Savage is way to hard nerf it please!

Savage raiding in duty finder is always hard because you cannot progress as a group (each party resets progression), teamwork is non-existent as everyone worries about themselves, communication is usually horrible, conflicting strategies (Aka safe method with lower dps vs Parse method to get bigger dps numbers), people being impatient and leaving after a few wipes, people just being plain bad holding everyone back.

Savage raiding in a guild/premade where you eliminate all the above... it gets substantially easier.

Want it easier do not pug it, want to do hardcore mode run with randoms. Expect fights to take 5-10xs as long to clear using party finder. Not just savage but ex trials as well. The only savage that was not tuned well was Alexander 3 a the start of heavens ward since that they have been well designed in terms of difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Could you tell me, what is a sense of doing normal mode anymore than 1 time? It provides abysmal and pointless gear progression, you are far better buying crafted gear.
Dungeons are boring, so cut it in half and make it even more boring so barely anyone is doing them, what a great change really.

SE handles casual content really poorly, they made all this crafting content and changes and turned it into something that is no longer worth doing. This game isnt for casuals who seek combat content, it is either for those who has hundreds of hours for a game in a month or for those who barely even understand how their skills work.
For people like me there is literally nothing to do between capping tomestones and doing boring maps, i have way more stuff to do in other mmorpgs in end game as some of them do provide different levels of difficulty and even allows for equipment progression by doing it.

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That is entirely subjective. Even as someone who does Savage and Ultimate, I think spam Normal mode both for gear and simply to enjoy the fights without committing as much effort as if I did Savage. The whole purpose is an alternative. Crafted gear used to cost money, thus you had a free option. Of course, the changes to crafting have severely impacted profit margins. But that's a different topic.

Yes? Why would they continue to put resources into something people aren't enjoying? Having two boring dungeons is hardly any different than one when people aren't that interested in running dungeons altogether. Now you could argue they should improve dungeons but Yoshida has said numerous times they want to have easy content for casual players. I don't agree with his stance on that subject but then again, I don't agree with a lot of the dev team's decisions as of late.

Speaking of which. You won't get much argument from me that the midcore scene is woefully underappreciated. Hence why people keep asking for better longevity, Mythic+ and etc. Unfortunately, Shadowbringers seemed more geared towards appealing the casual demographic that only has a handful of hours each week and doesn't really care beyond the very basics. All I can really says is keep playing other games if you feel FFXIV isn't delivering anymore. Much as I, too, would like to see their philosophy change. It doesn't seem likely at this point.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Could you tell me, what is a sense of doing normal mode anymore than 1 time? It provides abysmal and pointless gear progression, you are far better buying crafted gear.
Dungeons are boring, so cut it in half and make it even more boring so barely anyone is doing them, what a great change really.

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I can tell you that some of the theorycrafters that make BiS sets actually recommend for some jobs to get Normal mode gear pieces over crafted. Example: DNC during Eden’s Gate took normal mode over pentamelded crafted for some pieces because the crafted has skill speed, and DNC is not a job that likes skill speed. Same for this tier. They recommended the gloves and a couple accessories to avoid skill speed from the crafted pieces.

Normal mode is also decent for people who want to gear alt jobs but don’t want to fork over gil for crafted gear.

The reason why both normal and crafted gear suffer right now is because of the AF gear. Same thing happened when Anemos released the AF gear.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Eureka is left in dirt and empty, Potd and hoh is no longer developed and max lvl on second is 70 which takes alot from combat.
Treasure maps is something but nothing in comparison to savage/ultimate.
On top of that no hildibrand, pvp left in dirt too and empty,



Could you tell me, what is a sense of doing normal mode anymore than 1 time? It provides abysmal and pointless gear progression, you are far better buying crafted gear.
Dungeons are boring, so cut it in half and make it even more boring so barely anyone is doing them, what a great change really.

SE handles casual content really poorly, they made all this crafting content and changes and turned it into something that is no longer worth doing. This game isnt for casuals who seek combat content, it is either for those who has hundreds of hours for a game in a month or for those who barely even understand how their skills work.
For people like me there is literally nothing to do between capping tomestones and doing boring maps, i have way more stuff to do in other mmorpgs in end game as some of them do provide different levels of difficulty and even allows for equipment progression by doing it.

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Could you tell me what sense doing savage more than once a week as hear proggessikn? its the same not just normal high end contents also only done once a week.

you realize that savage only added once in two patch right? Even for people doing high end contents there's bassically nothing to do atm except a weekly clear that end in 1 and half hour a week... the game is not made to be played 24/7 every week, yoshida said it himself... go play other games! Literally...

And too bad eureka is dead in your server because in mine it still active with BA running. Potd and HoH might not het updates but they added GND and DNC weapong and that a farming to do.

Game gets dumbed down every patch and it's still never enough.
I wish it would just go back to hw jobs and raids design, bads will always be bad, casualising the game for them has only made it worse.

The problem is the rest of the game doesn’t prepare people for Savage, even though Extreme is supposed to be the stepping stone, these themselves have become even easier in Shadowbringers. Memoria ex was so easy it could be learned and on farm in a few hours. Back when tsyuki ex was released it took longer because imo it was a harder fight.

If the game doesn’t challenge at all for normal content, it just increases the gulf to savage.

IMO this tier has been my toughest experience in pf since the fights require more group coordination and focus. E5s for example is extremely punishing to mistakes and can become a mess very quickly. E6s a little less so, but one death can often lead to enrage. Also many groups that come together don’t have enough dps even now this late into the cycle to beat enrage, which is really weird.

I’m not sure E5s should have been the first fight, possibly that should have been e7s.

I’ve heard e8s is really inconsistent in pf and friends have told me it’s often taken them a week on occasions to clear a normal weekly run.

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Originally Posted by Thoosa

E5s for example is extremely punishing to mistakes and can become a mess very quickly.

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When I pugged E5S as a tank it took me FOREVER to find a party that could get through the chain lightning.
I swapped to Paladin so I could heal people when they started dropping the ball to help prevent things from completely falling apart.
Again and again I'd get a group that could get to chain lightning only to impotently watch as someone fucked up and everyone died.
It took me literally 40 hours of pugging before I got that clear.

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Originally Posted by Thoosa

The problem is the rest of the game doesn’t prepare people for Savage, even though Extreme is supposed to be the stepping stone, these themselves have become even easier in Shadowbringers. Memoria ex was so easy it could be learned and on farm in a few hours. Back when tsyuki ex was released it took longer because imo it was a harder fight.

If the game doesn’t challenge at all for normal content, it just increases the gulf to savage.

IMO this tier has been my toughest experience in pf since the fights require more group coordination and focus. E5s for example is extremely punishing to mistakes and can become a mess very quickly. E6s a little less so, but one death can often lead to enrage. Also many groups that come together don’t have enough dps even now this late into the cycle to beat enrage, which is really weird.

I’m not sure E5s should have been the first fight, possibly that should have been e7s.

I’ve heard e8s is really inconsistent in pf and friends have told me it’s often taken them a week on occasions to clear a normal weekly run.

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I disagree. IMO the game actually has an appropriated difficulty curve, also, for an average player savage is suppose to last months. This expansion a friend started playing with me, and just by following the natural progression, he manage to clear the first turn of savage during 5.0, mind you FFXIV was his first MMO.

Real problem is not having a fixed group, if you have to do it with random players you are almost forced to do it the very moment it reset, the more you wait the worst the available player pool become, and this true for anything.

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Originally Posted by Cirque-it

And no this is not bait.
I am dead serious. This type of experience leads to players rage quitting, hating the game, taking long breaks, and eventually quitting. Especially for gamers knows as "Casual Completionists", and there are a LOT of those!

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Totally agree its difficulty is pretty silly. At least wow added another mode in the middle that contained the hardest mechanics but dont one shot you . I personally wont touch savage because all it does is break fcs for me. Someone in the static is always not it sync with the rest of the group being either better or worse than everyone else and it causes friction and messes up friendships

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Originally Posted by Paddycakes

Totally agree its difficulty is pretty silly. At least wow added another mode in the middle that contained the hardest mechanics but dont one shot you . I personally wont touch savage because all it does is break fcs for me. Someone in the static is always not it sync with the rest of the group being either better or worse than everyone else and it causes friction and messes up friendships

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Don't really get why both of you think mechanics are the only thing that makes savage difficult compared to normal. Even if they did add a middle difficulty with ONLY mechanics doing half damage and no rewards, the average playerbase still wouldn't be able to clear due to dps checks and lacking role awareness. Also, realistically, what good is a "hard mechanic" if you can just outright fail the entire thing and still progress?

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Speaking of which. You won't get much argument from me that the midcore scene is woefully underappreciated. Hence why people keep asking for better longevity, Mythic+ and etc. Unfortunately, Shadowbringers seemed more geared towards appealing the casual demographic that only has a handful of hours each week and doesn't really care beyond the very basics. All I can really says is keep playing other games if you feel FFXIV isn't delivering anymore. Much as I, too, would like to see their philosophy change. It doesn't seem likely at this point.

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Its under appreciated because every time the Devs push the floor up and ask players to play better, we get threads out the butt how "content to hard", "nerf now", etc. The casual base does make up a majority of players. There's no way to get around that. But if you want to see more midcore content, the only way you can get this accomplished is by gradually increasing the skill floor on the casual players. They do seem to do this, time to time. While the current relic weap fight has its flaws, it atleast accomplishes this a little bit - You want cool glamour gear, you better learn the fight. I do feel like people did rise the the challenge for it. And maybe thats what it takes - Link midcore content to glamour or other rewards that incentivize players to smash their heads against a wall to get it. Granted, the mechanics would have to be things that you couldnt be carried through, but thats more details.

Speaking of Midcore, you want to do midcore, EX and Last Raid Tier cover this. Go clear Titan. Youll have Echo best gear possible. That alone drastically reduces the challenge savage normally presents. Plus, you get a mount out of it. Is it ideal mid tier stuff? No. But its something.

This is actually not true because they can do it on Raid Finder in JP. So the question is... Why can't NA?