Shadowbringers starting to feel like a budget expansion

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It isn't. There's plenty of wonderful people who play WoW. Just as there's plenty of wonderful people who play FFXIV.

Neither is without their rotten apples.

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The WoW community is scary. In WoW you are not a player you are a #. You are publicly shamed constantly over dps, scores, item levels etc. Slurs of all kinds are tossed around in chats continuously as well. There is absolutely nothing even remotely like that in ffxiv.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

The WoW community is scary. In WoW you are not a player you are a #. You are publicly shamed constantly over dps, scores, item levels etc. Slurs of all kinds are tossed around in chats continuously as well. There is absolutely nothing even remotely like that in ffxiv.

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Why some people don't want dps meter in 14 again?

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

I think it's known what they're working on behind the scenes, it's the redo of 2.0 content. There's also evidence to suggest they're redoing some of those zones to an extent to allow flight.

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I know people have latched onto the hope of this (I think because they altered the zone boundaries to match "flying zones" in the expansions?) but it might not be that. I think a while ago they mentioned adding Z-axis tracking for old zones, which might require the same changes.

They could be working on it, but don't pin your hopes on it until they announce it for certain.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I know people have latched onto the hope of this (I think because they altered the zone boundaries to match "flying zones" in the expansions?) but it might not be that. I think a while ago they mentioned adding Z-axis tracking for old zones, which might require the same changes.

They could be working on it, but don't pin your hopes on it until they announce it for certain.

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Why add Z-axis tracking for old zones where it's unneeded if you never plan on adding something that uses it?

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Originally Posted by Sesera

FF14 community and WoW community is the same but at least the WoW community acknolegde it and don't pretend to be awesome and friendly.

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Completely incorrect. This is nothing like the cesspool that resides there and I was there for years. The community there is the biggest downfall.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Why add Z-axis tracking for old zones where it's unneeded if you never plan on adding something that uses it?

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I don't know; consistency maybe if it's not much work. I just vaguely remember them saying it at some point.

ARR is mostly flat but there are definitely a few spots where it gets confusing. I got quite lost in Alder Springs as a new player, wandering back and forth in the lower part of the tunnels when the objective was up above.

It will probably feel like this every expansion until Square Enix comes out with the next FF MMO. FFXIV has been very successful, and they are coasting on it now. Comfy cash shop ride. Buy more mounts if you want more content! I'm sure it will work...

Personally i think we need to set aside our differences about the communities of other games. In the end, a community is what you make of it. Treat others how you want to be treated yourself. No use pointing fingers to others and calling them toxic, elitist, a white knight, etc.

Everyone will have an opinion about a game and they are in their right to make their opinions known on a public forum, like this. The only thing a Developer would ask, is to be respectful to the team and your fellow players. If you don't like something they made (or didn't make), be sure to let them know. Based on that, they can gather it as feedback for future developments. This will not by any means guarantee that they will implement it the way you want it to, but they will at least consider it (based on what the player base feels about it).

On the other side, if you don't agree with an opinion from another player, that's fine. You can make your own opinion known, but please do so in a civil manner. People are more incline to listen to your arguments / opinions that way. Nobody wants to feel like their being attacked or berated, just because they don't like something or think differently about things.

When it comes to the statement behind this particular thread: "Shadowbringers starting to feel like a budget expansion". I personally can't agree with that. My reason being that the quality of the story(telling) has increased quite a bit with each expansion. Next to that, they've introduced new systems with which people can access content at their own pace (trusts) or revisit older content (New Game+). Then you have the overhaul of the Crafting and Gathering systems, where they made it more accessible for newer players, but also keep the "end-game" side to it (through the Expert recipes).

While a lot of people are still quite upset with the fact that both the Viera and the Hrothgar are genderlocked. If you look at them as 1 "race", you still get something similar to when they introduced the Au ra back in Heavensward. I agree with the opinion that i would rather want to see 2 genders per race, but if they team couldn't realize it with their current resources, i will still welcome the addition of the Viera and the Hrothgar with open arms (even if i don't use them myself). Every new race, job, customization option is a welcome addition.

Even though Yoshida mention that these will most likely be the last 2 races they will be implementing, they still haven't given a definite "No" to a future release of the missing genders. So, just keep giving them feedback that you want to see the 2 missing genders. When they can get the resources for it (not just the budget), they might still do so.

It is true that over the expansions we've seen less dungeons and no Deep Dungeon in Shadowbringers as of yet. As Yoshida mentioned over the course the expansion so far, is that they want to free up the resources to give players a more varied assortment of content to play. This will result in content being added that not everyone will be interested in, but it will also other types of content for players to play who are interested in. In these few updates new content was made for crafters and gatherers and in my opinion, it was needed.

They also mentioned that a new "Baldesion Arsenal"-type of content is on the way, so the PvE community has something to look forward too. We just need to keep in mind, that we're only at update 5.25. There are still more updates to come, where we will get 2 more 24-man raids, a new 8-man tier, more MSQ and other (still unannounced) content.

That doesn't change much for players who feel like they don't have anything to do right now. I can't speak for them. I can only speak for myself and say that i enjoy playing the content i'm interested in (leveling jobs though the daily roulettes, running Savage, leveling crafters so that i can meld and repair my own gear, etc) and i will take my time in doing so. I also give myself some time to play other games, so that i'm not running the risk of burning out on FFXIV (and i have a huge backlog of single player games...).

But... That's just how i feel about it.

I can only hope that we can get along in game, communicate with each other in a civil and respectable manner, agree to disagree (if needed) and most importantly... Have fun. So, stay safe and healthy. Maybe we'll see each other in-game at one point and run content together.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

FF14 community and WoW community is the same but at least the WoW community acknolegde it and don't pretend to be awesome and friendly.

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FFXIV Community is just as toxic but in a different way. In WoW, if u disagree and think what blizzard does is good you get insulted. In XIV if u ever ask for something or say you dont like something you get insulted. Just two faces of the same coin

I totally agree with op.
In Stormblood we had more dungeons and 4 Eureka islands with monsters and some unique bosses, new systems and at the end a awesome new BA dungeons that is still done by a lot of players.

In SHB we got......
1 primal and a good looking solo instance.

Nothing for long therm, nothing special and we are already halfway through the add on.

I'm looking forward for the next BA like dungeon that got already confirmed but then I still, will we see it even this year?

It looks like a lot of resources that got used for SB are now just gone.

Shb started really strong but every patch so far is just... Meeeh.

From my experience I like the WoW community better. Much less virtue signaling and snowlflake treatment, you have to humble yourself there or you will be put in your place quite quickly.

Also indeed how the community is constantly critical of the game and is kind of known to complain over everything. I think WoW would have been a much bigger shithole right now if there wasn't the overly critical playerbase.

Because it is a budget expansion.

Despite them doing much more money than they used to they are cutting on the content because of the greed.

Almost 1 year into expansion and new races got NOTHING.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

So fun story, I was considering resubscribing to Classic WoW earlier this week but I figured I'd see what this patch had to offer. Turns out, done and done within a few hours easy. So, looking like WoW is back on the menu.

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GW2 is worth checking, i may go back playing it.
I dont have any energy left to play ffxiv anymore, 1 dungeon every 3-6 months does not wind me up to play, neither does alliance raid once every half a year. Farming tomestones takes 1 day and there is 6 days of doing nothing. I like to play pvp but its dead and queue times hit 1 hour mark. Crafting stuff is boring, fishing is even more boring, bleh
I have virtually nothing to do in this game.

Sucks that the MMO market is crap right now when it comes to non niche MMOs, barely any competition it seems. I'm going to try out eso though even though it's completely different. Might stick there if I like it enought cause seems like that game offers a TON of content for what you pay.

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Originally Posted by Curisu

I totally agree with op.
In Stormblood we had more dungeons and 4 Eureka islands with monsters and some unique bosses, new systems and at the end a awesome new BA dungeons that is still done by a lot of players.

In SHB we got......
1 primal and a good looking solo instance.

Nothing for long therm, nothing special and we are already halfway through the add on.

I'm looking forward for the next BA like dungeon that got already confirmed but then I still, will we see it even this year?

It looks like a lot of resources that got used for SB are now just gone.

Shb started really strong but every patch so far is just... Meeeh.

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And how many patches did it take to get all that content? Good god people its not 5.2, or 5.3. Its a mid patch for a drip of content and when 6.12 hits everything that made up 5.0 will be glorified.

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Originally Posted by Curisu

I totally agree with op.
In Stormblood we had more dungeons and 4 Eureka islands with monsters and some unique bosses, new systems and at the end a awesome new BA dungeons that is still done by a lot of players.
In SHB we got......
1 primal and a good looking solo instance.

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I love when people compare a whole expansion with a single patch.

The standard I'm leaving song happens every expansion and patch. The one thing I know for sure for me at least is that every time I log in there is a waiting list for people trying to get into the server regardless of the time of day and I have toons on multiple servers and data centers and it's all the same. Cities are full of people so some appear to be happy with the content I would suggest.

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

I love when people compare a whole expansion with a single patch.

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With a x.x5 patch, on top of that.

The games been dying since August of 2013 when it relaunched. People made doom and gloom topics weekly then too. The games still kicking though.


It does amuse me, as someone who's been around since launch and never unsubbed, seeing people with forum join dates of less than a year saying there's nothing to do and they are bored, when I'm still finding stuff to do on a weekly basis that I haven't completed yet.

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Originally Posted by Gula

And how many patches did it take to get all that content? Good god people its not 5.2, or 5.3. Its a mid patch for a drip of content and when 6.12 hits everything that made up 5.0 will be glorified.

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The patch notes for Patch 4.25 have arrived. Read on to prepare for the Forbidden Land, Eureka Anemos

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...f29e4a2394c5b4

Anemos wasn't .2 or .3 but .25 and was long lasting content.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

The patch notes for Patch 4.25 have arrived. Read on to prepare for the Forbidden Land, Eureka Anemos

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...f29e4a2394c5b4

Anemos wasn't .2 or .3 but .25 and was long lasting content.

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And tons of people complained it was too grindy for casuals.

I also remember hearing fates weren't content, it was just diadem 3.0 so it wasn't new content, etc.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The games been dying since August of 2013 when it relaunched. People made doom and gloom topics weekly then too. The games still kicking though.


It does amuse me, as someone who's been around since launch and never unsubbed, seeing people with forum join dates of less than a year saying there's nothing to do and they are bored, when I'm still finding stuff to do on a weekly basis that I haven't completed yet.

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I'm playing since 2.16 (though created forum acc only in HW), and still not even nearly done. Mostly because my online is fairly low I guess in comparison to some people, but still.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The games been dying since August of 2013 when it relaunched. People made doom and gloom topics weekly then too. The games still kicking though.


It does amuse me, as someone who's been around since launch and never unsubbed, seeing people with forum join dates of less than a year saying there's nothing to do and they are bored, when I'm still finding stuff to do on a weekly basis that I haven't completed yet.

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I get amused by that too honestly. I've actually been playing since 1.0 but my forum join date is in 2013. I have never been unsubbed. My breaks from the game have just been playing much less, maybe a day a week when I take a break, but I always have things to do. Again, I do almost all content in this game so I've always got something to do. Are there things SE could fix or do better - yup! But overall I really enjoy the game.

I've also noticed there are several forum posters who complain about EVERYTHING. They don't seem to like anything about the game - at least that's all I can gather from their posts in many threads. Makes me wonder why some people even sub to play this game. Not in a "go away" wonder. I'm just genuinely curious as to why someone would pay a sub for something they don't seem to enjoy at all.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The games been dying since August of 2013 when it relaunched. People made doom and gloom topics weekly then too. The games still kicking though.


It does amuse me, as someone who's been around since launch and never unsubbed, seeing people with forum join dates of less than a year saying there's nothing to do and they are bored, when I'm still finding stuff to do on a weekly basis that I haven't completed yet.

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I've been playing since 2.2 (you can check date of my first achievement for proof) but joined forums about 2 years ago. I'm sure there are others like me.

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Originally Posted by Arillyn

I've also noticed there are several forum posters who complain about EVERYTHING. They don't seem to like anything about the game - at least that's all I can gather from their posts in many threads. Makes me wonder why some people even sub to play this game. Not in a "go away" wonder. I'm just genuinely curious as to why someone would pay a sub for something they don't seem to enjoy at all.

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Because they like the game and want it to be succesful and enjoyable, so they complain and critisize it so it may improve. They know blind support won't do the development of this game any good.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Because they like the game and want it to be succesful and enjoyable, so they complain and critisize it so it may improve. They know blind support won't do the development of this game any good.

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The posters I am referring to over countless threads seem to show the opposite. That they don't seem to like the game at all - as in anything about it. Blind support won't help improve the game I agree. But complaining about everything in the game and trying to have SE change the fundamental design of the game isn't trying to improve the game. It's trying to change the game completely because you (general you) just don't like the game period. Just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by Arillyn

The posters I am referring to over countless threads seem to show the opposite. That they don't seem to like the game at all - as in anything about it. Blind support won't help improve the game I agree. But complaining about everything in the game and trying to have SE change the fundamental design of the game isn't trying to improve the game. It's trying to change the game completely because you (general you) just don't like the game period. Just my 2 cents.

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Fair, I can agree that some people will complain for the sake of complaining and won't be satisfied no matter what. I wouldn't consider this thread one of those though, it doesn't ask for a fundamental change but complains rather about lack of content.

I also believe people should be faster in pulling the trigger to stop playing this game. It's difficult because it's an MMO and you want to enjoy all progress you've made but I think you're in many cases better off canceling your sub and try out other games. Vote with your wallet, you can always return later and it's especially easy in this game to return after break by design.

All the budget went into the story I guess.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

All the budget went into the story I guess.

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Says the Hrothgar player. Staff worked overtime so you could wear those glasses ya know.

I sometimes have a similar feeling.


I enjoyed the start, the story and the music, everything we had to do at the beginning but patch after patch I feel a certain 'I expected more' feeling and I didn't really had that feeling at the start of the expansion.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Says the Hrothgar player. Staff worked overtime so you could wear those glasses ya know.

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I fail to see the relevance here.
I'm grateful for that, but it doesn't make it more acceptable that I can't wear a hat. Why did they have to work overtime to put glasses on a model in the first place? Just what is going on at SE that makes them so crunched for time??
It's baffling.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Fair, I can agree that some people will complain for the sake of complaining and won't be satisfied no matter what. I wouldn't consider this thread one of those though, it doesn't ask for a fundamental change but complains rather about lack of content.

I also believe people should be faster in pulling the trigger to stop playing this game. It's difficult because it's an MMO and you want to enjoy all progress you've made but I think you're in many cases better off canceling your sub and try out other games. Vote with your wallet, you can always return later and it's especially easy in this game to return after break by design.

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I don't think this thread falls in that category either. However, I would say that comparing a full expansion, with all patches out, to an expansion that just released its .25 patch to be a bit disingenuous. I wasn't expecting much out of this patch myself. It's a .x5 patch which those are small. I did expect more involvement with the battle relic weapons - not a big grind at this point, but yea I was expecting a bit more. (I did enjoy it though as I liked the solo instance and the fight. Was rather fun for me.)

And I agree if people genuinely don't like the game, go find something you do enjoy. It's silly in my mind to stay and play something you just don't like. If it is a fundamental way the game is designed and plays that you don't like, that game isn't for you (any game, not just this game).

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I fail to see the relevance here.
I'm grateful for that, but it doesn't make it more acceptable that I can't wear a hat. Why did they have to work overtime to put glasses on a model in the first place? Just what is going on at SE that makes them so crunched for time??
It's baffling.

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This is one of the only MMOs that update frequently and in a 'short' amount of time. Expansions coming out every 2 years.
With how many new races, jobs etc. they need to keep track of and update means more workload for them with future assets.

In the end this is just an assumption, and people like to joke "small indie company" but we really don't know what is going on. What we do know is that they did work overtime for the 2 new races to have glasses.

The storyline of Shadowbringers was fantastic. I was fully engrossed and really enjoyed it. But since then, yeah, my interest has waned. There’s just not enough “new” stuff to do and it feels like we’re getting less and less each new patch.

I just wonder, what if people stop complaining about lack of content comparing to previous expansion on forums, like white knights want and just go directly into media, making reviews, video on YouTube, talking about it on Twitter. This way more people who don't even visit forums will see, that not everything is sunshines and rainbows in this game and it has some problems.This will hit popularity and reputation of the game alot more, than just sharing concerns on the forum.
Maybe this will be more efficient way talking with SE directly, not to the people who don't even want to play the game they paying for, but rather go to the forum trying to explain that less dungeons are better for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Says the Hrothgar player. Staff worked overtime so you could wear those glasses ya know.

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If they had to work overtime, then it was clearly not within the budget. You're kinda proving his point.

I'm starting to get really confused with the storyline. Aetheric disturbance this, soul vessel that. There were lots of lore-based science that came out of nowhere and I had to take those at face value. I enjoyed main ShB story, but so far post ShB has been like... "mmk, whatever you say, fam."

Then again, please try to be fair when comparing the expansions. You listed full 3 & 4 features combined vs. 5.25 (approx. 50% of ShB). ShB doesn't and won't have equivalent features, but it brings new ones to the table as well. Let's try to look it objectively because when SB was recent, there were lots of complaints too.

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Originally Posted by Aeducan

I'm starting to get really confused with the storyline. Aetheric disturbance this, soul vessel that. There were lots of lore-based science that came out of nowhere and I had to take those at face value. I enjoyed main ShB story, but so far post ShB has been like... "mmk, whatever you say, fam."

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Aetheric disturbance has been a thing since ARR or maybe even 1.0 but at this point I don't really take any lore science too seriously. Fascinating but at the same time it's all fantasy nonsense to not worry about.

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Originally Posted by Satarn

If they had to work overtime, then it was clearly not within the budget. You're kinda proving his point.

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That too...

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Originally Posted by Satarn

If they had to work overtime, then it was clearly not within the budget. You're kinda proving his point.

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Have you heard of paid overtime?

I love this game and have enjoyed this expansion greatly. However, I do believe they should have waited to release the new races till they were finished. It's disheartening seeing new content come that I can't wear even if I spend the time in-game to earn it. For new players, I can only imagine the disappointment choosing one of these cool looking races only to find they can't wear a good deal of items in the game let alone change their hair in the Hrothgar's cases.