How does FF14 compare to WoW? (And other MMOs)

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Originally Posted by KenjoKuro

Unless I am mistaken, one very big difference between WoW and FFXIV is that WoW is much more solo friendly.

In WoW a player can solo from level 1- 60 (current level cap) and never join a group if that is their wish. Upon reaching level cap, the solo player still has a lot of activities available to them.

In FFXIV, I will apparently be forced to group for a level 15 story quest(dungeon) and then periodically after that just to reach level cap.

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You could solo it all.

You would need to find a way to get to level 80 (or level higher than the content, safest on a paladin which can heal itself as much as it needs) while in a low level area (such as by doing POTD). Then you would accumulate the gil to get level 80 gear from the market board.

Then you can select the "Undersized Party" setting to solo all of the dungeons and trials up to level 70. At level 71 you unlock a trust system that let's you do the dungeons with NPCs (and someday these may be extended to older dungeons).

Nobody bothers with this other course. They either queue for it in Duty Finder or get a friend to "solo" it for them.

It's not a problem to use Duty Finder though because you get a sprout icon, which explains to any other players that you are new so they get it.

Xeltoris

Server lag has been a major issue since 2018, Blizzard's response has been to..wait for it...blame the players.

When 5000 players tell you of problems with server lag from a dozen nations, with all kinds of systems, from high end with mega connections to lower spec systems, all of whom have the same errors, the same lag, and the same issues...they arent the ones with the problem.

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The crafting/gathering system has more monetary value due to limitation of professions.

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FF 14s crafting system is way better..I dont have to burn 300 of a material to make ONE piece of gear with the right stats. RNG when it comes to WOW crafting is a major problem..make the same item over and over and over and over...no thanks.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

So yeah, you have to "group", but at this point everyone is so much on autopilot for anything under 80 content, they might as well be AI.

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That does sound pretty good. I joined WoW at its launch, moving there from FFXI. It was FFXI that taught me to dislike forced grouping. Since then I have treated every MMO I've played as a Single Player game with optional Co-op.

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Originally Posted by Ralph2449

I personally define "forced grouping" when you are actually forced to actively deal with people(talk, explain why you play X) you dont like because it is the only way to get decent rewards...

I wouldnt really say that for WoW, your main activities would be seeing the story which is timegated at the start, then mindlessly farming world quest to get rep for factions which may or may not have anything interesting and old content.

Gear progression is gone for solo players the moment you reach 200ilvl...

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I think the closest to a 'World Quest' in FFXIV would be the 'Fates'. I think that's what they're called. I do admit I prefer them to the WoW Shadowlands World Quests.

As for gear, my Vulpera(I like small races) Shaman is ilvl 189 and I have no trouble taking down solo content. The elitists in WoW, don't exist for me as I never have to interact with them.

I will admit that one area where Blizzard really messed up is this 'Level Squish', they just did. It made a lot of older content no longer soloable and that is a big part of my decision to try out FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

You could solo it all.

You would need to find a way to get to level 80 (or level higher than the content, safest on a paladin which can heal itself as much as it needs) while in a low level area (such as by doing POTD). Then you would accumulate the gil to get level 80 gear from the market board.

Then you can select the "Undersized Party" setting to solo all of the dungeons and trials up to level 70. At level 71 you unlock a trust system that let's you do the dungeons with NPCs (and someday these may be extended to older dungeons).

Nobody bothers with this other course. They either queue for it in Duty Finder or get a friend to "solo" it for them.

It's not a problem to use Duty Finder though because you get a sprout icon, which explains to any other players that you are new so they get it.

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This is intriguing, and I would consider it an interesting challenge. Whether it is possible or not is another question.

Ah the 'Sprout Icon', I can only imagine the terror that strikes in the heart of an experienced player who joins a group only to be surrounded by 'Sprouts':D.

If you really want to solo FFXIV, then you can wait 2 expansions, use a job boost, and solo almost every content that are at least two expansions old and even some contents that are one expansion old that way, then stop and wait for another expansion, use another job boost, and repeat.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

The fact that Blizzard doesnt refund people the millions of dollars they get from unused gametime? They pay for seven days and get six. UI also note that FRF 14 doesnt shut their servers down every week. Odd, innit?



Oh you mean the toy with a 24 hour cooldown, doesnt persist through death? Or the potion that cant be bought for gold but requires grinding timewalk dungeons?

Sorry but when an MMO cant or wont manage a basic QoL like a unified time of day system, its broken. Blizzard also has a game calendar that is ALSO tied to US time....like making a calendar that shows events in local time is hard?

I hate to say this, but Blizzards favourite mantra seems to be "this cant be done". It can be done, they just WONT and they dont care.

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blizzards weekly maintenance are usually no more than an hour with maybe 5 hour maintenance for major patches and 8ish hours for expansion launches. XIVs maintenance are rarely less than four hours even for minor hotfixes, 6-8 for patches, and 24+ for expansion launches. if you're going to complain about losing an hour every week and not getting refunded less than a dime every month, I wonder what you're like on 14 maintenance days, or heaven forbid an expansion launch.


its fun to criticize other companies for what they cant vs won't do when SE has been giving those same excuses about Viera/ Hrothgar hair and helms, healing, fight design, etc.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

blizzards weekly maintenance are usually no more than an hour with maybe 5 hour maintenance for major patches and 8ish hours for expansion launches. XIVs maintenance are rarely less than four hours even for minor hotfixes, 6-8 for patches, and 24+ for expansion launches. if you're going to complain about losing an hour every week and not getting refunded less than a dime every month, I wonder what you're like on 14 maintenance days, or heaven forbid an expansion launch.

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That just comes with the genre. Every mmo has regular maintenance. I get that it can be annoying but it is necessary. It only bothered me long ago when I played in web cafés so sometimes a surprise maintenance literally ruined my night. It sucked to pay for game time at the café and find an emergency maintenance that finished long after the game time would be over (and no they wouldn't let me check if there was one unless I paid :( ). Since I got my own gaming rig it doesn't bother me much.

As for refunds, eh would be nice but at the same time I don't get my knickers in a twist over a missing a few hours at most. I just do something else.

Unless there is any applicable law, refunds can only be expected if there is any guarantee of server uptime and there is a failure in meeting that guarantee. At most, they could credit you extra playtime, but even that's up to them.

The only thing that subscription gets you is server access for a specific window of time as long as the server is up during that specified time. Of course, there is a limit to how much downtime there is before any legitimate business would compensate their customer in some way regardless of if they're required to.

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Originally Posted by KenjoKuro

Ah the 'Sprout Icon', I can only imagine the terror that strikes in the heart of an experienced player who joins a group only to be surrounded by 'Sprouts':D.

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The reason it doesn't strike terror in the heart of an experienced player is that queueing for a roulette matches the experienced player with someone who queues directly (which is almost always sprouts), so it's almost guaranteed there will be sprouts. They are used to sprouts and it's one of the design choices that makes FFXIV a nice community.

It's often said how easy this content is and that people frequently underperform in it, but this is so normalized that the experienced players expect everyone will underpeform so they don't bother being rude about it usually.

What makes it better is that one experienced player can probably do all of the work and get everyone through the dungeon successfully, so they aren't worrying that much.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It's often said how easy this content is and that people frequently underperform in it, but this is so normalized that the experienced players expect everyone will underpeform so they don't bother being rude about it usually.

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Personally I find most players are fairly okay at the game. Not bad but not extraordinary either. Just serviceable, which is fine for normal mode.

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Originally Posted by KenjoKuro

Ah the 'Sprout Icon', I can only imagine the terror that strikes in the heart of an experienced player who joins a group only to be surrounded by 'Sprouts':D.

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It only does if it's in pretty high lvl content which would mean the sprouts bought a boost from the cash shop, which can mean the player hasn't a clue how to play their class in content that demands some measure of competence. Otherwise people rarely care. It's normal to see them in low lvl content, so we just shrug it off.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The reason it doesn't strike terror in the heart of an experienced player is that queueing for a roulette matches the experienced player with someone who queues directly (which is almost always sprouts), so it's almost guaranteed there will be sprouts. They are used to sprouts and it's one of the design choices that makes FFXIV a nice community.

It's often said how easy this content is and that people frequently underperform in it, but this is so normalized that the experienced players expect everyone will underpeform so they don't bother being rude about it usually.

What makes it better is that one experienced player can probably do all of the work and get everyone through the dungeon successfully, so they aren't worrying that much.

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I must say, that sounds like a breath of fresh air compared to some MMOs I've played. From what I've seen reported in WoW, the slightest under performance is an invitation to all manner of speculation about one's character flaws.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

FF 14s crafting system is way better..I dont have to burn 300 of a material to make ONE piece of gear with the right stats. RNG when it comes to WOW crafting is a major problem..make the same item over and over and over and over...no thanks.

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The process, sure, but I get more money's worth any day.

In XIV, the market suffers from omnicrafting and the time spent in gathering/crafting. The pro is that everything is cheaply available, the con is that making profit in terms of time or the difference of buying mats has terrible return. Spending hours trying to making stacks of food and tinctures with each stack netting on average 350k (ex: dexterity @ 3k/99). Factor in the gathering node times/crafting macros and you've spent near close to 2-3hrs/stack. It's not efficient. If you buy materials, you're looking at most a 50% net profit, albeit lesser time spent due to only crafting where a single synthesis takes around 70-90s depending on your process. Omnicrafting means nothing nowadays. You're simply a crafter, competing with dozens of thousands in a now interconnected market. Anyone can do what you do and will do it at a lesser price. This is why when new crafted items are released each tier they plummet in less than a week on some worlds, and around 2 weeks in all worlds will have normalized to cheap prices while you spend hours for gathering nodes for low return. The specialization system could do better to curb this, but here we are.

Lesson ? I don't really craft anymore unless it's high value (ex weapons, glamours). I sell materials for instant and 100% profit as a result of normal gameplay (dungeons, trials, bozja, current content). As a result, I spend more time having fun than sitting around crafting for hours. The result of the current XIV system benefits buyers more than it does crafters by miles.

Well, IMO:

FFXIV:

Good/decent-ish MMORPG story-telling
Lots of content compared to WoW considering how long they’ve both been a thing
One character, multiple classes
Fun, dynamic trials/raids/etc, most of which have zero trash or filler crap.
Nicer looking character models
Golden Saucer is a big plus – Darkmoon Faire does not compare
Chocobo Racing, Triple Triad.
Class stories for professions & combat classes
Player character driven story feels more immersive
PvP feels like a joke. Very messy. Probably only makes sense to people who mostly or exclusively PvP.
Player Housing system is a mixed bag but once you have a house, it’s a pretty damned nice thing to have
Emphasis on crafting/gathering with intricate and fun rotations/gear set ups.
Battle music is pretty damned good.
Fully customizable UI and tons of customization
Emphasis on finishing older content and old content still being relevant
PoTD/HoH, areas like Eureka/Bozja are kind of cool to explore and engage with
Lots of relevance and references to all FF titles.
Can gear/do stuff at your own pace mostly.
Zones sometimes look nice but feel very shallow, lack of things to do, etc.

WoW:

Familiarity. First MMORPG, been playing it for years, know the game inside and out
Transmog windows, text boxes, etc, all feel slightly better organized but UI feels very dated
Renders old content obsolete or not worth doing, leaving a lot of empty content in an otherwise huge game
Cataclysm removed a lot of assets, added new ones, etc. Bit of a mix up there. Wasn’t like 1.0 vs ARR. Was very jarring.
New class designs always kept the game fresh. In recent years, Blizzard have gotten very lazy with this.
Too many alts. No mains. Feels superficial, shallow and unearned. The levelling experience means nothing now.
Gearing is a mixed bag per expansion. Gear sets usually range from decent looking to horrific.
Raids, imo, all feel copypasta after all of these years. Only one of them is usually relevant at any one time and everything else is ‘old’ or not worth doing
Pet Battle System is kind of fun
Lots of achievement hunting to do, lots of stuff to collect, etc – both games offer a lot of this
Professions feel pointless now – wasn’t the case before.
Removal of class quests removed a lot of immersion from the game (Legion briefly made up for this with class halls)
Lack of player housing is a joke. Garrisons are terrible.
Feel like WoW is more RP friendly because of addons and speech bubbles.
Dated game engine feels jarring sometimes.
Blizzard don’t seem to care about lore or world building any-more. Lots of retcons, rehashing, etc.
The original games don’t feel relevant any-more.
Arbitrary time-gating in current expansions to ensure sub fees roll in.
Pretty good battle-grounds/arena system. Genuinely think WoW has the best PvP system of any MMORPG of this type.
Interesting zone design from time to time.

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Good/decent-ish MMORPG story-telling

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Shadowbringers has been acclaimed as the standard of excellence in every game magazine and website, its story and execution praised extensively.

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Shadowbringers is a step above anything that has come before it. The perfect blend of captivating gameplay and a truly memorable story that rivals those heralded by fans for decades. It’s time to step out of the shadows and become what you must Final Fantasy XIV; the best MMORPG in the world.

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Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers is what MMOs should aspire to, telling a story for the ages and engaging their players with evolving mechanics. It’s an exquisite adventure that needs to be experienced.

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When the time came for the curtain call on the main scenario quest, which took nearly 80 hours of play, I was ready to stand and applaud. Storylines that have been building since A Realm Reborn are wrapped up with such grace that I have to wonder how long the writers have had their cards close to the chest. Old friends, like Thancred, are given room to reflect on their past misgivings and grow as characters. While fresh faces, like my ethereal companion, (spoiler name removed) , really stole the show, as he reminded me that the quiet after the storm should be just as cherished as the thrill of adventure. It helps that the dialogue is razor sharp and the voice acting is better than ever. Shadowbringers is my favorite storyline to be penned into a Final Fantasy game in nearly two decades. A tale of how darkness should not blindly bend the knee to light, for there is just as much beauty in a sea of stars as there is in a sunrise

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BFA and Shadowlands story have been acclaimed for...well, nothing, really.

BFA was an unmitigated disaster. After Legion, the devs, out of ideas and phoning it in, decided to go back to the old, hackneyed, done to death and by now utterly worthless faction war, which no one, save a few die hards, thinks is worth a handful of beans.

Remember those legendary artifact weapons? Flamestrike, the ancestral blade of Dath'Remar? A weapon steeped in history, tied to the legacy of one of the Blood Elves greatest heroes. A priceless, irreplaceable treasure of the Sin'Dorei?

Where is it now?

Drained of its power and tossed in a bank tab to gather dust.

Forgotten.

Let the significance of that one sink in a moment.

They had the chance to iterate on Legion, to follow on to the story, to build on what Legion left, a world in upheaval.

They FAILED.

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Originally Posted by KenjoKuro

I very recently took a break from WoW and am giving FFXIV a try.

Unless I am mistaken, one very big difference between WoW and FFXIV is that WoW is much more solo friendly.

In WoW a player can solo from level 1- 60 (current level cap) and never join a group if that is their wish. Upon reaching level cap, the solo player still has a lot of activities available to them.

In FFXIV, I will apparently be forced to group for a level 15 story quest(dungeon) and then periodically after that just to reach level cap.

I intend to give FFXIV a fair try, but forced grouping is definitely a fly in the ointment.

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It's an online multi player game after all ;-)

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Shadowbringers has been acclaimed as the standard of excellence in every game magazine and website, its story and execution praised extensively.







BFA and Shadowlands story have been acclaimed for...well, nothing, really.

BFA was an unmitigated disaster and the devs, out of ideas and phoning it in, decided to go back to the old, hackneyed, done to death and by now utterly worthless faction war, which no one save a few die hards thinks is worth a handful of beans.

Remember those legendary artifact weapons? Flamestrike, the ancestral blade of Dath'Remar? A weapon steeped in history, tied to the legacy of one of the Blood Elves greatest heroes.A priceless, irreplaceable treasure of the Sin'Dorei?

Where is it now?

Drained of its power and tossed in a bank tab to gather dust, Forgotten.

Let the significance of that one sink in a moment.

They had the chance to iterate on Legion, to follow on to the story, to build on what Legion left, a world in upheaval.

They FAILED.

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Somewhere on the way to developing an E-Sport game, Blizzard forgot how to develop an RPG.

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Originally Posted by KenjoKuro

Ah the 'Sprout Icon', I can only imagine the terror that strikes in the heart of an experienced player who joins a group only to be surrounded by 'Sprouts':D.

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The sprout icon is basically meaningless at this point. You keep it right up until the end of post-Stormblood at level 70, and (by the current pattern) will probably get raised to level 80 when the next expansion comes out.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The sprout icon is basically meaningless at this point. You keep it right up until the end of post-Stormblood at level 70, and (by the current pattern) will probably get raised to level 80 when the next expansion comes out.

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While it's possible to play for years and still be a sprout because of going through the story slowly or to be an alt character, I find it an extremely good indication of what to expect from the player. I have occasionally seen sprouts in Stormblood dungeons that don't understand stack markers. This is usually something you learn in Heavensward but it's possible to see it but not understand it earlier on. It tells me they may not be the most experienced healer, or will probably trip up on the usual mechanics that get people on their first time through that dungeon.

In fact I would argue the sprout icon doesn't last long enough into Shadowbringers content, where the mechanics can trip people up a lot. I think it should last until the current expansion's patch is complete as well so they can continue to ask questions in the Novice Network about what to do at max level.

I just consider them a sprout if they haven't been at the very end of the main story for an extended period of time because everything before that point is synced and nerfed to be a lot easier than it is at max level, where you usually need some guidance on how things like gear progression work.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Shadowbringers has been acclaimed as the standard of excellence in every game magazine and website, its story and execution praised extensively.
Remember those legendary artifact weapons? Flamestrike, the ancestral blade of Dath'Remar? A weapon steeped in history, tied to the legacy of one of the Blood Elves greatest heroes.A priceless, irreplaceable treasure of the Sin'Dorei?

Where is it now?

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It still makes me sick to remember that this happened to the Doomhammer. The freaking Doomhammer!!!

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

In fact I would argue the sprout icon doesn't last long enough into Shadowbringers content, where the mechanics can trip people up a lot. I think it should last until the current expansion's patch is complete as well so they can continue to ask questions in the Novice Network about what to do at max level.

I just consider them a sprout if they haven't been at the very end of the main story for an extended period of time because everything before that point is synced and nerfed to be a lot easier than it is at max level, where you usually need some guidance on how things like gear progression work.

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Different takes on what the sprout implies, I guess. I see it more as an indication of how generally familiar someone is with the game - by level 70 they should certainly have a good idea of how the game basically functions, even if they don't know how to perform in a particular fight, so it doesn't make sense to keep them with the same icon as someone who is level 1, fresh off the boat in their starter gear.

Perhaps it needs to be split into two icons - one for a true newbie sprout (lasting until the end of ARR perhaps) and one for "not new but still progressing".

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Originally Posted by Wolven_Essence

It still makes me sick to remember that this happened to the Doomhammer. The freaking Doomhammer!!!

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Players including me begged them for more content to properly retire them. That feedback, like all the other feedback they have been given over the years, all the details on PTR,on theory crafting...fell on deaf ears.

Blizzard does not listen and will not listen. To anyone.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Players including me begged them for more content to properly retire them. That feedback, like all the other feedback they have been given over the years, all the details on PTR,on theory crafting...fell on deaf ears.

Blizzard does not listen and will not listen. To anyone.

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The only time they listen at all if when they are losing a ton of money. Losing said money could have been avoided if they had...you know, listened.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

The only time they listen at all if when they are losing a ton of money. Losing said money could have been avoided if they had...you know, listened.

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WOD.

Karabor and Bladespire.

The flight debacle in WOD.

Lack of content and cut content.

Garrisons.

Ability pruning. (sorry abilities chainsawed...)

Legion scaling ( they only admitted it after they had been caught )

Legion legendaries and the uproar that followed.

OCE night and day issue since 2016.

Appear offline.

World mob scaling.

The MOP valor point / daily quest debacle.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

WOD.

Karabor and Bladespire.

The flight debacle in WOD.

Lack of content and cut content.

Garrisons.

Ability pruning. (sorry abilities chainsawed...)

Legion scaling ( they only admitted it after they had been caught )

Legion legendaries and the uproar that followed.

OCE night and day issue since 2016.

Appear offline.

World mob scaling.

The MOP valor point / daily quest debacle.

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That list is actually the TL/DR version. :p But yeah, they are really out of touch and have been for a long, long time.

I don't know. People keep saying so-and-so developers are out of touch, but every time someone suggests a change, you would have others who don't like that change. As someone who doesn't like many suggested changes to FFXIV, I can understand it a bit myself as I don't think the FFXIV developers are out of touch for players like me, for the most part.

Both games may make decisions that would outrage a vocal part of the community (not saying whether it's in the majority or minority), and they may reverse course some of the times, but there is a continued support for a reason. Part of it is likely because they are in touch with their existing community, and that community includes the people who would unsubscribe for a time and return when a major patch arrives.

Yeah, about the only thing that I remember us ever winning over there was the debacle over the RealID thing.

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Originally Posted by Wolven_Essence

Yeah, about the only thing that I remember us ever winning over there was the debacle over the RealID thing.

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And that was largely because someone decided to bring up a Blizzard employee's personal info using the system they created, if I remember correctly.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

And that was largely because someone decided to bring up a Blizzard employee's personal info using the system they created, if I remember correctly.

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You are in fact remembering very correctly.

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Originally Posted by Wolven_Essence

You are in fact remembering very correctly.

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Oh, good. It has been awhile. lol

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

And that was largely because someone decided to bring up a Blizzard employee's personal info using the system they created, if I remember correctly.

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Did you know that that episode is now used in privacy training?

It’s better in all areas. Although the ex WoW players do make it less friendlier and more elitist than it used to be.

Biggest problem with WoW is that the 'Everything is about Speed' crowd has taken over. It's all push push push all the time.

Do we run through some dungeons here quickly? Sure. But, what we don't have is the incessant raging I saw in WoW in the last couple expansions. Maybe at Savage and Extreme at 80 you'll see some of that here, but, that's inevitable at that particular spot.

Unlike WoW, it hasn't invaded the rest of the game, and I hope it does not. That mindset has basically ruined WoW for me. Everything is about Speed. Woe to anyone who gets in their way, and people in groups are just there to be used, taken advantage of, and otherwise ignored, because they're 'just worthless casuals anyway'. If you aren't running the 'right' class, they'll kick you. *Even in leveling content.*

Stupidity.

I'm enjoying the chill atmosphere here. We had a wipe on Midgardsormr the other night, first time, for MSQ, and it took a couple tries to work out the shield thing between us. No rage, no ragequit, we just did it again, took care of it, said GG, and went on. No muss, no fuss. Doing that in WoW would have involved people dropping/raging/ragequitting after the first wipe, unfortunately. It wasn't this way there, but, it is there a lot now.

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Originally Posted by KenjoKuro

I very recently took a break from WoW and am giving FFXIV a try.

Unless I am mistaken, one very big difference between WoW and FFXIV is that WoW is much more solo friendly.

In WoW a player can solo from level 1- 60 (current level cap) and never join a group if that is their wish. Upon reaching level cap, the solo player still has a lot of activities available to them.

In FFXIV, I will apparently be forced to group for a level 15 story quest(dungeon) and then periodically after that just to reach level cap.

I intend to give FFXIV a fair try, but forced grouping is definitely a fly in the ointment.

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If grouping for a new player was the same as it is in WoW, yes, that could be an issue.

However, as a player who came back in the last six weeks, and started over with a new character, level 1, etc, it's nothing like grouping in WoW. People are pretty chill, and unless you're in extreme/savage/ultimate content, it's likely to remain so. I've run into a wipe or two or three, occasionally, and there were no ragequits, or any raging. Some comments from experienced players would be said in the party, such as to what happened, and what to do to fix it, and we went on.

WoW was once this way as well, but the Everything is about Speed crowd has taken over. Any loss of time or efficiency is castigated at length, and any slowdown causes rage and ragequits. I have not seen this here.

If that's one of your fears about 'forced grouping' in FFXIV, put that to rest.

Oh, and welcome to FFXIV. I quit Shadowlands about mid-December, played something else over Xmas, and started back here in mid to late January after being back in here two years ago. Enjoying myself. In that two months, *not one* incident of rage or ragequit has happened to me in the 'forced' MSQ dungeons or trials, and a few other 'non-forced' dungeons. I just hit 60 last night, in The Vault. We had a death in there on the last boss, but no wipe. Healer tossed a rez, and back to work we went. No big deal.

The only time you're likely to arouse comment is if someone makes the same error repeatedly w/o any effort to try to understand or fix the problem, and someone will tell them the info they need. First time I tried Leviathan, we didn't understand the wipe mechanic. Second try, we almost got it right. Third try, we had it figured out, and we finished. Again, no raging, no ragequits. Party chat gave answers to how to fix the issue. GG, and we moved on.

I'm enjoying it greatly.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The reason it doesn't strike terror in the heart of an experienced player is that queueing for a roulette matches the experienced player with someone who queues directly (which is almost always sprouts), so it's almost guaranteed there will be sprouts. They are used to sprouts and it's one of the design choices that makes FFXIV a nice community.

It's often said how easy this content is and that people frequently underperform in it, but this is so normalized that the experienced players expect everyone will underpeform so they don't bother being rude about it usually.

What makes it better is that one experienced player can probably do all of the work and get everyone through the dungeon successfully, so they aren't worrying that much.

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Agreed. If you can dodge obvious bad, you're one up on a lot of people. I'm enjoying it greatly here in FFXIV. I'm not an 'experienced' FFXIV player, but I've dodged a lot of 'fire' or 'bad' in other MMOs, including WoW of course. The thing I note most is the absence of raging in FFXIV instances. In WoW, it's likely to be seen *even in low level content*, because there are too many tryhard wanna-be elite players who want to be prestigious, and think the way to do that is to run down other players. Unfortunately, they're attracting more like them, I think. :(

Better that they go there than here, though!

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Originally Posted by Vickii

It’s better in all areas. Although the ex WoW players do make it less friendlier and more elitist than it used to be.

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Not all of us are that bad :(

Well both games honestly have their ups and downs.

Story: When it comes down to it story is by far the most enjoyable aspect of FF XIV far and away better than wow. This comes from classes, jobs, and of course main story its a trifecta getting quests for your chosen jobs and class is absolutely fun it makes it feel like you're part of the game world. WoWs weakness is the fact that your classes dont have have any of this it's just quick and dirty main story then a reliance on someone reading thier novels to fill in vast blanks of story.

Endgame: enjoyable group content is I think in FF XIV alot more enjoyable even when grinding it doesn't feel like a second job WoWs feels like a chore from begining to end. it's also had the same "endgame" experience for three expansions in a row now a bunch of generic "world Quests" and then content that you feel you Have to do endlessly. The big raids are of course enjoyable in wow but it doesnt feel as if anything else is there for enjoyment. FF XIVs raiding is interesting and fun overall and theres always something to enjoy or try your hand at.

Crafting: Crafting in FF XIV feels more intuitive and is enjoyable as well it even has story bits during the process you literally want to craft and level crafting. WoWs weakness is glaring in this department.

Group Content/community: In WoW group content can be downright toxic I love love love talking someone into playing wow with me only for them to die early on and get treated like crap by the so call community then not want to play again. (*cough* Alliance*cough*) Not saying Horde doesn't have some players like this just seems more prevalent You can ask for help for hours and be ignored. Here the community seems more helpful all in all there's still some people that are kind of jerky but in the end the community and group content is far more enjoyable here than there. Final Fantasies weakness group content wise is it has a much more often solo content moments than WoW.

so the ratings look something akin to this..

Gameplay: Wow:Good, FFXIV:Fair

Community: WoW:Poor, FFXIV: Good

Endgame Things to do: WoW:Poor, FFXIV:Good

Endgame Raids:Wow:Good but not all that accessible for higher diffculty raids, FF XIV: Average but very Accessible.

Story Wow:Good (But huge Gaps), FF XIV (Good and very Thorough)

Crafting: WoW: Very Poor, FF XIV: Great.

Classes: WoW: Average Enjoyability, Very Poor Accessibility, FF XIV:Good A bit slow Easy Accesibility.

Personally I think WOW is designed to be more addictive and it ends up being less fun as a result. Also, it's hard to put into words and I'm sure some will disagree but the game design seems more hostile. Just moving about in the world is more difficult and takes more time.

I'm also not a big fan at how goofy WOW can be. FFXIV has some whimsical and lighthearted moments, but WOW feels like a Saturday morning cartoon at times both with their story and silly quests and NPCs. The jokes and gags in WoW are more fourth-wall breaking than in FFXIV where they still feel like part of the world for the most part.

Also the community aspect is like night and day. I've been playing MMOs for a long time and let most things roll of my back, but the amount of try-harding and just bad attitudes in WoW gets really tiresome after a while. People seem to go out of their way to be mean over there even if it hurts them too.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

It’s better in all areas. Although the ex WoW players do make it less friendlier and more elitist than it used to be.

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The one's I've met generally start off quiet to avoid the toxic behavior they're used to, but open up more as they get used to us. Usually it's funny how shocked they are with how nice/social many of us can be.

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

but WOW feels like a Saturday morning cartoon .

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Oh god why did you remind me of the unironic ending of BfA where the murdehobo player character uses the power of friendship to fire off a lazer beam towards an old god who was free of its prison therefore most powerful old god the players faced, not only that this old god was the most cunning and manipulative but hey, saturday morning children's cartoons always loved their BEAM OF FRIENDSHIP beating the bad guy xD

And all that lore within one patch

Hmm... I can't say anything about wow since I have no experience there, but in terms of combat and story I much prefer this game. I'm a fan of tab targeting, so all these action combat MMOs don't really do it for me. Where I'd say this game is lacking is in its character creator.

With all the recent notable streamers leaving wow and coming to this game, I think you may have your answer on how this game compares.