Please, NEVER nerf RDM!

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Originally Posted by Vorx

Wow.. now i remember why i took a few months off from this forum..

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You should stay away more

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

As a RDM main, I have no problem with them taking a nerfbat to the face.

Wait, you mean 570+ potency every three seconds and more support quality than SMN could ever dream of is perfectly reasonable? Yeah, I'd be amazed if it wasn't nerfed at this point.

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570 every three seconds? Damn that's impressive. But to be sure, gcd does still stand in the way there, so your actually a tad off.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

570 every three seconds? Damn that's impressive. But to be sure, gcd does still stand in the way there, so your actually a tad off.

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More like every 4-5 seconds, since the second spell in dual cast chain starts the GCD again. That also assumes impact/Verfire/Verstone is always available.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

More like every 4-5 seconds, since the second spell in dual cast chain starts the GCD again. That also assumes impact/Verfire/Verstone is always available.

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Yup. Not to mention that while the cast time is 1.83, gcd is slightly longer than that still so you're bound by gcd no matter what.

BLM got no utility, except mana shift, with little to no penalty at all in UI. Not to mention, casting a bliz spell after ressing is leagues faster recovery that af smn or rdm who hit AF or lucid dreaming right before or sometime before dying. we wont look at those though.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

RDM plays almost exactly like 2.0 BLM did. despite the different proc buttons, replace it with fire 1, firestarter. the aoe was a little different, ther was fire 2. then f;are at the end of mp pool. Point is, community wanted BLM to be super complex because it be boring yo. Took the old gameplay out of BLM for a unnecessary jump in complexity. its stupid.

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That is exactly why i started this and got worried in the first place, just what you said. The community is full of people like this and any good class is quickly bombarded by "those types" that hate if their fav class can't do what the new one does. So they ban to gather, recruit to their cause, and eventually get it nerfed so bad its a disgrace to its former self. Sadly its happened time and again..

I don't think anyone is asking for RDM to become more complex, just that less complex jobs shouldn't be so rewarding.

I think red mage just needs some small potency nerfs. I don't think it's fair for them to do just as much damage as summoners and black mages when they're the bard of casters. Drop their dps by 200 or so. Red mage is meant to be the jack of all trades; master of none. I agree that black mage should be the samurai of casters. They should be doing big dick damage that rivals samurai. That's what a black mage is supposed to be about. High damage and no utility. Summoner should be in between.

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Originally Posted by Vorx

That is exactly why i started this and got worried in the first place, just what you said. The community is full of people like this and any good class is quickly bombarded by "those types" that hate if their fav class can't do what the new one does. So they ban to gather, recruit to their cause, and eventually get it nerfed so bad its a disgrace to its former self. Sadly its happened time and again..

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:) yeah its my sentiments as well, I think enochian pretty much killed it for me in 3.0 though later the af timer buff helped alot, it didnt matter by then, i was a BLM main at the end of 2.x, and I just felt it was horribly more complex than it needed to be. I agree its like, why dont you guys argue for more relevant things to makeyour job less tasking like, why enochian even exists anymore? That alone, without need to refresh would push your dps over RDM over time. Besides, nobody played BLM to check the party out for a res or heal, it was all about pure dps. IIRC on a striking dummy, they were doing more dps, its just when you throw mechanics and movement, is where its lacking. So while I feel for them, I also feel like they self defeat themselves. The same point about throwing complex ley lines on BLM is now being thrown at RDM for no reason at all I dont want every DPS to play the same, and if a RD< uses its utility thats "too stronk" its a definite DPS loss anyway and highly taxing on our mp reserves/, we dont have instant umbral ice recovery we have to wait or only cast jolt, or something. maybe the sword combo, to let the mp come back, recovery is bad on both RDM and SMN in comparison.

To shed some light on OP. You are all arguing with a person who hasnt gotten RDM to 70, who has STR melds on his CASTER gear, claims their spells are long,claims their UNENHANCED MELEE COMBO is as strong as a MNKs whole dps, and has consistantly posted in the DF vent thread about "elites" trying to tell people that there is a right way to play RDM. Its very clear he has no idea how the class works or why people are even asking to nerf it or arguing for the others to be buffed. To even suggest TP reduction to spam the melee combo shows he doesnt understand why they cast spells in the first place, as spamming the melee with no mana is no different than an ice mage or darksideless DRK. Have fun.

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Originally Posted by Vorx

That is exactly why i started this and got worried in the first place, just what you said. The community is full of people like this and any good class is quickly bombarded by "those types" that hate if their fav class can't do what the new one does. So they ban to gather, recruit to their cause, and eventually get it nerfed so bad its a disgrace to its former self. Sadly its happened time and again..

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Nobody cares if you have all the new shiny bells and whistles- they care when your kit and what you offer to the group as a whole outweighs your competition by a large margin. You could have raise, infinite swift casts, embolden, super virus, Pallisade, benediction, cards... if your damage wasn't so high that your contribution as a whole dwarved everyone else.

Lol to you thinking it's some jealousy thing that people "can't do what you do".

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Originally Posted by SunSand

To shed some light on OP. You are all arguing with a person who hasnt gotten RDM to 70, who has STR melds on his CASTER gear, claims their spells are long,claims their UNENHANCED MELEE COMBO is as strong as a MNKs whole dps, and has consistantly posted in the DF vent thread about "elites" trying to tell people that there is a right way to play RDM. Its very clear he has no idea how the class works or why people are even asking to nerf it or arguing for the others to be buffed. To even suggest TP reduction to spam the melee combo shows he doesnt understand why they cast spells in the first place, as spamming the melee with no mana is no different than an ice mage or darksideless DRK. Have fun.

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OMG!!!! This thread just became priceless. OP is level 68 RMD with all Strength materia melded!!! LOLZ

Well, atleast the auto attack damage goes up by a bit....if hes even in range.

You don't pay his sub.

TFW realised this is Vorx Dargo hah!
I know OP off of this and into a RP site and he always acts like this.
He throws a fit every time someone counter arguments and
as a matter of fact, he blocked me from the site because I
was right and he was wrong. He also Godmods lol.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

OMG!!!! This thread just became priceless. OP is level 68 RMD with all Strength materia melded!!! LOLZ

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KEK!

If BRDs were nerfed because of the mobility they had over the DOW jobs then RDM should be too because it does the same thing but with DOM.

Oooooooooor we can buff jobs? I think that's the best solution. A lot of Jobs suffered from the lost of DoTs and Buffs from Cross Class.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

Oooooooooor we can buff jobs? I think that's the best solution.

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How dare you bring logic into this....




/sarcasm

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Originally Posted by Fantasy9

If BRDs were nerfed because of the mobility they had over the DOW jobs then RDM should be too because it does the same thing but with DOM.

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Everyone loves to cry nerf. i swear.

Can we let this thread die? The OP made this thread with no idea whatsoever on how to play RDM (STR melds, spams normal melee combo and thinks it compares to MNK damage, thinks spell casts are too long due to not understanding Dualcast, thinks melee combo should cost less TP)

It's obvious OP doesn't understand why people say RDM is OP if he's playing it like an Ice Mage, Ruin Mage, Melee Mage, or god forbid a Ranged Melee.

Not to mention he immediately deflects any (justified) criticism and calls people trolls, even though they are right in calling him out.

I kinda wanna see this burn more. Im surprised it took so long for people to actually read some of the stuff he mentioned or look him up.

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Originally Posted by SunSand

I kinda wanna see this burn more. Im surprised it took so long for people to actually read some of the stuff he mentioned or look him up.

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I mean, I immediately knew something was fishy when he suggested a TP reduction for the melee combo, but I didn't knew it was as bad as STR melds and not understanding Dualcast, the most important mechanic to RDM besides the Gauge.

Why would you call yourself a Red Mage if all you want to do is MELEE?

I actually tried strength accessories compared with casting on some open field monsters. While the unaugmented melee combo does physical damage, it still scales off of intelligence. The only thing the strength accessories increased was autoattack damage. There is no point in melding strength.

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Originally Posted by SunSand

I kinda wanna see this burn more. Im surprised it took so long for people to actually read some of the stuff he mentioned or look him up.

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May as well, it's the only thing blm are watching burn anymore qq

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Originally Posted by Genoreaper

May as well, it's the only thing blm are watching burn anymore qq

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BLM aint that bad. SMN is far worse.

BLM should be doing more dps more easily than RDM simply becuase BLM is a black magic specialist. RDM is a jack of all trades. it stands to reason that BLM should be more powerful at destruction.

RDM already has more utility.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

BLM should be doing more dps more easily than RDM simply becuase BLM is a black magic specialist. RDM is a jack of all trades. it stands to reason that BLM should be more powerful at destruction.

RDM already has more utility.

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To be fair, BLM -is- more powerful at destructive magic. Their AOE damage is second to no other. RDMs just excel at Single Target right now. A RDM can set a soldier on fire, but BLMs can set the entire battlefield on fire. Which would you say is more destructive?

And in fact blm is more powerful on both aoe and single target on a lesser manner (moreso when they fix the mana glitch that artificially inflates the rdm single target dps) but you are comparing a generalist, against an specialist.

Blm will have fights where it will shine and others that will struggle against while the rdm would not have a "bad" suited fight but also wont have an "exceptionally" suited one

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

I mean, I immediately knew something was fishy when he suggested a TP reduction for the melee combo, but I didn't knew it was as bad as STR melds and not understanding Dualcast, the most important mechanic to RDM besides the Gauge.

Why would you call yourself a Red Mage if all you want to do is MELEE?

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I did not believe that this dude actually melded STR materia into his gear, like I didn't think anyone could be this horrifically misinformed until I looked at Lodestone and voila. Every single piece of gear he has equipped is melded with STR.

Like wtf, does this guy even read or pay attention to anything that happens to this game outside of the game itself?

To get back to the actual topic, I think it'd make sense for BLM and SMN to be buffed instead of RDM being nerfed so that they are on level with each other as best as possible. But that may be because I'm having too much fun being a RDM.

I'm glad BLM is getting buffed in 4.05

The order of casters dps will now be: BLM > RDM > SMN.

RDM does not need a nerf, it is in a very good spot now.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

I'm glad BLM is getting buffed in 4.05

The order of casters dps will now be: BLM > RDM > SMN.

RDM does not need a nerf, it is in a very good spot now.

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Couldn't agree more. Happy that BLMs are getting that buff.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

I'm glad BLM is getting buffed in 4.05

The order of casters dps will now be: BLM > RDM > SMN.

RDM does not need a nerf, it is in a very good spot now.

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Why should RDM be > SMN? RDM has more utility than them. I think it should be BLM > SMN > RDM

Having already played RDM myself, if they nerf its damage to a degree that puts it under BLM, Im not gonna play the class anymore. It is fine where it is, if BLM is suffering, then perhaps it is time to improve BLM itself, and not take a dump on another class.

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Originally Posted by Ootarion

Having already played RDM myself, if they nerf its damage to a degree that puts it under BLM, Im not gonna play the class anymore. It is fine where it is, if BLM is suffering, then perhaps it is time to improve BLM itself, and not take a dump on another class.

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BLM will get buffs with 4.05. Actually BLM and RDM are really close in terms of DPS (Susano and Lakshmi FFLogs) so i assume that BLM will deal more damage than RDM after buffs.

Never play a class with the expectation it will never be nerfed, no matter if you feel it's in a good spot. Devs are always adjusting classes, so as a player, you just gotta roll with it. Especially if you're like me and are drawn to classes that get nerfed all the time. :V

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Originally Posted by Talianore

Never play a class with the expectation it will never be nerfed, no matter if you feel it's in a good spot. Devs are always adjusting classes, so as a player, you just gotta roll with it. Especially if you're like me and are drawn to classes that get nerfed all the time. :V

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Sadly this seems true. At first no one thought Nin needed nerfed but it was. After the nerf i heard people saying it was destroyed so they started trying to "fix it" lowering TP cost, upping damage for the one AoE move, etc. As always the most fun seem to be the first ones..

As for all you other "people" its funny you all seem to come in groups to insult people and it always seems to be the same people, can you really not find anyone to side with you other then your "buddies"?

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Originally Posted by Vorx

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Do you mind explaining why you use STR melds on your RDM even though it does nothing but increase your auto-attack damage?

Also why do you think RDM's melee combo should get a TP cost reduction, even though you should only use it at 80/80+ mana for the much better damage?

Legitimate questions.

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

Do you mind explaining why you use STR melds on your RDM even though it does nothing but increase your auto-attack damage?

Also why do you think RDM's melee combo should get a TP cost reduction, even though you should only use it at 80/80+ mana for the much better damage?

Legitimate questions.

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STR does increase the damage of your combo if it isn't enchanted. You aren't meant to use it when it isn't enchanted though. He must really like it.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

You aren't meant to use it when it isn't enchanted though. He must really like it.

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Which just begs the question of why play RDM if you would rather do melee than spells.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

STR does increase the damage of your combo if it isn't enchanted. You aren't meant to use it when it isn't enchanted though. He must really like it.

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I think Magna has the right of it actually, RDM's melee skills are indeed physical damage but their potency is based on INT rather than STR, not unlike how NIN's melee skills scale of DEX instead of STR.

Which just makes this even more perplexing.