New Mog Station items?

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Originally Posted by Rokke

I mean, it's not like EA went from 0 to 60 overnight. Babysteps got us to where the industry is today and now everyone is used to being nickel and dime'd.

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Sure but of all the current MMOs I've played --And I've played a bunch-- FFXIV has the most benign shop by a wide margin.

Unlike Black Desert it doesn't sell power.

Unlike Elder Scrolls it isn't pushed hard with every interesting thing being in the shop.

Unlike Guild Wars 2...Okay, I haven't checked in on this one in years but I've heard the Gem Store is the only place for good looking gear skins.

Unlike World Of WarCraft it isn't absurdly expensive.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

Sure but of all the current MMOs I've played --And I've played a bunch-- FFXIV has the most benign shop by a wide margin.

Unlike Black Desert it doesn't sell power.

Unlike Elder Scrolls it isn't pushed hard with every interesting thing being in the shop.

Unlike Guild Wars 2...Okay, I haven't checked in on this one in years but I've heard the Gem Store is the only place for good looking gear skins.

Unlike World Of WarCraft it isn't absurdly expensive.

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My point is that a cash shop is a cash shop. Once upon a time Mogstation only sold old event items and Odin. Then came exclusive outfits. Then came music rolls, mounts, level boosts, retainer level boosts, extra chocobo saddle bag space, etc. Baby steps -> accepted "norm"

I buy stuff from the cash shop when I like something released, but imo its Kinda Weird to hope something comes with an extra fee attached.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

My point is that a cash shop is a cash shop. Once upon a time Mogstation only sold old event items and Odin. Then came exclusive outfits. Then came music rolls, mounts, level boosts, retainer level boosts, extra chocobo saddle bag space, etc. Baby steps -> accepted "norm"

I buy stuff from the cash shop when I like something released, but imo its Kinda Weird to hope something comes with an extra fee attached.

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I doubt there EVER be something that we could call the P2W items in the shop for one SOLID reason: EA and SE are 2 absolutely different companies from different backgrounds and countryes. And Japan, by far, have some good laws (as far as I know) agains P2W content. Ther may be one day when we will see some gacha-mounts or something like that, but for now - IT'S AN OK SHOP FOR A GREAT GAME AND COMPANY, STOP COMPLAYNING.

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Originally Posted by Rakshazi

I doubt there EVER be something that we could call the P2W items in the shop for one SOLID reason: EA and SE are 2 absolutely different companies from different backgrounds and countryes. And Japan, by far, have some good laws (as far as I know) agains P2W content. Ther may be one day when we will see some gacha-mounts or something like that, but for now - IT'S AN OK SHOP FOR A GREAT GAME AND COMPANY, STOP COMPLAYNING.

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I don't think you've read the post of mine you quoted, as I've not mentioned anything about p2w in relation to SE or EA.
BUT HEY, CAPSLOCK.
LOOK NOW ITS BOLD CAPSLOCK.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Endless summer stuff is on the mogstation, and I literally just bought it!

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Me too.
I dye the Top with the Mogshop Black and it gets grey not black.
If i waer it with the Viera Race Armor, i can see that it is not black.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

I don't think you've read the post of mine you quoted, as I've not mentioned anything about p2w in relation to SE or EA.
BUT HEY, CAPSLOCK.
LOOK NOW ITS BOLD CAPSLOCK.

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It was an answer not only for you but those who above too. Caps are just MY own way to bring attention to the key words in the message. Bear with it or ignore it, I will not change. Wan't not, will not.

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Originally Posted by Edax

I remember hearing all these excuses for EA and Battlefront. It's always the consumer's problem for some reason.
If they introduce P2W raid gear, it'll be the same excuses: OPTIONAL, you don't want - you don't buy. SE not a charity. ect ect. And with all this shilling by the masses, of course they are going to introduce P2W gear to the Mogstation because SE isn't charity.

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/facepalm

I swear to God some people just type a stream of consciousness.

Times have changed. It isn't unusual at all for businesses to provide optional products in addition to the base product that they're offering. Quite a lot of people are perfectly fine with optional items being sold. At this point, it appears to just be a very vocal minority who are opposed to such things. Many of whom appear unwilling to do anything beyond blame consumers and developers instead of putting their money where their mouths are and walking away completely from the business practices they find so supposedly abhorrent in the first place.

In addition, let's not pretend as if the cost for game development has not increased over time even though the monthly subscription fee has remained roughly the same price.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Many of whom appear unwilling to do anything beyond blame consumers and developers instead of putting their money where their mouths are and walking away completely from the business practices they find so supposedly abhorrent in the first place.

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I wish I could walk away from such business practices, but they are everywhere in the video game industry now. I have walked away from a lot of franchises that became P2W like Halo, which was a bitter pill to swallow. If you asked me 10 years ago if Halo multiplayer would become P2W and I would have laughed myself silly, but I know better now. With the addition of P2W loot boxes everywhere like in Battlefront, CoD and Battlefield, I've effectively stopped playing competitive multiplayer completely. Now I don't want to walk away from FFXIV too. Thankfully they aren't P2W yet.

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Originally Posted by Rakshazi

And Japan, by far, have some good laws (as far as I know) agains P2W content.

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OMFG what the hell is this? Japan is the main consumer of P2W. That's why mobile games are so popular here.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Times have changed. It isn't unusual at all for businesses to provide optional products in addition to the base product that they're offering. Quite a lot of people are perfectly fine with optional items being sold. At this point, it appears to just be a very vocal minority who are opposed to such things. Many of whom appear unwilling to do anything beyond blame consumers and developers instead of putting their money where their mouths are and walking away completely from the business practices they find so supposedly abhorrent in the first place.

In addition, let's not pretend as if the cost for game development has not increased over time even though the monthly subscription fee has remained roughly the same price.

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Microtransactions are out of control specifically in the mobile space, where they literally use psychology to nickle and dime players. However, without the addition of microtransactions, we would likely see a price increase for games, and less investment overall. However, you can always say that the increased investment just means more money making schemes; games designed around the cash shop. Take for example the GTA Online casino that has recently been implemented. Players can apparently pay real money to gamble, with no real return. It has been banned in several countries.

The mogstation on the other hand is relatively benign, and doesn't even seem to be that heavily focused by SE, new, interesting items are very sparse. The fact that SE apparently returns the money made from the mogstation directly into the game is a very nice thing (should be expected). It doesn't matter how many people allegedly "boycott" cash shops or games in their entirety, publishers have shown to directly target children, and the select few "whales", and there are conferences where they admit as such (they won't admit to targeting children, but you know they do). The only way real change will happen in this space is probably, unfortunately, with government intervention, and that comes with it's own share of troubles. Maybe even worse overall.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Times have changed. It isn't unusual at all for businesses to provide optional products in addition to the base product that they're offering. Quite a lot of people are perfectly fine with optional items being sold. At this point, it appears to just be a very vocal minority who are opposed to such things. Many of whom appear unwilling to do anything beyond blame consumers and developers instead of putting their money where their mouths are and walking away completely from the business practices they find so supposedly abhorrent in the first place.

In addition, let's not pretend as if the cost for game development has not increased over time even though the monthly subscription fee has remained roughly the same price.

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I pointed this out earlier. I said that our monthly sub gets us ton of ingame obtainable outfits and armors. For only $12.99 a month for the basic sub (what I used to pay for EQ when I played in 2001), or $14.99 a month for regular access. And I mentioned that some of us pay that much for a single mount or outfit, and know people who would spend hundreds of dollars in cosmetics. And explained that for every outfit they make purchaseable, they get dozens that are available normally in game.

Their reaction is to compare Mogstation to Assassins and Human Trafficking.

Literally that's the opposition. It should NOT be taken seriously, it should not even be debated. They are trolls or someone who is severally emotionally out of wack in this discussion.

At the end of the day, the discussion is mostly irrelevant. My wallet speaks far louder than these futiles cries of using mogstation as evil.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Its their God given right to use their money how they wish. No one has any right to tell them they are wrong. Period.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Their reaction is to compare Mogstation to Assassins and Human Trafficking.

Literally that's the opposition.

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Nice strawman. You claim it's God's given right to use your own money how you wish, but of course you only meant the Mogstation.
Using your own money how you wish might actually be unethical. Imagine that.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Nice strawman. You claim it's God's given right to use your own money how you wish, but of course you only meant the Mogstation.
Using your own money how you wish might actually be unethical depending on what you buy.

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Unless they implied or have said at any point that breaking the law is OK their statement is true, it is anyone's "God" given right to spend their money however they wish, if it can legally be bought they are free to buy it. You're the only one who's tried really, really hard to twist that statement to mean they somehow support hired hitmen and human trafficking.
This is a video game, no lives are on the line, no one is being hurt if people want to spend money on virtual items then they can and it is in no way wrong EA pushed that far past its breaking point and eventually the gaming community pushed back, but this has nothing to do with the Mog station, it sells very little and nothing I could consider offensive.

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Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

This is a video game, no lives are on the line, no one is being hurt if people want to spend money on virtual items

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This is simply false. There's a reason the video game industry is under international investigation over gambling. Lives are being destroyed because of those that enable the predatory system. Baby steps, it gets worse with time. Like the boiling frog fable. How people spend their money will affect the future. Legal ≠ Ethical

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Originally Posted by Rokke

My point is that a cash shop is a cash shop. Once upon a time Mogstation only sold old event items and Odin. Then came exclusive outfits. Then came music rolls, mounts, level boosts, retainer level boosts, extra chocobo saddle bag space, etc. Baby steps -> accepted "norm"

I buy stuff from the cash shop when I like something released, but imo its Kinda Weird to hope something comes with an extra fee attached.

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Originally Posted by Edax

This is simply false. There's a reason the video game industry is under international investigation over gambling. Lives are being destroyed because of those that enable the predatory system. Baby steps, it gets worse with time. Like the boiling frog fable. How people spend their money will affect the future.

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But the Mog station dose none of those things currently your whole argument is its bad because it COULD be, by that logic everything is bad because it has the potential to be. I should be put in jail because humans can commit murder and I should be stopped before I have the chance the Mogstaion is bad because of the things other cash shops do and it COULD do them.

To me the Mogstation simply sits there and dose little and nothing I find offensive, the gaming industry is under investigation for gambling but what dose that have to do with 14? Again all you're saying is it COULD do it! But it's not and until it dose that holds no weight. I have no problem with spending money on this game, it dose nothing to make me want to other than I enjoy it and wish to support it. Not every game is sitting there trying to bleed it's playerbase in the most heinous way possible and I'm not going to condemn every cash shop or company that tries to make money on the actions of those who are.

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Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

But the Mog station dose none of those things currently your whole argument is its bad because it COULD be, by that logic everything is bad because it has the potential to be. I should be put in jail because humans can commit murder and I should be stopped before I have the chance the Mogstaion is bad because of the things other cash shops do and it COULD do them.

To me the Mogstation simply sits there and dose little and nothing I find offensive, the gaming industry is under investigation for gambling but what dose that have to do with 14? Again all you're saying is it COULD do it! But it's not and until it dose that holds no weight. I have no problem with spending money on this game, it dose nothing to make me want to other than I enjoy it and wish to support it. Not every game is sitting there trying to bleed it's playerbase in the most heinous way possible and I'm not going to condemn every cash shop or company that tries to make money on the actions of those who are.

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You are right, I am engaging in the slippery slope fallacy. I fear what the Mogstation could be. When I see a thread pop up with someone hoping for an item that comes with an extra fee, I get worried.

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Originally Posted by Edax

This is simply false. There's a reason the video game industry is under international investigation over gambling. Lives are being destroyed because of those that enable the predatory system. Baby steps, it gets worse with time. Like the boiling frog fable. How people spend their money will affect the future. Legal ≠ Ethical

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The person you tried to quote in your defense, did you not know the items now in Mog Station, if I remember properly, were all asked for by the players? These things you I am assuming are listing as leading to predatory in nature down the line.

Your argument has been shut down many times, and you keep posting the same stance again and again, and it's easy to shut down again and again. Games in general are not under investigation for one if you've been following the government bodies of the UK and United States. The UK, sadly, even said Loot Boxes were not gambling, which to me I feel it is gambling, but they do not since no payout. In the United States, it's at a stand still so far on Loot Boxes, other countries have claimed it as gambling though.

Neither of these are in any relation to the Mog Station though. The only boosted item is the Fenrir if you're not in Shadowbringer. The rest are items that players asked for when it comes to the boosts etc. The outfits again were a player requested thing, something that is oddly rarely updated as well.

And again, none of these are gambling nor loot boxes with random chance, even in the countries that say Loot Boxes are. If you want to debate and place an argument on the field, you really need to come up with something else to stand on, backpedaling and repeating former arguments doesn't lead to fresh debate, but just a rehash like this post is, to remind you that your argument is currently in the wrong.

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Originally Posted by Edax

You are right, I am engaging in the slippery slope fallacy. I fear what the Mogstation could be. When I see a thread pop up with someone hoping for an item that comes with an extra fee, I get worried.

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And...there we have it. The heart of it all. Do I worry about what the cash shop could be? A little, sure. Do I also want more items that are obtainable in game vs the Mogstation? Of course I do. But so long as they keep to what they're doing now it's not very worrisome. If for whatever reason they make the game P2W somewhere down the road I will happily eat my own words. But I truly believe it won't come to that.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

The person you tried to quote in your defense, did you not know the items now in Mog Station, if I remember properly, were all asked for by the players? These things you I am assuming are listing as leading to predatory in nature down the line.

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And no doubt players will ask for P2W too. Some players want to shove their wealth in other player's faces.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

Neither of these are in any relation to the Mog Station though. The only boosted item is the Fenrir if you're not in Shadowbringer. The rest are items that players asked for when it comes to the boosts etc. The outfits again were a player requested thing, something that is oddly rarely updated as well.

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I have not claimed otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

And again, none of these are gambling nor loot boxes with random chance, even in the countries that say Loot Boxes are. If you want to debate and place an argument on the field, you really need to come up with something else to stand on, backpedaling and repeating former arguments doesn't lead to fresh debate, but just a rehash like this post is, to remind you that your argument is currently in the wrong.

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Remember that I am replying to "no one is being hurt if people want to spend money on virtual items". Loot boxes are virtual items and people are being hurt by them. We have to be vigilant when it comes to the virtual market because it is driven by greed. Advantages are now for sale on the Mogstation. The Fenrir you mentioned. Is that the only advantage that will be for sale in the coming years? Probably not.

Don't care. They need to put the cloud mount and the far eastern outfit in there. And I'll be darned if anyone tries to claw it out of my grasp, we all know the only way it's getting recycled is through the cash shop.

They see me whaling, they hatinggggggg

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Originally Posted by Edax

And no doubt players will ask for P2W too. Some players want to shove their wealth in other player's faces.



I have not claimed otherwise.



Remember that I am replying to "no one is being hurt if people want to spend money on virtual items". Loot boxes are virtual items and people are being hurt by them. We have to be vigilant when it comes to the virtual market because it is driven by greed. Advantages are now for sale on the Mogstation. The Fenrir you mentioned. Is that the only advantage that will be for sale in the coming years? Probably not.

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I understand your fear, but if you focus on it, concentrate on it, you're going to suffer for it. I surely don't go to bed in fear I may not wake up the next day, I'd go mad for sure and let my emotions destroy me.

It causes no harm, and thus far has never led to anything harmful. I'm not want to then assume later it will, due to the track record of being a smooth simple and rather tiny shop. And since the profits go 100% to the FFXIV team compared to our Subs, I see no reason why I shouldn't invest into the game I enjoy if find something I want in it.