Surprisingly, The outdated MMO is WOW, not FFXI/XIV1.2

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

I respectfully disagree. I think that players who want more "old-school" type games will continue to be disappointed that FFXIV doesn't fit their mold, but players who like ease of access, catch-up mechanics, and MMO gameplay without the older associated attached strings of no-lifing/serious time commitment will be satisfied and continue to play. Basically the exact same status quo we have now.

I really can't stress this enough - no MMO game style is BETTER than the other; they're literally just different. I say this as someone who has played and tried nearly all of them. Could XIV work on improving when it comes to long-term goals/longevity? Sure, but it's never going to BE a game where you have to sink hours a day into it to remain relevant. The developers absolutely want people to be able to pick it up and play without a ton of time or stress involved. They don't want gear that you have to grind 3 months for in order for people to let you into a party, even if that gear will theoretically last you for six more months. Barriers of entry for this game are meant to be minimal, and tbh there's nothing wrong with that, even if it's not what some people enjoy.

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This. Moreover, features do not necessarily command style, unless that style is something shallow or tangential. A game being "hardcore" or "casual" or "free of hand-holding" tells you virtually nothing about the game itself. If that's the only style an MMO may have, such that any addition of features that wouldn't equally fit that summary would break down its "identity", that game has long since been lacking in actual identity.

That said, I do think that, as long as you define what you're looking for or what equilibrium you're trying to maximize, we can definitely say on a feature by feature basis, given the contexts surrounding them, what works better in reaching those targets. And in almost no cases have "catch up mechanics" in themselves gone wrong in MMO designs. That said, they're not necessarily mutually exclusive with gear longevity, and yet that's the conflict we're shown here in XIV.

forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/356964-Please-Reconsider-MSQ-Changes
forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/360092-I-m-not-sure-I-can-do-this-again.

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Originally Posted by Xandos

While i definitely didn't read all 90+ pages I feel like I got the idea of the thread :) I'll toss in my own anecdotal evidence and thoughts.

I played 1.0 when it launched and then quite for a long time before coming back to 2.0 after HW had launched. When I finally got to these two dungeons they had already been around for a long time. Up till that point I had happily watched all the cutscenes and read most of the dialogs that came up through the MSQ. When I queued for the first dungeon and was met with all of the speed runners and scene skippers I did not like it. Being that I played a healer I felt it was necessary for me to skip the scenes and keep up with the group. I really had no idea what was going on in the run. People were mass pulling everything, ignoring mechanics, and standing in AoE. It was just a mess.

The next dungeon was even worse. People skipped all sorts of mobs in front of transporters, didn't wait for others to get on elevators, and again ignored mechanics. I was expecting some of this due to my last run but it was still very frustrating. After that run was over I went to an inn and watched all of the scenes. Watching them in the inn was not nearly as enjoyable as seeing them in person and in context but it got the job done.

Fast forward to when I hit 60 and started running the MSQ daily and I found my self resorting to the same things that I disliked. I skip cutscenes, ignore mechanics, and sometimes stand in AoE. I do at least wait for people to get on elevators and help explain things if someone asks a question.

With the recent change to the MSQ Roulette I won't say that I will never run it again, but I will say that it will be at the bottom of my list of priorities. Having to take that long to complete a run I have done hundreds of times before is not my idea of fun. Having fun is the reason why I play this game. I really do hope they come up with a better solution soon.

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Originally Posted by Coombah

I may have rose colored or tinted glasses but I was eager to play XIV during 1.?? It was fun and exciting. The community seemed more involved and they didn’t spoon feed you every little thing. Before the servers went down for 1.0 you had to deal with the difficulty of primals, dungeons etc. I don’t think I’m ready to give up just yet but I am hoping they make another mmo in the future that goes back to those roots.

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Modern people asked for easy & fast contents, instant gratification, but they forgot this is a sub game,
you are expected to keep playing it,so SE can keep making money from you,not play & leave.
and it requires development time to make a content，to polish a content

So thats what you get now:Play 100 easy,simple,short & fast,lower quality, same old dungeons every month, highly repetitive & boring.
instead of 50 slower & longer, but higher quality,more challenging, memorable & fun dungeons and open world contents.

And modern people refuse to wait 5-20 more minutes to form a party themself or look for a party,
so you have a DF feature, and the more horrible things: everyone is a random,impatient, unkind, rude and self-seeking stranger(what's this like? the fallen human, something mentioned in the Bible? I don't know)
or like a npc, a toxic community and the loneliness.

Delicious food, every wonderful things, require time to make & wait
Don't want to wait?then here you are：Some fast food, some genetically modified junk. this is the natural law,
oh.. what a good modern life...

A big part of the FFxiv success is that it has been released on consoles.
I believe consoles playerbase builds up around 30% of the total playerbase for this game if not more.

If you so desire, you can change XIV quests to the oldschool MMO style of having to read everything / look at guides on the internet to find out where to go / what to do..
Here is how you do it -
1. Open your HUD layout mode and right click the "Duty List" so the text is purple & it is hidden form your UI.
2. Upon accepting a new quest, open your Journal and click the box on the right until it shows a red "crossed out" icon.

This will remove all quest hints.

You are suffering from the blindness that is associated with nostalgia.

*EDITED after reading a little more of the thread:*

Furthermore.. Why are you just suggesting to increase wait times? Why shouldn't someone be able to queue up to a dungeon and just get matched / jump straight in as soon as the party fills? Why needlessly extend the wait time?
As much as you may not like it, SE is a business, and this game is a revenue for them. Making parties "fill slower" for the sake of (I still don't know why) whatever it is you're trying to achieve - reduces their market audience as people with less time are less inclined to do content / stay subscribed.
The key for a successful game is accessibility. And whether that be your taste or not, the game core systems need to cater to as many platforms, and as many varying levels of playtime as it can in order to make the most amount of money.

These "big, epic quests" that you are talking about are in the game. You just need to actually read the text and follow the quest chains through. They are simply split up into smaller quests to allow people to complete them in stages.

As for the quote you referenced, regarding the 2x MSQ dungeons she is talking about - that "issue" has been rectified since.. And we are now forced to sit through the cutscenes.
As for the little lala, he is indeed looking at 1.0 through rose coloured glasses. The primal fights weren't as difficult as the fights in this game - they were just made more difficult by the clunky combat system of 1.0, animation lock, max of 15 FPS on the best PCs, and crazy bad latency even for people that are playing from the basement of the data centre.
The "Dungeons" were still "gather everything and burn it". The relic quest chain actually required you to complete both those dungeons in under 17 mins (about on-par with dungeon completion times in ARR and beyond).

I really think nostalgia has blinded you somewhat.

I love the DF, won't lie. A huge part of my job is chasing after and gathering people up... I don't like doing it, and I certainly don't want to do it in my off-time. I'm glad the days of /shout LFG for every little thing are gone.

I would like more persistent content that doesn't get outdated within a patch cycle. I know this game is all about recycling content but some consistently relevant, epic adventure type instances would be welcome. A lot of people like MMOs for the challenge and the fond memories of finally beating that epic boss - not everyone wants to cap tomes with the latest copy/past content and play dress-up every week. Maybe Eureka will capture that essence? I know a lot of people are hoping it'll be everything they dreamed of; I'll be happy if it's reminiscent of older games where you're plunked down and let loose to go die a bunch while you figure it all out. Tough but (ideally) fair.

Yep that's the thing with ffxi, when you finished a quest or got lucky on a HLNM drop you felt really accomplished. The only quest I felt any sort of accomplishment in ffxiv was the relic quests.

A big part of the sense of accomplishment in ffxi came from having to manually shout and form parties, here you just get things handed to you with duty finder/Pf/ etc.

When you camped that boss for days and finally it spawned and you got the tag + the loot, that's where the adrenaline of accomplishment comes from, not capping tomestones.

If anything is out of date it's the spoon feeding gear treadmil / ilvl powercreep of xiv, now that is outdated, not xi, as for wow, that game was outdated 10 years ago.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

Yep that's the thing with ffxi, when you finished a quest or got lucky on a HLNM drop you felt really accomplished. The only quest I felt any sort of accomplishment in ffxiv was the relic quests.

A big part of the sense of accomplishment in ffxi came from having to manually shout and form parties, here you just get things handed to you with duty finder/Pf/ etc.

When you camped that boss for days and finally it spawned and you got the tag + the loot, that's where the adrenaline of accomplishment comes from, not capping tomestones.

If anything is out of date it's the spoon feeding gear treadmil / ilvl powercreep of xiv, now that is outdated, not xi, as for wow, that game was outdated 10 years ago.

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Is that a sense of accomplishment, or a sense of relief? wondering if the 2 are getting mixed up here lol. "Yes, I finally got a party together after 3 hours to go from level 15 to level 16. yay!" yeah, not feelin it.

People already complain with 10 min DPS queues, and when they dont get their drops after 5 runs in 1 week. Can you imagine the outrage going months without a drop? Oh wait, that happened in coil already...

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Is that a sense of accomplishment, or a sense of relief? wondering if the 2 are getting mixed up here lol. "Yes, I finally got a party together after 3 hours to go from level 15 to level 16. yay!" yeah, not feelin it.

People already complain with 10 min DPS queues, and when they dont get their drops after 5 runs in 1 week. Can you imagine the outrage going months without a drop? Oh wait, that happened in coil already...

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You only had long waits to get partys at some level ranges though, and this issue would be non existent with the moderns server architectures that can be put together. Furthermore, there are some activities in FFXIV for which you'd typically have to wait a long time to get a group together.

Also, should we talk about the grinds for relics in 2.X and 3.X ? For which you had to grind hundreds of dungeons/fates to get a weapon that wasn't even better that what you could get elsewhere more easily. At least when you grinded/camped a NM/expected a drop from somewhere in FFXI that was for something relevant, and not for a generic item upgraded 1 month later.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

A big part of the sense of accomplishment in ffxi came from having to manually shout and form parties,

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So this game is so bad that you enjoyment comes from wasting hours and hours begging for people to join your party.
No thanks I'd rather go out and see some friends at this point and I sure hate going out.

There are many things I liked about ffxi the big one was the feeling of final hitting level cap.
Finally getting that nm drop.
Clearing Alex while it was still 75 cap after 2 to 3 try a Sunday for 5 weeks in a row with a static.
I liked wow because leveling was quicker vs ffxi but all that has changed. It's quick in every game.
Now the reward changes every patch with new raids. It's not as good as a feeling but it's still there.

My fc has setup a cross server fc alliance with I think 18 fc over the aether data centre. The committee is great and we now have 2 raid leaders running raids every day. I never had that in ffxi or wow. In ffxi I ran a 55 active member LS it was a lot of work playing events for that many people but it never felt like a family which the friends I've made in dbh feels like.

Final as an adult with 2 mortgages and a family I don't have time for some think like ffxi 75 cap or even wow or ffxiv 1.x

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Is that a sense of accomplishment, or a sense of relief? wondering if the 2 are getting mixed up here lol. "Yes, I finally got a party together after 3 hours to go from level 15 to level 16. yay!" yeah, not feelin it.

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You have absolutely nailed it. Playing FFXI was like bashing your head against a wall, giving yourself a headache, and then being happy when your head finally stopped hurting.

I don't think anyone wants a full on old school mmo experience. I like 14's DF and easy questing, end game could use some longer term goals though and I think thats why xi gets brought up cause those that stuck past the nuisance found a way to be content with endgame for many years. I wouldnt replace anything that we have so far.

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Originally Posted by ShanXiv

Modern people asked for easy & fast contents, instant gratification, but they forgot this is a sub game,

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I've yet to see a "modern" player ask for any of these things by principle (e.g. for the sake, outright, of easier or faster content). Yes, sometimes what they ask for will overlap with these things, but given that just as many complain of such kinds of play being unrewarding, perhaps it's time we stop summarizing these thoughts as if they were caricatures pointing out some fatalistic ending to the quality of gamers.

One can desire catch-up mechanics not just for instant gratification, but to allow them to play what they see as the "real" game within the game; more than desiring easier or faster content, what they most want is for there to be fewer obligatory stages that separate people solely by gear rather than by skill.

One can desire quicker content, likewise, in the sense that the total factors of difficulties in an encounter are compressed into fewer minutes of play, making the resulting fight more engaging or at least more evenly paced -- rather than being broken into mechanics that command one's attention and longer lulls that require virtually nothing unless an enrage mechanic is tightly attached to the fight.

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Originally Posted by ShanXiv

When I was playing XIV 1.2x, I didn't have this problem, we can always form an exp/primal party in 10-20mins，
if we can't find enough people, we will disband & do other things, or you can solo the weaker mobs, just fewer exp
and I met new friends almost every time, had many memorable memories

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As someone who was also playing back then, this is some pretty blatant rose-tinting.

"So after we spent time farming the prerequisite monster drops (Terrible and outdated concept, imo), sometimes the party wouldn't get off the ground due to lack of interest, so we just didn't do it. It was awesome!"

I would love EQ style game on PS4.

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Originally Posted by Emstidor

As someone who was also playing back then, this is some pretty blatant rose-tinting.

"So after we spent time farming the prerequisite monster drops (Terrible and outdated concept, imo), sometimes the party wouldn't get off the ground due to lack of interest, so we just didn't do it. It was awesome!"

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I have another one: 30 mins to gather 10 ppl for UBRS only to find out no1 had the key to open the door.

Not to mention that parties to get the damn thing were nonexistant on my server

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Originally Posted by ShanXiv

Modern people asked for easy & fast contents, instant gratification, but they forgot this is a sub game,
you are expected to keep playing it,so SE can keep making money from you,not play & leave.
and it requires development time to make a content，to polish a content

So thats what you get now:Play 100 easy,simple,short & fast,lower quality, same old dungeons every month, highly repetitive & boring.
instead of 50 slower & longer, but higher quality,more challenging, memorable & fun dungeons and open world contents.
And modern people refuse to wait 5-20 more minutes to form a party themself or look for a party,
so you have a DF feature, and the more horrible things: everyone is a random,impatient, unkind, rude and self-seeking stranger....

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I couldn’t agree more with you, even more so now coming back to the game and trying to find a good community of people.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

Also, should we talk about the grinds for relics in 2.X and 3.X ? For which you had to grind hundreds of dungeons/fates to get a weapon that wasn't even better that what you could get elsewhere more easily. At least when you grinded/camped a NM/expected a drop from somewhere in FFXI that was for something relevant, and not for a generic item upgraded 1 month later.

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And yet, those grinds were doable solo, or through duty finder. I never had to wait hours to start working on them.

I don't mind grinds, those are fine.

Its when there is a grind, and then it requires hours of getting a party together, getting to the spot needed for the grind, and then falling apart. Thats the issue.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

^^
This.

I, like many other people, play games for fun. I play them to relax, to escape RL.

If I have to do stuff I do not like ("work") in something I'm supposed to be having fun, then it starts becoming less of a game and more like a second job. And you know, that's what hardcore raiding is, IMO. You put in tedious hours upon hours upon hours into getting good enough to perform at maximum, grind all the best gear, get killed on a boss over and over and over and over and over again, for what? some pixels on a screen?

No thanks.

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That's why we derive fun from it. Because there is a chance of failure. A risk we cannot complete it because we need to improve and that drives fun. When you reference rage your not understanding the root cause. Most of the time people only get mad when someone does something they shouldn't. They got greedy and cost everyone 10 minute of their time/energy. Someone snuck into a clear party, yet there they are watching the cutscene and wiping the party to the very first mechanic. Stuff like that is why people rage, and frankly frustration (not necessarily rage) is warranted in situations like this.

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Originally Posted by Synrin

I go back to WoW every now and again. I am basically always ready to jump in the endgame as a casual. It is fun. WoW still has THE best PvP out of all MMOs. No one ever played WoW for the story. If you get a good guild, you can raid, do dungeons, grind stuff, do PvP, whatever. I enjoy playing it with some old friends every now and then. I also love how WoW is a lot faster.

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I never cared much for WoW's PVP. It was ok, but I found that Blade and Soul took that category. I loved how it felt like the MMO version of a fighting game and how reading my opponent lead directly to positive results. How my mechanical acuity led to better damaging combos/tech chases, wins, etc and gear was irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

As to FF14, I just came back from a couple month break. I've always played this game casually...I just play it a lot when I do. My "hardcore" days have long since passed me by. At most I'm probably a midcore player. I just don't do Savage raids and the like, and I usually don't hit up Ex primals until the end of the expansion or the beginning of the next.

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Just wanted to nitpick this. If we use the definition that casual/midcore/hardcore is a measure of skill/content played:

If you don't do EX trials or above I'd very strongly hesitate to call that midcore. That's markedly casual. Midcore typically involves EX's and very low savage. IMO of course.

Personally - I don't subscribe to the notion that "casual/midcore/hardcore" is a measure of skill, but rather that of time. I find that some of the most "casual" players actually play the game in a very hardcore fashion (i.e. 12+ hours weekly).

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Originally Posted by ShanXiv

Delicious food, every wonderful things, require time to make & wait
Don't want to wait?then here you are：Some fast food, some genetically modified junk. this is the natural law,
oh.. what a good modern life...

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I mean, I just cooked a filet mignon, and steamed some fresh vegetables in less than 15 minutes... That's shorter than 99.999765% of the DF content I do, let alone the queue time if I'm not tanking...

While I can support your statement that the community has eroded as a result of the DF, I'm not sure the alternative is actually better. I don't have the time I used too, and apparently neither do others. I can't sit around all day forming a UBRS group, then sit inside a 4 hour long dungeon. That's why gaming has evolved moved past this.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

^^
This.

I, like many other people, play games for fun. I play them to relax, to escape RL.

If I have to do stuff I do not like ("work") in something I'm supposed to be having fun, then it starts becoming less of a game and more like a second job. And you know, that's what hardcore raiding is, IMO. You put in tedious hours upon hours upon hours into getting good enough to perform at maximum, grind all the best gear, get killed on a boss over and over and over and over and over again, for what? some pixels on a screen?

No thanks.

I also watch videos sometimes of people screaming in rage at the game, their teammates, etc and I have to think, is that person REALLY having fun? Sure don't look like it..

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An understandable view, but it comes across as a bit holier than thou if the other side of the coin isn't kept in mind. While fun is the primary motivator for a lot of people, a sense of achievement holds that spot for others. For some, the daily RL grind is the tedious part and FFXIV is where they come to get pushed. Most raid groups are just a group of friends having fun overcoming difficulty together and while the angry yelling gamer can be found in groups from time to time, he's most commonly found on his own looking for a new one.

Raiding can be a lot of things, stressful certainly among them, but just looking at the negative is only half the picture. For some it's the only time they feel like they're actually playing the game. Enjoyment takes different shapes for different people.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

And yet, those grinds were doable solo, or through duty finder. I never had to wait hours to start working on them.

I don't mind grinds, those are fine.

Its when there is a grind, and then it requires hours of getting a party together, getting to the spot needed for the grind, and then falling apart. Thats the issue.

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Again, I never spent more than 20+ mins to find a party in XIV 1.1x-1.2x
As I mentioned many times before， XIV 1.1x-1.2x had a very nice difficulty balance, you can solo many things or play the party contents,
people were shouting in Ul'dah, you can join them anytime, you can find & join 2-3 parties in a day
it had the best mid-core contents， and the second best community I've played in a MMO so far
It leaves me a lot of memorable memories, because playing with those people in game, it felt so humane
(I never experience this in UO, EQ,WOW and now the ARR)

and you didn't have to "catch up", because there were many mid-core contents for you, because it was not the steep vertical progression like now.
you can purchase gears from NPC vendors and go & start meeting new friends, playing with them in the open world & have some real adventures.

Please ask yourself, what have you got in XIV ARR after 4 yrs? some tomes? gears that 95% were obsoleted?
does your FC still active?where is the community?where is the memorable memories, are you playing with strangers, working for the lifeless tomes, some meaningless digitals again today?

I have friends I have played XIV with for 4 years running. I enjoy XIV for what it is. I'm still here after all. You can't say that about 1.x though, it was a pretty big failure.

Also, your thing about 1.x isn't exactly correct. Most "midcore" content required melded jobs, and multiple 50s for in dungeon switching. In fact, I could not find any groups at all for dungeons or primals, because I wasn't melded and didn't have the correct jobs leveled (BLM and MNK)

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I have friends I have played XIV with for 4 years running. I enjoy XIV for what it is. I'm still here after all. You can't say that about 1.x though, it was a pretty big failure.

Also, your thing about 1.x isn't exactly correct. Most "midcore" content required melded jobs, and multiple 50s for in dungeon switching. In fact, I could not find any groups at all for dungeons or primals, because I wasn't melded and didn't have the correct jobs leveled (BLM and MNK)

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Not true, XIV 1.0 failed because it was unfinished,
the contents SE added in 1.1x-1.2x are simply superior than what we have now

Some examples: the best Relic quest in 2.0-3.0 , is the first stage in ARR (before the boring ATMA thing),
it was a watered down version of the 1.2X relic quest. they removed the Hamlet defense(it was fun ,just need some more works),
after that, it was getting worse: the ATMA, & grind the lights with strangers.
NMs in 1.2x are more interesting,they drop unique gears, not just some boring seals
even we used to have a better Toto-Rak dungeon in 2.0 alpha (or beta?), it was more interesting than what we have now

https://i.imgur.com/N5EmbWi.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/VULKzLG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/DZd2gnm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PKDDXL3.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WZcxycg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ueuPRh6.jpg

now
https://i.imgur.com/SLWFzGc.jpg

Someone post this beofore,
Again, I am not saying we should take everything from XI/XIV1.1x-1.2x!
but some designs in XI/XIV1.1x-1.2x are just far superior
https://i.imgur.com/Mc1ijBl.jpg

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Originally Posted by ShanXiv

Someone post this beofore,
Again, I am not saying we should take everything from XI/XIV1.1x-1.2x!
but some designs in XI/XIV1.1x-1.2x are just far superior
https://i.imgur.com/Mc1ijBl.jpg

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You realize that a good third of the complaints on this forum are about things being too complex? You say "superior" , I say "unintuitive". Generally this is a casual game, pick it up , put it down. That's pretty.. not pick it up.

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Originally Posted by ShanXiv

Someone post this beofore,
Again, I am not saying we should take everything from XI/XIV1.1x-1.2x!
but some designs in XI/XIV1.1x-1.2x are just far superior
https://i.imgur.com/Mc1ijBl.jpg

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How? They were neither as intuitive nor complex. Out of all those XI spells that you'd have to pan through, only a handful were useful at a given level, while 1.x only had cast combos with CDed lengths that simply rotated as <A1-A2-A3, B1-B2, A1-A2, B1-B2; repeat> by going as far down a chain you were allowed and then as far down the other as you could. Over, and over, and over.

I had a huge number of complaints with the ARR system when it came out, but being less intuitive or complex than 1.17, or especially 1.18 and later after Yoshida's "combos", were certainly not among them.

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Originally Posted by ShanXiv

Someone post this beofore,
Again, I am not saying we should take everything from XI/XIV1.1x-1.2x!
but some designs in XI/XIV1.1x-1.2x are just far superior
https://i.imgur.com/Mc1ijBl.jpg

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They are different designs, neither is THE superior one, one of the 2 also requires the existance of an elemental system that can be a good thing or a terrible one if implemented poorly, though I will say that this comparison is biased because it reduces FFXIV BLM to the lowest common denominator while it doesn't for the FFXI one

Yeah... if you're going to compare BLM from FFXI to BLM in XIV, you have to at least update it to Stormblood's and that is also including rotations.

It's not even updated to ARR tbh, it's just a lowest common denominator so that it looks bad and hollow, which frankly it's not fair and a terrible ground to make a discussion

Oh another boring, lonely day, where is the fuuun? :rolleyes:
maybe I should watch an anime on the second monitor while playing?or, Take A Break?:confused:

https://i.imgur.com/CIqNgXX.jpg

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Originally Posted by ShanXiv

Oh another boring, lonely day :rolleyes:
maybe I should watch an anime on the second monitor while playing?or, Take A Break?:confused:

http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3nyyhpxb.jpg

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How about uninstalling the game since you don't like it instead of bragging about how a game that almost noone ever plays or one that was considered as a failure were so much better than a game with still million of players over more than 10 years?

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Originally Posted by Sesera

How about uninstalling the game since you don't like it instead of bragging about how a game that almost noone ever plays or one that was considered as a failure were so much better than a game with still million of players over more than 10 years?

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Yes, maybe "Take a break" or never come back are the real solutions to this game.
they only reason I keep paying sub its because I've 3 medium & 3 large houses, but I am not really interested in playing a Barbie game....

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Originally Posted by Remedi

It's not even updated to ARR tbh, it's just a lowest common denominator so that it looks bad and hollow, which frankly it's not fair and a terrible ground to make a discussion

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I dunno why I keep playing this game, maybe I missed the people in XIV1.1x so much, & don't want to lose the houses.
I don't understand why this game stays in Single Player + Super Easy(almost insulting) mode,
MHW, Zelda, GTA, COD, Nier, FF, DQ, Witcher3, Yoshida's Bomberman, those famous games have the Normal difficulty, none of these games are like FFXIV 2.0

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Originally Posted by ShanXiv

Yes, maybe "Take a break" or never come back are the real solutions to this game.
they only reason I keep paying sub its because I've 3 medium & 3 large houses, but I am not really interested in playing a Barbie game....

I dunno why I keep playing this game, maybe I missed the people in XIV1.1x so much, & don't want to lose the houses.
I don't understand why this game stays in Single Player + Super Easy(almost insulting) mode,
MHW, Zelda, GTA, COD, Nier, FF, DQ, Witcher3, Yoshida's Bomberman, those famous games have the Normal difficulty, none of these games are like FFXIV 2.0

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Is this what you do for fun? Get on the forums and try to tell the people that enjoy the game that they're EZ mode and should want the insanity that was 1.* back? I mean.. I don't pay your sub but this has got to be one of the weirder ways to get your moneys worth. The more you talk the more you seem like a troll.
"Ive got 6 houses ..."
"not interested in playing a barbie game.. "
"I dunno why I keep playing.. "
"none of these games are like FFXIV"
... Cool? If you don't like it stop! paying even the small amount that a sub costs when you don't enjoy any part of it is pretty silly. We don't need you telling us our game is inferior to the things you think are better, it's not going to change our minds.

GO HAVE FUN! IF THIS ISN'T FUN WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShanXiv

I dunno why I keep playing this game, maybe I missed the people in XIV1.1x so much, & don't want to lose the houses.
I don't understand why this game stays in Single Player + Super Easy(almost insulting) mode,
MHW, Zelda, GTA, COD, Nier, FF, DQ, Witcher3, Yoshida's Bomberman, those famous games have the Normal difficulty, none of these games are like FFXIV 2.0

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You see there's nothing wrong about not liking a game anymore, I quit wow after 12 years and won't come back, maybe in the future I'll drop FF too I don't know, point is that if you don't like the game and the direction it is going you should do what believe it's best for you and there's nothing wroing about it.

I think it's safe to say OP is a troll at this point. They completely ignored your quote and went on their own tangent unrelated to what you said (regarding BLM). Doing a quick search of their other character in the image they posted on the previous page, they haven't done/cleared Extreme Primals since Ravana Extreme and haven't cleared the 4th floors of the Alexander and 'Scape bosses.

I only bring the last part up because of their "this game is super easy (almost insulting)" comment and that's assuming that character is their main.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I think it's safe to say OP is a troll at this point. They completely ignored your quote and went on their own tangent unrelated to what you said (regarding BLM). Doing a quick search of their other character in the image they posted on the previous page, they haven't done/cleared Extreme Primals since Ravana Extreme and haven't cleared the 4th floors of the Alexander and 'Scape bosses.

I only bring the last part up because of their "this game is super easy (almost insulting)" comment and that's assuming that character is their main.

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Sorry my English is not good,
Yes the BLM rotation had been improved since 2.0 beta,but it still miss the XI/XIV1.1x"elemental wheel",well this is not a big issue, I am ok with it.
same to the Toto-Rak dungeon nerf, it's just some "small issues"

but if there many of these "small issues",then I think there are some issues

You said I ignore your points (sorry),but how about you? you said I didn't raid.
because I have mentioned in my first post:I don't want somethings that is too easy ,or raid like a second job.
I used to be a very hardcore raider in WOW, I had joined some top 3 guilds in my region(asia),but now I don't have that time,and don't want to play some "jump rope" things again,
I love RPG,roleplaying games, I've played many RPGs since SNES, PS1 SS, I've played FF since FF4, that's why I am here,
I love exploration, the adventures, play with other people in a MMORPG, these stuff are & should be very normal in a MMORPG.

I hope there are some mid-core contents (& I think most people do), some medium difficulties, like the content in XIV1.1x-1.2x (again ,not 1.0! 1.0 had not content)

I had some hope (not much) on Eureka. I think its one step in the right direction ,
Yoshida do hear us, so please don't tell us: "shut up & Go" or "Take a break" , or saying someone is trolling
this is unkind, isn't it?, I've play XIV since 2010,it's been 8 yrs,
no one was saying:"you are trolling" or "shut up & leave", or "take a break", during XIV1.1x-1.2x, the XIV 1.1x-1.2x community is simply better,people were more kind and polite in XIV1.1x--1.2x........the community of 2.0-4.0 is more like the WOW community,which I don't like too...

I've played WOW for 6-7yrs, ,stopped playing it during Woltk.
After I played XIV1.1x, I became a die-hard XIV fan & hate WOW immediately,
there are something very special in XIV1.1x-1.2x (& XI?).. people were enthusiastic & like to help others,they were kind & lovely

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShanXiv

Sorry my English is not good,
Yes the BLM rotation had been improved since 2.0 beta,but it still miss the XI/XIV1.1x"elemental wheel",well this is not a big issue, I am ok with it.

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HAHAHAHA.. Don't kid yourself... XIV 1.0 BLM was so stupidly simplistic.

Single target? Thunder > Thundara > Thundaga > Thunder > Thundara > Thundaga
AoE? Fire > Fira > Firaga (Or simply Flare burn)

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same to the Toto-Rak dungeon nerf, it's just some "small issues"

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Toto-Rak was still as mindnumblingly boring to run as 2.x.. The major difference being that you could pick and choose which Diremite to kill. All 3 of them had very few mechanics and didn't change an awful lot between them.
You are kidding yourself if you believe the 1.x fights & dungeons were more complicated than fights in 2.x and beyond.

I mean take Coincounter as a side by side comparison.. Do you not remember standing in the one safe spot with the rest of your entire party (aside from tank) as a BLM and just thunder-burning it down, without having to move at all?
The only mechanics anyone had to deal with was the tank dodging Swipe & Swing.

Ifrit Extreme is another example. The thing that made that fight difficult was the clunky combat system, lag and animation lock. The mechanics of "the hardest fight in the game" in 1.0 was put down to bad latency and poor combat design. If that's your idea of a good game, then you just don't belong in the ARR reboot. (And yes, I played through 1.0 and did all of the end game content. One of the few linkshells that went into ARR with multiple relics).

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You said I ignore your points (sorry),but how about you? you said I didn't raid.
because I have mentioned in my first post:I don't want somethings that is too easy ,or raid like a second job.

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But you're complaining about things being too easy. You cannot comment on the game being "too easy" without doing the content that is designed to be reasonably challenging.

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I hope there are some mid-core contents (& I think most people do), some medium difficulties, like the content in XIV1.1x-1.2x (again ,not 1.0! 1.0 had not content)

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I mean, there is.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Altena

HAHAHAHA.. Don't kid yourself... XIV 1.0 BLM was so stupidly simplistic.

Single target? Thunder > Thundara > Thundaga > Thunder > Thundara > Thundaga
AoE? Fire > Fira > Firaga (Or simply Flare burn)




Toto-Rak was still as mindnumblingly boring to run as 2.x.. The major difference being that you could pick and choose which Diremite to kill. All 3 of them had very few mechanics and didn't change an awful lot between them.
You are kidding yourself if you believe the 1.x fights & dungeons were more complicated than fights in 2.x and beyond.

I mean take Coincounter as a side by side comparison.. Do you not remember standing in the one safe spot with the rest of your entire party (aside from tank) as a BLM and just thunder-burning it down, without having to move at all?
The only mechanics anyone had to deal with was the tank dodging Swipe & Swing.



But you're complaining about things being too easy. You cannot comment on the game being "too easy" without doing the content that is designed to be reasonably challenging.



I mean, there is.....

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again I am not saying the 1.0 BLM
SE had reworked the combat system twice during 1.1x-1.2
I don't like the 1.18(or 1.19? forgot) combat system too, ,but I started having fun in the 1.2x combat system

I don't refuse very easy stuff, as someone said before, it added some texture to the game,
but it shouldn't be everywhere

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShanXiv

again I am not saying the 1.0 BLM
SE had reworked the combat system twice during 1.1x-1.2
I don't like the 1.18(or 1.19? forgot) combat system too, ,but I started having fun in the 1.2x combat system

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Yes they did. And the combat system I am talking about (using BLM as the example) is the final build. (1.2+ which is the one you seem to praise).
Do you not remember how braindead BLM was to play? I am using this example as it's the example you decided to point out.

The combat was quite literally - stand in the same spot and do not move.
Spam Thunder > Thundara > Thundaga over and over.. If you are about to pull hate cast Freeze.
Repeat.

Beginning to wonder if you even remember 1.x at all...

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I don't refuese some very easy stuff, as someone said before, it added some texture to the game,
but it should'nt be everywhere

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Have you completed a single 8-man raid?
Have you even beaten a primal while it was relevant?

I will repeat myself.. You can't cry for more difficult content if you haven't even attempted the current content that is deemed difficult.
Some did, and that is what birthed Ultimate.
I am yet to hear people say "Ultimate was too easy"...

If you actually bothered to read my earlier post about half way through this thread you would have noitced my comment on accessibility.
Not everyone can play to ultimate or raid level difficulty.
The bar is set low to increase accessibility.
That accessibility is a wise business decision as SE is a business and the end-goal is to make money.
If everything were too hard or inaccessible (eg. 1.x only being on PC with horrible optimization on even the best PCs) then that would equate to less players able to play the game.
This means less money.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Altena

Yes they did. And the combat system I am talking about (using BLM as the example) is the final build. (1.2+ which is the one you seem to praise).
Do you not remember how braindead BLM was to play? I am using this example as it's the example you decided to point out.

The combat was quite literally - stand in the same spot and do not move.
Spam Thunder > Thundara > Thundaga over and over.. If you are about to pull hate cast Freeze.
Repeat.

Beginning to wonder if you even remember 1.x at all...

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sorry I am not very familiar with the BLM
I played PLD mainly, yes the battle system is not perfect, example: you can't move when casting a WS, I dont like this too.

I am ok with the WOW type rotation, but the elemental wheel & the different weapon types(slashing ,piecing etc) sound more fun to me

Yes I've completed the first coil,all the extreme primals in 2.0,with my FC,
(they've all quit, & I don't want to raid anymore, I dont like the extreme: too easy or like a job, I just want something in the middle, something more"role playing" ,& more party contents,that helps build a FC,and keep a FC alive too)