Why do you fail at Hashmal?

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

In all of this, I forgot to ask about the only mech in the whole raid that I can't overcome: Argath gnawing dread + trepidation combo. I really suck at moving in the way I want to so I thought I'd ask if anyone knows at what time he does this combo and where's the best place to be when he does it so I have some time to work the gnawing dread out.

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Since I'm playing with german language I'll try it: Trepidation should be the meteors (google) and Gnawing Dread the cursor. Or do you mean the cursor combo, where you have to walk to the safespot? As for the cursor mechanic: walk a bit stop so often until it shows at the right direction (use sprint if you're too far away) even if you don't direct move into the field, try to get close. You have 1-2 seconds after the cursor to get into the safezone. After the surrounding aoe vanish go away from the safespot, because argath will drop down there.

The other cursor before an after: just walk the way you wish until there is no aoe beneath you :)

edit: At what time: after his ultimate for sure

edit two: after the second sword laydown next to his mask of goddess and devil mechanic.

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Originally Posted by ChloeGrace

It's almost always when I get hemmed in from someone else stacking those purple circles on/near me and I can't get out in time.
That, and healers dying so often they can't keep up with the raid-wide splash damage.

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This is why you notice them before hand and move away preemptively. Notice 3 circles coming your way? Move.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

In all of this, I forgot to ask about the only mech in the whole raid that I can't overcome: Argath gnawing dread + trepidation combo. I really suck at moving in the way I want to so I thought I'd ask if anyone knows at what time he does this combo and where's the best place to be when he does it so I have some time to work the gnawing dread out.

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Easiest way to overcome this is honestly have a healer use Rescue on you. Perhaps say something before the fight so they can slot it. Repay their kindness with a comm :D

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

On this subject, however, since we are talking specifically about Rabanastre, while I agree that experience does play a role in a person's credibility, FFlogs really has no bearing outside of Savage runs....not that I'm aware of players who even have time to check Fflogs in a 24-man. I get what you're trying to say myself, but that being said, the FFLOGs comment doesn't really have much of a bearing when it comes to Rabanstre or really, the thread at hand.

If anybody catches this comment, what are the post limits? Or where can I find them? Might have to start multi-quoting in my replies.

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10 posts a day I believe is the cutoff.

The content form is irrelevant in this case, whether it is a dungeon, rabanastre, or savage. I'm saying that people of all shapes and flavors give advice (whether solicited or unsolicited) and not all advice is created equal. Anecdotally, the advice given I've witnessed is often flat out incorrect or misguided most of the time AND that's just based on the knowledge I have. Imagine all the misinformation on things I don't know well enough to make a correction on.

The poster mentioned that they were "very good" and I provided evidence that very heavily likely indicated otherwise, in an effort to demonstrate to other players that you should be careful who you take advice from.

I'll give you a personal example. One O4S pull I made a mistake (sigh east coast ping) and my provoke didn't go off before I cast Rage of Halone after one of the threat resets. Our healer ended up getting targeted for the Aero III, which wasn't the end of the world, I simply used cover and we went on with no issues to wipe later to Omega. I even said in chat, shit my bad, missed the provoke before my RoH.

The other tank gave me some unsolicited advice how to get threat. He went into this long spiel about how I need to make sure we're voke shirking so we have threat and don't lose it, (which is a true statement technically, but is also 100% irrelevant to the issue) due to O4S aggro resetting prior to that mechanic. Let's not forget that this same tank was averaging a mere 1,600 DPS in ~ 336 ilvl (no crafted). For reference, I averaged 1,700 DPS during Susano EX in i297 gear in shield oath full time 2 weeks after SB launch.

In all forms of content, people give advice, sometimes its solid and well founded and other times its misguided at best, downright harmful at worst. It's important to make sure there's a distinction.

Case in point: The post above mine. That is not good advice.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

In all of this, I forgot to ask about the only mech in the whole raid that I can't overcome: Argath gnawing dread + trepidation combo. I really suck at moving in the way I want to so I thought I'd ask if anyone knows at what time he does this combo and where's the best place to be when he does it so I have some time to work the gnawing dread out.

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The easiest way to resolve this is to quickly tap your forward key repeatedly until you get the direction correct then hold it down. This forces the spinning hand icon to move incredibly slowly allowing you to get it right and then simply move forward by holding forward down.

I think it's because Hashmal in particular is endless AOEs. I RDM during this fight (trying for dat caster body) and it's soul crushing to see someone raise right when he's doing an AOE, have them complete an action that isn't a self cure of some kind, and then immediately die again. I got in the habit of tossing a cure to anyone I raised even though I'm not a healer.

Dodging the half-arena swipe of doom forced me to start hanging around the east-west axis at all times when not actively dodging. This helped quite a bit.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

I think it's because Hashmal in particular is endless AOEs. I RDM during this fight (trying for dat caster body) and it's soul crushing to see someone raise right when he's doing an AOE, have them complete an action that isn't a self cure of some kind, and then immediately die again. I got in the habit of tossing a cure to anyone I raised even though I'm not a healer.

Dodging the half-arena swipe of doom forced me to start hanging around the east-west axis at all times when not actively dodging. This helped quite a bit.

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Once you die on that boss you are honestly as good as dead, with that weakness you will keep dying and ressing at inapporpriate times because, surprise, there is no appropriate time...

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Originally Posted by Synrin

Once you die on that boss you are honestly as good as dead, with that weakness you will keep dying and ressing at inapporpriate times because, surprise, there is no appropriate time...

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Actually, not so much anymore, as the new weakness doesn't make you take more damage. It just reduces how much you deal. A well timed heal after you get ressed, and you're laughing all the way to the bank. It's the "Unnerved" stacks you need to worry about.

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Originally Posted by Synrin

Once you die on that boss you are honestly as good as dead, with that weakness you will keep dying and ressing at inapporpriate times because, surprise, there is no appropriate time...

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Except, didn't they change the weakness to be reduced damage dealt rather than reduced HP?

It all comes down to timing. And yes, it is completely possible to resurrect at an appropriate time so that you aren't taking the raid wide AoE. But, sadly, that costs attention, and as proven by many fights in the game...that is a very rare currency for a lot of people.

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But all of them are avoidable if you pay attention and... actually do the mechanics?

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No shit 1-shots are avoidable if you know what to do and are constantly situationally aware of it. For the people that aren't though, having everything just kill you is not really the best definition of a good learning curve.

I didn't read most of the thread, but to answer the title question, I notice players dodging the double command towers in the last phase and then forget that there are also the purple AOEs going out at the same time, so they stand in them and die. Then, when the healers are dead, the party can't be healed up for Quake IV. This is usually how I end up dying.


Cheers.

I got to go into Rabanastre for the first time I think on Saturday. t was this fight that cased people to start dropping.I really wish I could tell you how a casual takes the fight on, but I couldn't tell what was going on. My computer was never meant as a gaming computer (it was for college and I am getting a year old gaming computer soon) and my frame rate generally sits at around 16. For some reason, the bosses in this raid drop it even below that making the fights more difficult than it needs to be. I won't be going back in until I get my new computer, but some people (and I mean some) may be in the same boat....just playing on a potato that needs to be retired. Maybe I should have just dumped this into the duty finder thread to apologize.

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Originally Posted by Synrin

Once you die on that boss you are honestly as good as dead, with that weakness you will keep dying and ressing at inapporpriate times because, surprise, there is no appropriate time...

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You have ten seconds of invulnerability after a raise that is canceled if you use any skill or ability. Wait a couple seconds after getting back on your feet so the healers can top you up.

Unfortunately a lot of players simply lack situational awareness. You see it a lot in Rival Wings. Even though enemy mechs are clearly displayed on the map it's possible for nobody in an alliance to notice them until after they've blasted a tower into rubble or charged right into their base to assault the core.

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Originally Posted by DevonEllwood

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Oh yay! I can post again! No reason to apologize. I'm not referencing first or second timers in my original post. Though it may seem that way, my comments were largely directed at players who have more than enough experience in this fight, and yet as an alliance, die together to the same things over and over again. No worries...

Also, I understand the whole aspect with your computer - my laptop could barely handle fighting Garuda. My FPS were fine, but it would get pretty hot, and that wasn't a risk I was willing to chance, so I ended up getting a PS4. (Helps that there were other games I wanted for it too). Maybe not the best option, because you have to buy a new license, but an option nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

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Touche. I can't dispute it when you put it that way. Often times, unless one knows better, it can be tough to figure out what's actually good advice, and what advice actually works. You know how long it took PUGs to finally use the '1' waymark to mark positions in Omega Savage?

Seriously, a lot of players thought (some still do) that saying their spots in chat was more than good enough...but without discord, sometimes that isn't good enough. I haven't touched O4S personally because I haven't built up enough confidence to try it on any of my roles. How touch is it compared to Week 1 O3S?

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Originally Posted by Pells

You have ten seconds of invulnerability after a raise that is canceled if you use any skill or ability. Wait a couple seconds after getting back on your feet so the healers can top you up.

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^ Your healers want you to know this. If you don't push any buttons except moving, you will not get instakilled after taking a raise. Please give us a couple seconds to get your health back up, especially if you're not the only one who died.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

If it helps, what I usually do is keep him focus targeted and when I see the cast for 'Control Tower', I get ready to move to the middle. After the towers rise, I go near them and after Hashmal cuts them, I watch to see which direction they slide. It makes it easier for me personally to then dodge appropriately. Maybe give that a try, see if it helps at all.

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Thanks for the tip. :) Will keep that in my mind.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Touche. I can't dispute it when you put it that way. Often times, unless one knows better, it can be tough to figure out what's actually good advice, and what advice actually works. You know how long it took PUGs to finally use the '1' waymark to mark positions in Omega Savage?

Seriously, a lot of players thought (some still do) that saying their spots in chat was more than good enough...but without discord, sometimes that isn't good enough. I haven't touched O4S personally because I haven't built up enough confidence to try it on any of my roles. How touch is it compared to Week 1 O3S?

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I do and it's a life saver honestly. It gives clear indication of responsibility and accountability (like a parser ;p).

Current O4S is much harder than week 1 O3S IMO for several reasons, top 2 of which:

1) Good players are done with the fight. Week 1 O3S had higher concentrations of good players.

2) O4S mechanics are very dynamic in that you need to adjust based on other members. Historically, the FF14 community is incredibly bad at this, and the game design further complicates it by everything being a one shot.

You'll see DPS who are so blind that they can't dodge a giant black hole moving towards them. You'll see players who if they don't get the position their used too, it's like the world is ending because they can't grasp how to pick a different spot. You'll see people who have NO idea how to adjust on the fly when things go awry and wipe the group. I could go on but I hope you get my point lol.

That said, O4S is a very fun and rewarding fight and I strongly encourage you to participate even if it's a bit painful. If you were on Primal i'd go with you, but alas.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

^ Your healers want you to know this. If you don't push any buttons except moving, you will not get instakilled after taking a raise. Please give us a couple seconds to get your health back up, especially if you're not the only one who died.

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I've always personally found moving to even get me killed. Standing still always works for sure though. I've never timed it, but I don't think it was 10s post being able to move your character, maybe 10s including the entire animation.

One thing is the massive number of insta-kills in that fight. You can get crushed by a tower if you don't move the right way quick enough. Or you think you move the right way on the double fall and move right into the path of the other one. Someone can crowd you in with red circles of death you just keep getting hit by until you die. You can get REALLY boned if you're the group by the door and he does his flaming arm on that side, since groups are encouraged to stay by markers as much as possible to be ready for sand spheres and to be in the right areas for golems. That one really hurts because the attack doesn't kill you. It's that fast-acting debuff. People can live if you can get it cleansed quick enough, but it's a very slim window.

Another thing is the murder dominoes that can happen with just one mistake from a single player. Someone from A brings their stack mechanic over to B's spot? That whole party goes down. Or as I mentioned with the red circles of death, someone crowding multiple people and giving them nowhere safe to run.

A third thing I've noticed is lag. I call this raid Laganastre because at some point nearly every raid, someone goes "Is anyone else lagging?" in either party chat or alliance and a chorus of "You too?" or "Yep" follows them. I usually only see it on Mateus, but occasionally Hashmal as well. And lag in that fight along with the mechanics it can cause you to mess up can be a raid killer.

The guy has way more AoEs and outgoing damage than any other boss in the raid. Not only that, but it seems several AoEs are outwardly designed to bait players into other AoEs. It's a rude awakening to most players - there's a reason why I consider Hashmal to be harder than O1S, for instance. The fight basically treats the entire alliance like a set of dominoes. One mistake can knock out a third of the alliance, if not more. People targeted by the circle AoEs could end up cutting off other players' escape routes through poor positioning (especially during dash + AoE combo), and the other players die through no real fault of their own. If the player that died because someone else cut off their escape route happens to be a healer or the top DPS in the alliance, or even worse, the main tank... Oh, boy.

I find most wipes, if they don't happen due to exploding sand orbs, tend to occur during the distance-based hammer + red circles combo, resulting in the adds that spawn immediately afterwards cleaning house with the rest of the alliance. This happens because everyone doesn't properly stack in time, meaning people that DO stack get caught in the AoEs of anyone targeted that didn't stack as they try to escape. Saving sprint for this situation allows one to easily escape, but many players don't seem to realize that.

It's not bad design by any means. But it actually is the kind of fight that you'd expect from a lower tier Savage raid.

As an aside to Bards: Pay attention when the dash is happening. You might be able to save someone caught in the dash with your Warden's Paean. Warden's Paean turns the attack from a near instant kill to a very high damaging AoE. Usually, a healer doesn't have any time at all to heal or remove the bleeding debuff before it ticks and the player dies, but a Bard can outright prevent the bleeding debuff from taking hold.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

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Fair points. That brings up a mild thought that I've had before - I am wary, but curious what a next level of 24-mans would be like. Pure chaos, I imagine, but a 24-man on a Savage/EX level of difficulty interests me, though I'm sure it would be like Ultimate Bahamut-lite in terms of how difficult it is and how many players would actually play it.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

It's not bad design by any means. But it actually is the kind of fight that you'd expect from a lower tier Savage raid.

As an aside to Bards: Pay attention when the dash is happening. You might be able to save someone caught in the dash with your Warden's Paean. Warden's Paean turns the attack from a near instant kill to a very high damaging AoE. Usually, a healer doesn't have any time at all to heal or remove the bleeding debuff before it ticks and the player dies, but a Bard can outright prevent the bleeding debuff from taking hold.

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Totally agree on the first point. I enjoy the fight, but it does seem out of place in a 24 man.

And I normally whm but I've run brd sometimes when friends wanted to heal and your last statement is on point. I've been able to save people by getting that off them asap with WP or preventing it beforehand. Even when I'm ready as a whm, it can be difficult to get Esuna to hit at just that right moment because the debuff is hella fast acting.

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

I've always personally found moving to even get me killed. Standing still always works for sure though. I've never timed it, but I don't think it was 10s post being able to move your character, maybe 10s including the entire animation.

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Really? Interseting. I'd be curious what the exact mechanic actually is. Standing still is pretty good advice then, since we're sure it works.

Whenever a tower comes up, I always keep an eye on the alliance grid to see how many people die.

Theres always a few.

The really weird thing is that the last couple times I've endured the horrors of Rabnasty the groups have been able to one-shot Hashmal, but wiped to Mateus and Rofocale of all bosses, mostly due to insta-wipe mechanics (and one sudden mass-afk wave that got everyone slaughtered almost instantly, which was incredibly bizarre). Although, when I think about it, I think in all the runs I've done of it there was really only one time Hashmal wiped the group. But at the same time I used to be able to get through entire runs without a single wipe. It's almost baffling how much the quality of groups has been lately, to the point I actually dread running it at this point.

Cause your mom

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Originally Posted by MysticDreamer

Cause your mom

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Hashmmal, Bringer of Order, Mother of All Failures

Varying people have varying levels of skill at varying times?

You don't say! Someone get this to the internets!! The people deserve to know!

I ran it yesterday with a friend and only died to the pillars once (thankfully..). Sadly was still death a lot thanks to both of our healers being just bad..the other time of the fight I was rezzing people a lot (especially those two healers). I also for the first time truly noticed that the pillars have a different "length" where they are cut and they will always fall to the side that is "longer". Now I might finally not die on them. I never had the time to notice that so I can understand that people die to it if they dont see that.

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Originally Posted by ChaoticCrimson

But at the same time I used to be able to get through entire runs without a single wipe.

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And then you get this:
https://i.gyazo.com/0a0e3380c1c50e19...245204a592.png

Will you accept, out of pure curiosity?
Or abandon that sinking ship before it even started for you?

Because the tanks sometimes fight for aggro which makes the boss spin and kill everyone.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

And then you get this:
https://i.gyazo.com/0a0e3380c1c50e19...245204a592.png

Will you accept, out of pure curiosity?
Or abandon that sinking ship before it even started for you?

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I have to admit, I'd take it to sate my morbid curiosity.

I think the main issue with Royal City of Rabanstre is that all 4 bosses punish you quite badly for ignoring mecanics (in the case of the last boss it punishes the whole aliance for 1 person ignoring mecanics)

I don’t; have yet to let a giant column land on me, and I’ve run the place a minimum of once a week, often 2-3 times per week (early on in the patch cycle at least).

I've had players tab out and just follow people in 24man runs lately, they just dont care and think well i'm not needed so i'll go play league or something in the background. Also had healers wipe us cuz they've been like we can dps the other alliances can heal you. the state of mind from a lot of players lately is just very bad. Sometimes it even runs into toxic.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Because the tanks sometimes fight for aggro which makes the boss spin and kill everyone.

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It happens more often in the older alliance raids. Ran the alliance roulette with a few friends last night, me on DRK, one a MNK, and the other RDM. The other two tanks, a PLD and DRK, both had tank stance on the whole time. I only popped it on when we were sucked in by Ozma, when the succubus and her friends spawned on the second boss, the stone face thing before Ozma, and when I dropped down to help with the pillar things on first boss. Otherwise, Grit was never on me.

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Originally Posted by Niraye

I've had players tab out and just follow people in 24man runs lately, they just dont care and think well i'm not needed so i'll go play league or something in the background. Also had healers wipe us cuz they've been like we can dps the other alliances can heal you. the state of mind from a lot of players lately is just very bad. Sometimes it even runs into toxic.

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The worse part is that the raid actually punishes you for this kind of behaviour as well as mechanic skiping, such as the Unnerved mechaic on the last boss

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Originally Posted by Ageofwar

The worse part is that the raid actually punishes you for this kind of behaviour as well as mechanic skiping, such as the Unnerved mechaic on the last boss

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I wish the punishment was even worse because it does not stop there behavior at all and it seems to be carrying over into dungeons now.

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Originally Posted by Niraye

I wish the punishment was even worse because it does not stop there behavior at all and it seems to be carrying over into dungeons now.

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well there are people in the comunity that wanted harder normal content and.....

I think we got it with the 24 man raid

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Originally Posted by Arrius

And then you get this:
https://i.gyazo.com/0a0e3380c1c50e19...245204a592.png

Will you accept, out of pure curiosity?
Or abandon that sinking ship before it even started for you?

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At that point, I admit I'd probably want to see just what the heck was going on there.

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Originally Posted by ChaoticCrimson

At that point, I admit I'd probably want to see just what the heck was going on there.

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I had one of those experiences...they were already fighting the last boss. And I was a tank...so free clear for the week(even got my loot drop without doing any fighting!)