Inferno Totem drop rate

We checked in with the dev. team about the drop rates of Inferno Totems and Kupo Nut Charms.

They let us know that they are looking into the following options for the drop rate adjustments:

• Increase the drop rate for both items
• Make them have 100% drop rate, but reduce the number that can be obtained at one time

We would love to hear your feedback on the above two options. ^_^

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

We checked in with the dev. team about the drop rates of Inferno Totems and Kupo Nut Charms.

They let us know that they are looking into the following options for the drop rate adjustments:

• Increase the drop rate for both items
• Make them have 100% drop rate, but reduce the number that can be obtained at one time

We would love to hear your feedback on the above two options. ^_^

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If option #2 keeps it so that you can trade the totems/charms that are still in the loot pool, that one sounds great.

EDIT: and to be doubly clear, if option #2 means that it's one 100% drop of a totem/nut for the party, one totem/nut per run, that would not be good. Someone pointed it out that SE would be that crazy, and I agree.

The more I think about it the more wary I get. Some clarification if this is per-person or per-party would be appreciated. Thank you in advance!

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

We checked in with the dev. team about the drop rates of Inferno Totems and Kupo Nut Charms.

They let us know that they are looking into the following options for the drop rate adjustments:

• Increase the drop rate for both items
• Make them have 100% drop rate, but reduce the number that can be obtained at one time

We would love to hear your feedback on the above two options. ^_^

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Remove totems/charms, keep weapon drop the same, have weapons drop to loot.

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# Make them have 100% drop rate, but reduce the number that can be obtained at one time

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What does this even mean? 1 drop per group? Cause that would be super dumb. Nuts/Totems should be the consolation prize for when you don't get a weapon instead of Dark Matter Grade 5

Hey Rukkirii!

Hope you had a pleasent New Years, both memorable and that you still remember it. ;)

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

[*]Make them have 100% drop rate, but reduce the number that can be obtained at one time

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Just for clarification does this mean a 100% drop rate per individual or "per win" as a group? Like for example would this mean 1 guaranteed totem drop per person or per party?

I've got about 90 wins now I think, maybe 350+ fights in total. 5/7 on weapons and currently have 6 totems so I'll be done soon but for future reference I really do think 10 wins per weapon is a fair time investment, hardcore or not.

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Originally Posted by totallynotme

Well after reading the whole thread, the most sensible solution appears to be:

- Remove weapon drops completely
- Make totems/nuts a 100% drop (per individual) and
- Make totems/nuts untradeable

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*deep breath*
Okay, my answer is dependant on one thing. My final intent is: If the party can't pile all of their charms/totems in a single person, a guaranteed drop for each party member is better.
So, thing is, at 100% drop rate but reduced number, is it a small number per party, or per character? If it is one per character, at 100% rate, I prefer that.
Otherwise, simply increase the drop rate

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

We checked in with the dev. team about the drop rates of Inferno Totems and Kupo Nut Charms.

They let us know that they are looking into the following options for the drop rate adjustments:

• Increase the drop rate for both items
• Make them have 100% drop rate, but reduce the number that can be obtained at one time

We would love to hear your feedback on the above two options. ^_^

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Does "reduce the number that can be obtained at one time" seem a bit vague or is it just me? I am not sure I understand. Does that mean it is guaranteed to drop for like... 1-2 random party members, instead of a 1% (rough estimate) chance for every individual in the party to receive something other than dark matter?

Seconding the "what does this mean exactly" before I actually give feedback. 100% drop rate per person, or per group? And if it's per-person, does the remainder mean "with a very low chance of getting two", or something? Would this cause the totems to bypass the loot pool as per Ifrit weapons to prevent one person getting a weapon in two or three runs if everyone cooperated? Or would that be allowed?

If you could please clarify what you mean with the 2nd option, that would be great. It sounds like one person each run will always get a totem, multiple people MAY get it but not as many people as was possible before. That sounds more beneficial in the long run because I've never had totems drop for more than 3 people.

I think Will Brannigan's suggestion is also fair, to make the Totems and charms the consolation prize if you don't get a weapon. I'd be ok with the required totems/charms being increased to a reasonable amount. The only issue if that's the case is that it's somewhat unfriendly to random players in pickup groups (my LS usually needs to pick up 1-2 randoms when we run).

However, new players that haven't done the fights yet at all will benefit because they will have less of a rough time with drop rates and those of us that have done the fight dozens, maybe hundreds of times can finally finish off whatever we need from Ifrit. With new content coming in a month I think it's fine to help players get these items more quickly.

I don't think at the end of the day the pickup group issue is that big a deal. Most groups run quite a few times and everyone feeling like they are getting somewhere helps keep people motivated to stick together even if a run or two goes bad. This stuff is supposed to be dealt with a committed group, and is already casual-accessible by the fact that you can reenter quickly and now the fights are much easier to attempt multiple times, so I don't think the more dedicated players need to suffer for it further.

Also, getting rid of the Dark Matter consolation prize would help return its value to something reasonable.

Increase the drop rate for both items
Make them have 100% drop rate, but reduce the number that can be obtained at one time

The above 2 options seems disappointing. I guess it's talking about the drop rate as a pool for 8 ppl party.

The current drop rate is about 35% with 1-3 shared with 8 ppl?
So either increase to 60% drop rate for 1-3 totem shared with 8 ppl or 100% drop 1 totem shared with 8 ppl won't fix much.

Honestly, what is the dev expectation of how many wins we need for ifrit or moogle? Why not just make it simple? If they want us fight 100 times win to get 1 weapon, just make totem 100% drop to each person loot list and make it 100 totem per weapon. Even it's insane, extreme unlucky ppl still can get some progress. How many stories we have heard about unlucky and lucky ppl? One of the ls guy just got 3 ifrit weapons out of 4 wins and 1 moogle weapon by 1 win where some others at 0/40 on ifrit and ya my fd just got a ifrit bow after 20 wins but archer is the only class he is not 50

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

We checked in with the dev. team about the drop rates of Inferno Totems and Kupo Nut Charms.

They let us know that they are looking into the following options for the drop rate adjustments:

• Increase the drop rate for both items
• Make them have 100% drop rate, but reduce the number that can be obtained at one time

We would love to hear your feedback on the above two options. ^_^

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excelent news!

That second options seems a little scary.. sounds like it wouldn't change anything.

Increase drop rate for totems, keep weapons as is.

I also agree with the idea of having totems drop 100% of the time (unless a weapon dropped, obviously), and make the cost for each weapon higher. Something around 30~40 totems.

My suggestion would be to have two loot pools one with dark matter having 97% drop rate and 3% weapon rate which goes directly to the user, and the other loot pool having 100% nut/totem drop that would go to your loot list. that way you at least progress toward a weapon every run. right now im 2/44 on weapon drops and ive gotten 3 nuts total (two i gave away). soo i basically have done this 39 times for dark matter.

By loot pools i mean two seperate lists of items that can drop. so every time you would either get dark matter or a weapon, AND a nut.

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

Remove totems/charms, keep weapon drop the same, have weapons drop to loot.

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...This

/10 char

I like option #2, but only if each party member get a charm each fight.

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

Remove totems/charms, keep weapon drop the same, have weapons drop to loot.

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This. It's not the drop rate that's the problem. It's the fact that we have no control over distribution and see perfectly good weapons rot in the treasure chest.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

We checked in with the dev. team about the drop rates of Inferno Totems and Kupo Nut Charms.

They let us know that they are looking into the following options for the drop rate adjustments:

• Increase the drop rate for both items
• Make them have 100% drop rate, but reduce the number that can be obtained at one time

We would love to hear your feedback on the above two options. ^_^

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1 totem/nut per person per kill.

I have 10 kills of Ifrit now for only 1 totem.... sucks big time. Increase drop rate to 100% for everyone in the party.
It still would take 10 successful run for 1 weapon!!!

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

We checked in with the dev. team about the drop rates of Inferno Totems and Kupo Nut Charms.

They let us know that they are looking into the following options for the drop rate adjustments:

• Increase the drop rate for both items
• Make them have 100% drop rate, but reduce the number that can be obtained at one time

We would love to hear your feedback on the above two options. ^_^

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Most player that I talked with in game agree that 20 runs per weapon and 140 runs for all 7 weapon with no duplicate is about the good drop rate. (consider time to farm stone and fight itself, it will take 140 hours (5 hour per day for 28 days) without counting the wipe runs and time to form PT. it is enough for one repeat content. )

So if you make it 100% drop, please make it so that every person get one nut. I don't mind to completely remove the weapon drop this way.

P.S. if you refer to 1 nut drop per run. then it will took 140x8 = 1120 runs for the same static PT to get everybody 7/7 which is .... madness! You know right? 1120 hours is too much. (5 hours per day for half a year) (again not count PT forming time, afk, or wipe runs)

At 1 totem per party per win, I think 20 totems for a weapon is a bit too easy. As a weekend warrior, this would take me about 2 weeks to a month to obtain 1 weapon if I ran with a party willing to trade all the totems to me until I have enough. Given that these are the latest and greatest Primal Weapons, I think they should take about at least month or two for a player such as myself to obtain. A more reasonable price would be perhaps 30-40 totems. At this rate, I think for a player with average luck would probably have obtained at least one weapon dropped at random with that amount of wins and the totems would simply give an added advantage of being able to choose which weapon you get once you've amassed the required number of totems.

Of course, I also think the devs should consider reducing the amount of totems the Primal Weapons cost as they get older. For example, if the latest and greatest Primal Weapons costed 40-50 totems each, the ones from last patch could cost 30 and the ones before that could cost 20, and any older ones could cost 5-10 so that collectors may obtain them at a reasonable rate. This way, the hardcore demographic can get the longer grinds and rarer drops that they want for the latest and greatest and us casuals can get our hands on the "so last patch" toys.

No, but really, the totems/charms just seem so unnecessary. Why do we need them, again? There's a simpler way to solve this issue, and it feels dumb that all this work is going into a system that we don't need.

ie: Y U NO DROP TO LOOT

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Therion_Ichor

Or some more practical variant thereof.

Why should all the drops in this game be luck based?

Edit: Im sure something like this was already alluded to in the previous 14 pages. But that's because to everyone but SE, its blindingly obvious.

My only guess is that currently only X amount of totems can drop at once, say like 3-4? (You'll never get a time when all 6 pt members get one)

So they ar ethinking of reudcing that number, maybe to 1-2?

Since they are tradable this makes it OK imo.

But clarification is needed!

100% for EACH player after a win...yes pls!

I would like to offer up my linkshells data with the kupo nut charms. Unfortunately, we haven't done enough Ifrit's in 1.20 to make a good assumption if it needs an increase or not, but the general view point it seems is that the Totems have a horrid drop rate.

Anyways, here are our Good King Moggle Mog XII statistics.

http://notedls.com/kupo_nut.jpg

Obviously these drop rates don't reflect what everyone else is getting in the game, but from this data I personally don't believe making them 100% drop rate is needed (the nuts, cant say for the totems). Since multiples can drop at a single time, (most we've seen is 3 at a time) it seems that it will most definitely average out to more then 1 nut per run in the long run.

I think the larger issue at hand, which some have commented on is that these items (both the nuts and totems) aren't needed at all. Simply allowing the items to fall into the loot list is the easier fix to this issue. I'm not really sure why SE allowed for this to happen in Darkhold, but not in the Primal battles. Oh wait, I do. To create an incredibly frustrating and company-hating time sink. Grats? ;\

It would be wiser to allow players to blow on through content with nothing to do afterwards, then to piss on us while we ram our heads against our keyboards, watching items which we've already obtained drop one after another while someone else could have used it. I fear if this game gets "real", this is the kind of crap we'll have to deal with for larger numbers.

Better idea Yoshida and Co. Allow the weapons to drop into the loot pool, don't worry about players snatching up items and running off with them (ie. stealing). The community will deal with those players, with such low numbers across servers, people like that won't last very long.

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We just want to enjoy our game and the time we spend with it. To still be killing Ifrit after 300+ times just to get that last person his/her last item is NOT FUN. It's ridiculous. To see that it's possible to get nothing for 10-20 minutes of work is NOT FUN. It's ridiculous. Use this as motivation. Since players will blow on through content fast if the weapons drop to the loot pool, it should force you guys to create better and long lasting content for us to play with.

All of these instances are nice--correct steps for the future, but create something more grand each and every time. Create something worthwhile, create something with replay value. Your SE, you know how to create effective time sinks as well as replayable content, go back to your roots!

How about we make it so 1 weapon drop is guaranteed for the party, in someone's loot list, with a second one having a chance to drop, and getting rid of the totems? (of course that would need a proper need/greed system in place but I really prefer it to the current shit system even without need/greed options). Then the party can distribute the weapons as it sees fit.

I seriously don't care anymore if this system resembles WoW or whatever other MMO. End this fucking bullshit already. Last 24 fights IN A ROW dropped only DERP matter. IN a fucking ROW.

How exactly am I rewarded for putting the time and effort in to learn and kill Ifrit if this crap keeps going on? Thats a bullshit excuse and way to design "long-lasting end-game content". Do you know which other game has retarded drop rates like this? Cabal Online. A free-to-play fail. Is that what you are aspiring your game to be?

Other fix would be to keep weapon drops abysmally low, in inventory or loot list, and have 100% totem drops for EACH member every win. This will make it viable to also try Ifrit with a random group. And don't you even DARE coming in and farting around saying 10 wins for 1 weapon is not PERFECTLY reasonable. We would still be required to win the fight 70 times to kit out all our classes.

TLDR: Putting in the time to learn and prevail against a boss fight, Ifrit or whatever, SHOULD have some kind of meaningful reward. Make it so, either by 100% totems for everyone or weapons in lootlist or whatever REASONABLE way. If this keeps going on players will be gone from the game faster than a fart lights on fire. And rightfully so.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

We checked in with the dev. team about the drop rates of Inferno Totems and Kupo Nut Charms.

They let us know that they are looking into the following options for the drop rate adjustments:

• Increase the drop rate for both items
• Make them have 100% drop rate, but reduce the number that can be obtained at one time

We would love to hear your feedback on the above two options. ^_^

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Hi Rukkirii,

Thank you for providing us the latest information and feedback request from Yoshida-san and Co. I'd vote for Option "#3" as seen in many threads:

• Allow the Weapons to be dropped into the Loot Pool, to be passed to others as we so chose.

Please let Yoshida-san know that we understand that they don't have enough content to keep us busy between patches right now, but let *us* (the Players) decide how we want to spend our time.


SE doesn't need to force a horrible Time Sink on us (this Forced Untradeable Loot Into Your Inventory); it's really aggravating the majority of the player base, without question.


If they won't budge on this, then I'd vote for Option #1, which is Increase the Drop Rate on Both (Types) of Items.


Because right now, some people have been getting more than 1 Nut / Totem per Fight, so Option 2 is potentially reducing the # of Nuts / Totems you get, for the sake of guaranteeing just 1 per fight.


Thanks.

If they don't want everyone running around with weapons, they should just make the fights harder and drop 100% for everyone.

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

Remove totems/charms, keep weapon drop the same, have weapons drop to loot.

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This............

Making the weapons drop to loot and able to be traded opens the way for the selling of the weapons which is probably what they are trying to avoid.

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Originally Posted by BlackomegaKingofwaffles

Making the weapons drop to loot and able to be traded opens the way for the selling of the weapons which is probably what they are trying to avoid.

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If someone wants to pay the group to let them have a weapon drop that is their right...personally, I'd rather just be able to have the weapons drop to loot for the simple reason 'KK doesn't like farming mobs forever so everyone can get the drop they want.' I'd rather be able to pass the bow to the archer who needs it (friend or not) than see it disappear because I already have one in my inventory. Heck, even if they made it so weapons still only dropped to individual players and the player couldn't trade it via the loot system unless they already had the same weapon, I'd be cooler with that.

Ideally though, get rid of key items, just let the weapons drop to loot and let each individual group decide how to split up the bounty. Sure, there will be dicks who 'steal' loot etc. but in a small community it doesn't take long for players to get a rep. good or bad. Just let us have control over who gets the weapon we as a GROUP worked to get.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

If someone wants to pay the group to let them have a weapon drop that is their right...personally, I'd rather just be able to have the weapons drop to loot for the simple reason 'KK doesn't like farming mobs forever so everyone can get the drop they want.' I'd rather be able to pass the bow to the archer who needs it (friend or not) than see it disappear because I already have one in my inventory. Heck, even if they made it so weapons still only dropped to individual players and the player couldn't trade it via the loot system unless they already had the same weapon, I'd be cooler with that.

Ideally though, get rid of key items, just let the weapons drop to loot and let each individual group decide how to split up the bounty. Sure, there will be dicks who 'steal' loot etc. but in a small community it doesn't take long for players to get a rep. good or bad. Just let us have control over who gets the weapon we as a GROUP worked to get.

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The vision that SE is having, I think, is gilsellers perfecting a seven-man kill of Ifrit and then selling Ifrit's weapons for money. You pay, you sit and watch while they kill, you get the weapon.

Well, I'd prefer they punish anyone who uses or is a RMT rather than making good and honest players jump through hoops. Also, if SE is worried about having an army of elite, rank 50 RMT's maybe they should look into changing the enforcement, and their watching of RMT activities. As the system is now, it discourages group cooperation, helping others get their weapons (it could literally take 100+ successful runs to get someone 2-3 weapons they actually want atm), and players in general, from doing these battles. It just seems silly to me that SE can't make weapons drop in the loot so people can pass/lot them as needed and still prevent RMT's from taking advantage of the system.

Being overly cautious about RMT to the point where it became a hindrance to actual players was one of the reasons why the game was so bad in the first place. As long as this stuff can't be monopolized by RMT there's no reason to make regular players suffer just because there is a chance of RMT selling the items.

QFT....god damn Tanaka. This is your game now Yoshida, fix this shit.

Between myself and 2 LS mates in a Ifrit pickup group, we got 7 totems in around 5-6 fights last night which was enough to complete a set of 10 for two of us, and this isn't counting the 4 or 5 that dropped to other people in the group. After that and thinking about it some more, if the totems consistently dropped that often it would be great. I now feel raising the drop rates of the totems/nuts in general would be more beneficial and it helps everyone more than the other option which mostly benefits Linkshells while somewhat harming pickup groups.

The totems and nuts are a sanity check for the randomness. The fact that they are also random is absurd. I don't mean that in a hurtful tone, its just that it is illogical and self-defeating. Please see this.

Every victory, you should be able to make real progress (not fake random number progress).

Option 2 if you must. Should someone really need to kill ifrit more than 10 times for a drop? They're not really proving anything beyond that point and have clearly defeated the content.

I think Totem and Nut DR are fine atm. My ls did 10 moogle runs the other day and almost everyone got 1 drop in that time and Ifrit last night in 6 runs dropped at least 1 totem for every member some even got 2. Plus Ifrit goes down in less than 8 min on average for us so a few hrs usually yields 6-9 wins. I totally agree it is a time sink but I enjoy the Ifrit battle myself.

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Originally Posted by Arksniper

I think Totem and Nut DR are fine atm. My ls did 10 moogle runs the other day and almost everyone got 1 drop in that time and Ifrit last night in 6 runs dropped at least 1 totem for every member some even got 2. Plus Ifrit goes down in less than 8 min on average for us so a few hrs usually yields 6-9 wins. I totally agree it is a time sink but I enjoy the Ifrit battle myself.

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Killed ifrit 20x in a row last night and not a single totem. That's bullshit! :(

The problem with the logic is that you wouldn't need to RMT if you have an LS whose willing to get you the weapon you're going to need for another fight.

How about give us a totem every drop and you can do 10 totems for a random weapon you don't have or 20 totems for your pick of the litter.

To be fair we're going to be going for Ifrit weapons, Moogle Weapons, Garuda Weapons, Leviathan Weapons and probably even more after that. If you beat Ifrit 10 times you deserve something other than Grade 5 Dark matter which will give you less on the AH than beating Ifrit will.

I don't think it's asking too much for SE to decide how many wins is enough to be worth an Ifrit weapon and to alter the totems to that end. It's going to be hard for FFXIV to be sustainable if people have to brute force it that many times for that long.

Besides... they want us to dual subscribe to FFXI right? Give us some dang free time to do so then. Especially since they're doing the same crap on FFXI where you have to do a boss dozens of times to hope to get a drop that's relevant.

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

Remove totems/charms, keep weapon drop the same, have weapons drop to loot.

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this.... or leave drop rates same and still add wepons to loot pool....