How can you continue to ignore monk completely?

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Originally Posted by qbansammich

Yes they’re better than monk when it comes to utility etc, but monk brings the highest damage

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That's not remotely true, https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/21/.
Monks are not the worst still but this doesn't take in account the fact that ninja/dragoon in a party setting outdps it before of all the buff that they bring to the table (For the dragoon who is the no 1 dps with the MCH/BRD buff)

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Originally Posted by qbansammich

not to mention monk is currently the strongest melee rn lol

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That's DRG by a huge margain.
Monk is now able to stand neck and neck with Ninja at least.

only if theres a brd or/and mch in the group, than Drg is probably by far better., on the other hand: comps with 3(-4) melee, mnk rocks hard

but some raids tend to force 2 melee / 2 ranged (or caster) for mechanics..., still rd/mch can be "melee"- like, if they can stay in melee range as much as possible, to profit from the mnks buff

imo with mnks buff, smn still got a slight too strong nerf (could have left painflare or wyvertrance unnerfed, smn got hit hard)

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Originally Posted by Bl4ckBunny

That's not remotely true, https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/21/.
Monks are not the worst still but this doesn't take in account the fact that ninja/dragoon in a party setting outdps it before of all the buff that they bring to the table (For the dragoon who is the no 1 dps with the MCH/BRD buff)

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hm, even according to the link you provided, MNK is second mele after SAM... DRG is behind in its own damage.
right now MNK is in an OK spot, we got quite a few things we bring to the table. Mantra helps in mass heal situations. Brotherhood in opener, helps a lot to push other classes DPS on the opener part. + our damage is rather high up there. only behind SMN BLM and SAM. it doesn't even matter if you switch percentiles around, rankings stay relatively the same.

although I do agree that MNK has not changed much since 2.0, right now it is a really good choice for mele slot, i think all this fuss about it is unjustified as of right now.

You're right, on some points, MNK can hold his "own", DPS-wise the class isn't bad rather the opposite, I still doubt the fact that you would prefer a MNK to a DRG/NIN in a party, DRG can easily out damage MNK (With a BRD/MCH) + Battle Litany (Brotherhood giving 5% more damage just seems trash compare to that) and NIN have his vulnerability debuff (And SAM just have flat out more damage.) As for the 4 melee you have in a party less incentive of wanting a MNK to compare to the 3 others.
the problem that MNK has and that people are complaining since HW is that monk is the same just like in 2.0.

Lemme explain my point: the thing is I think the major problem that monk has in HW and SB is that they have nothing to add to the current job compare to Ninja and Dragoon, you build your momentum and basically try to keep it while punching your way to victory. HW and SB only tried to patch up the monk trying to give him tools to do damage when you lose GL3 (TK) and try to have more GL3 timer (RoE), the rest imo is easily forgettable/memeable (Tackle Mastery **cough** And pray for RNG gods with Deep Meditation and Brotherhood).
TL;DR: MNK is alright, you can do your job with it, aka dealing damage but it is a clunky job just like MCH and it lacks flavor compare to the 3 others + some skills are flat out useless (OIL, Purification, Tackle mastery poorly done etc ..)

They could give us an ability that you can spam to keep up greased lightning stacks during transitions. That would require way less predicting than tornado kick.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

They could give us an ability that you can spam to keep up greased lightning stacks during transitions. That would require way less predicting than tornado kick.

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Personally, I’d like to see Perfect Balance changed to just give 3 greased lightning stacks immediately rather than allow you to build them in 3 GCDs. But things aren’t bad as they are.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

They could give us an ability that you can spam to keep up greased lightning stacks during transitions. That would require way less predicting than tornado kick.

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That would just be an "Enhanced Form Shift" trait, that allows GL to be Refreshed when formshifting from Coeurl Form to Opo-Opo form.

And at that point Riddle of Earth can be thrown into a dumpster where it belongs.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Personally, I’d like to see Perfect Balance changed to just give 3 greased lightning stacks immediately rather than allow you to build them in 3 GCDs. But things aren’t bad as they are.

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I just want to see either our unique need for separate weaponskills during our steps-in-combo-chain built upon outside of just PB, as well, or the skill adjusted to allow for consolidation while still achieving its traditional increase to rotational burst/freedom.

Yeah, riddle of Earth does feel like another tornado kick mechanic. Honestly I can't understand why they do not just focus on keeping greased lightning up. All these other mechanics they keep throwing in are overcomplicating things when we already deal with having a fast attack speed and loads of positional attacks.

edit: Hold up, I was thinking I had misread Riddle of Earth when he said it was a damage buff. It's not a damage buff. It is purely a defense boost... It is a useful utility then. I'd be more concerned if we had to somehow incorporate getting punched into our DPS.

I find Riddle of Earth rather useful in o5s and o7s to keep the GL stacks on the head on and when boss drops from lift of in 7...

MNK is OK because MNK has always been OK. There's nothing wrong with the solid core MNK has, but because there's "nothing wrong", improving on it seems weird. Even more so when everything outside of the basic MNK rotation just feels like it was added with duct tape. But that's just me

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

MNK is OK because MNK has always been OK. There's nothing wrong with the solid core MNK has, but because there's "nothing wrong", improving on it seems weird. Even more so when everything outside of the basic MNK rotation just feels like it was added with duct tape. But that's just me

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Of course, MNK is okay, the core is 'functional', the class works that's not the problem. The problem is we have the same class since 2.0 + added duct tape, and this doesn't work that's why people are complaining. It's like BLM, the core is good and defining for the class but instead of duct tapping the class problems they added and improved that core gameplay, it goes for every DPS ... But MNK. So we still deal with stuff like OIP, Tackle Mastery, Purification, TK, RNG Brotherhood and RNG Deep Meditation.

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Originally Posted by Bl4ckBunny

Of course, MNK is okay, the core is 'functional', the class works that's not the problem. The problem is we have the same class since 2.0 + added duct tape, and this doesn't work that's why people are complaining. It's like BLM, the core is good and defining for the class but instead of duct tapping the class problems they added and improved that core gameplay, it goes for every DPS ... But MNK. So we still deal with stuff like OIP, Tackle Mastery, Purification, TK, RNG Brotherhood and RNG Deep Meditation.

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Not to mention removing what little rotation complexity the class had with the removal of Touch of Death and Fracture.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

MNK is OK because MNK has always been OK. There's nothing wrong with the solid core MNK has, but because there's "nothing wrong", improving on it seems weird. Even more so when everything outside of the basic MNK rotation just feels like it was added with duct tape. But that's just me

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Technically, until now the core of Monk included control over when we reach a particular Form, due to always having at least 2 stance-less skills to allow for any mod value (Coeurl in 3, 4, or 5, for mods 0, 1, and 2, and then back to 0, vs. 3 forms). That most fundamental part was taken out with Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

MNK is OK because MNK has always been OK. There's nothing wrong with the solid core MNK has, but because there's "nothing wrong", improving on it seems weird. Even more so when everything outside of the basic MNK rotation just feels like it was added with duct tape. But that's just me

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Monk is ok, but that's not a reason not to add to them.
DRG didn't particularly need Nastrond or Mirage dive. Ninja didn't particularly need Helltoad of Bhacvaka (sp?). But it was stuff to enhance them as a job. There has to be a way to add to Monk outside of adding random oGCDs and stupid gimmicky tackles to them.
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Off topic, I just learned a few days ago that Wind Tackle is being used as an opener to incorporate TK into your RoF window. I really hope SE doesn't see this and think the tackles are ok. Though I do respect that there's a way to make semi-normal use of TK.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Monk is ok, but that's not a reason not to add to them.
DRG didn't particularly need Nastrond or Mirage dive. Ninja didn't particularly need Helltoad of Bhacvaka (sp?). But it was stuff to enhance them as a job. There has to be a way to add to Monk outside of adding random oGCDs and stupid gimmicky tackles to them.

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I am not against having stuff added to MNK, the reference duct tape is how out of place it looks, how forced some of these gimmicks that MNK as a job gets. Like Shurrikhan mentions, MNK had its own pace with forms, which were thrown out the window w/PB and now, like you mention, people making the most of RoW to find a way to use TK, these are obviously jarring steps and don't flow with the job, but we work with them

I mean as Exiled_Tomberry and myself said, being able to 'adapt' with the shitty changes that they made aren't an excuse :D in the end. We would like an overall on monk for HW and SB but ... I guess we can hope and see.