DWT is the clear sore thumb now with how redundant it is but overall this update to Summoner is a delight. Ruin IV stacks are finally functioning how they should and managing them alongside Egi-Assaults for optimal movement is the extra layer of gameplay that feels genuinely fresh and more exciting than the carpal tunnel simulator of previous Egi-Assaults.
SMN 5.1 Job adjustments
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10-30-2019, 11:46 PMShadowNyx3
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10-31-2019, 04:03 AMShannisaur
It feels horrendous, frankly. Slow and clunky. I have to ask why, on top of everything else smn has to do, we now need egi abilities clogging our GCDs. I also have to ask what the point in trance is now, as without the ability to weave egi assaults it feels awful and a waste of time.
I've been practicing and trying to figure out the best way to rotate it and gotta say, I'm not having fun. -
10-31-2019, 06:15 AMMikaru
The only real problems I had from the previous SMN skillset was that Egi Assault I/II changed to be animation locked and not being able to be used during/preventing casting spells which you could with do when they were still PAC. Now they take up a cast slot on there own.
TBH, despite what everyone seemed to appear to be complaining about the changes from SB to ShB. My cycle with SMN in ShB was almost exactly the same as my SB cycle for it.
You know, apart from no longer pet swapping between Garuda and Ifrit, Trance no longer requiring to be charged up, and the Aetherflow being moved to your Energy drain meaning using it before your Trance Cycle and mid point of your Fester/Aether usage cycle before renewing your Bio Miasma/Tri-disaster.
This new update for SMN though. Just seems like a serious step in the wrong direction for the Job, at least as far a the Egi skills go.
It would have made more sense to change the Egi skills, Aetherpact and Enkindle into command actions, which would go into a pet command slot that would be placed then in a usage order. Which would make it even easier to weave several skills as well getting rid of the pet skill clipping issue it has. -
10-31-2019, 06:22 AMDahlinea
Having a single Egi Assault and merging DWT with Summon Bahamut would have solved a lot of the problems... but I guess it was too much for them to do that.
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10-31-2019, 09:03 AMAdamWarlockeThis would have fixed the length of time for a full rotation. ^Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlinea
Those dev twits behind SMN either really HATE the class/job or have no idea what they're doing. Do they even actually LISTEN to feedback from the last time? -
10-31-2019, 09:15 AMRoda
I freaking love the change to egi assaults.
I'm just currently trying to reprogram my brain around these habits i've had to develop to survive as doubleweave smn @@ -
10-31-2019, 09:41 AMMyon88
The changes to egi assaults are very welcome and a much needed buff to quality of life.
Egi assaults originally felt bad not only because they were ogcds that required weaving, but also because what they gave you in return for that effort was minuscule. I'm sure if they did 1000 potency people wouldn't mind having to play the piano as much, but not only did you have to lose dps by casting ruin 2 in order to weave them, the actual damage they did was pathetic going as low as 50 potency for ifrit's egi assaults (due to hidden pet scaling). You did get a ruin 4, but it was negated by the effort needed to interact with the system making the whole thing feel like zero-sum busywork.
The 5.1 changes have completely flipped this equation on its head. They actually do a respectable amount of damage now (they have to, as a gcd they now replace a ruin spellcast, so that ruin damage must be added to it as well), and ifrit and titan-egi's hidden scaling factors have been raised to match that used by garuda and all our enkindle abilities. This is the "All attacks from arcanist and summoner pets are now categorized as magic attacks" from the patch notes. It makes comparing potency numbers between the different egis much easier, and frankly a job as complicated as summoner could benefit from as much under-the-hood streamlining like this as possible.
But the most important change of all is that they are now on the gcd.
This has significant ramifications for mobility because you can now use egi assault gcds to move freely at will, instead of casting a weak ruin 2. It still gives you the ruin 4 proc, which means 1 cast of egi assault is actually 2 gcd's worth of mobility.
When they were ogcds, having two charges just added to the busywork and clunk factor. But having charges as gcds is a huge boon as charges on valuable tools like this are precisely what you want, black mages know this well with xenoglossy. Instead of being weak and frenetic, the gameplay is now slower and more decisive. It gives the summoner rotation an element of agency it has been sorely lacking since the start of the expansion, and while I still miss aetherflow, egi assaults at least are in a far better spot now than at the start of the expansion. -
10-31-2019, 11:27 AMDyvid
Egi overall damage is so much better now. They carry weight in a fight rather than being just a Ruin IV proc.
DWT feels outdated at this point and SE really need to look at going the FBT route here in which it summons Demi--B and changes Outburst and Ruin III.
Ifrit still needs a gap closer on Crimson Cyclone and Flaming Crush should just be a single target.
Overall these change are good but I still think the flow needs work. -
10-31-2019, 03:27 PMKiteless
Anyone have any suggestions for other DPS jobs that flow similarly to how SMN did in HW? I just want some perspectives on alternate DPS jobs to play instead of SMN as it is now.
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10-31-2019, 04:00 PMRodaBlackmage is the only one that comes to mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiteless
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10-31-2019, 04:15 PMAdamWarlockeDWT is now just a refresher for tridisaster once you're able to get to the point to be able to unlock and USE tridisaster. I've also noticed how brain-dead Demi-Bahamut is when you're stunned or immobilized, I WISH to high heaven that Demi-Bahamut can auto-attack it's abilities instead of just attacking when you're attacking. If the normal egis can auto-attack, why not effing Demi-Bahamut? It's a waste to summon him and suddenly you're either silenced/stunned/immobilized at the worst time possible and he just becomes a glorified hood ornament until he despawns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyvid
I also wish DWT automatically SUMMONS Demi-Bahamut at the end of it's countdown - make it actually WORTH using than doing an extra step to manually summon Demi-B. -
10-31-2019, 04:20 PMdinnertime
Playing it more....I don't think the Egi Assault change isn't bad. It's really good. Personally, it's just something to get used to.
But yes, the problem about it is how it affects the job's abilities, particularly Dreadwyrm Trance. It's more detached than ever because it doesn't synergize with it anymore, which makes it pretty redundant (I end up ending DWT immediately so I can spend my Egi Assault stacks, but not sure if I should really be doing that.), then there's the annoying part of Egi skills being locked from Demi summons, but overall it gives us so much mobility that SMN is barely a caster at this point.
I really hope they do something about these discrepancies.
Both Black Mage and Red Mage are good, but there's a distinct lack of instant casts and ogcds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiteless
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10-31-2019, 05:22 PMMiziliti
The 5.1 changes are... pretty interesting. The GCD egi assaults are better than I expected. Was playing in neir raid and about 95% of the time I was running around because there's no need to hard cast any R3 besides dots when tri-disaster is down. Juggling between DWT, bahamut, and phoenix trance with all those instant spells feels good, but it actually feels weird to hard cast R3 now. I feel like I should move egi assaults 1 and 2 to my 1 and 2 keys and throw R3 somewhere else. They should increase R4 stacks to 6 or more because hard casting R3 in demi-bahamut after 4 R4s is a little annoying. Overall, the 5.1 changes are something I'm okay with.
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11-01-2019, 03:38 AMPalladiamors
I love them, myself. I love that Egi's are back to having some actual agency in a fight, and I love that we now seem to be commanding our mini-primal to do actual damage instead of piddling amounts. Still working through the GCD changes, but so far blowing them off first, then DWT'ing, then spamming Ruin 3, then Bahamut and burning your Ruin 4 stacks is working out well for me along with, y'know, weaving the OGCD's that we have. After that initial rush it evens out pretty well so that you've either got your assaults on cooldown during Demi-phases or you have at least one stack of them on cooldown so they aren't wasted.
Its a band-aid fix sure, but I am enjoying it. -
11-01-2019, 03:48 AMWolfius
Love the new class so far with the changes, having the pet to put its weight on damage and not just a filler, so far I changed it as my main from AST, still trying to get used to the new opener I was accostumed to pre patch openers with the fillers (doing the EG instead ruins on DWT)