No sense of fear in this game.

I didn't read all the posts, but I agree with the OP.
Getting to 60 and being 60 is just really too easy.

One reason I liked FFXI was because you had to actually avoid mobs at times. You had to be in groups to have someone help you get somewhere for a while.
And dying was something avoided at all costs.

Eventually I had that feeling in FFXI too, where everything was becoming too easy.
So I made a second character and imposed perma-death on myself. The first time I died, I would delete the character.
I only grouped with people I trusted. It changed the way I played the game completely! And it was really fun!

I think I got into my 40s when I finally died.

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

I didn't read all the posts, but I agree with the OP.
Getting to 60 and being 60 is just really too easy.

One reason I liked FFXI was because you had to actually avoid mobs at times. You had to be in groups to have someone help you get somewhere for a while.
And dying was something avoided at all costs.

Eventually I had that feeling in FFXI too, where everything was becoming too easy.
So I made a second character and imposed perma-death on myself. The first time I died, I would delete the character.
I only grouped with people I trusted. It changed the way I played the game completely! And it was really fun!

I think I got into my 40s when I finally died.

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That actually sounds genuinely fun lol, but it'd be something I'd be willing to do with friends only though. It'd make for some interesting survival stories. X)

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

That actually sounds genuinely fun lol, but it'd be something I'd be willing to do with friends only though. It'd make for some interesting survival stories. X)

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That's the old school way of doing things. Using your imagination to make a game the way you want to play it (even if just temporarily). Hell, people still do it these days with things like that Nuzlocke challenge stuff for Pokemon. The beauty of it too is that if you end up failing, you still have the option to continue on with the designed game or just move on. A lot of folks can't do that on their own though and need to be forced into it by the games design itself, which is unfortunate in many ways, but that's how things are now for most. Need to have our hands held to find ways to have fun lol.

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Originally Posted by Maxipep

If you chose to carry on crafting in a market area knowing an A rank could suddenly appear you'd deserve to lose that HQ i170 BSM main tool

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What's problem with crafting in a market area?

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

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Isn't it possible that some people just have different ideas of fun? Everytime I hear about FFXI, it always sounds like more time was spent trying to avoid random mobs because of how absurdly dangerous they were rather than fighting them. That sounds... Cumbersome. I don't mind a challenge, but in an MMO where you just want to get from Point A to Point B to gather, or complete a quest, it just gets really annoying when things constantly aggro against you.

I am not sure they would even be able to do it at this time. They have painted themselves into a corner by making us out to be god slayers and almost gods in our own rights.

Dangerous special enemies for sure exist (NM, Savage,Void Ark) but the idea of general open world zones posing any real threat to us does not fit the narrative until they inevitably drop us down a peg (or 20) to create tension for 4.0 D:

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

That's the old school way of doing things. Using your imagination to make a game the way you want to play it (even if just temporarily). Hell, people still do it these days with things like that Nuzlocke challenge stuff for Pokemon. The beauty of it too is that if you end up failing, you still have the option to continue on with the designed game or just move on. A lot of folks can't do that on their own though and need to be forced into it by the games design itself, which is unfortunate in many ways, but that's how things are now for most. Need to have our hands held to find ways to have fun lol.

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Oh, don't even. This isn't Atari where everything looks like a crappy pixelated mess and dots are symbolized as bullets and health and you can't tell what the flip your fighting. If I have to use my imagination to have fun with this game I pay 15$ every month then hell yeah I want the game to be designed the way I find fun. If I made a game where you jump bridges and walk an old lady across the street 13 times would you wish it was a better game or use your imagination to make it fun? Yeah, I wouldn't either unless your drunk and had friends to play that crap with, though just about anything is fun with friends. :/

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Originally Posted by ThirdKeyOfSun

I am not sure they would even be able to do it at this time. They have painted themselves into a corner by making us out to be god slayers and almost gods in our own rights.

Dangerous special enemies for sure exist (NM, Savage,Void Ark) but the idea of general open world zones posing any real threat to us does not fit the narrative until they inevitably drop us down a peg (or 20) to create tension for 4.0 D:

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Thats a good point. Funny when I mention our godhood then comment about Haurchefant's (idk how to spell it) supposed "sacrifice" when I'm sure if we got shot with that light arrow we'd faint, appear at the nearest aetherite, repair our gear, and kick that guys teeth in. We survive meteors, explosions, infernos, lasers, mega flares (I think that's what it was in t9) and just about anything in 14 we should be dead from.

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Originally Posted by Corfish

Everytime I hear about FFXI, it always sounds like more time was spent trying to avoid random mobs because of how absurdly dangerous they were rather than fighting them. That sounds... Cumbersome.

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Yep, that's pretty accurate.

Non-casters (in particular DPS jobs that didn't typically use ninja at a subjob) had it especially hard. If you were WHM or RDM main or subjob, you could simply cast Sneak and Invisible on yourself for a small amount of MP.

If you were NIN main or sub, you always had the spell Tonko available (which functioned like Invisible) and eventually the spell Monomi (which functioned like Sneak) was added. Although those use consumables, ninja tools themselves had a default stack of 99, and later they added tool bags, each of which contained a stack of tools and could themselves stack to 12, allowing you to have up to 1287 of each (12 tool bags, plus a stack of 99) in just two inventory spaces each.

If you didn't fit into either of those categories, you had to either craft or purchase Prism Powder and Silent Oil, each of which had a default stack of just 12. Content like Sky was full of mobs that were aggressive to either sight or sound, and you could easily go through a full stack of consumables in a single event night, depending on how much running around you had to do and whether there was someone zoning in with you who could at least give you an initial Sneak or Invisible to help out.

Additionally, due to the high level of demand that created, prices for them could frequently be relatively high, especially at the start of an expansion.

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Originally Posted by Corfish

Isn't it possible that some people just have different ideas of fun? Everytime I hear about FFXI, it always sounds like more time was spent trying to avoid random mobs because of how absurdly dangerous they were rather than fighting them. That sounds... Cumbersome. I don't mind a challenge, but in an MMO where you just want to get from Point A to Point B to gather, or complete a quest, it just gets really annoying when things constantly aggro against you.

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Absolutely. I raged to no end wasting 30min just getting from one zone to another on multiple occasions lol. That difficulty though is what built upon the immersion of the MMORPG genre. Back then, the genre was far more about the RP nature of it, meaning that these games offered players means to be immersed within the game due to these intended hardships, be it you RP'd or not. I'd say a large amount of people didn't RP in XI, but nearly all of us that played and enjoyed it can say we felt a strong connection to the game (i.e. we were immersed within it).

The danger it presented you reflected upon you developing as a player. If you couldn't do it, you had options but they weren't good ones (like finding someone to help you take the trek that wasted 30min of their time). It was reflective upon the hardships we relate to IRL, so we could love and hate our second life a lot easier. If you get that "second life" bit, then kudos to you... you know your MMO stigma history lol.

You know how people complain about things being too easy? Back then, we would intentionally make the game harder for ourselves by wearing stuff that was intended to be worn for it. Even when the mainstream popularity of the genre started to emerge, people still did this sort of thing. Level capping themselves in WoW at 60 so that they could go and do old raids as they were designed... at least to what they realistically could achieve (abilities/spells had buffs/nerfs/changes over time). Note: The ease is a legit concern, I'm just pointing out what was the norm to get around it before.

The genre itself was only appealing to select crowds, and once it became a little more popular, it attracted more of those like-minded folks, gaining it the popularity it has in mainstream today. Because of that however, it attracted folks who would never EVER play an MMORPG back in the day. It was a bad thing that you played an MMORPG, despite other "normal" games starting to be more accepted. Today, the genre is looked at as nothing special besides it being required you be online to play. Meaning a lot of people we see in this game have certain unrealistic expectations of the genre... like complaints about paid subs, thinking they should be getting a full games worth with every patch/expansion that is reflected upon current games content (meaning next expansion, someone will expect it to provide us 1.0, 2.0, and 3.0's entire plethora of content at launch or sometime during), etc.

Not everyone liked it, especially had it been these days obviously, but that's the aforementioned old school mentality. We really did have to rely on our imagination to get the most out of things lol. There would be far less pointless complaints these days, and more constructive criticisms about overall design (rather than focusing on something small), if more people had such a capacity to think so broadly for themselves.

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

If I made a game where you jump bridges and walk an old lady across the street 13 times would you wish it was a better game or use your imagination to make it fun? Yeah, I wouldn't either unless your drunk and had friends to play that crap with, though just about anything is fun with friends. :/

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I wouldn't buy or play that game. I think that's the important thing to remember there. Obviously, since you do pay for this game, it already has something that appeals to you enough to pay for it. Realistically, you're going to get bored or tired of it at some point. It's foolish to think otherwise on that. There's nothing in existence, created by someone else as a form of entertainment, that can keep you from a negative side effect, like growing tired of it.

That's when, if you have any attachment to it, you might start to think of other ways to enjoy the game. The argument that you're paying money and expect everything to be done for you to have fun is like you're indirectly mocking people who paid for a tabletop simulator (a program you spend money on) or that play RP games like D&D. They have to think for themselves to find ways to play it and enjoy their time, just FYI lol.

Again though, not saying that they shouldn't add things to the game to do lol. I know someone would be reaching to the moon to grab that false argument. Just that it's rather ignorant to overlook the fact that you could find other ways to enjoy yourself in the game you pay for. We're not gonna know exactly how of course, but yeah. You pay for what you get, don't like it, then don't pay it. If you like it, but still find some periods boring, maybe use your imagination. Or don't and blindly complain (not referring to constructively criticizing), like the rest of us.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

You pay for what you get, don't like it, then don't pay it.

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That's not true when it comes to online games though, and this argument needs to die a death. Online games are evolving. Updates can add to what's already there or overhaul the entire game. Everything is at the mercy of the developers, and ultimately they're at the mercy of the paying customers. If you see a dip in the bank balance, you know something is wrong, but you won't know what is wrong unless someone tells you.

It's because people enjoy the game, and because they pay for it that they not only have every right to make their voice heard when the devs do something wrong, but that their opinion counts for something. You don't have to agree with their opinions, but you should still respect them. If someone doesn't want to respect anyone else's opinions, then they can't expect anyone else to respect them and theirs.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

That's not true when it comes to online games though, and this argument needs to die a death. Online games are evolving. Updates can add to what's already there or overhaul the entire game. Everything is at the mercy of the developers, and ultimately they're at the mercy of the paying customers. If you see a dip in the bank balance, you know something is wrong, but you won't know what is wrong unless someone tells you.

It's because people enjoy the game, and because they pay for it that they not only have every right to make their voice heard when the devs do something wrong, but that their opinion counts for something. You don't have to agree with their opinions, but you should still respect them. If someone doesn't want to respect anyone else's opinions, then they can't expect anyone else to respect them and theirs.

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It's ALWAYS relevant. You know, you can stop paying for something until it hits a point that you do enjoy it. You can even post a comment on the forums here about what you don't like before you quit or some other site after (e.g. Reddit). Your control over your entertainment and your expenses is always relevant. That much has never changed. It's really not that far off of a thought to logically come to.

The extreme case that you and a ridiculously large amount of people immediately jump to is NOT how it is. The "don't like it, don't pay it" argument is almost exclusively relevant to the people who legitimately don't care to play it. They decide to try it and think "not for me". I would hope you don't actually believe something farfetched like every single person should love this game lol.

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Originally Posted by Lemuel81

I missed the type of danger that I found when I first played FFXI. I still remember the long run to Jeuno. Ah the memories! I highly doubt we will see something like that in FFXIV as this game is built mostly around the "casual" player.

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The first sight of Castle Zvahl Bailey or Ifrit's Cauldron. The "oh shit" moments in Den of Rancor. MPkin' gil sellers in Labyrinth of Onzozo! Killing players that stole my pets in the Boyahda Tree.

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Originally Posted by Anienai

The first sight of Castle Zvahl Bailey or Ifrit's Cauldron. The "oh shit" moments in Den of Rancor. MPkin' gil sellers in Labyrinth of Onzozo! Killing players that stole my pets in the Boyahda Tree.

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Those Crawler's Nest mob trains that would shut down the entire zone for hours.

My BLM friend used to play a "fun" game of chicken in Castle Zvahl. Whenever we had to go in there for whatever reason, once we were finished, he'd Stun some demon on the floor below. Naturally, the thing would get pissed at him, and so it would run allllll the way around, training every demon in it's way, just to get to that little jerkoff of a Taru who magically slapped his sh*t. Then my friend, being a BLM, would just Warp out.

We all learned to carry a Warp scroll whenever we were with him.

I wouldn't mind if there were open-world PvP maps added. I played (and still do every now and again) Aion, and back in the day when rifting was a big thing, I was always afraid of running into an enemy player and getting my face stomped in while leveling and questing. ;; Added a nice bit of suspense. Something similar to the faction territories in Tera, perhaps for GCs? Only we can enter at any time we want to do special dailies or hunts or something.

I mean, this probably won't happen, and I can see this only appealing to a select few players. But I think it's a good example of a "fear" element that could be added. :'P

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Originally Posted by Quor

Those Crawler's Nest mob trains that would shut down the entire zone for hours.

My BLM friend used to play a "fun" game of chicken in Castle Zvahl. Whenever we had to go in there for whatever reason, once we were finished, he'd Stun some demon on the floor below. Naturally, the thing would get pissed at him, and so it would run allllll the way around, training every demon in it's way, just to get to that little jerkoff of a Taru who magically slapped his sh*t. Then my friend, being a BLM, would just Warp out.

We all learned to carry a Warp scroll whenever we were with him.

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The worst sound in MMO history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTIwBDNDO4M

Ya thats why in 1.0 I ran to different areas exploring and getting teleport crystals as a low lvl it was fun, like that run to jeuno. It used to be crazy hard and dangerous in 1.0, in 2.0 it can be slighty rough with several mobs but wasnt the same. I dont mind the ease though i've become lazy to grind more xp if it was lost. But I do understand the feeling you are getting at, I guess in that sense I do miss that feeling.