do you think this Wall to Wall pulling (in roulettes)is hurting the healer population

My personal reason for not main healing is simple. Its boring. Wall to wall pulls is the only time i feel like i'm needed. Normal trash pulls i spend 90% of my time smashing stone/whatever it upgraded to and the 10% is me casting regen and maybe a shield if assize didn't get them back up. I typically waste lilies just so i can get that blood lily.
Its even worse on the other healers. I used to LOVE ast and then they ruined the cards. More boring, a simple cast blue on melee cast pink on range. They could of taken ast in 50 different directions if the haste card was a problem, they chose the boring path of mediocrity.
I don't play SCH as its just a tumor on my summoner, so i really can't comment on how well or bad they're doing.

I can't blame them for not making another healer. It would just be another half baked stale bread.

I'm not even sure how to salvage it right now. Increasing monster hp/damage dealt probably isn't the answer since it absolutely mandates the best of geared tanks and takes away the ability to salvage a bad situation by having one of the dps take a few hits since they would just get one shot if the tank can't even stand up to them plus once geared we're back at step 1. Less trash pulls and more mini bosses might work but that means the dungeons would just be walking simulators with a series of stages at a carnival.

I would like to have something to do that isn't spamming my attack button, but still not always stressing out that the tank might get 2 shot or that tank buster might 1hit ko since currently thats the only thing that does damage enough to care about.
Why not bring back protect but have it be used like Yshtola and Louisoix do to stop the next attack against the party, none of this boring % damage mitigation, they have their uses but its boring to use and far less impactful. More spells that actually do thinks that arn't heal X or Mitigate Y. AST had the right idea with cards. SCH could of had something good before they abandoned summoning.

Nah, I'd say it's the Shadowbringers changes more than anything.

I personally hate big pulls. Makes me feel like a freaking kite. So I'd be one cool with someone going small. I can adjust, which is something that everyone says they want healers to do, except when healers don't adjust the way they want them to.

I've loved healing since ARR and won't stop. As for tanks dying and blaming the healer, eh. It's not all just on the healer. The tank needs to survive the pull and utilize their CDs and the dps needs to be able to put out high dps to melt the mobs down. And the healer needs to know how to utilize their abilities. If one of those areas is lacking, then there's probably going to be trouble.

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Originally Posted by Saidosha

"It's not fast enough for me, so it's wrong!" is what I was getting at, which the true indicator is whether or not the group succeeds. I get it, though, doing whatever faster means you can do something else faster still. Unfortunately, there just tends to be too many variables at play to guarantee you'll get that perfect run no matter how much you try to downplay the game's difficulty. If one feels inclined to cry about PUGs not meeting their standards, either politely try to teach if it's possible in the moment or don't PUG and make your own groups so you have greater control of the field.

MMOs aren't the sorts of games to be playing if you're obsessed with not losing a few minutes here and there due to outside factors.

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The point isn't the speed of completion, it's whether or not it's fun. Playing a healer just isn't fun for many people anymore. Personally, I don't find healing or tanking fun anymore. There's no reason to change stances or worry about threat as a tank, which was a big part of the fun in the min/max. No reason to worry about someone dying (even on massive pulls) anymore as a healer on top of having generally nothing to do because all the DPS rotations are 2 buttons. It makes everything very uninteresting for both of those roles when you run the same dungeons over and over and over with no variance. You can basically play this game with your eyes closed and perform perfectly fine.

FFXIV is a unique MMO in this respect because it's probably the most heavily scripted MMO out there by far. I'd personally consider FFXIV an "arcade-style" MMO even.

HW had all of that stuff but people complained about tank/healer DPS and that started all the major changes to combat and whatnot. Most of the community brought this upon yourselves. They listen to you, they make changes, you try them out, and you are massively disappointed that it didn't turn out the way you expect and now you want it simplified, they then do this in ShB.. and here we are, things dumbed down/simplified, but not in the way you expected it -.- Really, stop messing the game up, and make up your minds on what you want.

I dont think so, healers always complaint since i play this game that they are expected to do dmg because they have nothing to do 50% of their time. So i think it's a good thing that they have now the oportunity to focus on their primary job. If the healer has time to do dmg than there are simply not enough enemys and the tank should pull more.

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Originally Posted by Missbone

I dont think so, healers always complaint since i play this game that they are expected to do dmg because they have nothing to do 50% of their time. So i think it's a good thing that they have now the oportunity to focus on their primary job. If the healer has time to do dmg than there are simply not enough enemys and the tank should pull more.

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Healers are expected to do damage, while wall-to-wall pulling in level 80 dungeons. So healers should pretty much always have some DPS going.

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Originally Posted by Missbone

I dont think so, healers always complaint since i play this game that they are expected to do dmg because they have nothing to do 50% of their time. So i think it's a good thing that they have now the oportunity to focus on their primary job. If the healer has time to do dmg than there are simply not enough enemys and the tank should pull more.

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If you can't DPS as a healer while the tank pulls wall to wall, the tank is either undergeared and not using CDs, or you're not doing something right.

That moment when I have to resort to Cure II spam because literally everything else is on CD and the tank won't survive a single gcd without healing...

When I'm healing and my tank is small-pulling I consider it an insult. Big pulls is the only time I actually feel involved in the fight. Maybe not for a good reason, but at least that gives me a reason to pay attention.

Tanks who do big pulls and fail to rotate their cooldowns are what might make them annoying, but if the tank has at least basic understanding of how to manage their own survival, healing them is still effortless. Because in Shadowbringers healers have received more healing tools than we know what to do with, while our dps rotations (especially Scholar) got reduced to a 1-button spam.
And honestly I think the latter is the real reason healers avoid dungeons. I know that's why I do. SCH used to be my go-to roulette job in SB but now GNB has taken its spot. I'll take confronting my worst tanxiety nightmares in daily roulettes over Art of Spam, clunky unresponsive pet weaving and being reminded how well designed it used to be once. With all the DoTs at my disposal, I used to have flexibility, it didn't feel like such a loss to use a GCD heal when I had to, I didn't feel like I had to Broil/Art all the time. And there was actually a rotation with uptime and timings to take into consideration. Now, every GCD not spent spamming a nuke is a significant loss because there's proportionally far less damage passively ticking in the background and only 1 DoT to refresh once in a blue moon.

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Originally Posted by Rasikko

HW had all of that stuff but people complained about tank/healer DPS and that started all the major changes to combat and whatnot. Most of the community brought this upon yourselves. They listen to you, they make changes, you try them out, and you are massively disappointed that it didn't turn out the way you expect and now you want it simplified, they then do this in ShB.. and here we are, things dumbed down/simplified, but not in the way you expected it -.- Really, stop messing the game up, and make up your minds on what you want.

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Its kind of this really. Wow has gone through the same growing pains.

I don't think wall to wall pulling has anything to do with a lack of healing interest in Shadowbringers. Healers got the short end of the stick when it came to job design. For a lot of people healing simply isn't fun anymore.