never listen to their opinions on the story as they sequence broke and it won't really apply to a first-timer's experience. However, the fact that one of them is wanting to go back and enjoy the story is a good thing! New Game + Enables this quite well and they won't have to deal with leveling grind and they can take a break and raid in between so less worry about them burning out on the story too badly.
Looks like they're making the best of what could have been a potentially very bad call, which is a net positive. I'm not keen on third party raid tools in this game and never will be - (I think of them like Tool Assisted Speed-runs - they're amazing to see what the potential performance can be with the help of outside devices but it should never be considered on the same competitive field as playing vanilla. ) But I don't see it being harmful unless they use it to judge others. It's just simply not for me: You simply don't play the same way when you can see real-time, detailed feedback at how well or poorly you're doing or have automated call-outs to certain mechanics. It changes your instincts and you adapt differently. It may come at the cost of my performance, but I prefer to adapt more naturally - at least I know those improvements are coming from me.
That said, I don't judge others for using what tools they can find to improve their experience.
So no, in my opinion, they did boosting right and did the least harm to their overall experience. Though they did not take the gradual road, their pitfalls and discoveries will be of their own and I think this will be quite a unique perspective on how progression can be done with set raidgroups looking to join FFXIV. Good luck to them and I hope they enjoy the game. Maybe some more of them will go back with New Game + and explore the larger selling point as well. But time will tell there. -
08-18-2021, 12:22 AMPuremallace
These streams have been extremely interesting. I never realized when playing WoW how dependent people were on addons or raid leaders to instruct people. The WoW raiders are being very reactionary and approaching the raids very differently then I expected. Most FF14 players I have seen are used to the personal responsibility and needing very little input on where to be and at what time.
Also this strange time thing they are obsessed with is odd to FF14 players. 7-10min fights are just a thing that happen here and only happen in WoW when the fights are gear gated or have strange intermissions. I guess this is a consequence of boosting so they never got acclimated to how the raids work here. I think they are also forgetting these only release 4 at a time every 4-6 months. -
08-18-2021, 10:42 PMAssirraWhat in the world does WoW have to do with US politics? I swear some people go "oh bad thing on internet, those darn wow players!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Shieldbaby
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08-19-2021, 12:23 AMJojoyaMy apologies! Not trying to accuse you of doing it, I should have worded it better. It was a request for the community as a whole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shieldbaby
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08-19-2021, 01:12 AMMackallan
I've come from World of Warcraft and I joined my friend in FFXIV who tried to get me into it earlier and kept playing since 2014. Yes, I'm a raider and icy-veins follower myself. But I've taken it a notch down and love the story and how I am the center of attraction in story. I am still going to daily raids as I progress through expansions and do plan on raiding at the highest level eventually. For now though, I'm chilling and enjoying Eorzea.
You also have to know that you cannot offend a WoW player. But definitely surprise them with helpfulness and kindness. My connection gave up in a trial and it took me good 6 mins to get back on - the team waited for me and was all cheerful about it. I've not experienced this before. So stop worrying about who comes in, that's not in your control. How you treat people who come in, is. -
08-19-2021, 06:07 AMAwfulNo the default UI in both games are garbo, at least WoW tells you how much Crit you have like 20-30% and % mastery etc, FF XIV goes "you have 3800 crit yep" but how much crit is that? What does 3000 Direct Hit equal? I'm 3rd on threat am I doing good? Am I over healing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Imora
There were talks of custom UIs coming in HW and never came so people make their own which is what Limit Max did I don't see an issue in this, they still have to learn the fights and prog in their own way so how dare they get carried by their weak auras and raid addons curse you DBM I can't enjoy another raid in peace! -
08-19-2021, 08:17 AMSleepyNeko
I think its fine to use the plugins they want to make the game easier for themselves, but to stream and promote ToS breaking plugins is just asking for SE to step in.
Just keep it to yourself.
And for those people that thinks buff timers are not an advantage is clearly using it themselves or never do hard content on min ilevel. Anything that reduces the amount of raid callouts you need to personally make is freeing your brain to do other activities. -
08-19-2021, 09:02 AMEquitable_Remedy
There will be drama!
No one cares.
I want there to be drama! -
08-19-2021, 10:41 AMMoofiaBossVal
From his twitlonger, it seems like he'd probably have more fun playing a game with challenging fights, like Dark Souls, or Nioh, or Cuphead, or Hollow Knight. But if he wants challenging co-op PvE content then yeah I guess there isn't really anything except than MMO raiding.
He is right that FFXIV fans became hostile to WoW streamers in recent months, probably because they feel threatened by a WoW streamer saying to their audience that they don't like FFXIV. It's okay for someone to not like something you like. -
08-19-2021, 05:44 PMkenventa
I recently came back to FFXIV after a long hiatus and instead of catching up in game, I've been totally distracted by their raid. ITS SO FUN! Just hope they keep down a notch on discussing addons on stream. Its one thing to use it (which SE has addressed several times) but its another to discuss/promote addons which could make new players or even some vets think the game is incomplete without them.
I think they know the risk but it would be really unfortunate if one of them gets banned in the middle of their progression. -
08-19-2021, 06:35 PMTTiscancerPeople have been streaming with ToS breaking plugins for years. I don't know how it is so hard to understand that as long as you don't bully others, SE does not care.Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepyNeko
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08-19-2021, 10:06 PMFtailQuote:
Originally Posted by Snorky
Just be careful not to mention anything in group chat about "annoying" raise macros. Personally, I use one as well and it's like. "Raising <t>" and that's it. I personally think it's annoying when someone has a raise macro that's a paragraph long and then has sound effects attached.
I learned to keep my mouth shut ever since I was kicked first day of the last Nier raid for saying, "You really don't need a sound effect attached to your raise macro it's obnoxious." One of the players told me to "stop whining like a B-word and continue healing". I reported him, and didn't respond to that comment. I was kicked shortly after the first boss. -
08-19-2021, 10:06 PMHyristA lot of that isn't really needed to be known in this game, to be absolutely blunt about it. You can literally eyeball over-healing and other such glaring performance trip ups. The intricacies of Crit, Direct Hit/etc are not needed unless you are purposefully adding challenge to yourself or squeezing out every possible edge you can get. To most players, even most raiders, making sure you're at the appropriate or above ilvl for the content is enough. It's only in optimization, stat racing on the logs website, or going world first that you have to concern yourself with those extra stats. This is why I equate the use of UI tools to that of Speedrunning - because it's effectively the same level of competition and intensity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Awful
You're trying to do something above and beyond - FFXIV is far easier when it comes to its performance limits on stats and such. Knowing all that detailed information is great, but you flatly don't need it. A lot can be discovered and refined through trial and error, and that's part of the fun for the game for many people. SE knows that and keeps these stats obtuse for that reason. Hard to call it garbo when it's done by intention.
Anyways, as everyone says. It's an option. This game is hardly competitive in any way that matters. If customizing a UI helps a player enjoy the game more then absolutely go for it. But the game provides more than enough information for most players - especially those who've had years to acclimate to it. The game is just that forgiving. -
08-19-2021, 10:16 PMSnorkyYou said it better than I did, I never saw it before so it was a shock to me to have my character name pop up in chat saying don't you dare die as I am laying on the floor dead. I don't care what other people use as long as they are not trying to shame you in front of other people to me that crosses the line into bullying. Also it's against ToS to harrass other people by berating them about how much dps or healing or aggro they hold. I feel that we have crossed over into territory where we have a lot of players who come from another game where it's the norm to act that way. They are in shock because they can not get away with it here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftail
I'm going to leave this link here
https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...6&id=5382&la=1 -
08-20-2021, 05:58 AMRyuDragnier
The best raise macro I have is simple, and doesn't feel like shaming too much.
"Hey <t>, you've been working hard. You deserve a Raise!" -
08-20-2021, 07:21 AMForteNightshadeSpeed and optimization aren't necessarily the same intensity. Far from it, in fact. You can farm logs without even being in a committed static whereas speed demands min/maxing down to the very crit chance. They target two different goals much in the same way World Racing does. Hence why you can be a fantastic prog player but an average parser/farm and vice versa. Of course there is always cross over in this field. But you shouldn't equate speedrunning to optimization. At least when it comes to logs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrist
I disagree. The lack of information is never a good thing. It being designed by intent doesn't make it any less a poor decision, especially when the cited excuse for keeping them vague is, "some players like to figure it the mystery!" It's complete nonsense. They keep it vague to give the illusion sub stats have greater significance than they actually do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrist
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08-20-2021, 09:35 AMNaoki34
Source : Twitter ? The trash of the Internet...
As the potato Wilford says, let the kids have fun.
In general, the problems taking place in dungeon, raid, primal, etc.
It stays in the instance, once out, it becomes a kind of memory soon to be forgotten with the help of the too small blacklist.
No need to make a drama out of it, it's not interesting.
I already had cases where all the members of my instance wanted to kill me with a healer grip during a Delubrum Reginae for a doubtful reason.
I made a series of ban and at the next instance, everything was fine. That's how it is. No need to worry any more.