the "relic" and "anima" and whatever 4.0 version of it should not be powerful

And yet the relic weapons never become equal to raid weapons until the very end of the quest line, when all the content has been exhausted and new stuff comes out. Don't be pathetic

For someone like me who already has had an alex 275 weapon for several months, this quest doesn't do anything for me besides a minion until they let us 275 it. I feel like if you already have a raid weapon that has higher ilvl they should let you make your relic go up to a higher ilvl. Like give branching options for finishing relics. Easier path and a raid path. Raid path leads to higher ilvls faster.

To me it seems like this is way more work then doing savage for an hour once a week.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

For someone like me who already has had an alex 275 weapon for several months, this quest doesn't do anything for me besides a minion until they let us 275 it. I feel like if you already have a raid weapon that has higher ilvl they should let you make your relic go up to a higher ilvl. Like give branching options for finishing relics. Easier path and a raid path. Raid path leads to higher ilvls faster.

To me it seems like this is way more work then doing savage for an hour once a week.

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Its supposed to be more work. That is the trade of for the content it requires being a lot easier.

People need to remember the purpose of the relic is to allow more casual players to work towards a good weapon by investing time over conquering difficulty. Even taking into the easier difficulty it is extremely unlikely even 30% of players will end up clearing Creator savage. Many will never step foot in it. Many don't want to. Playing the game is like watching TV. They do it to relax and socialise, not challenge themselves. The devs have to provide goals for those players too to work towards.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Its supposed to be more work. That is the trade of for the content it requires being a lot easier.

People need to remember the purpose of the relic is to allow more casual players to work towards a good weapon by investing time over conquering difficulty. Even taking into the easier difficulty it is extremely unlikely even 30% of players will end up clearing Creator savage. Many will never step foot in it. Many don't want to. Playing the game is like watching TV. They do it to relax and socialise, not challenge themselves. The devs have to provide goals for those players too to work towards.

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I actually just finished it a few min ago. A1S farming. But the whole purpose of me doing it is because it will be BiS when it is able to go to 275.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

The people that complain about relic weapon and tomes weapons are the same that complain about low ilv people in DF. Figures.

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Special snowflakes with over inflated egos that takes games way to seriously.. that feel the need to ridicule other people to make themselves feel better

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Besides, it's factually proven that the vast majority of the raid tiers can be fully completed within hours of going live, so that does mean that they're easier to get than relics, which take a fair amount more time investment than a sub ten minute fight once a week.

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Less time investment, but probably not easier. The people who can clear the raids within few days after release are the top players who have invested a lot of time/effort in the game prior to the release of the raid in question. Your average raider probably would take weeks if not months to clear the same raid. Meanwhile the relic quest grind can be done by new players, so I don't think it's fair to say raid weapons are easier to obtain.

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Originally Posted by RaijinSupreme

Seems you already know the answer to your own question.

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But it doesn't discount the question. My answer is specific to myself and a very very small number of raiders. We seek power through intangible/immaterial avenues but many seek through physical gear.
That is where the problem is.

I actually very much like way WoW does it. Their relic becomes on-par with the raid weapon sooner so all become equal ala FFXIV, in addition, it has a further step that you augment by raiding difficult content to truly become above and beyond anything else, even in to a new expansion. Its the blend of grind and skill.

I would have to completely disagree. This isn't the EverQuest era. Limiting gear like you propose creates a massive gap between the raiding community and the non-raiding community. In other games there is a definite content cap because content starts to be designed toward this higher tier. However, other games don't have a main story questline like this game does. SE can't allow this massive gap to happen because it would lock a large part of the community out of content. And being locked out of content would mean that people would find alternatives. Thus, the developers find a way for the rest of the community to catch up on ilevel so they can set requirements on new content that will be accessible on a much wider scale.

Unidentified items and umbrites are tougher than Creator Savage.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I actually just finished it a few min ago. A1S farming. But the whole purpose of me doing it is because it will be BiS when it is able to go to 275.

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It can absolutely be done very quickly through A1S farming. That is the truth.

Most of the casual and semi-casual people do not do A1S farming for their relics. They just do their normal thing and maybe a little more. They are part of the target audience for the relic.

If SE does what some have suggested and take away the welfare gear and the easy grind weapon from them...

What do they have left to do? Why should they even stay?

Like it or not, we need them more than they need us.

As a slight aside, as a community, we really have to stop this "Us vs. Them", Raiders vs. "Casuals" mentality. How about we try to come together and work together for once? I speak as someone who raids AND grinds out relic every patch. If anything, we ALL should be glad that there are multiple paths, and OPTIONS to get to end game gear levels.

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Originally Posted by Aquaslash

As a slight aside, as a community, we really have to stop this "Us vs. Them", Raiders vs. "Casuals" mentality. How about we try to come together and work together for once? I speak as someone who raids AND grinds out relic every patch. If anything, we ALL should be glad that there are multiple paths, and OPTIONS to get to end game gear levels.

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While that's be nice, you're asking to change human nature.

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Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge

Jealous isn't the right word. More like, I am annoyed that braindead grinds are given the same merit and achievement as mastering the game when it is clearly not the same thing.

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You should not be raiding for a reward, you should be raiding for the challenge. If you only care about the reward, stop raiding.

But hey, I get it, you're a raider, big whoop. I can guarantee you that a big chunk of the community doesn't care if someone raids or not. Nor do they care about your shiny baubles. Having seen it time and again from a plethora of different people, it's very clear to me that raiders simply aren't special in any sense of the word nor will they ever be in this community setting. If you want to spend your time like that, it's cool, but others will spend their time casually grinding out a relic because they don't have the time, patience, mentality, persistence, or other traits to handle Savage— that's perfectly OK and it doesn't make them less important than you.

That doesn't make you or they better than one another, and the fact that you'd even imply such is sickening. Options are a good thing, even if you and many others would try to claim otherwise. You'll simply always be wrong, and that's okay too. I'll be looking forward to seeing you say the same at the end of the 4.X cycle as well.

so A12S went down 3 days after patch launch, so people had 275 weapons 3 days after launch, 3 days grind

anima relic begun at i170 when? pretty sure it was more than 3 days ago, more than 3 weeks ago,

holy! 16/12/2015 patch 3.15, so people have been working on a relic for more than 1 whole year, and we've just reached 260-270 step.

A WHOLE YEAR, VERSUS 3 DAYS (if you're not gud, maybe a month? or etc)

outrageous and insulting is your OP, Mastering this game you say, hmm so you know everything? hmm? I think not.

to add, Square Enix is a business, businesses exist to make money.

If the game only catered to your tiny 1%, they would shut it down tomorrow...

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Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge

Guess what! you did A1S 100 times in 3.5 and how have an i270 wep with best secondary stats for your job! Grats!

Wait...really?

These weps should be for glam and/or at least 30ilvls lower than the current BiS weps in the game. You literally do nothing of skill to achieve exactly what those who bust their ass actually learning and mastering the game achieve.
Make these things glam only or reduce their ilvl and stats because its outrageous and insulting.
This needs to stop.

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This genius belongs in WOW.. Go back to where your eliteness is praised.

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Originally Posted by Laurima

A WHOLE YEAR, VERSUS 3 DAYS (if you're not gud, maybe a month? or etc)

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Not everyone gets their weapon immediately though. It took me 8 clears (~2 months) to get mine since I had to trade books for it. While OP's argument is ridiculous, your argument is pretty flawed as well. As I've said in a previous post, to be able to down a12s in the first week you'd need to be in a really good group, in which case you've probably invested a lot more time/effort than the majority of the playerbase. It's not a fair comparison.

Mind you, I'm not against relics being the same ilv as raid weapons, I was doing relic for my war back during midas progression, hoping for it to help my group to clear a8s (though we failed), and am doing relic for my drg now since the raid weapon is not very good. Honestly I'm fine with the current system, but I just feel that claiming that you only need a few days' worth of time investment to obtain the raid weapon is ridiculous.

I will never understand how someone could find less enjoyment in the fact that another human being out there could possibly put themselves on equal footing by another means.

If my personal sense of enjoyment was bound to how I compared myself to another player then I'd really need to reassess my ego and epeen. As someone who spent a week doing the 270 Anima step I could care less if that guy AFKing on top of the Diddlyshire rock has an i275 weapon. Neither do I care if that DRG over there finished his 270 on day 1 (I still think he's crazy though).

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Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge

Guess what! you did A1S 100 times in 3.5 and how have an i270 wep with best secondary stats for your job! Grats!

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Coming from a Drk main do you think I want the A12S sword? It's a pile of steaming crap parry and skill speed? Thanks SE! I have my 8 pages and it's being spent on pld not on drk since relic is BiS even for a savage raider. You really do not have a grasp of the situation both raiders and non raiders benefit from this easy step if you designed this game you'd make it into a poor state that's for sure.

I'm also doing this light step casually with PvP and I'm having fun people are farming A1S super fast so what? Let them have their weapons there's so many ways to yknow play the game to get light why do you care? The fact that you're attacking the majority of the playerbase while trying to save face is funny too, come back with some common sense and less threads about whining that "omg this casual got 2 pieces of ilvl 270 gear and a BiS weapon for doing nothing UGH".

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

Not everyone gets their weapon immediately though.

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Not everyone has their anima weapon either. And it takes far less time to train and clear Alexander Savage that doing the full Anima questline, let alone getting multiple Savage weapons vs multiple Anima weapons.

But, like I said earlier, if the game wants to maintain time based weapons with little challenge and boring grind, the tome weapons exist. And since they impmlemented wondros tails to put another incentive on doing old content, Relics may finally have their dedicated trials and challenges.

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Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge

Guess what! you did A1S 100 times in 3.5 and how have an i270 wep with best secondary stats for your job! Grats!.

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You did a dance with 7 other people 8 times and now have an i275 weapon with likely mediocre secondary stats for your job! Grats!.

...

I'd suggest going back to WoW where you belong, but odds are you got chased out of there as well for complaining about the legendary ring and cape being available to anyone who had the time to grind it.

relic is tedious tho... especially for people who went through the 200 > 210 before nerf... and I myself, feel so lazy I'm focusing on a12s just not to do another one for my monk =w=

People keep saying relic is time consuming but it's really not. ARR relic was time consuming, HW relic was hardly time consuming. I work from 8am till 4pm and anytime I finish the stuff I need to do(work related) I work on my relic and not waste time AFK in idyllshire and I was done in like 3 days. Such time investment much wow. SE hands stuff out way too easily in this game and you wonder why this game has no longevity to it.

When the patch comes to an end and new gear is introduced. Players will have the same item level as raiders. The only difference will be when did they get these items. And some savage pieces have better secondary stats.
Raiders will gear much faster (2 or 3 patches) before none raiders.

As for the anima weapon. the very last step for anima, the item level will match the raid one. It is still fine because raiders have gotten these weapons long time ago. While others have to grind for theirs.

It is the race to gear up and show it off before everyone is the same item level as you. It is fair.

The very purpose of the original relics was to give non-raiders a means to get powerful gear. I feel they achieve that, even if some of the quest mechanics are simply not fun (see: RNG-based FATE grind). I think it is fair to give everyone a means of having a powerful weapon without sticking to a static's raiding schedule for months on end. Good raiders get their endgame gear at least three months before everyone else has access to it, which balances it out.

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Originally Posted by Remus

People keep saying relic is time consuming but it's really not. ARR relic was time consuming, HW relic was hardly time consuming. I work from 8am till 4pm and anytime I finish the stuff I need to do(work related) I work on my relic and not waste time AFK in idyllshire and I was done in like 3 days. Such time investment much wow. SE hands stuff out way too easily in this game and you wonder why this game has no longevity to it.

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This last step is not indicative of the process as a whole. I made a goal of doing every step while it was fresh, and let me tell you. The 230-240 jump was RETARDED. That step took me the longest because I just got plain sick of even SEEING ARF. Let alone burning all my leves for about 7 vilekin and burning poetics as soon as I got 450.

The 200-210 was also ridiculous. Did you know unidentified items used to cost 680 lesser tomes each? And that they used to cost ten precision parts from gordias instead of three? I'm also really sure the crafter parts were specialist recipies.

Don't even get me started on the poor souls who didn't have a zeta and had to pray to rngesus for Atma drops.

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Originally Posted by Remus

People keep saying relic is time consuming but it's really not. ARR relic was time consuming, HW relic was hardly time consuming. I work from 8am till 4pm and anytime I finish the stuff I need to do(work related) I work on my relic and not waste time AFK in idyllshire and I was done in like 3 days. Such time investment much wow. SE hands stuff out way too easily in this game and you wonder why this game has no longevity to it.

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You're lying if you say that you can complete the entire anima from 170-270 in a few days.

210 pre nerf and 240 both took excessive periods of time to deal with, and that's not counting the original 170 step if you didn't finish the ARR relic.

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Originally Posted by Rennies

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I was talking about the last step. My point still stands that this relic hasn't been as time consuming compared to ARR. People only think it's time consuming because they look at what they need to do and wait for nerfs. Instead of doing nothing in the game work on the relic you will realise how quick it can be done casually. If you keep up to date with the relic it's not that bad. If you start a brand new one of course there will be a giant wall in front of you to climb before you become current. Also people used certain strats for the relic but once people move on those parties become smaller and no one does it. That's when the relic becomes hard due to people moving onto the next step.

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Originally Posted by Aquaslash

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I finished each step of the relic on release so I didn't do any step when it got nerfed so please don't act as if I didn't do it thanks. I honestly still believe people are blowing it out of proportions and it wasn't that bad like ARR. I spammed ARF but I also spammed Antitower when I got bored of that place. I finished the ARR relic as well by the way before any step got nerfed so I believe I am in a position to compare them both from my experience. All I will say is people don't use their time very well so it seems like it is longer than it really is. People who continue to complain and complain for a relic nerf could use that time to be doing the relic and you would be surprised how quick it can be done if you work on just that and stomach through it. The whole point of the relic is grind for a good weapon so of course its going to feel annoying and tedious that's the whole point of it, but with that you will eventually get the weapon as strong or even stronger when it reaches 275 then raid weapons.

Fact of the matter is SE took something people were complaining about (Light Grind) and added it again....
Well and fates but that is not even close to being as bad as ARR Relic was.
They should bring back the having to defeat Primals, etc... it would surely make things more interesting.

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Originally Posted by Maero

Fact of the matter is SE took something people were complaining about (Light Grind) and added it again....
Well and fates but that is not even close to being as bad as ARR Relic was.
They should bring back the having to defeat Primals, etc... it would surely make things more interesting.

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might be nice , but it still have to be some kind of grind , so sooner or later people will complain about it again :P
tho i think the light farm is unbalanced atm i mean if u do A1S u can finish it in what 2-3 days? :P
if u do dungeons u need like 2-3 months ^^ and A1S is not really hard anymore , u just dps it hard and ignore mechanics ^^

edit :P to the OP : the ilvl of the relic is just fine as it is ^^ if u need bash on people that dont have that much time to boost ur ego , then theres something wrong with ur attitude ^^

quest weapons lose their purpose if they aren't the strongest or equal to strongest. I don't think many people would put a huge amount of hours into unlocking a glamor weapon with no stats. for sure I think time is valid sacrifice to get something powerful. raiders get the best pve equipment a long time before anyone else; isn't that enough to be happy about?

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Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge

Jealous isn't the right word. More like, I am annoyed that braindead grinds are given the same merit and achievement as mastering the game when it is clearly not the same thing.

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"Mastering the Game," is subjective and, to be frank, a very significant goal, when you consider every single facet the game has to it. PvP, Mini Games like Verminion or Gold Saucer, Raids/Dungeons, Achievements, Crafting, etc... Relic/Anima weapons can indeed be included in that list. Considering all the work put into obtaining the Relic/Anima weapons I cannot help but feel that they're pretty underpowered for glorified glamour sticks. Then again, I -can- appreciate SE not wanting people to feel forced to get them. As a glorified glamour stick, I wish they weren't quite as difficult to acquire. Its interesting content aside from the grinds.

I was one of the people who figured they'd never get one or bother trying. Then I found myself bored and went, "Hey, why not?" Its not so much hard as annoying due to the grinds. Considering I'm not even sure I'll main BLM come Stormblood, it may even be a waste of time since that's the weapon I'm working on. If I go RDM or SMN or something else, then this glorified glamour stick is pretty useless.

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Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge

you literally do nothing of skill to achieve exactly what those who bust their ass

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Say what? Ok it might not be "hard" to get a relic but have you seen some of those steps needed to do to get next part of relic? If person wants new relic asap they busting their ass to get that stuff done. Otherwise just doing casually could take 2-3 months to do. (looking at you umbrite step). You must suffer from raiders syndrome, thinking that raiding is the only thing worth doing and only the best stuff should come from raiding.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Say what? Ok it might not be "hard" to get a relic but have you seen some of those steps needed to do to get next part of relic? If person wants new relic asap they busting their ass to get that stuff done. Otherwise just doing casually could take 2-3 months to do. (looking at you umbrite step). You must suffer from raiders syndrome, thinking that raiding is the only thing worth doing and only the best stuff should come from raiding.

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The best stuff largely DOES come from raiding.

OP is clearly a troll

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Originally Posted by Callinon

The best stuff largely DOES come from raiding.

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largely and only are two different things

Yeah, the best stuff comes from raiding. Therefore, swords with high amounts of Parry is the best if it comes from a raid.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

If they won't allow customized stats for raid weapons at least make them decent. Like seriously drk weapon has sks parry and is overall worse than the upgraded shire weapon, there's no way that's intentional right, lol? I wouldn't mind anima being slightly stronger than the raid weapon like warrior's (just minor difference due to more secondary stats), considering they do consume a lot of time and are released months after the raid weapons.

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Yeah, I think it's just more of a mistake on their part with Parry stat on the Alex DRK Surfboard sword. Considering they are re-working parry in 4.0, won't be much of an issue next time. Yet, you have practically perfect Alex weapons like the Cane, knives, and Axe.

If only the raid weapon was like a +10 ilvl difference instead of +5 from the tome or anima weapon, the secondaries being not-optimal would be moot compared to the weapon damage gain.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Raiders will always hate regardless because weapons become obsolete later on and can't change stats onit. Relics people will just complain, not all, about grinds...man I don't envy Yoshi on his job but he has done a great job so far.

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Believe it or not, most raiders don't even do the relic stuff. If you are always working towards completing end-game raids early-on or top of the server in-clears you'll likely always have the highest ilvl weapon each tier within 1-2 months.

I just came in here to get some free salt for my Margarita!!

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Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge

Guess what! you did A1S 100 times in 3.5 and how have an i270 wep with best secondary stats for your job! Grats!

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You do realize this is a flaw over the execution of anima and not the "content" or lack of right? Both 2.0 and 3.0 especially 3.0 used older content to progress forward. You are honestly complaining about an issue some people have with anima and it's the fact that the journey to get the weapon just involves doing older content.

When 4.0 comes out the Eureka content planned does consist of Anima. They've said it during their previews of 4.0 that the anima quest line will take place and use the content of Eureka rather than be content which has you do older content to get the gear.

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Originally Posted by Airget

When 4.0 comes out the Eureka content planned does consist of Anima. They've said it during their previews of 4.0 that the anima quest line will take place and use the content of Eureka rather than be content which has you do older content to get the gear.

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It's confirmed that our Anima weapons will be used in 4.0? Can you link a source?