Squadrons are a let down for now

I, for one am looking forward to it. What I'm actually hoping is that I can just go around the open world with them and just do things like Fates and chill out with them. For dungeon replacements... eh I doubt they'll be a totally reliable source, and for those naysayers who are saying "Oh they're going to replace real people now" no, if anything they'd be a good buffer if you're trying to queue for a dungeon you're trying to complete and can't do so because of long queue. I could see them working great for like... say Palace of the Dead or some other cool stuff they haven't implemented.

I've noticed a lot of the negative people are the same ones who speak out against it before it's even released. Come on guys... we've gone a long way since 1.0 and sure, I'll be the first to admit that the game still needs polish and promises are still to be upheld, but I'd sooner want a proper housing remedy before anything. The apartments are nice, but since going to another server and beginning a new FC with no house at this time, it'd be nice if you could also be able to progress your own personal airships than relying on an FC and land that is few and far between.

But even then, it's fine. I can wait. Gives me plenty of chance to save gil, level up my FC and get sorted with new crafters and gathering classes.

I am going to give it a try. After all, you shouldn't expect the feature to be fully functional until 4.0

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Originally Posted by MaikoRaines

snip.

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So what is the time frame when someone CAN call out a developer for designing something they were looking foward to terribly wrong? because the next excuse that usually comes is "well its already been put in place for months..."

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Originally Posted by Kallera

So what is the time frame when someone CAN call out a developer for designing something they were looking foward to terribly wrong? because the next excuse that usually comes is "well its already been put in place for months..."

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No time frame is required. But it'll just boil down to a forum pissing contest between defending something ill conceived and those calling it out for what it is.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

No time frame is required. But it'll just boil down to a forum pissing contest between defending something ill conceived and those calling it out for what it is.

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i will say a lot of people seem to defend content based on the idea it will become what they want it to eventually and that i find weird, but someone actively defending something they like or are liking on how it sounds i don't see a problem with. seems to me the two groups in this topic is *this is bad and should been released when it's good* and *this is bad but will get better so getting mad is illogical*

XD guess it's one of those glass half full/empty kinds of things.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

So what is the time frame when someone CAN call out a developer for designing something they were looking foward to terribly wrong? because the next excuse that usually comes is "well its already been put in place for months..."

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well calling out i would have to say never, but it would really be on how you call out a developer. if you don't like something say so and give suggestions you would personally like.
but to go hey developer you messed up again why do you have to be so bad at this?!! i would say never.

content you don't like doesn't make it bad, content you like doesn't make it good. it's why it's so hard to make content you make it more towards one thing and this group is upset you make it more towards this it makes another.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

i will say a lot of people seem to defend content based on the idea it will become what they want it to eventually and that i find weird, but someone actively defending something they like or are liking on how it sounds i don't see a problem with seems to me the two groups in this topic is *this is bad and should been released when it's good* and *this is bad but will get better so getting mad is illogical*

XD guess it's one of those glass half full/empty kinds of things.

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What about the people waiting for it to be released to make judgements about whether it is bad or not?

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

What about the people waiting for it to be released to make judgements about whether it is bad or not?

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we will have to wait to see if they like it! xD

i was just talking about what seems to be the biggest discussion (or at least that i saw)

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Originally Posted by Fyce

What were you expecting to do anyway? Running Sastasha with a bunch of Lv 15-16 NPC?...

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I sort of was, but after reading what you wrote. I agree, it seems we can level up a large variety of characters / classes. I wouldn't want to have to re-run all of that with a group of NPC's just to level them up.

I will be happy to give it a try. I was excited about a gambit like system to take into dungeons or even expired end-game content to practice things. Though we will see. Right now, taking it as it is it would probably make me feel closer to my GC. Lore will always get me excited or keep me around even if the content isn't that popular.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

What about the people waiting for it to be released to make judgements about whether it is bad or not?

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Good on them. They can wait to share their opinion. Which everyone is entitled too including those saying "shit sux" before release.

Too bad the only thing that matters IMO is gonna be patch notes.

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Calling out devs is a waste of time. They won't even read your posts due to the language barrier. If you really want to send a message you just won't touch the content. They will use the data of how much it is used and gauge interest that way. Everyone's hot air means very little to them.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

What about the people waiting for it to be released to make judgements about whether it is bad or not?

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No, there are two types of posts about new content:
The expectation of disappointment posts-by the people who are never happy
The actual disappointment posts-by the other people who are never happy

You can't break the cycle!

Due to the fact that Airships are not available to everyone, I welcome an additional retainer system. I hope that some items from airship exploration can be obtainable this way as well.

Ugh this just occurred to me. I didn't watch or read anything that went into details on it, so correct me if they've stated otherwise, but I'm kinda expecting some massive F2P type of cooldown periods with the future iteration of Squadrons.

For now, they're basically Garrisons from WoW and our current retainer system (sorta), so wait times are nothing unusual. When they're available to use in dungeons though, I'm expecting a once a day use at best, if not once a week. Some relatively unnecessary limiting factor to something folks could see as fun. Also hoping that once the dungeon use is available, we'd be able to level them through dungeons as well as the missions (the specific NPCs wouldn't be available if on a mission).

I don't understand why this feature has to exist in the first place. I know I probably won't touch it...not trying to be rude, but why do people want to play with NPCs in an MMO? It feels like it ruins the point of the genre?

I guess the sending them on missions bit is interesting but weren't garrisons widely disliked in WoW as well? There just doesn't seem to be anything positive about this feature to me.

The problem with garrisons was that they were the centerpiece of everything of the expansion and all was tied to it (and in a way it's the same thing with legion) also garrison's followers went abandoned with the second raiding tier as naval mission made them obsolete because reasons
As for why it exist there can be many reasons, maybe they want to make more meaningful the new GC ranks by giving us a whole coorps to command, maybe they simply want to keep their word on this feature as it was announced first as a way to clear dungeon without the need to lvl synch, but unsynch mode took care of that.
That said on friday we should get more infos with the patch notes and if not we need to just wait and see

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I don't understand why this feature has to exist in the first place. I know I probably won't touch it...not trying to be rude, but why do people want to play with NPCs in an MMO? It feels like it ruins the point of the genre?

I guess the sending them on missions bit is interesting but weren't garrisons widely disliked in WoW as well? There just doesn't seem to be anything positive about this feature to me.

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In the case of the "point" of the genre, it's easy to argue that it was lost the moment cross realms/servers needed to exist. Looking back to the old days, before such a function existed, MMORPGs thrived on their individual server communities. You knew many people and recognized even more names. Your characters existence affected the people on your server. Perhaps you were the only one with a specific crafting recipe, you were one of the better tanks/healers/dps, known to be very helpful, etc. Many, including those you didn't know, relied on you in some way. Being a troll or worse resulted in basically needing to start over on another server, since you were known about, even if you could name change.

With cross realms/servers, your existence is only meaningful to the extent of your individual connections (e.g. LS/FC, friends, etc) and as a number to fill the ranks. How good you are typically means little to the folks you end up solo queuing with, since having people capable of completing most content is a dime a dozen. Now think about that bit I just mentioned: individual connections and being a number. What sort of online games or genres does that really qualify as? Nearly all of them, right? Most obvious example would be FPS games. You can chat with your friends and such, or troll others with little to no consequence, all while only being needed to the extent of filling the slots. You no longer really have what made MMORPGs social environment unique, at least in this regard. When it comes to dungeons, for the most part, individual servers are just a hub, a place for you to wait in until you get queued in to instanced combat with forgettable strangers you're not going to likely see ever again.

So if you're worried about the unique social aspects of it, don't be... that was long gone out of necessity for the genre. If you're concerned about the lack of group participation, then that will depend on how much access Squadrons will have and how effective they are at it. Remember that while the genre is a social one, doing solo content does not remove socializing entirely (we have non-party chat systems in place for a reason). It could very well be possible that Squadron use is restricted to a "for story mode-only" type of thing, where you don't get gear/drops, but you can complete MSQ and experience cutscenes as want... as well as experience for Squadrons, if dungeon exp can qualify for them.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I don't understand why this feature has to exist in the first place. I know I probably won't touch it...not trying to be rude, but why do people want to play with NPCs in an MMO? It feels like it ruins the point of the genre?

I guess the sending them on missions bit is interesting but weren't garrisons widely disliked in WoW as well? There just doesn't seem to be anything positive about this feature to me.

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Garrisons weren't that bad. There were two key problems with it though.
TL;DR version:

They were mandatory for progression
They ended up being the only kind of content people got.

Neither is true for Squadrons.

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Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

Well I mean they could've just released nothing until they implemented the taking into dungeon stuff...then no one would've complained right?

Gimme a break.


Tell me what would've satisfied you?

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A number of things could've satisfied. Instead, they took the least popular thing in World of Warcraft (Garrison Missions), a thing that we already basically have (Ventures) and then added it into the game. It's a recipe for failure.

Honestly, I haven't been following stuff as much recently and only heard about Squadrons yesterday. I was immediately excited at the possibility of having my own crew. I went and read up on it and was immediately disappointed. I'm not sure how they can take such a basic idea and make it in the worst way possible.

To more specifically answer your question, I would have liked to not have missions to send them on, or some window that pops up costing resources which takes me away from the game. I'd rather not to have something that resembles a mobile game (I hate mobile games). I'd rather have a squadron of NPCs that I can take with me to solo content - like henchmen and heroes in Guild Wars 1. There could be hard limitations (i.e. you cannot take them into X content), or soft limitations (i.e. you can take them into X content, but chances for success are slim due to AI). I'd also like to have the ability to glamour them :P

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Originally Posted by Balipu

Garrisons weren't that bad. There were two key problems with it though.
TL;DR version:

They were mandatory for progression
They ended up being the only kind of content people got.

Neither is true for Squadrons.

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First, "not that bad" is never a desired descriptor of good content.
Second, they were and are bad. They're not fun in the slightest.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

First, "not that bad" is never a desired descriptor of good content.
Second, they were and are bad. They're not fun in the slightest.

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Sure the aim is to make good content and simply "not bad". But Garrisons really weren't as bad as some people pretended. Sure they weren't fun for everyone (I personally was glad I could do something beside questing and dungeons. When I still had quests and dungeons), but people compared it to the Holocaust.

Squadrons are controlled passive content. Recruitment is based on your active role of completing challenge logs but you are at the mercy of RNG to give you the members you need/want (most likely 2 Tanks,2 Healers and 4 DD). One shame in this system is how restricted the member limit is, as it stands you can only go on 2 missions a day but because of the party limit.

I would prefer 12 members but just limiting to 2 missions daily, at least then there would be some leeway with recruiting and dismissing members.

For those who want to micro manage you will prolly have a lot of fun with this content, looking to recruit the members with the best attributes while having no qualm releasing those who are weaker. Overall though, it's a nice side content to just set and forget, pretty much are retainers but just some slight differences. Appears you don't need to actively gear them up, you are restricted to only 18hr missions meaning no one can spam missions to get them to cap, you can't repeat missions you already did that week and failure is possible.

The execution of this content, is one in which when they do release an app that let's you do in-game content, they will most likely have the ability to command your squadron through the app to send them on missions and train them. So rather than stay logged in for 4hrs or look back every hour, you can just go on your phone and train them again til you hit the 4hr cap. And with the loot, you can probably Send them out and maybe they will have it where you need to set a retainer to have the loot sent to/with open space so that it can be sent to them upon completion of quest.

Also as mentioned, this is nice for people who just don't have access or the time to do FC airships, while I don't think the loot will be the same in any way, you at least have the option to obtain unique loot from this content.