Can we get normal manly males ?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Japan has pretty varied tastes where men are concerned, especially when we're talking videogame characters.

This is also the section of the forum for English speakers to post on, so naturally requests are going to come from the perspective of Western players more often than not. A region of the world where FFXIV enjoys significant and ever growing success.

With that in mind, I think it's fine for this sort of request to be put forward.

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Oh yeah, in terms of what they're actually asking for I fully agree. I think conventional would've been a better term to use than normal, because what's normal for one person isn't for another person, BUT conventional stays generally the same across the board.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Oh yeah, in terms of what they're actually asking for I fully agree. I think conventional would've been a better term to use than normal, because what's normal for one person isn't for another person, BUT conventional stays generally the same across the board.

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Plus with "normal" it might imply that the alternatives are "abnormal", a term commonly associated with negatives. With "conventional", the alternatives would be "unconventional", which is not really associated with negatives.

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

Snippity

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I'm back!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E42FefyX...jpg&name=large

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Originally Posted by Theodric

With that in mind, I think it's fine for this sort of request to be put forward.

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Agreed. I also think it's fine for SE to do nothing with it.

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Originally Posted by Fland

Plus with "normal" it might imply that the alternatives are "abnormal", a term commonly associated with negatives. With "conventional", the alternatives would be "unconventional", which is not really associated with negatives.

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It would probably shock you.. but there are actually negative things out there in the world. It isn't all sunshine and rainbows, that's not how the world works.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

I'm back!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E42FefyX...jpg&name=large

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https://en.meming.world/images/en/th..._screaming.jpg
okay okay i‘m sorry i was in the wrongs!

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

It would probably shock you.. but there are actually negative things out there in the world. It isn't all sunshine and rainbows, that's not how the world works.

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Sure, but the OP started their post with disclaimer that they "don't want to create polemic", so I'd hazard he did not intend to imply that the alternatives to what he consider "normal" are negatives. Hence the better use of the term "conventional".

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Originally Posted by Fland

Sure, but the OP started their post with disclaimer that they "don't want to create polemic", so I'd hazard he did not intend to imply that the alternatives to what he consider "normal" are negatives. Hence the better use of the term "conventional".

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But that's the thing. The people that use the word normal are not trying to start any polemic, they are speaking proper english. It's the people that don't feel normal that start the polemic and try to vilify words. If you don't feel normal that's on you, not on a word or the world.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

I'm back!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E42FefyX...jpg&name=large

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https://media.giphy.com/media/NEvPzZ8bd1V4Y/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

I'm back!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E42FefyX...jpg&name=large

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Now this is the very picture of masculinity we all desire.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

But that's the thing. The people that use the word normal are not trying to start any polemic, they are speaking proper english. It's the people that don't feel normal that start the polemic and try to vilify words. If you don't feel normal that's on you, not on a word or the world.

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Nobody says they don't feel "normal".
I'm merely suggesting a different use of word since what is considered normal is different with each person. So depends on who you ask, we already have a "normal" manly male in this game.

I don't have any interest in defining normal or abnormal or convential or unconventional. I just want a sick fade and some more guy options. The pink catgirls in limsa already seem to have plenty of options, I just want to have as many options without resorting to pink catgirl.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

I'm back!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E42FefyX...jpg&name=large

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Dynamite! xD

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Originally Posted by van_arn

I don't have any interest in defining normal or abnormal or convential or unconventional. I just want a sick fade and some more guy options. The pink catgirls in limsa already seem to have plenty of options, I just want to have as many options without resorting to pink catgirl.

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Unfortunately the likelihood of male characters getting even close to the amount of their own masculine customization as catgirls have to feminine ones are probably beyond low. Yoshi p plays a female lala lmao.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Unfortunately the likelihood of male characters getting even close to the amount of their own masculine customization as catgirls have to feminine ones are probably beyond low. Yoshi p plays a female lala lmao.

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Oh for sure, but that's just the ideal. A few more options would still be nice.

My impression is that if people are persistent, polite and vocal then the request will likely be fulfilled at some point. Stubble for Midlanders at the very least is on Yoshi-P's radar since he has mentioned it in a number of interviews which is a step in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Perhaps it is because the Japanese concept of 'masculine' doesn't involve facial hair or most of the other stereotypes defined under the term "manly" in the West?

Yeah, that would be it.

Here's a clue: https://jpninfo.com/102436

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Despite the fact that scruffy middle aged men characters are staple to most japanese media (TV drama, manga/anime, games)? Even newer FF games start to go with this aesthetic (our own derplander, older noctis from 15, older Clive from 16). ShB WoL, with his glorious stubble, is also very popular within the Japanese community. I've seen more ShB WoL fanarts from jp community, than the west community (which seems to like miqote WoL more).

My biggest issue is with how facial hair is handled. I would love if they would divorce it from the face type and instead created a separate facial hair selection. It would also be nice if they made every facial hair option available to everyone. They could then also add new facial hair options like they do with hairstyles.

Also, Highlanders need eyebrows. I find it hard to believe that every single highlander in every part of the world shaves their eyebrows, including the ones in Norvrandt. Makes them look too Neanderthal unless you use the face paint for fake eyebrows.

Finally, body hair. It is completely unbelievable that every single male character everywhere constantly shaves and waxes their bodies.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

My impression is that if people are persistent, polite and vocal then the request will likely be fulfilled at some point. Stubble for Midlanders at the very least is on Yoshi-P's radar since he has mentioned it in a number of interviews which is a step in the right direction.

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I don't know about that. People were spamming them all over for the 2b butt thing, and that got fixed right away. Male viera was constantly spammed for going on two years, and that is getting fulfilled now, even though it was supposedly impossible at this time.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I don't know about that. People were spamming them all over for the 2b butt thing, and that got fixed right away. Male viera was constantly spammed for going on two years, and that is getting fulfilled now, even though it was supposedly impossible at this time.

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That's a weird pattern. People unable to control themselves shrieking relentlessly about their..."fantasy" fulfillment and SE caves. Not a good look.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I don't know about that. People were spamming them all over for the 2b butt thing, and that got fixed right away. Male viera was constantly spammed for going on two years, and that is getting fulfilled now, even though it was supposedly impossible at this time.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

That's a weird pattern. People unable to control themselves shrieking relentlessly about their..."fantasy" fulfillment and SE caves. Not a good look.

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It was a character customization (larger rears) that had been asked for for a long time, basically since ARR began. This was SE's way of giving it to the players, and since then they have said that they plan to experiment with this sort of thing in the future since it went over pretty well. But yeah, when it was "nerfed" people were justifiably annoyed. Sure, I don't really have a horse in that particular race, but I understood. It was also supposedly not an intended consequence of the patch. The 2B outfit had some issues to begin with with the leg clipping through the leggings and abnormal colors in some places. It was probably easier to fix a couple of bugs than provide a whole new race or brand new customizations in the character creator.

Give us a chest piece that makes everyone look like they walked straight out of Android saga DBZ. Everyone was yoked af during that arc, especially Tien and his world-ending shoulders lmao.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It was a character customization (larger rears) that had been asked for for a long time, basically since ARR began. This was SE's way of giving it to the players, and since then they have said that they plan to experiment with this sort of thing in the future since it went over pretty well. But yeah, when it was "nerfed" people were justifiably annoyed. Sure, I don't really have a horse in that particular race, but I understood. It was also supposedly not an intended consequence of the patch. The 2B outfit had some issues to begin with with the leg clipping through the leggings and abnormal colors in some places. It was probably easier to fix a couple of bugs than provide a whole new race or brand new customizations in the character creator.

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It's more so that the 2b "pants" exist in the first place. Its blatant and in my face, any player that uses them for glam immediately goes into the trash bin in my judgement.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

It's more so that the 2b "pants" exist in the first place. Its blatant and in my face, any player that uses them for glam immediately goes into the trash bin in my judgement.

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I mean, you aren't the best judge of character to begin with.

The title of this thread hurts my feelings honestly. I also disagree that there aren't masculine options, but that can be in the eye of the beholder I suppose.

However, I do hope we get more customization options for midlanders, or as the OP calls them lowlanders. More variety for everyone is always a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I mean, you aren't the best judge of character to begin with.

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Maybe I am, maybe I am not. However, I am a good judge on glamour and any female glamour that incorporates 2b pants is subpar, and any male glamour that incorporates them is both subpar and drops the manliness to near zero.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Maybe I am, maybe I am not. However, I am a good judge on glamour and any female glamour that incorporates 2b pants is subpar, and any male glamour that incorporates them is both subpar and drops the manliness to near zero.

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Depends on the glamour, I think 2b bottoms can be utilized for certain themed glamours, but, yeah, most glamours I see with them are just any random top with 2b bottoms just because of the butt. Most male characters I see wearing 2b bottoms are doing it as a joke though. I think it being "unmanly" or whatever is the point. :p

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

It's more so that the 2b "pants" exist in the first place. Its blatant and in my face, any player that uses them for glam immediately goes into the trash bin in my judgement.

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Even if I'm just using them because they're nice when paired with a decent dress?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eex2cU7WAAAONRW.jpg

As a Midlander, I felt all the machismo in my mustache, but then I shaved it off because everyone said I looked like a 80's porn director.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

As a Midlander, I felt all the machismo in my mustache, but then I shaved it off because everyone said I looked like a 80's porn director.

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Lmao!!! xD

"nice" guy spotted

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

That's a weird pattern. People unable to control themselves shrieking relentlessly about their..."fantasy" fulfillment and SE caves. Not a good look.

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I pray that one day my constant outcries of us getting a male equivalent glam coffer to the 2b one are heard by SE and they pander to me like they do the rest of the community :D

+1 for Beards, thicker eyebrows & stubble options for male characters

More hairstyle variety
long hair
elaborate hair
short hair
sideswept Viera hair for female Miqo'te
- less anime protagonist hair

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

I'm back!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E42FefyX...jpg&name=large

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They say this cat BaconBits is a bad mother...
(Shut your mouth)
I'm talkin' 'bout BaconBits
(Then we can dig it)
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((You better post that screenshot in the Show Your Lalafell thread, BB. It rates 5 stars.))
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Anywho, I definitely get what the OP wants. FFXIV should have more options on the masculine side of the spectrum. By that, I mean things which Western players recognize as masculine.

I have no illusions this will be done by the time Edgewalker is released but I do feel the game needs an update to its character models and customization options.

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Originally Posted by Voidedge_Ragna

Lets get ready for the screechers!

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I mean....
Try asking for more feminine options in other games and see how people react.

Every time I try and ask for it 99.9% of the comments are having a mental breakdown and accusing me of being a horny alt-righter...
Even just something as simple as asking for feminine fashion options gets people to jump to and start arguing about Tera styled armor even if I very specifically go out of my way to clarify that I am not talking about that.

And it definitely does seem to be more generally accepted to basically shit on and trash feminine characters than it is to even so much as ask for more feminine options.
Shitting on feminine characters and femininity in most places turns into a circlejerk while asking for it gets you mocked and stereotyped.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

It's more so that the 2b "pants" exist in the first place. Its blatant and in my face, any player that uses them for glam immediately goes into the trash bin in my judgement.

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Maybe just relax a little and let people have fun.
I really don't like '' hyper masculine characters '' at all, I honestly find them really off-putting.
The difference is that I don't feel the need to sit around shitting on or judge people for playing them or mogging their characters that way.

It kinda gets into what I said above and it's extremely tiresome.
Like no one is saying that you have to like something but this constant one-sided nature of people who dislike that stuff constantly complaining about it and throwing those complaints in other peoples faces is really annoying.
Especially when there's absolutely zero tolerance for people on the other end complaining about things they don't like and they get ridiculed and shouted down.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

That's a weird pattern. People unable to control themselves shrieking relentlessly about their..."fantasy" fulfillment and SE caves. Not a good look.

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It's a bad look that the developers listen?
Or are you just mad that they listened to people who you disagree with?
Do you not see how ridiculous that is, you seem to be a bit mad yourself that there are other people who exist and enjoy things that you don't enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Juzjuzz

For beards i have seen everything, some girls love the stubble look and some don't. For the muscle think it's the same, some like a little and others prefer the most bulcky dudes they can find. Only the extremes are rare imo and it depends on where you live and who you encounter. So no it's not only a guy obsession.

Most healer gear looks bad on a masculine male and the most masculine you go the worse it gets. A lot of tank gear looks masculine/neutral but it's really rare to see something completly weird or ugly for females or show me. When females are put 1rst the poor masculine males loose almost always xD. At least the females can look cool even if it's tomboyish, but hey i like girls with a tomboyish look so yeah ...

Same thing for the femboys, even if you don't have your dream super feminine look. You won't look ugly.

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I don't really think that is the games fault that female hardly ever look bad on any clothing like males do. Female body/form suits the most clothes out there even the masculine ones. Same cannot said about males.

I do agree that Nier raids lack masculine options but I think the tomestone is very masculine in SHB

It's not about fantasy or "normal" it's just " what i like " in the end.

The words might have been choosen badly but the message is that many guys feel like they are ignored or end with something weird.

I'll take the exemple of male au ra: why only very angry and smol eyebrows? Why always some weird thick scale beards? Why the weird body shapes?
It's even more sad when ppl who wanted daddy vieras were asking for this face with bunny ears and human-like beard : https://i.imgur.com/XZrX0BF.gif

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Originally Posted by Jin-

I don't really think that is the games fault that female hardly ever look bad on any clothing like males do. Female body/form suits the most clothes out there even the masculine ones. Same cannot said about males.

I do agree that Nier raids lack masculine options but I think the tomestone is very masculine in SHB

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Yeah it's not the games's fault if a female body fits more things.
Tometsone gear works well on guys yes but that looks great on both genders. When they make something very masculine, it doesn't look that great (and often it's just ugly) but for the feminine side they create realy cool things.

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Originally Posted by Jin-

I don't really think that is the games fault that female hardly ever look bad on any clothing like males do. Female body/form suits the most clothes out there even the masculine ones. Same cannot said about males.

I do agree that Nier raids lack masculine options but I think the tomestone is very masculine in SHB

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I don't know about that being true in a general sense. There are plenty of outfits and gear that can look much better on males, or just as good on males and females. I main males in plenty of other games, because I like the options and the look of gear on them more. My characters in The Division 1 and 2 are both males, for example. It's just that in FFXIV specifically much of the gear in general does look pretty bad on them in comparison to female variants. A lot of times in this game, there's a piece of gear that almost looks nice on males. The general male design itself in this game leaves a lot to be desired on top of that.

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Originally Posted by Juzjuzz

He really has a face that would make some wow players happy lol

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LOL, after hours with the character creator, i managed to change to an acceptable face... it was an Au Ra character ...

Although i am kind of not liking movement on humans though. Running looks good, but walking with "Skirted" armor, looks kinda whonky

I still think i would love having a full beard like Cid's

Here is a hairstyle/ facial hair request Megathread
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...al-Hair/page11

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

Here is a hairstyle/ facial hair request Megathread
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...al-Hair/page11

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Is it though? This thread has more posts even.