Letter from the Producer LXII

He spoke about tank balance because main and off tank exist, but there's no such thing as an 'offhealer'. Take it as you may, I'm also a bit disappointed, but if this means WHM will get some love to compensate, I think it's worth the uhh...sacrifice.

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Originally Posted by Syphin_Polaris

I completely disagree with your stance on the races and their explanation regarding them, because it seemed very reasonable to me.

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It seems reasonable if you take everything he said as fact. In actuality, though, all races except roegadyn and lalafell share a body - they aren't unique. Even roegadyn share a body with hrothgar now.

Then there's this line: "FFXIV has around ten thousand equippable items already implemented, all of which must be manually modified by our designers". That's a blatant lie. A large number of items share models, and an even larger amount are racially universal, like accessories and weapons.

I'm not suggesting that no or little work goes into new races (even though this game has cut corners massively on races), but I don't appreciate being lied to about it being more work than it is. If the actual amount of work required is too much work, then just say it's too much work.

It didn't put to rest anything, in my opinion. It's basically the same stuff reiterated as before, they just went into detail of all the resources they'd have to go through (which was obvious to some, but not to others). For me, this letter just kind of put salt in the wound. I'm upset about no male viera, yeah, but I wouldn't have gotten nearly as upset as I did if Dancer (which was healer in FFXI) was a healer - or if we had any healer class honestly, and/or if BLU wasn't such a shitshow.

These were things I was really looking forward to, really hoping for, but my wish was just corrupted with excuse after excuse. I honestly think the excuses in regards to healer are the most offending ones. I'm not as mad about viera/hrothgar as I am about healer. Sure, there's only two range DPS, but we have like 30 something DPS all together (including non-job classes) and DPS class as a whole the only class type - minus newest tank - that has been added in the game in the past four years. As someone who mained heal since the game first came out basically, I tend to get burnt out of classes after playing them for so long. I've been maining AST for the past four years, WHM for the past two before that, and I play SCH on an alt. This past year, I've actually levelled up BRD to main cuz I am that burnt out of current healing classes.

That being said, I do plan on making DNC my new main class because ranged DPS is my thing and I still like DPS-Dancer's concept. I'm just massively disappointed in the impending six year wait for a new healer class. (If they need help with ideas for heals, they could host a contest... ha ha... ha... /would join and never joins contests.)

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Originally Posted by Eloah

I think they misunderstood what the actual request was.

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No I have seen some threads here asking to be able to play characters who are clearly young teenagers or even younger. Chances are it happens in the other language forums as well.

I don't ever see SE doing this. They would have to increase the age rating because let's face it; the WoL is constantly killing people, not just unintelligent monsters. Sure these people are the bad guys but anyone who knows about the Garlean Empire knows a lot of their soldiers are also victims of their conquest. The WoL has definitely killed a lot of people who would rather be doing anything but fight under the Garlean banner. Then there's the fact that you find out that one of the scions is the product of rape. You meet more nps who allude to this sort of thing going on. It's just messed up to have a child be leading the charge in a story like this.

Don't get me wrong, it could make for a very interesting story especially if the msq changed a bit if you played a child. But the age rating would have to go up to reflect the wrongness and the tragedy of a child shouldering so much burden and having to mature far beyond their years to deal with it.

Never mind how SE had to crack down on some very inappropriate rp involving lalafells. It would only get worse if players could actually look like real children.

Also a lot of gear would have to be reworked for them. I don't think SE want children running around in bikinis or sexy bunny outfits.

Yay they were able to make glasses work and thanks for the sneak peak to pld and sch ShB outfits if not just the tops and gloves of them. A little sad that not a whole lot of new info is in there since he's said those points in other interviews. I am glad he is aware of how problematic it would be to put in younger models.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

Talks about adding a 4th tank to help with the balance but then says cannot add a 4th healer for the sake of the balance.

Then talks about how there's only 2 ranged melee DPS so they feel they are doing good by adding another ignoring the fact that idk theres a ton of DPS!? Who cares if there's only two melee ranged, it's all under an umbrella.

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My favourite part is how point 3 on the jobs, the point that's "The Present Balance Between Tanks and Healers", starts off with the wonderful:

"Since we currently have four melee DPS jobs, we decided to hold off on developing another and instead added a new tank."

Like, really. They were looking at the terrible balance of Tanks and Healers and then considered adding another mDPS meaning that we were actually close to getting another 2 DPS jobs for the second expansion in a row.

SE really, really, really, really need to hire someone who mains Tank and someone who mains Healer to work in the design/balance team.

The current group of DPS mains just have no grasp on the other roles at all.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Yay they were able to make glasses work and thanks for the sneak peak to pld and sch ShB outfits if not just the tops and gloves of them.

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I'm pretty sure those are both the Lv70 outfits.

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Originally Posted by Taybat

I do find there gender races decision very odd. trying to please everybody and instead pleased no one

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I was surprised and pleased with the announcement of Hrothgar.

That picture makes me excited to go cat daddy.

I do not care about the new species (or "races" as people wrongly call them; races are more "Dunesfolk" and "Plainsfolk" while the species is "Lalafell"...) as I am already what I enjoy as my avatar/alter ego:
A noble and educated midget.
But I don't believe this "10,000 items have to be changed to fit" stuff. The game's models are all in a certain boundary. There are no super tall or super small versions of a species. There are no features out of a certain range. I am sure there is some sort of "formula" available to batch-stretch or batch-fix much of the stuff.

I mean, they can do it for "10,000 items" for already 5 species/"races", but a 6th and 7th is suddenly "absolutely super duper impossible" even with the "tremendous amount of money" we actually throw at the game via game purchases and expansion pack purchases, full-price subscription, high-priced cash shop and overpriced merchandise shop?

I don't buy that. Just my two scents, but I smell bullocks in that part.

Sincerely,
https://imgur.com/kXOfaq9.png

People ask me why I like XIV so much, it's hard to express it's things like this.

Yoshi is the best and golly I'd like to be protected by that Viera.

I feel bad for the character development team, they were probably already working really long days more often than not, and then they went and used their free time to make headgear work on the new races.

True troopers if I've ever seen any.

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Originally Posted by Jollyy5

I feel bad for the character development team, they were probably already working really long days more often than not, and then they went and used their free time to make headgear work on the new races.

True troopers if I've ever seen any.

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Yeah a lot of times in Japan they work insane hours =(

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Originally Posted by Jollyy5

I feel bad for the character development team, they were probably already working really long days more often than not, and then they went and used their free time to make headgear work on the new races.

True troopers if I've ever seen any.

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They've made it pretty clear how difficult it is to add two genders/races. One can hope we'll see additional ones at some point but it's certainly not an easy undertaking. Can't wait for the benchmark.

I'm going to support the devs cause they are working hard! They never said no male viera or female hrothgar. They specifically said "As you play through Shadowbringers, you’ll learn that both male Viera and female Hrothgar exist. While you won’t meet any in person, if we developers can find a way to address the various problems which are preventing us from implementing them, then perhaps someday you’ll be able to see them for yourself. I want to be clear that this does not mean it will eventually happen, and that I cannot make any promises at this time. I hope you will understand and bear with us" That just goes to show they are looking for a way to implement them, just as of late they cannot make any promises. Which I understand. I do not understand what is so hard to understand. It almost as annoying as those who think artist can do a fully colored drawing in 15 mins........

I don't think he really put anything to rest, it just confirmed what many already theorized. SE doesn't really fund FF XIV as much as it should, plain and simple. But on a positive note they appear to at least be open to the possibility of adding male Viera and female Hrothgar. That is probably what people needed to hear the most.

So what if people don't like melee dps and caster dps. But want to play a dps. Should they have to be restricted to just bard and mechanist just so you can have your 4th healer. Come off it the game needed another melee ranged dps and I'm glad Yoshi P put in dancer as such.

I'm glad they are also going to do the normal live letter as well and didn't just focus on responding to player feedback.

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Originally Posted by MrKusakabe

I am sure there is some sort of "formula" available to batch-stretch or batch-fix much of the stuff.

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Please explain why you are so sure of this.

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Originally Posted by MrKusakabe

I mean, they can do it for "10,000 items" for already 5 species/"races", but a 6th and 7th is suddenly "absolutely super duper impossible" even with the "tremendous amount of money" we actually throw at the game via game purchases and expansion pack purchases, full-price subscription, high-priced cash shop and overpriced merchandise shop?

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So you can make 10 cakes for 10 restaurants everyday. 5 more restaurants open and also want 10 cakes each. however you only have 8 hours every day to bake and now instead of 100 cakes a day you have to make 150 with the same amount of ovens and employees.

this is not a matter of throwing money at it. it's them looking at the workload and noting how exponentially it increases with a new race. There is only so much work they can possibly fit into so much time. Unless you want the price of the cakes to increase, lets not add more restaurants.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Please explain why you are so sure of this.


So you can make 10 cakes for 10 restaurants everyday. 5 more restaurants open and also want 10 cakes each. however you only have 8 hours every day to bake and now instead of 100 cakes a day you have to make 150 with the same amount of ovens and employees.

this is not a matter of throwing money at it. it's them looking at the workload and noting how exponentially it increases with a new race. There is only so much work they can possibly fit into so much time. Unless you want the price of the cakes to increase, lets not add more restaurants.

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Using your analogy...if the demand increases, and you have the money (SE clearly does, they're not some startup indie company), it would make sense to employ more "bakers" and maybe invest in some new equipment in order to meet the rising demand. Sometimes you have to spend money to make more money.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Using your analogy...if the demand increases, and you have the money (SE clearly does, they're not some startup indie company), it would make sense to employ more "bakers" and maybe invest in some new equipment in order to meet the rising demand. Sometimes you have to spend money to make more money.

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Though that is implying that SE is actually willing to shell out more people and funds for the game, even if it is a popular one. I mean they still have people currently working on Kingdo Hearts 3, the Final Fantasy VII remake and who knows what they have going on within(Final Fantasy XVI possibly).

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Originally Posted by disturbedcobra

Though that is implying that SE is actually willing to shell out more people and funds for the game, even if it is a popular one. I mean they still have people currently working on Kingdo Hearts 3, the Final Fantasy VII remake and who knows what they have going on within(Final Fantasy XVI possibly).

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It definitely comes down to what they're willing to do...but they could do more with FF XIV if they actually wanted to. That is the point I'm trying to make.

Well it's good to see this thread blew up so spectacularly. I'm curious though, since some people responded to the whole "children" thing; which I swear wasn't the primary demand. But why is it okay to have lolis but not shoutas? Give us the Ivalician moogles as a playable race, that takes care of the cuter male demand and the beastial race requests. I'd love to make a moogle that looked similar to Hurdy from FFTA2.

I just wanted to chime in and say that I do quite like the look of that Hrothgar. :D If I ever made one, I will use the wolf like face.

However I still couldn't change my main into one. I am happy to see that they could actually look good and maybe one day we will get to see Male Viera. Time will tell.

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Originally Posted by Taybat

I mean the people asking for male viera are far greater than female hrothgar. Just by looking at the forums

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If you are talking about the number of posts per thread please remember that there are many people posting many times a day and other posting against the idea in the viera thread. The number of posts doesn't relate to the number of people wanting it.

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Originally Posted by Sentaryuu

I just wanted to chime in and say that I do quite like the look of that Hrothgar. :D If I ever made one, I will use the wolf like face.

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I don't see the "wolfishness" of that design, personally. It still looks cat-like to me - particularly the nose.

Still, if that's what counts as "wolf-like" then great, because I thought it was a weird concept (plausibility-wise) to say they're mixing cat-like and dog-like possibilities in a single race, but that design still matches the others.

While I understand their reasons for what they did and do, I still think at some point they should make Male Viera and Female Hrothgar playable. Then never add another race to the game unless they can hire more people to help with it.

So basically it's nothing to do with lore, developer vision or "couldn't be bothered". Making new races is simply a ton of work and this being the last race they plan to add, it was a choice between adding Viera with both genders and no Hrothgar ever, or adding Viera females and Hrothgar males so we get both races.

That's fair. Honest indepth developer posts like this are something you'd never see in WoW. I can definitely respect that. You get the feeling they still have passion for the game, little things like adding 540 head gear in their spare time show they want this expansion to be amazing, down to the small details. Sure, I have nitpicks, but I'm looking forward to ShB a lot more now.

Cheers for the work devs :)

im in love glasses on these two races is something i didnt know i needed ty dev team for all that you do your the best <3

~Ruby

Can't wait to be a Viera Gunbreaker :D

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Originally Posted by Michiko

Glad the Hrothgar stuff is starting to look nice. But honestly that's the only thing I gleamed that was something that we didn't already know. Still no explanation of why adding a 4 tank for 'balance' is the answer while refusing to do a new healer class for "balance". Guess I'm still sore that we spent all of 4.0 with the constant "balance" issues and yet nothing was ever actually done about it. Holding hope on the Live Letter on May 23rd for this "revamp" but.. I am already not expecting much but probably more homogenization between the healer classes..

But again.. at least the Hrothgar is .. pretty cute

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The problem with healer balance is that we only have two healing types shield or Regen with one healer for each and the third doing both. There is also the problem that WHM is kinfof crap compared to the other two.

Also plz stop saying all DPS are in one category cause they aren't. If someone like ranged DPS it doesn't mean they will like melee or casters and the different categories are very different for one another.

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Originally Posted by spf1200

Also plz stop saying all DPS are in one category cause they aren't. If someone like ranged DPS it doesn't mean they will like melee or casters and the different categories are very different for one another.

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The general separationg is basically this.
imho
Caster DPS = RDM/BLM/SMN
Melee DPS = DRG/SAM/MNK/NIN (You can honestly argue though that NIN is more Melee support then DPS. XD)
Ranged Support DPS = BRD/MCH

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Originally Posted by spf1200

The problem with healer balance is that we only have two healing types shield or Regen with one healer for each and the third doing both. There is also the problem that WHM is kinfof crap compared to the other two.

Also plz stop saying all DPS are in one category cause they aren't. If someone like ranged DPS it doesn't mean they will like melee or casters and the different categories are very different for one another.

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Hey, I love the 'crap' that is WHM. :3

As far as my take on the DPS split, I do get Yoshi's point. I main a heal, but I love ranged DPS as well. I do NOT like melee, and I'm not generally very fond of casters. While they are all part of the greater "DPS" family, they do play quite a bit differently.

Was hoping this would have more info, but this is mostly what was already said/known.

Still wish they'd stop gendering things unnecessarily... sounds like it'd halve the some of those workloads.

Except that analogy doesn't apply to development. You can't just hire more devs and have them immeddiately start 'making cakes'.

And also, when making cakes you don't have to check if your newest cakes ruin your previous 1000 ones. In code, changing adding on line can break the other. No matter how experienced you are, you can still break things if you're not familiar with the code. Please stop using completely wrong analogies for stuff you don't understand. Yoshi P is not making things up, it is as he says, you can't just throw more money.

yeah, what yoship is talking about is the law of diminishing returns, if this was a game running on unreal engine the argument could be plausibly made to hire more people short term to help make assets and supplement the team since unreal is a well documented and well known game engine and thus is very scalable, ff14 however is built using a proprietary engine using proprietary software with proprietary tools and apis, spaghettid from 1.0 into the current game.
any new hires that interact with the engine would need time and a mentor to learn how the system works and its limitations, pulling existing people that know the systems away from the workload they already have, and any new hires that dont interact with the engine would similarly need instruction on how those designs would need tailoring when they are modelled in engine.

for those looking at the person above mes mention of coding being very exacting, i play Aliens: Colonial Marines AI in... support mode...?

I definitely agree with their decision on "child" characters, but what I do/did want is for the height slider to provide greater variety for the tall races so I could make a shorter (but not tiny) character with them.

That Hrothgar looks really nice. Not gonna lie. Also, really pleased to hear that they have been working on headpiece for both!!

And though I still harbor just a small pang of disappointment over no third healer (or that DNC isn't a healer), I'm more excited to try it out as a physical ranged. I'll finally be able to flex in my role if it turns out to play very well. Kind of hoping for its dances to function similar to BRD's songs (i.e., "stances"). Can't wait for the end of June!

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Originally Posted by spf1200

The problem with healer balance is that we only have two healing types shield or Regen with one healer for each and the third doing both. There is also the problem that WHM is kinfof crap compared to the other two.

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Actually no. Whether heals are direct, shields, or HoTs it really doesn't matter how they come so long as the player doesn't get KO'd. All healers can heal, so they are balanced when looking at just that. If the dev team continues to look at healing balance in this regard, the problem is going to continue well into 5.0. The reason why healers are unbalanced is because two of the three are saturated with utility, and the last has none at all except lesser single target versions that don't help the raid much, if at all.

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Originally Posted by Tenil

Then there's this line: "FFXIV has around ten thousand equippable items already implemented, all of which must be manually modified by our designers". That's a blatant lie. A large number of items share models, and an even larger amount are racially universal, like accessories and weapons.

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Let me explain it to you. The fact that an item can be worn on multiple races, does not mean it is or can be the same item. For each race, each item has to be appropiately set so that it looks good, we have 6 races, so each item has at least 12 different files (one for female, one for male) . Earrings are not in the same spot, whether your a miqote, lala, au ra, roe, etc. Cuz every race has a different shape. So even if say, some items do not need any changes for the new races (which I doubt, given that their heads are completely different, and hrothgars body shape is somewhat different too) you still have to go ahead an review each to make sure it's acceptable.

It is not a lie.
And if you're asking yourself, why is it harder now than back then? Back then was 2 expansions ago, how many more items, jobs, and emotes, have been added since then? Many. They have to review all items made up to this day, plus new ones, which is a very time consuming task.