Roleplay/Partyfinder Discrepancies & Policy Enforcement by GM's

I find it sad that most of the people arguing for the GM's take on this are equating RP with ERP, as if RP without the 'E' doesn't really exist, As people have pointed out, FFXIV has a story that explores some very dark issues (trafficking, murder, torture etc), any group exploring those themes is simply being responsible by flagging themselves 18+.

The GM in question has told RPers to advertise events in /shout. Are people agreeing with them really saying they'd prefer all the adverts they don't like, for whatever reason, to be spammed in a public channel in all major cities? If we are going to 'think of the children', I'd argue that keeping those adverts in PF is by far the best option.

RP might not be your thing, it's not mine in this game, but it does keep people subbed and the devs have gone out of their way to create areas that are RP friendly, e.g. the new Snowsoak Springs area in the Firmament.
I still think the best long-term solution is to give RP it's own tab in the PF menu, that way if you won't see it unless you go looking, but if you would like to RP you'd have a dedicated space to advertise or find events.

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Originally Posted by Nakarumi

As you can see, it only describes the use of the PF as a means to find and/or create your own party. It does not state for what intent or purpose that you're allowed to form a party for, but only towards the point of finding people to join a party.
This translates into a tool intended to help find people for "whatever purpose you deem necessary".

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I wonder if that means you can report anyone who sets the ilvl to 999 or whatever, because nobody can join their party. Even if the PF appears to be for building a party for content, they aren't using the PF to make the party they are using the PF to solicit /tells.

But then that begs the question, why can you make a PF that nobody can join? It's almost like that option exists so you can put up an advertisement that won't fill with players and be taken off the board.

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Originally Posted by BunniEclair

In the case of ERP/RP venues I honestly prefer the PF method over having to see people spam more of their huge text block ads

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In my experience they spammed shout chat regardless. And at some point the dutyfinder adverts were getting ridiculous. You shouldn't need 2 advertisements for the same place/event up at the same time, let alone the 4 or 5 I'd see some days. Then you get 4 or 5 places doing the same thing competing with each other and you've got a big mess.

But the GM wasn't arguing against the spammy nature of it so that's kind've an aside.

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Originally Posted by Solarra

I find it sad that most of the people arguing for the GM's take on this are equating RP with ERP, as if RP without the 'E' doesn't really exist, As people have pointed out, FFXIV has a story that explores some very dark issues (trafficking, murder, torture etc), any group exploring those themes is simply being responsible by flagging themselves 18+.

The GM in question has told RPers to advertise events in /shout. Are people agreeing with them really saying they'd prefer all the adverts they don't like, for whatever reason, to be spammed in a public channel in all major cities? If we are going to 'think of the children', I'd argue that keeping those adverts in PF is by far the best option.

RP might not be your thing, it's not mine in this game, but it does keep people subbed and the devs have gone out of their way to create areas that are RP friendly, e.g. the new Snowsoak Springs area in the Firmament.
I still think the best long-term solution is to give RP it's own tab in the PF menu, that way if you won't see it unless you go looking, but if you would like to RP you'd have a dedicated space to advertise or find events.

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100% and RPers are one of those player groups who tend to stay subbed during content draught and also are partial to buying vanity items from the mogstation, so I see an incentive in sustaining a healthy RP community.

And if the PF is such an issue, the solution is simple and suits everybody.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I wonder if that means you can report anyone who sets the ilvl to 999 or whatever, because nobody can join their party. Even if the PF appears to be for building a party for content, they aren't using the PF to make the party they are using the PF to solicit /tells.

But then that begs the question, why can you make a PF that nobody can join? It's almost like that option exists so you can put up an advertisement that won't fill with players and be taken off the board.

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Based on the ACTIVE HELP description, this thought passed through my mind as well. This can easily be worked around in those terms but was never once mentioned in any of the screenshots I received or in any of the other reports I came across by the overseeing GM.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

In my experience they spammed shout chat regardless. And at some point the dutyfinder adverts were getting ridiculous. You shouldn't need 2 advertisements for the same place/event up at the same time, let alone the 4 or 5 I'd see some days. Then you get 4 or 5 places doing the same thing competing with each other and you've got a big mess.

But the GM wasn't arguing against the spammy nature of it so that's kind've an aside.

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But you're forgetting something. I don't advertise in cities because I advertise in pf. And I'm sure many others are the same. If we all suddenly have to shouting in limsa to advertise our venues, that's going to be a lot of shouts. not even necessarily spam, just a lot of different venues shouting. It's not a feasible option. That's obnoxious and I don't want to have to do that.

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Originally Posted by Aslae

But you're forgetting something. I don't advertise in cities because I advertise in pf. And I'm sure many others are the same. If we all suddenly have to shouting in limsa to advertise our venues, that's going to be a lot of shouts. not even necessarily spam, just a lot of different venues shouting. It's not a feasible option. That's obnoxious and I don't want to have to do that.

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... I didn't forget it? I said right there, "In my experience they used shout chat regardless". Maybe you didn't, but LOTS did.

And I didn't even say anything about removing it. Just that you don't need more than 1 advertisement up in the PF at any time other than to be desperate for attention.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

In my experience they spammed shout chat regardless. And at some point the dutyfinder adverts were getting ridiculous. You shouldn't need 2 advertisements for the same place/event up at the same time, let alone the 4 or 5 I'd see some days. Then you get 4 or 5 places doing the same thing competing with each other and you've got a big mess.

But the GM wasn't arguing against the spammy nature of it so that's kind've an aside.

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You had to actively look in the "Other" tab to even see them so I'm not sure how they could be considered spammy honestly. Unlike clear sellers and weird feet pic advertisements which you see, no matter what, every single day just for opening the PF. They are all right there in a big list all the time in your face.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

... I didn't forget it? I said right there, "In my experience they used shout chat regardless". Maybe you didn't, but LOTS did.

And I didn't even say anything about removing it. Just that you don't need more than 1 advertisement up in the PF at any time other than to be desperate for attention.

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I must have misunderstood what you said then. I was just saying, there will be even MORE now. But I agree, that you shouldn't need to advertise the same place more than once.

About two months ago, bored with how I was playing this game, I pulled up PF and dropped in on a NSFW venue.

I left the next morning with a new set of friends, some of the best people I've ever met in this game. I'm still paying my sub because of them.

I don't get into ERP, but I goto the various places that do. There's a whole other universe to this game which revolves around the social aspects and it's pretty amazing. Some of the most interesting housing, a whole sub economy, the various bard shows, synchronized dance groups, and countless other stuff that stretches the limited framework of the game and gives something to do for those of us who've done it all and don't care about raids. For the record, the vast majority of what you see in a place like this is the same stupidity you see at any aetheryte in any main city. You might get some tells about how cute you are or the occasional racy mistell but it's not like you're stepping onto the grounds of the Playboy Mansion in the middle of one of Heff's orgies.

Looking at PF at any given time I can see far more ads for RMT and clears, "cute feet pics," and countless other non-content things than I do for venues, and even then there's often a healthy amount of SFW venues as well as 18+ NSFW stuff.

If you were cracking down just on courtesan ads (including venues), I could see that falling under ToS, but the simple fix to mandate that they don't advertise the service openly. But to try and remove the entire scene itself from this game would being doing FF14 a severe disservice as these people provide far more value and interest than the idiots standing in Limsa trying to be funny.

Further, to suggest someone uses shout or yell is ludicrous. I can choose to not open PF, but I certainly can't choose to ignore the blaze orange text about the guy asking me to find to win a prize or the two jackholes having the same extended conversation about cooking lalafells you'll see in every Limsa on every world every goddamn hour.

If venue ads are such a nightmare, remove "Other" from the main PF display list so that I only see the RMT and feet adveristers using the main PF options on the screen and have to tab over to the "Other" to see those listings, but stop trying to muzzle the most interesting set of people this game probably has to offer.

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Originally Posted by Aslae

But you're forgetting something. I don't advertise in cities because I advertise in pf. And I'm sure many others are the same. If we all suddenly have to shouting in limsa to advertise our venues, that's going to be a lot of shouts. not even necessarily spam, just a lot of different venues shouting. It's not a feasible option. That's obnoxious and I don't want to have to do that.

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The other thing is not everyone who is socially active in this game spends their time in the city-states. I avoid Limsa like the plague; you will only see me there if there's a quest or I'm server hopping for MB prices. Feels like you hit less people doing that then having an ad up in PF which can be viewed at any time.

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Originally Posted by Solarra

I find it sad that most of the people arguing for the GM's take on this are equating RP with ERP, as if RP without the 'E' doesn't really exist, As people have pointed out, FFXIV has a story that explores some very dark issues (trafficking, murder, torture etc), any group exploring those themes is simply being responsible by flagging themselves 18+.

The GM in question has told RPers to advertise events in /shout. Are people agreeing with them really saying they'd prefer all the adverts they don't like, for whatever reason, to be spammed in a public channel in all major cities? If we are going to 'think of the children', I'd argue that keeping those adverts in PF is by far the best option.

RP might not be your thing, it's not mine in this game, but it does keep people subbed and the devs have gone out of their way to create areas that are RP friendly, e.g. the new Snowsoak Springs area in the Firmament.
I still think the best long-term solution is to give RP it's own tab in the PF menu, that way if you won't see it unless you go looking, but if you would like to RP you'd have a dedicated space to advertise or find events.

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From my own experience of visiting some of these aforementioned 18+ Venues, many of them are Nightclub themed and suggest alcohol sales which is the reason for the age they post (the consumption and sale of alcohol outside the states is 18), ERP is not openly nor actively encouraged in a large number of them and they're very much of the partying nightlife atmosphere. It has been a lifeline to a lot of people in the Pandemic, somewhere for them to go and unwind, to be in a familiar atmosphere they're used to but have not been able to do for the obvious, stuck in quarantine or lock down reasons. People have made many new friends, some have even made new relationships and that's something that should be absolutely cherished at just how much the FFXIV Nightlife RP community has helped people through such a difficult time.

Does ERP happen? Absolutely and it's something you'll never know happens unless you actively look for it.

The majority of folks that go to the 18+ Venues do so to unwind, kick back, relax and enjoy themselves in a friendly and welcoming atmosphere, the problem with going with a scorched earth policy is they're taking aim at everyone in the RP community and as another company quickly learned when they started pulling that kind of heavy handed enforcement...RP communities are the lifeblood of subscription bases.

If the tab is that much of a problem, something that can easily be turned off by switching to another tab that filters it out in PF, so I still don't get how it is, (except for the RMTers and that feetpic seller who are something that should be vigilantly removed) then a social tab is very much the way forward.

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Originally Posted by Britha

You had to actively look in the "Other" tab to even see them so I'm not sure how they could be considered spammy honestly. Unlike clear sellers and weird feet pic advertisements which you see, no matter what, every single day just for opening the PF. They are all right there in a big list all the time in your face.

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It makes it more difficult to parse through events/advertisements when there are several venues advertising the same thing at the same time. It's simply easier on the eyes and mind to see 4 event postings for 4 events rather than 12 postings for the same events where 2 places are advertising 4 times, 1 is advertising 3 times, and the last is buried somewhere in there advertising only once.

Yeah, we had that issue on aether with some places putting up like 4-5 pf's so we asked them as a community to stop. Having some level of self-regulation in the communities is helpful. But being from balmung i would see how that would be annoying for yall.

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Originally Posted by Shuhannazy

Yeah, we had that issue on aether with some places putting up like 4-5 pf's so we asked them as a community to stop. Having some level of self-regulation in the communities is helpful. But being from balmung i would see how that would be annoying for yall.

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Run sellers do this sometimes too... Yet they seem to be crackin' on happily with nary a word from the GMs.

And, of course, they use the 50/60/70 roulette option so they're always right in your face when you open the PF.

Fellowship Finder is a great idea and I was ecstatic about it when it was first announced, but as it currently functions it is not suitable for RP communities. Shouting isn't a feasible option either, I have a tab that turns off shouts that's active very often. And when I do see those shout ads, my friends and I have the connotation of the venue being 'desperate' that I wouldn't be surprised is shared by a lot of people interested in RP in the game. There's also predatory RP venues/groups that advertise in shout so often it could be considered spam that I would like to avoid being potentially associated with.

This game already suffers from a barrier of entry to get into RP, making the most easily accessible way in game to find RP venues is going to hurt it even more. Many people treat this game as a social outlet and I have spent plenty of evenings going through PF and checking out RP venues. I've made a lot of really good friends through RP. If it wasn't for the places being advertised in PF, or the ability to advertise my own coffee shop in PF, I probably wouldn't have made those friends or had some really memorable experiences in game through RP. I know many people that wouldn't be subbed right now if it wasn't for the RP community.

I really hope this is just a miscommunication/misunderstanding with one GM and not an actual stance that Square Enix will be going forward with. With COVID, the RP community has really flourished in the last year and I've loved the way I've seen RP venues develop and evolve. Square has done so much to service the RP community in the past--giving us the RP status tag for our characters and for houses, a lot of furniture that really helps with RP venue theming (stages, shop counters), performance, new areas with RP at least partially in mind (the Firmament), that making the most accessible way to learn about RP venues is really going to hurt it. Not everyone can use discord or knows where to go to find out about RP venues and events.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Run sellers do this sometimes too... Yet they seem to be crackin' on happily with nary a word from the GMs.

And, of course, they use the 50/60/70 roulette option so they're always right in your face when you open the PF.

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yeah, imagine being a gm and not seeing any of that but seeing the rp stuff AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE wow lol

I hope SE apologizes and revokes all the warnings for this. I don't know too many people that RP personally but they are actually part of the community and keep the PF alive with things to do. Maybe someday I'll be bored enough to go check a venue out or something. It's a net positive rather than having a dead party finder. Nothing makes people quit MMOs than the impression a game is dead. I'll be honest and say the Primal DC Party finder usually isnt hopping with content other than maybe Tuesdays for savage. It's sad and as a paying subscriber I cast my vote in saying the OTHER tab should be inclusive of RP postings or an RP tab should be implemented with all the affected people un-warned if they keep tabs on things like that. I would say or rather recommend if anyone has any interaction with this GM anymore to ask for arbitration with a third GM joining the conversation if possible because now there are screenshots of conflicting information with some GMs saying it is fine to use PF OTHER for this. All in a respectful manner of course.

Yes, venue owners need a channel to advertise to other players specifically. I really dont want to spam shout, i just want to tell the general population my house is available to visit. But i do have faith that S.E and by extension, Yoshi-P and the dev team will create a solution for us

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I hope SE apologizes and revokes all the warnings for this.

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SE never look back at their own choices, nor do they apologize for them. All this crap wouldn't even be an issue if account strikes from warnings weren't permanent.

What, an overly vague, broad, and subjective part of the ToS is being used to justify warnings and strike against accounts doing innocent things? I woudl ahve never imagined such a thing /sarcasm.

Maybe there should be a influx of more people "selling"contend now.... you know *cough cough* ... since that is obviously quite alright with SE.

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Originally Posted by Nightroad

Maybe there should be a influx of more people "selling"contend now.... you know *cough cough* ... since that is obviously quite alright with SE.

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"SELLING Ultimate Endgame grind, Come to best plot XYZ in ABC for Best Experience, 18+ Only"

XDXD

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Originally Posted by Nakarumi

Please, let's not stoop to a level of devolving flaw shout-outs. Stay civil, factual, and kind and you'll always maintain the upper ground. <(^_^)b

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Gonna be real, compared to what she said, I was going to post something like that but it wasn't going to be near as nice. Her post is very civil, considering the subject matter. It's like standing up to a bully. People ignore the victim until the victim slams the bully, then all of a sudden they're the monster. Nope, I won't allow that logical fallacy here. JanVanding - well said. Personally I'd of left comments from lines 5-7 out, but hey, who am I to stifle your speech.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

In my experience they spammed shout chat regardless. And at some point the dutyfinder adverts were getting ridiculous. You shouldn't need 2 advertisements for the same place/event up at the same time, let alone the 4 or 5 I'd see some days. Then you get 4 or 5 places doing the same thing competing with each other and you've got a big mess.

But the GM wasn't arguing against the spammy nature of it so that's kind've an aside.

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You do have a point about them doing it anyway. I was thinking if they shut these down, and do as the GM said, we’d be even more bombarded.

I only ever see it in the “other” tab anyway. It’s not like I’m trying to find a prog party and I have to sift through a bunch of nightclub and tavern ads to find one. As long as they are sticking to there, I don’t really see the issue, given that RP is an encouraged part of the game.

Life is miserable enough. Let the catgirls dance.

I've been roleplaying here since Stormblood. I've enjoyed time just hanging at many different clubs and venues, and worked at a venue for a bit. Honestly? It's bull what's going on. Most don't even have any ERP services.


PF is the best tool to advertise. I've met friends and just hopped around, enjoying the decorating and seeing hilarious things like a costume contest. Honestly it's disappointing this is happening - Fellowships are not at all useful and I forge they exist.

Plus, all rp ads are ALWAYS at the bottom of the content stuff. I open my PF? RMT runsellers using their stupid tricks to avoid trouble. Club has 18+ themes of alcohol, suddenly they're worse then people who are definitely demanding money.

Come on SE. This is ridiculous.

THANK YOU SQUARE!!!

I used the Party Finder to find amazing folks to play with in FCs and Statics. This GM and strange enforcement on players using the PF for recruitment, RP and other non-issues is appalling knowing that the MMO gaming community considers FFXIV a leader in this market because of how well they handle things generally. The GM's enforcement on the rules for FC recruitment and RP instead of content sales for IRL cash, is doing vastly more harm than good.

Yoshi and the rest of the FFXIV admin team, I hope you take an official stance on the subject that stands with the standard that has been fine with players and SE for so long. Do not ruin something that was never a problem in the first place.

Finally!
Even here on aether its crazy to see like 20 PF's advertising rp houses and other dumb stuff like feet pics for cash etc, honestly rp has no place in this game, it just makes everyone want to actually play the game less and less. It's annoying to see it in pf and the Other tab should definitely be removed entirely and replaced with something like the Barter or Gear/Item selling tab that way the good people who use the other tab like crafted gear/food/pot/ glamour sellers dont get lost in the shuffle with all the crappy erp posts
and honestly im fine with the content sellers, how do we know they are asking for real world money? dont get mad because what they are doing is legit and what you are doing isnt lol
hopefully yoshi p addresses this and is ruthless against erp/rp in the game and kills it for good, fingers crossed for the next live letter:o

My personal feelings on this? Just create and RP tab in PF - that'll shut up the critics and we can all play how we like. It's a simple addition and would be perfect in a hotfix update.

If, after reading the aforementioned suggestion, you still want to keep RP Venues stifled in how they can advertise, then I think we found the true villains of FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Julisia

Gonna be real, compared to what she said, I was going to post something like that but it wasn't going to be near as nice. Her post is very civil, considering the subject matter. It's like standing up to a bully. People ignore the victim until the victim slams the bully, then all of a sudden they're the monster. Nope, I won't allow that logical fallacy here. JanVanding - well said. Personally I'd of left comments from lines 5-7 out, but hey, who am I to stifle your speech.

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The troll is a troll, I will not denounce this at all and I agree with your sentiment. However, the original party never attacked any one person personally. We can defend the group and the community without degrading to using name calling to the offending party. There is no victim blaming, nor shaming, taking place here.

I don't even RP & I have to say that I strongly disagree with the ban of RP posts in PF. Banning 18+ PFs makes sense to me. Striking people who spam RP recruitment messages in PF makes sense to me. Striking people for posting in the "Other" tab of all things for a SFW non-spammy RP event?.. I'm a bit lost.

Possible solutions:
1. Add a "RP" tab to PF.
2. Stop banning players for using the "Other" tab & its intended purpose (unless I'm wrong here, someone please correct me if so).

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Originally Posted by go_erp_some_where_else

Finally!
Even here on aether its crazy to see like 20 PF's advertising rp houses and other dumb stuff like feet pics for cash etc, honestly rp has no place in this game, it just makes everyone want to actually play the game less and less. It's annoying to see it in pf and the Other tab should definitely be removed entirely and replaced with something like the Barter or Gear/Item selling tab that way the good people who use the other tab like crafted gear/food/pot/ glamour sellers dont get lost in the shuffle with all the crappy erp posts
and honestly im fine with the content sellers, how do we know they are asking for real world money? dont get mad because what they are doing is legit and what you are doing isnt lol
hopefully yoshi p addresses this and is ruthless against erp/rp in the game and kills it for good, fingers crossed for the next live letter:o

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Not every RP venue is an ERP venue (yeah I read your posting name) - so what, are they to suffer along with everyone else that is ERP venue? That is NOT the solution.

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Originally Posted by youne

Since someone did say the warnings were on multiple DCs, I'd like to know if it was the same mod. A sudden change in policy, without an official announcement beforehand, seems unlikely, especially with how widely used the PF is by RPers.

Now, I can't comment on DCs other than my own, and I'm on Elemental, but the venue ads still comply with the rules as stated by the GM. Generally, someone who runs an rp venue will have it closed when they're offline/don't want to rp, and when they do, they may list it in the pf, indicating they are looking for people to rp (content, rp is content even if it's not an official "duty") with right now. This is different from the Fellowship Finder, which is not a specific "let's do this immediately at this place" but more of a "I like this thing, who else likes this thing, maybe we'll talk sometime."

Of course, I don't know what PF listings got hit, but the way I understand venue listings, this all just seems very odd to me.

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Coming back because as far as I can tell, Elemental is completely unaffected. No English venue ads up just now, but the same amount of Japanese listings as I'd expect at this hour, and there doesn't seem to be any thread about this on the Japanese forums.
And while I know Yoshi P. is far from the sole person to have input on how this game runs, I just can't fathom cracking down on rp in general so soon after he commented in a PLL about how touched he was by users making their own summer festivals and rping at them, since they couldn't go out to real festivals due to Covid

I know different regions have different rules, but again, this is just being handled too strangely for it to be an executive decision.

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Originally Posted by Nakarumi

The troll is a troll, I will not denounce this at all and I agree with your sentiment. However, the original party never attacked any one person personally. We can defend the group and the community without degrading to using name calling to the offending party. There is no victim blaming, nor shaming, taking place here.

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He attacked an entire community - you are technically correct - he didn't attack one person.

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Originally Posted by Julisia

Not every RP venue is an ERP venue (yeah I read your posting name) - so what, are they to suffer along with everyone else that is ERP venue? That is NOT the solution.

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Ignore them, they're clearly just here to troll.

RP for me has been how I've met some of my best friends ingame, and while I've encountered questionable people as well, fact of the matter is, I would not be playing this game still through content droughts if I didn't have RP as an option. It's been a wonderful way to socialize, meet new people, and keep myself going through a world where we literally cannot socialize like we used to. I'm very disappointed in the GM actions of last night, and would like to hear Square's official stance on this.

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Originally Posted by go_erp_some_where_else

Finally!
Even here on aether its crazy to see like 20 PF's advertising rp houses and other dumb stuff like feet pics for cash etc, honestly rp has no place in this game, it just makes everyone want to actually play the game less and less. It's annoying to see it in pf and the Other tab should definitely be removed entirely and replaced with something like the Barter or Gear/Item selling tab that way the good people who use the other tab like crafted gear/food/pot/ glamour sellers dont get lost in the shuffle with all the crappy erp posts
and honestly im fine with the content sellers, how do we know they are asking for real world money? dont get mad because what they are doing is legit and what you are doing isnt lol
hopefully yoshi p addresses this and is ruthless against erp/rp in the game and kills it for good, fingers crossed for the next live letter:o

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The only reason I stay subbed is the RP element....I come for the RP and I stay for the content. My money & sub is just as valid as yours.

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Originally Posted by Aslae

Ignore them, they're clearly just here to troll.

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Obviously; Trolls should stay under a bridge - where they belong.

For what? Shafting an entire subsection of the community indiscriminately?