Revelations from Patch 5.3

I am... really not seeing this apothecary/chemist job a lot of people are EXTREMELY SURE OF.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Got a location for Granson? I can't seem to find him after finishing his questline, he's not in the Crystarium, or at least not at his usual location.

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Just east of Wright, by the large slab of rock, in front of

the grave of his wife

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Originally Posted by Jennah

And On His Actions:

However you look at things, this was not a victory. We slew hundreds of heroes from different worlds; likely leading to even greater loss of life and a much freer hand for the remaining Ascians. It's possible that was his real goal; he just wanted to make sure we were strong enough to 'kill' him (along with the very strongest of these heroes) and then make the standard Ascian escape.
Even more terrifyingly, while it seems like he didn't know the Crystal Tower could end him, it's possible he knows more than G'raha does, and that Elidibus is now in full control of the tower.
Alternatively, it's also entirely possible that Elidibus knew everything, and wanted to die - but couldn't achieve it any other way. Making things even more tragic.

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If I remember things correctly

He said he did not summon them whole, he had no need to. So they were more like shades of the WoL from different worlds and not the actual WoL themselves. That's how I understood it anyway. So we likely didn't actually slay them, more likely just an aetheric imprint or shadow of them. I could be wrong, but that is how I understood it.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

If I remember things correctly

He said he did not summon them whole, he had no need to. So they were more like shades of the WoL from different worlds and not the actual WoL themselves. That's how I understood it anyway. So we likely didn't actually slay them, more likely just an aetheric imprint or shadow of them. I could be wrong, but that is how I understood it.

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How you understand it is exactly how it was. Elidibus stated that explicitly.

The WoL's from the other shards were in fact shades. Not the actual heroes.

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

Compilation of various texts about Office of the 14th Convocation Member (and their memorial stone)

Hythlodaeus describing both the office of Azem and what their stone's "special power" is

When summoning your party members to fight the WoL, this plays across the screen at the same time

Elidibus/Warrior of Light's reaction to you summoning your partyIn the WoL fight, this plays across the screen after you throw off the chains in the RiftYour gold summoning/teleportation circle shows up again, but with Emet-Selch in the middle of it. And the WoL reacts with...Emet-Selch does his classic finger snap, and you and the rest of your party are all pulled out of the Rift to your summoning/teleportation circle. Emet-Selch walks off and does his weird back-handed wave before disappearing again.

The phrase used to describe what you do with the crystal before Emet-Selch gets summoned/teleported is the exact same phrase Hythlodaeus uses to tell you how to use the crystal, so...

Curiously, this is how Temulun, the shaman of the Mol tribe "sees" us all the way back in Stormblood.

When it comes to the memorial stone itself, the symbol on it is the alchemy/astrology symbol for the sun in real life. The Zodiac itself is all the constellations that the sun appears to travel through over the course of the year. It is a very appropriate symbol for the traveling Convocation seat to have.

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Also @Enla, thank u both so much! :)

So i really don't have much to post on the sorrows and neir... but I do have one thing to say...

it is definitely still confirmed that we are in the time bubble and in the year 1577. After fighting against sapphire and talking to Gaius, the Elezen thats with him flat out says 20 years had passed since the fall of Ala Mhigo.

The Ending Cutscene and the Future Story

I could say a lot about the main story this time, but I'd like to focus on the ending for the moment with Fandaniel and Zenos. There are things that were pointed out about Elidibus that he has basically stood against his fellow Ascians at times either by becoming hero or manipulating Heroes to prevent things from being pushed too far. However, that raise a particular question to me: Why is that necessary? If the Ascians are aware of the consequences of pushing Darkness too far with the Void of the 13th why is it necessary for Elidibus to push against his allies in such a way.

Then we witnessed Fandaniel and how gleeful he seemed to be about the Unsundered being gone. The reality might be that the Unsundered didn't truly have as much control over the Sundered Ascians as we are lead to believe and it was necessary to take specific action against them to keep them under control whether directly in or indirectly. Nabriales from a Realm Reborn also did his actions against the wishes of the Unsundered as well. It may be possible that by destroying Elidibus that we may actually have set things up to become worse. Without the power and leash that the Unsundered provided, we may be dealing with something just as dangerous but without the emotional restraints present in Emet or Elidibus. With the unsundered gone, the Scions seem to be assumed the primary threat of the Ascians may be over, but in reality, they potentially become even more dangerous.

Main Story

I didn't think they would pull the Elidibus being a primal, it was the thing that shook him to his core, after spending month's thinking he was this mastermind behind the Ascians, but was acting on his own accord.

The Emet Cameo was a nice touch for the fight, and I welcome Graha to the fold, even though we... disturbed his slumber. I honestly thought Thancred would either die or stay on the First, so I worry about Ryne since she's still a teen without a guardian. That can't be easy no matter how well of a fighter you are.

People are groaning about Zenos, I get it, but lets see where they take him. Honestly, I want the writers to make him more compelling than being a bored prince who wants to hunt the ultimate prey. They're giving us a daffy sidekick in Fandaniel so I'm willing to see where this goes. I see Fandaniel betraying Zenos, or taking over his body at some point.

I'm a little curious when Graha narrated "Final Chapter of this star" as the scene focused on Zenos and FandanLOL. Gives me the impression that either we're going to take the fight in 6.0 to them and that's the end of it, and 7.0 is going to be a final send off of sorts for XiV since it's a decade old game at this point. Or they're opening the idea of us going off world again like we did in the First to keep the game service as long as possible, maybe pass it to another team so Yoshi P can helm other projects. It could also mean we have a real dark chapter coming up and it's not really and end of all things, but an end to said dark chapter and we'll have fresh adventures after that. Sort of how like FFXI we would have adventures in new areas with new threats each expansion, where XIV was one big ongoing story.

YoRHa

Never played a Nier game, people would praise Automata (thought it was because certain fanboys fawn over 2B, because honestly from first glance the game looked a little dull) Those data logs talk about about "birth", is that what 2P just did before the final boss, holy eldritch abomination! I'm reminded of those real obscure anime from the 90s. The raid was pretty entertaining, I liked the bullet hell rooms. I went in as a MCH and had a blast. Disappointed the gear is near samey as the first go round, but I need to gear my alt classes.

Also, I should of known 2P would go turncoat. What a shame. People are speculating 2B being here is from one of Neir's other endings, so I think they're trying to mesh that here. I kind of wish they would bring voices to the side stories, but I understand voice acting is rather expensive.

Gundam Werlyt

That thing we piloted is going to be a mount at the end of all this, isn't it? I've enjoyed flying it... heck. There's also a nice feeling of seeing Gaius and Cid working together, since this is ironically what Gaius wanted from the very start. Also gave us an explanation on how he survived. These next few patches we're seeing both defected Garlens go through redemption for the sins of their past. I can see this being the main focus going forward before 6.0, and I'd be happier for it. Like my comment for Yorha, I wish we could hear Gaius and Cid speak, it would make this whole mini saga feel the more dramatic.

Interesting trial tidbit

Apparently in the Trial the summoned warriors are references to the heroes of FFIV: DRK Cecil, Rosa, Cid, Rydia, Edge, Palom, and Porom

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Originally Posted by Hikari_Kishimoto

That would have been fine with me, but why not give it a decent ending then?
ShB was so well written, the story built up through many years - and now they just tossed it all out of the window in the blink of an eye.
That doesn't do the story justice. Another expension, or even an enlargened story patch, would have.

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It's weird how the story is written because they def write it so it flows best if you're going through it all at once (like for new players or people catching up).
The 5.1-5.3 story is far more robust than an epilogue. It basically IS a full leg of the story. But for those of us experiencing the patches as little snippets of story with months of waiting in between it can be hard to see it, let alone feel it, that way.
If you ever replay ShB you'll have to let me know if you still feel the same way when you're able to take it all in at once.

On the bombast of a new character at the end of the MSQ:

Despite Fandaniel coming off as a total ham and people's reservations thereof, I think it's wise to remember that people had similar reservations when Solus zos Galvus first appeared in 4.4, hamming up the Ascian-Garlemald revelation. And we know how that turned out. So I'm hopeful that the current writing staff can do the next expac's story justice.

About Ardbert

Maybe I missed something but why is he still that much with us? At the end of Shadowbringers I thought he joined fully with us and is gone (since our soul was stronger and healed afterwards) I always took that walk towards his friends as symbolic.

When Minifila fully joined with Ryne she stopped existing so why does Ardbert still exist?(Not that I am not happy just confused)

About the goodbyes

Watching it again I do tear up especially with Ryne and Seto and in the german version you can hear quite clear how Rynes voice breaks when she talks about her once being Minifila and now Ryne.

But I find the reaction of the others scions way too cold..they would have just gone on if Ryne did not do her little speech..it makes no sense to me. They tear up when its about the other friends they made but their friend who fought alongside them the whole time(and still a child/teenager) does not get a single tear? Does nobody even do hugs in that world? Poor Ryne..

Also I found it interesting how Ysthola (in the german version at least) states how the ancients were just like us. Indiviuals with their problems and different views. And seeing how there is a office just for going around the world and taking care of the problem its clear that they are not that much better than we are.

I continue to be really bothered by the Nier raid not even attempting to fit it into the world. In 5.5 I'll probably just skip the cutscenes outright, because I am super not interested.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

The 5.1-5.3 story is far more robust than an epilogue. It basically IS a full leg of the story.

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What I meant was ...

Elidibus being killed off so quickly after Hades felt rather rushed.
That is why it doesn't feel decent to me.

In addition: it seems as if Elidibus tempering had been broken in the end.
So, why did we have to trap him in the tower anyway?
(It seemed as if his soul had been absorbed by the tower)

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Originally Posted by Alleo

About Ardbert

Maybe I missed something but why is he still that much with us? At the end of Shadowbringers I thought he joined fully with us and is gone (since our soul was stronger and healed afterwards) I always took that walk towards his friends as symbolic.

When Minifila fully joined with Ryne she stopped existing so why does Ardbert still exist?(Not that I am not happy just confused)

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It is most likely because he is a actual fragment of our original soul why he still exists as part of our being. With Ryne she was a new soul and not a fragment of Minfillia's soul.

However, since Ardbert is actual part of our soul thus he has become us and we have become him in the best way I can describe things. I will say more but it gets very confusing even for me and is going into Persona series level of a person's inner/true self, mentality, and desires.

In both Ryne and Minfillia case, both were separate beings that could not be compatible with each other thus one has to be delete for or else both will die due to constant rejection of both souls by the body. If both souls were compatible then they would have fused together like Ardbert and our character thus combining both memories and powers together. However, since their souls were far too different and the body was rejecting the existance of two different souls not compatible with each other, one had to disappear or else both could have died.

Spoilers for 5.3

This patch was just so fucking good. The teases and everything were fantastic, the buildup to the Elidibus fight, etc. Let me start by going over that Elidibus was such a fantastic villain. I'm glad to have seen so much more of him because let's face it, the guy has has been an enigmatic piss off since the ARR days ever since waking sands, warring triad references, etc. The part in Dawn's respite was perfectly eerie and I loved it. But I also loved the solo duty where Elidibus admits to us that we are stronger than him once he puts us on a trip down memory lane. That solo duty was fantastic. Testing the WOL by fighting all her enemies she vanquished.... it really shows that the WoL is incredibly powerful and like Elidibus said, death itself (really interesting) I knew by the time Warrior of light was teased it was going to be the fight or something close to it. It was just so amazing and i'm blown away. Also, the reveal that Warrior of light is the seat of Azem (the 14th member of the Ascians) even though it was pretty much confirmed since the end of 5.0 was really nice to have 100% confirmed. The question remains though... what if the scions found out we are ascian? We dont know it yet. At any rate I dont think they will find out until we fight Hydaelyn herself or Zodiark. It's definitely a huge huge reveal that I hope they keep for the right time.

I also felt this patch hit me hard. The Miqote little girl in the beginning..... Crystal Exarch dying in Norvrantd forever, Lyna crying, Elidibus's last words, the exarch narrating.... it was all so typically Final Fantasy. In fact, this patch was more Final Fantasy than ever. I love the FFI reference with Elidibus, the chemist job tease from the little M'iqote, and the possible Necromancer reference. The new dungeon was also pretty good. I like how it was basically a gauntlet throughout Norvrantd. The trial fight itself was a fitting finale for Shadowbringers and that music is great. The fight references a multitude of FF references but the Emet Selch wave midway through the trial made me smile.

Later on, Y'shtola flirting gave me life.... just saying ;) even if it happened to be with Runar... it was just such a funny moment teasing him that's he's still a boy in a man's body. She's previously rejected Magnai after all, rofl. My god Y'shtola is just such a great character.... if she ever died the game would never be the same. That being said I kinda feel like they overdid it on the goodbyes here.

I'm really glad that the scions all got their souls back untrapped and can travel to the source now but does that means only Ryne and Gaia will be joining us for the finale with Eden? It kinda felt the scions were written out of that story this patch. Eden tied into the MSQ a little after all. Anyway, the last scene with Zenos and the reveal that white robed figure is an Ascian was so obvious. But man, Zenos ignoring Fandaniel taking the form of Brutus was fantastic. Brutus was his biggest fan after all.... it was so fucking hilarious for Zenos to pretty much call him a literally who. But man we killed 2 major Ascian bosses now and Fandaniel strikes me as just a bloodthirsty Ascian. I think he is obviously the final boss of next expansion and Zenos will be there as well. But can anything even top Emet Selch and Elidibus? Maybe Fandaniel? I dont know... Fandaniel was never mentioned before. We only know his name exists because he was one of the Ascian overlords. He is significantly weaker than both Emet and Elidibus possibly even combined. I'm very interested to see what they do with him. Oh and G'raha Tia now being a Scion was very expected. I expected he would die this patch but i'm glad he lived now in the source.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

In both Ryne and Minfillia case, both were separate beings that could not be compatible with each other thus one has to be delete for or else both will die due to constant rejection of both souls by the body. If both souls were compatible then they would have fused together like Ardbert and our character thus combining both memories and powers together. However, since their souls were far too different and the body was rejecting the existance of two different souls not compatible with each other, one had to disappear or else both could have died.

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Minor 5.3 spoiler, sort of.

I can't help but wonder if this is actually true. After the Crossroads scene, Ryne says she can feel Minfilia within her, and in 5.3, she speculates that she can feel Hydaelyn's presence, despite not being able to hear Her, through Minfilia. To me, that sounds like Minfilia is still a distinct entity, and I can't help but wonder if their merger was less "two separate souls merge into one fused soul" and more "two separate souls merge, with one engulfing the other". Or something like that.

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Originally Posted by Hazama999

I am... really not seeing this apothecary/chemist job a lot of people are EXTREMELY SURE OF.

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Same here.

On Alisae and Alphinaud's future...

Alisae is dropping heavy hints that she's going to get a class change soon, probably as a preview to a new job next expansion. But I can't be the only one thinking that Alphinaud is due for a class change too. I personally think Bard fits him extremely well given his artistic tendencies and skills as an orator, plus the mental image of him pulling out a bow after a scathing lecture and smiting some fools with a Refulgent Arrow is hilarious.

Archers are the only original class not yet represented by the major Scions or allies.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

Archers are the only original class not yet represented by the major Scions or allies.

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Ironically,

G'raha was the original representative Archer, but dropped the bow in favor of the all-rounder role he had as the Exarch.

Insert random 5.3 thoughts here

Now that we have our true soulstone (azem) back i am excited to see where this goes. And honestly i do wonder how much stronger we are going to get.
There is too much to think for our character now. I am surprised how well they can handle that

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Ironically,

G'raha was the original representative Archer, but dropped the bow in favor of the all-rounder role he had as the Exarch.

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I was watching that end scene hoping he would march up with a bow, or get like a special bow-staff so we'd have our first representative of a true arcane archer in all of FF.

Though I understand why he switched to being a caster, being an archer no longer suits his role in the story.

Also theories on future plot threads...

We've probably learned all we can about Amaurot at this point. Since the story revealed that we are basically a reincarnation of Azem the wanderer, along with the implication of today's societies worshiping an aspect of Azem through similar names like Azyema and Azim, I think the story leading up to the expansion and beyond might move into the topic of other ancient societies and how Azem left their mark on them.

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

I continue to be really bothered by the Nier raid not even attempting to fit it into the world. In 5.5 I'll probably just skip the cutscenes outright, because I am super not interested.

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You must be new to Yoko Taro. How things fit in is never explained in his stuff until towards the end of each game. You think you know what is going on, then you hit towards the end of the game and you get sucker-punched by him throwing a curveball your way. I expect the final tier of the Nier raid to be the same.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

You must be new to Yoko Taro. How things fit in is never explained in his stuff until towards the end of each game. You think you know what is going on, then you hit towards the end of the game and you get sucker-punched by him throwing a curveball your way. I expect the final tier of the Nier raid to be the same.

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That and players need to collect the collection items from the raids after they finished to get a glimps into what is going on.

Just some last bits...

Werlyt

Apropos of nothing, does anyone have an idea as to who van Varro is supposed to be channeling? Typically an Imperial Legatus shares characteristics with an antagonist from their Legion's numbered title in the franchise; as the new Legatus of the VIIth, he'd logically have some similarities to an antagonist from VII.

The best I got is Don Corneo (another pink-clad creepshow who uses people until they've outlived their usefulness to him).

Then again, van Gabranth is Legatus of the IVth but he's lifted almost wholesale from XII, so who knows anymore.

YoRHa

Conceptually I get what's going on; I expected weirdness, and I did go back through the Bunker to collect the data logs so I do understand what's going on. I also played some of Automata and have read a synopsis on the rest, so I'm not in the dark at all.

But 2P is actually just an evil Machine copy of 2B, and the genuine article comes out of nowhere to take over as the real protagonist?! I haven't liked shocking swerves like that since The Last Jedi threw a dozen of 'em at me in the span of like 2.5 hours, with only one being narratively meaningful.

Also the evil clone thing reminds me of an episode of Star Trek: Voyager, so the concept isn't all that new to me...

Scions

The real reason everyone but Alphinaud and Alisae got their First gear recreated for them on the Source is gameplay; with the Trust system now being a thing they probably don't want to switch their jobs up until 6.0 (or later), and with all but those two having alternate jobs on the First compared to what they were on the Source (Thancred switched from ROG to GNB, Y'shtola from CNJ to BLM, and Urianger from ACN to AST) and they'd need their new outfits for their roles in Trusts. Given he's newly (re)awakened and joined, G'raha also gets a new outfit (and though I've literally never touched the Trust system, bet he's WHM for healer variety and because having two BLMs would be redundant).

Meanwhile, the twins are exactly the same they've always been (or at least since Alisae officially joined in 3.4), hence them wearing the same clothes they have since back then. Alph's in his old Ishgard outfit, folks!

Moving Forward

I'm willing to be patient with Fandaniel and see where he goes; as an Ascian he's more than likely to have gambits up his sleeve, but what we've seen of him thus far isn't much better than Zenos. With Emet-Selch at least you had the mystery of his plans and motives, and the legacy he left behind as engineer of Allag and Garlemald; all that and more has been laid bare, but all we have on Fandaniel thus far is him being giddy Elidibus is dead so he can act with impunity.

G'raha hinting 6.0 will be the end... well, I'm a bit sad if that's the case, but I'd rather the game end on a high note than become a shambling zombie of its former self a la World of Warcraft. (Seriously, excepting Legion everything since Wrath of the Lich King has been between "meh" and shit.) Even if it's just the end of "Season 1" and Yoshi-P steps down as director and producer, I'd be fine with leaving things at whatever conclusion is reached, maybe. Like how I enjoyed Naruto but haven't touched the sequel series because it just feels... unnecessary.

Aaaaaaand now that's done, so with all the major new patch content out of the way I'll get back to Ghost of Tsushima! Don't forget about the Yo-Kai Watch! event next week, scrubs!

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

We've probably learned all we can about Amaurot at this point.

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I'm not so sure about that.
Zenos keeps dreaming about the last days of Amaurot, which is why I think the topic will come up again not far in the future.

I’ve had some time to clear up my thoughts on the patch. Quite a bit of ground to cover, though TLDR is mixed views, mostly leaning to disappointed.

The highlights

Elidibus was, without a doubt, one of my favourite characters since ARR, even amongst the other Ascians. Whilst I found his portrayal jarring in this patch, I am glad that at the least, he was not reduced to a cartoonish villain and was given a rather poignant send off. I’m not the emotional sort, but the scene was moving, especially when he said:

“Stay strong. Keep the faith. At duty’s end, we will meet again. We will. We will.

The rains have ceased, and we have been graced with another beautiful day. But you are not here to see it.”

I take it the childish form he assumed was the last time he recalled truly being himself, what with the effect being the saviour of his people in the form of Zodiark had on him. They pushed the parallels between him and G’raha – and their mutual zeal (some of this shows through when G’raha mentions claiming his soul) – in the strongest terms. There were also some parallels with the WoL in their outlook. Ironically, the words G’raha exhorts the WoL to bear in mind at the end, in the epilogue, seem to describe a very similar situation to that which Elidibus, bereft of memory of his purpose, found himself in.

Next, I enjoyed the trail of Convocation stones (presumably left by Elidibus, barring Azem’s?), detailing some of the thoughts of the Convocation, some of which surrounding Zodiark, as well as Elidibus’s earlier memories, suggesting he bore a close relationship (mentorship, perhaps) with the Speaker (Lahabrea as we know him, I assume.) The reveal of who the main character was in the Convocation (“Azem”) was nice, too, and this further cements the idea in my mind that the Twelve are a distant memory of the Convocation.

By all appearances, Zodiark and his heart were both noble in intent, with Elidibus even withdrawing from Zodiark to fulfil his office’s function (Reconciliation, by the sounds of it), as the disagreement raged beyond what was usual for the ancients. It also underscores that the ancients were not necessarily a hivemind, as when inducted Elidibus was informed they would sometimes disagree on the best course on steering the star and mankind. It was more that their proposed resolution would usually be dialogue and debate. He also made a point of how he could not fathom Zenos at all when possessing his form, referring to him as a "beast" (which comes up again in the Zenos epilogue.)

I very much see these stones playing a future part in the story and predict a scene where the Convocation is summoned (in spirit, as with Emet) to put down an abuse of Zodiark through Fandaniel and Zenos. I also liked that the WoL heeded Y’shtola’s exhortation to better understand the ancients, and how he leaned in towards Elidibus at the end, something that left the character a bit conflicted. Earlier on he recalled flashbacks of Emet-Selch and Lahabrea. The whole story seems to have left the main character a bit addled too about his identity as a WoL and its meaning. At least the commitment to remember them is genuine.

Lastly, this was by far the most tolerable Alisaie has been.

The rest

With the above said, I was not that impressed by them writing Elidibus to be forgetful. I suspected they would have trouble giving him a compelling role to fit, following Emet-Selch, as the exposition of the ancient world was something I could easily see him slotting into, as was negotiating some third way forward, even if the concept was never realised – instead, Elidibus was put forward as uncompromising in spite of his office’s role. On the whole, I did not find his portrayal convincing at all – I know they have in-story justifications for it, but they wore thin and did not satisfy me. Plus, the trial was only a “surprise” in the form he took.

I also was left unsatisfied with how they covered off the concept of “equilibrium”, making little reference to how the sundered state of the world had affected it (referring back to the comments Lahabrea makes in the Praetorium) and the Aetherial Sea, and little comment on how a light-aspected Primal in the centre of it would impact its balance. I suspect these plot points were seen as too esoteric to explore in the time which 5.3 had afforded to it and so perhaps were dropped in favour of a simpler/faster explanation. Perhaps they were not even considered. It matters not. I am left feeling unimpressed by this.

Elidibus’s simple acquiescence to the protagonist’s assertions that he could not reach his goals also wore thin. Emet-Selch recalled his people, his world and his goals very clearly. I am not convinced Elidibus would be unable to and it comes across as yet another story contrivance. In retrospect, it doesn’t even seem convincing that Emet-Selch and Lahabrea would take direction from him if they had a clearer concept of their goal than he, which Emet-Selch absolutely did, even if he sought to compromise at various points.

I was dissatisfied with how Regula and Varis were ended (and yet again with how little love Regula was given with Sapphire weapon), and feel much the same with Elidibus. I think they struggle somewhat with more serious, to the point personas and thus resort to plot gimmicks like madness or dementia to try force some empathy for or amusement out of them, where necessary. Likewise, Unukalhai seems to have been reduced to having a few words to say about how it saddened him, but no more than that.

I think the setting has a lot of potential plot points and nuance, that are unfortunately left in the dust all too quickly. Perhaps the patch release pace makes it inevitable, to some extent, but it is a pity all the same.

With how poorly Elidibus was written at the end of Stormblood, it seems like they forced their own hand and were left with very few ideas on how to differentiate him from Emet-Selch, whom they were able to imbue with a more theatrical persona and a much greater degree of clarity of purpose and self-assurance.

Onto more specifics, from the get-go I did not like them shoving some miqo’te mystel girl with wide eyes in front of me from early on. So, too, did I find Alisaie and Alphinaud’s comments in regards to themselves a bit too “meta” and forced.

The events in Amaurot, where Elidibus seeks to get you to understand his pain for his brethren’s fall (in part because he felt culpable for these deaths) fell flat and were simply a redux of the DRK quests. I would much rather have seen the perspective of the unsundered, which Emet gave (and is explored in Tales from the Shadow) expanded, perhaps in visual form, to drive home how these higher life forms related to the sundered and the sense of loss and pain they feel in seeing the souls of their people reduced thus, and the loneliness they experience.

I found the dungeon very forgettable, and the trial felt very jarring/disjointed as an Elidibus fight. Whilst I like it aesthetically, it’s something that could just as easily have been placed in Omega, from where some of the mechanics stem. At least it was a good enough challenge for a normal mode. The music was the highlight (though there could have been more of it), as was Emet’s appearance, with his signature finger snap and wave, but at this point Emet-Selch’s fight and persona have just overtaken Elidibus’s completely, for me. With Emet, it felt like a true fight between a Warrior of Light and a Warrior of Darkness, of two old friends put on opposite sides, and if not equals in power (given how much it took to even the odds with Emet), at least in mindset. With Elidibus it felt like a mercy kill, no doubt intentionally. A funny thought that occurred is that Elidibus is a parallel to the game itself, what with all the references it draws on from other FFs, sometimes leaving its own sense of identity a little muddled.

Fandaniel and Zenos do not interest me in the slightest. The former rejoices in the death of characters who were either far more interesting or had far more potential. He is, by contrast, just a jester to make the very dull Zenos engaging. Zenos? What to say of him. With all the references by Elidibus, to Zenos, as the “beast”, it’s clear he is being portrayed as someone who poses a grave threat to the world – one which they seem to have been at a loss to introduce without Zenos, within the confines of the unsundered Ascians’ plot, while he prattles on each time about the hunt. Perhaps Fandaniel’s persona will tie to him being some troublemaker even in ancient times. Just seems like a reset of the Ascians back to business as before, and going back to light (good) vs dark (evil) as they put two outright psychopaths in the latter position. Even Lahabrea, the most aggressive of the elder Ascians, still had a sense of mystery and a bigger picture view he was privy to, whereas with Fandaniel all such promise seems absent. I will review their progress at later patches to see if anything changes, but eh...not getting my hopes up. Meanwhile, Garlemald is in Zenos's hands, even as he forsook it just 2 patches ago, though I suppose this ties in the conclusion of the H/Z arc with going there. Let's just see if it survives it.

I also note they’ve introduced plenty of plot points now which seem to go in the direction of transitioning Hydaelyn into obsolescence. We’ll see how that goes, and how her summoners’ motives shape up, because at the moment I get a sense they were driven by paranoia. We will also see if further exploration of the sound precipitating Amaurot’s fall comes into focus, or whether this is of little significance. The way the words over Zenos sound, it looks like the game itself is being taken to its end, but Yoshi is insistent it is just the H/Z arc, so for now I am not reading too much into that.

Whilst Yoshi was giving interviews, claiming no one is safe, it was only the antagonist who was not the least bit surprising (but for the form he took) which was not. Everyone else, the Exarch included, was fine. Much as with the assumption of the title of WoD, I think a lot was played very safe.

I get the sense that the lore is of secondary importance to writing an emotionally engaging story to them, and perhaps that is why a lot of this felt rushed and incoherent (even if attempted justifications were made within the story) to me. There also seems to be a greater focus on a power of god and anime style of writing, and fan service (e.g. Ryne/Gaia and their interactions, G’raha/Zenos drooling over the main character, etc.), and ultimately this is simply not to my tastes. It follows from how Yoshi often describes the game as seasons in a TV show, as the mindset in that case is similar, i.e. focusing on emotional engagement and cliffhangers to build hype. It almost seems as though certain plot details are added in last minute after gauging fan feedback via social media on various plot elements. Likewise, I found the First just too similar to the Source in spite of many things that logically should have left it a very different state. Not something I liked from a world-building perspective.

Coupled with the following:

• Limited character customisation options and dissatisfaction with the level of attention paid to male playable characters
• Unclear whether they will address the low res textures
• The limited races
• Excessive coddling of elements of the playerbase
• Very limited risk appetite plotwise

I am considering just taking a break story wise and reviewing where the game goes in future patches/expansions, as at the moment it’s not holding my interest. Very much a subjective thing and I am glad to see a lot of people enjoyed it nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Just some last bits...

Scions

The real reason everyone but Alphinaud and Alisae got their First gear recreated for them on the Source is gameplay; with the Trust system now being a thing they probably don't want to switch their jobs up until 6.0 (or later), and with all but those two having alternate jobs on the First compared to what they were on the Source (Thancred switched from ROG to GNB, Y'shtola from CNJ to BLM, and Urianger from ACN to AST) and they'd need their new outfits for their roles in Trusts. Given he's newly (re)awakened and joined, G'raha also gets a new outfit (and though I've literally never touched the Trust system, bet he's WHM for healer variety and because having two BLMs would be redundant).

Meanwhile, the twins are exactly the same they've always been (or at least since Alisae officially joined in 3.4), hence them wearing the same clothes they have since back then. Alph's in his old Ishgard outfit, folks!

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In regards to Scions

G`raha is still an allrounder, and is apparently the best at performing all the roles due to new ai scripting compared to Exarch

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Moving Forward

I'm willing to be patient with Fandaniel and see where he goes; as an Ascian he's more than likely to have gambits up his sleeve, but what we've seen of him thus far isn't much better than Zenos. With Emet-Selch at least you had the mystery of his plans and motives, and the legacy he left behind as engineer of Allag and Garlemald; all that and more has been laid bare, but all we have on Fandaniel thus far is him being giddy Elidibus is dead so he can act with impunity.

G'raha hinting 6.0 will be the end... well, I'm a bit sad if that's the case, but I'd rather the game end on a high note than become a shambling zombie of its former self a la World of Warcraft. (Seriously, excepting Legion everything since Wrath of the Lich King has been between "meh" and shit.) Even if it's just the end of "Season 1" and Yoshi-P steps down as director and producer, I'd be fine with leaving things at whatever conclusion is reached, maybe. Like how I enjoyed Naruto but haven't touched the sequel series because it just feels... unnecessary.

Aaaaaaand now that's done, so with all the major new patch content out of the way I'll get back to Ghost of Tsushima! Don't forget about the Yo-Kai Watch! event next week, scrubs!

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I'm not sure how much to read into the stuff...

...about the end/final chapter. They're insistent new adventures will take off after the current saga ends, though I suppose that is what you mean with the end of season 1. I guess we shall see what this amounts to in practice, but I get the sense it will enter a very similar state of existence to where XI is now. I'm sort of hoping they will eventually announce another MMO, without all the limitations this one has been plagued with, and with a plot they can more fully commit to from the outset.

I agree about Fandaniel/Zenos.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

You must be new to Yoko Taro. How things fit in is never explained in his stuff until towards the end of each game. You think you know what is going on, then you hit towards the end of the game and you get sucker-punched by him throwing a curveball your way. I expect the final tier of the Nier raid to be the same.

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Well he should do better to get people invested from the beginning, because a plot twist at the end won't matter if I'm so uninterested before then that I'm skipping cutscenes.

This story so far has absolutely nothing to do with Norvrandt or Eorzea. It's all extremely out of place and they're not even slightly attempting to mesh it with XIV's setting. I don't see why I should care about anything that's going on.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

You must be new to Yoko Taro. How things fit in is never explained in his stuff until towards the end of each game. You think you know what is going on, then you hit towards the end of the game and you get sucker-punched by him throwing a curveball your way. I expect the final tier of the Nier raid to be the same.

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This must be how FF12 and Tacticts fans felt during Ivalice. Because this was made for me and I can't hep but to want to sprinkle salt atop the heads of people complaining.

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Well he should do better to get people invested from the beginning, because a plot twist at the end won't matter if I'm so uninterested before then that I'm skipping cutscenes.

This story so far has absolutely nothing to do with Norvrandt or Eorzea. It's all extremely out of place and they're not even slightly attempting to mesh it with XIV's setting. I don't see why I should care about anything that's going on.

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Weep. I am so very sorry for you.

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Well he should do better to get people invested from the beginning, because a plot twist at the end won't matter if I'm so uninterested before then that I'm skipping cutscenes.

This story so far has absolutely nothing to do with Norvrandt or Eorzea. It's all extremely out of place and they're not even slightly attempting to mesh it with XIV's setting. I don't see why I should care about anything that's going on.

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His games draw you in during the beginning due to their unique gameplay and bizarre world. Look up the starting part of Nier Automata to get a good look at his MO. As for how it meshes...I have a sneaking suspicion they're going to reference Ending D of Nier Automata in the finale. And if that is what they use, those of us who have finished the game already have a thought on how they're going to do it.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I get the sense that the lore is of secondary importance to writing an emotionally engaging story to them...

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Very much this.

Although I don't understand, why they would go for that now.
ShB was the most successful expansion BECAUSE the writing was so exceptionally good.
(And at almost no point did they try to force feelings; feelings came naturally)

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

His games draw you in during the beginning due to their unique gameplay and bizarre world. Look up the starting part of Nier Automata to get a good look at his MO. As for how it meshes...I have a sneaking suspicion they're going to reference Ending D of Nier Automata in the finale. And if that is what they use, those of us who have finished the game already have a thought on how they're going to do it.

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I got PTSD at those rings. I want him to go full on Ending E. Or have a way to repeat the quest for the opposite choice for a bonus.

If someone doesn't want to be sold on Taro, then there's no selling to them. His games are weird, he knows they're weird and considering what your party members consist of, it's a niche taste far from it to be enjoyed by a majority.

So, regarding the MSQ, does anyone else now have hope that the postmoogle quests will be making a return after this patch? Cus we're basically one of two beings that can traverse the shards at will and now we have parties interested in correspondence on both sides.

I'd love it. I want to be an interdimensional postmoogle. "Neither rain, nor sleet, nor the Rift itself, will keep the postmoogle from their appointed rounds, kupo."

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

So, regarding the MSQ, does anyone else now have hope that the postmoogle quests will be making a return after this patch? Cus we're basically one of two beings that can traverse the shards at will and now we have parties interested in correspondence on both sides.

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Not to mention...

The option of acting like a moogle when handing over the Archon bread. It's especially funny if you've done all the postmoogle quests, since you're an honorary one.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Not to mention...

The option of acting like a moogle when handing over the Archon bread. It's especially funny if you've done all the postmoogle quests, since you're an honorary one.

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Yeah. Thancred's deadpan response to that was rather amusing, too.

More MSQ thoughts:

I couldn't be happier with how the Exarch situation resolved itself. It was what I considered the best possible outcome going in to all this, and I am kinda over the moon still that it actually happened. lol Can't wait to take him along on every trust. And I hope there's a questline where we take him around to attune to aaetherytes or something. I want him to meet the fam in Ishgard really badly. And the Doma crew.

Maybe make it a group trip to Tamamizu so he and the rest who can't waterbreath get to learn how. Two birds, one stone.

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

Yeah. Thancred's deadpan response to that was rather amusing, too.

More MSQ thoughts:

I couldn't be happier with how the Exarch situation resolved itself. It was what I considered the best possible outcome going in to all this, and I am kinda over the moon still that it actually happened. lol Can't wait to take him along on every trust. And I hope there's a questline where we take him around to attune to aaetherytes or something. I want him to meet the fam in Ishgard really badly. And the Doma crew.

Maybe make it a group trip to Tamamizu so he and the rest who can't waterbreath get to learn how. Two birds, one stone.

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The most biggest fangirl sqee-ing inside. This patch made me feel young again. So very, stupidly young.

I've watched too much anime because as far as I know he basically proposed based on his wording and that ear perk Ah! /swoon I want to take him everywhere

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Well he should do better to get people invested from the beginning, because a plot twist at the end won't matter if I'm so uninterested before then that I'm skipping cutscenes.

This story so far has absolutely nothing to do with Norvrandt or Eorzea. It's all extremely out of place and they're not even slightly attempting to mesh it with XIV's setting. I don't see why I should care about anything that's going on.

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I believe the issue you're having is that the answer is not being presented to you from the beginning.

The thing about the Drakengard/Nier series is that the story is never presented to the play upfront until near the ending of the game. This game series is known for starting the story as something that appears very predictable but then as players get closer to the end they learn there has always been far more than what it seems and everything they have known was never what it was.

This is a staple of the series many people who follow the Drakengard/Nier series love and hate at the sametime.

I have seen people say Y'shtola theorized Emet-Selch's last words were also meant for Elidibus. I don't remember that. Is it in a cutscene that I missed or is it something she says if you talk to her at a certain point?