I just don't get it.

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Originally Posted by Krissey

I have played other MMOs. This is the best one. I've played WoW, Aion, Tera, Blade & Soul, Elder Scrolls Online, City of Heroes, Guild Wars 1, Guild Wars 2, Lord of the Rings: Online, and probably more I've forgotten about.

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Good to see can we agree there could be some room for improvements to this game as well and I acknowledged not everything I suggest is going to be liked by everyone :p

It seems your issue is with gear longevity, 6 months for ilvl raise is how it's done around here. The fact that we can predict things is because the producer makes live letters, explaining what is happening with the game constantly. Most other games don't even tell you who the producer is let alone communicates with it's playerbase... so if you were wondering how we know when stuff get's released it's through him.

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Originally Posted by Krissey

I have played other MMOs. This is the best one. I've played WoW, Aion, Tera, Blade & Soul, Elder Scrolls Online, City of Heroes, Guild Wars 1, Guild Wars 2, Lord of the Rings: Online, and probably more I've forgotten about.

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Opinions are a funny thing. I honestly wouldn't recommend XIV to people as I find the game quite shallow. And since you hate dem silly buzzwords, let me explain why I think the game is shallow.

At times this game feels like a gigantic lobby. They have this nice world out there that is hardly touched because most of the game content is instanced. Want a raid? Go queue up and get popped into your instance. Dungeons? Same. MSQ fights? Same. Trials? You see where this is going?

Then there is the issue that each patch brings more of the same. Dungeons, raids and trials all follow the same pattern, and there is far too much scripting.

Gear is predictable as well. We get new styles every ~6 months or so, all from a new fancy tome which acts the exact same as the previous version. Full gearsets have to be replaced constantly, and with caps in place, forget trying to play and gear up more then 2-3 jobs unless you absolutely love that gear treadmill. This game is horribly linear.


Edit:
Some things I've loved from other games:

XI:
-the merit system. Already at max level? Lets start putting some points into various skills and traits to boost your character
-all the various forms of end-game came with their own distinct flavour and style
-open world NMs. Hunts are XIV's version of this, but like most things, the implementation is rather iffy
-Everything is done on your own server - greater sense of community which adds A LOT to MMOs. I get why DF exists in XIV, but they really need to bring in cross-server chat, or a guesting feature. At this point, most DF runs feel like you're playing with NPCs.

AA:
-Massive open world filled with monsters that provide an actual threat to you.
-Extensive farming/husbandry system in place that ANYONE can do. Not just those fortunate enough to own a house.
-Job customization. They have an obscene amount of possible jobs depending on what classes you pick. And from there you and pick various skills that you like

GW2:
-Another large world without many invisible walls
-Jumping puzzles!
-Your level scales based on the zone you are in so you can always help out friends no matter your level
-Cross-server chat / guest options
-Buy/sell orders
-Frequent open-world events going on in all zones that provide actual rewards outside of just XP

There are definitely more items, but I'm at work and cant keep pissing away the time on this post ;)

Each game has its pros and cons. Even XIV has some things that they've done well. But with that said, I would say XIV is not the game for me due to the shallowness. Sure, I've wasted plenty of time here, but at this point I log in more out of habit. Like many others, I am just keeping the game around until something else comes along, or more likely in my case, until my sub runs out.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

At times this game feels like a gigantic lobby. They have this nice world out there that is hardly touched because most of the game content is instanced. Want a raid? Go queue up and get popped into your instance. Dungeons? Same. MSQ fights? Same. Trials? You see where this is going?

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So what MMO have you played with a super rich and interesting and diverse world? Eve Online? No instances of any kind? I literally can't think of one that isn't basically a "lobby" at this point in time. Almost all of them if not precisely all of them have instanced raids, dungeons and so forth.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

It seems your issue is with gear longevity, 6 months for ilvl raise is how it's done around here.

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See, this statement is a perfect example of what is wrong with this community. Too many players accept a poorly thought-out design concept as being okay. "It's how things work, so just accept it." Did players accept a terribly designed game when it was released? If you can't figure out what I'm referring to, then I'll help you. I'm talking about FFXIV. When it was launched we didn't accept it as, "it's how it done." Even though Tanaka may have tried that line on us quite a few times, especially during the Beta. The game was a failure that quickly became a meme and a joke in the MMO community. It failed publicly, it failed internally, and it failed financially. Square Enix themselves claimed that it severely 'damaged the Final Fantasy brand' and the company as a whole.

Criticizing A Realm Reborn for its constant vertical climb and rapidly increasing item levels is a perfectly valid criticism. This is an issue that is impacting the game's success right now.

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The fact that we can predict things is because the producer makes live letters, explaining what is happening with the game constantly.

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Actually, the game has become predictable because the development team chooses to copy and paste their established design philosophies, which are quite narrow. We know now, after two years of the same, that we will receive, linear dungeons, four 'raids' every 6 months, that are hardly raids, one 24-man snoozefest dungeon every 6 months, a primal fight each patch, which is heavily scripted, some uninspired daily quests, and possibly one new idea.

About the only thing that we are unable to predict these days are QoL adjustments, buffs/nerfs to jobs, and some minor tweaks to already existing content. These are about the only things that we are unable to currently predict about this game's path moving forward. The live letters merely serve to fill in some of the finer details about what we can predict, while answering some questions. Nevermind the fact that they're generally softballs about glamour and whether or not the box in your house is going to be able to fly next patch. Anyone who has been around since the live letters started in 2011 can tell you that they've gone down in quality significantly. Production quality may be up, but the actual quality of information has gone down.

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Most other games don't even tell you who the producer is let alone communicates with it's playerbase... so if you were wondering how we know when stuff get's released it's through him.

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That's great, but this community now treats Yoshida as a celebrity, a person who can do no wrong. His ideas and concepts are infallible. No matter how poorly the community reacts to them, Alexander Gordias, Lord of Verminion, and the 3.0 relic, only to name a few, players will come out of the woodwork in an effort to defend him. If anyone wants to start picking their games based on celebrities then may I suggest Clash of Clans? I heard they have this well-known supermodel who is the face of their game. Certainly that must be a higher quality game because of her noteworthiness, right?

To be honest, I don't care whether or not I know who the producer of this game is. And to say that other games don't tell you who their producers are is flat out wrong. Other developers just choose not shove that person in your face because they know ultimately you only should care about the game itself.

Is it really that hard to believe that some of us enjoy the game that we play and want it to continue being the same game at its core? Is that really a "problem" with the community? Which is more logical to you - someone who enjoys the underlying mechanics for a game that they play and is willing to say that they enjoy it and defend their enjoyment of the game, or someone who hates the underlying mechanics of a game that they play and constantly asks it to be changed into a completely different game? Are we somehow "sheep" for enjoying something that other people don't?

Each patch brings more of the same because it's the same game. Surprised? I'm certainly not, and am totally baffled by some of the views expressed in this thread (and others like it).

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Originally Posted by Slappah

You're saying having BiS gear for 6 months isn't long enough?

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Not when it takes about 4 months to get a full lore set. Are you guys forgetting the lockouts?

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

Is it really that hard to believe that some of us enjoy the game that we play and want it to continue being the same game at its core? Is that really a "problem" with the community? Which is more logical to you - someone who enjoys the underlying mechanics for a game that they play and is willing to say that they enjoy it and defend their enjoyment of the game, or someone who hates the underlying mechanics of a game that they play and constantly asks it to be changed into a completely different game? Are we somehow "sheep" for enjoying something that other people don't?

Each patch brings more of the same because it's the same game. Surprised? I'm certainly not, and am totally baffled by some of the views expressed in this thread (and others like it).

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Come on now, you should know how this works with the interwebz. If you're not with the popular thinking of the time, which is to defy reality and have infinite resources, time, and manpower to make changes instant and unique to each players enjoyable experience, then you're obviously dumb.

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Originally Posted by FabricioRF

Not when it takes about 4 months to get a full lore set.

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Logically, doesn't that mean you're spending time with the previous equips individually for that 4 month period as well, until each piece gets replaced? Or is it logical these days with this game that as soon as the next tier comes out, all equips are now useless, and any time spent with them is like cancer?

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

Is it really that hard to believe that some of us enjoy the game that we play and want it to continue being the same game at its core?

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It's not hard to believe and I never said that it was. Also, I believe it's debatable whether or not rapid iLvl progression is part of this game's core.

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Is that really a "problem" with the community? Which is more logical to you - someone who enjoys the underlying mechanics for a game that they play and is willing to say that they enjoy it and defend their enjoyment of the game, or someone who hates the underlying mechanics of a game that they play and constantly asks it to be changed into a completely different game?

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Here you are mincing words and extrapolating what I said about "this" community, the official forums, and confusing it with the overall community of FFXIV, which due to its size is hard to generalize. My main complaint about this community is not whether or not you enjoy the game. It's about the extreme bias found within these forums. It's about the shouting down of criticism with thinly constructed arguments because someone doesn't agree with the way something is done.

You are making assumptions about what I believe this game needs when I have never said anything to that effect. You're also assuming that I have a complete dislike for this game. If that were the case I certainly wouldn't have been paying sub fees since March of 2012. I have never asked for a completely different game, nor has anyone asked for it in this thread. However, if you view that a desire for improvements upon established systems that are causing longtime players to unsubscribe at high rates is somehow wrong, then I don't know what to tell you.

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Are we somehow "sheep" for enjoying something that other people don't?

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Also, you seem to be attributing a statement to myself and others about what we've said because we believe that certain systems can be improved upon and/or changed for the betterment of the game. Going back to what I said earlier in this thread, the official forums is full of confirmation bias. This is what I believe is wrong with the forums, specifically, the general discussion section.

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Each patch brings more of the same because it's the same game. Surprised? I'm certainly not, and am totally baffled by some of the views expressed in this thread (and others like it).

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I'm not exactly sure why you are baffled that there are people who would be unhappy with the direction that the game is going in. Is it because there are so many people willing to voice their criticisms of the game, many of them quite common, that has you baffled?

The other day there was a post on the FFXIV subreddit asking people what their complaints were about the game. There have been several threads like this in as many months since Heavensward was released in that particular community. The most recent thread had more than double the amount of comments posted to it than any of the other most recent popular threads. A majority of those comments were critical of the game and certain design decisions as of late with several repeated criticisms being ones that have been voiced here in the past and presently in this thread.

While this is another form of confirmation bias, I do find it interesting that these complaints are cropping up more frequently in several different places post Heavensward. I believe that anyone who has been paying attention for the past year could tell you that there is an ever growing discontent among the playerbase about certain aspects of the game. Now, it's debatable whether or not those groups all agree about what they're unhappy about it should be noted that these complaints have begun to coalesce into a much larger complaint about the direction the game has gone in.

I just don't get it:

Have a system allowing you to switch jobs on the fly ---> can only equip 1-2 jobs to 'not suck' level for the newest hard content thanks to weekly limit. Sure there is 220 crafted gear but to craft it you need multiple crafting jobs ---> OH HAY red scrips limit. Also the materia needed to get 3star crafts done is hilarious. Have fun gearing multiple Crafter to 3star level.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Edit: This got cut off and its a rather important part to the tone of this lol. If what you were saying was encompassing your mention of adding interesting stats in order to keep gear relevant, then yeah, I totally agree obviously. It's just that based on the way you were arguing the subject, it sounds like you were looking at one being separable from the other, which is something I don't agree with.

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I was merely addressing each issue, though they're interconnected. You got the idea though. With more interesting stats they could slow down a bit on the release of gear and we could hold on to it a bit longer (even with potential upgrades being released).

Even though a lot of FFXI's stats were used in very specific situations, I think many would translate well here. You could have stats to reduce TP/MP costs/ increase TP/MP gains, various damage modifiers (ie. mobs take 5% more damage while under the effect of thunder, GL stacks deal 10 potency per stack to all enemies within area of effect), various ability modifiers (ie. 10% chance wrath stacks are not spent, Hallowed Ground makes you absorb damage rather than just negate it), double/ triple attack, occasionally deal double damage. Really anyone could think of tons of things from slightly advantageous to very effective that they could put on armor/ weapons that would be a lot more interesting than +15 STR.

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Originally Posted by Nutz

I was merely addressing each issue, though they're interconnected. You got the idea though. With more interesting stats they could slow down a bit on the release of gear and we could hold on to it a bit longer (even with potential upgrades being released).

Even though a lot of FFXI's stats were used in very specific situations, I think many would translate well here. You could have stats to reduce TP/MP costs/ increase TP/MP gains, various damage modifiers (ie. mobs take 5% more damage while under the effect of thunder, GL stacks deal 10 potency per stack to all enemies within area of effect), various ability modifiers (ie. 10% chance wrath stacks are not spent, Hallowed Ground makes you absorb damage rather than just negate it), double/ triple attack, occasionally deal double damage. Really anyone could think of tons of things from slightly advantageous to very effective that they could put on armor/ weapons that would be a lot more interesting than +15 STR.

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The only issue is that special secondary stats, while certainly a step in the right direction, is a short sighted fix with our current combat restrictions (i.e. the inability to swap gear mid-combat). That's why I mentioned the example of WoW, and how despite having some alternatives in non-endgame during its earlier years, it is still the same BiS situation that we have right now here.

Player combat is not so intricate to the point that situational gear needs would be a thing. That is, unless fights were created under the basis of needing situational gear.. which, in all honesty, would absolutely backfire. Like mandating your mentioned TP/MP affecting equips because the boss has abilities that drain them. While that would be a new idea for this game (old school to any XI players), the fact they're required is where the backfire begins (and certainly does not end there). I mean, people here got into the biggest fuss over the idea that endgame raid tiers have the audacity to require better gear as you progress through them. At any rate though, as I said, the inability to gearswap is the biggest roadblock to having a prosperous means of horizontal gear progression.

Horizontal gear acquisition in FFXI is both a gift and a curse. It made that equip that you spent months or years (literally) trying to get worth the effort, but it also made endgame into more of an actual job than anything else (old school MMORPGs at their finest). It'd be best to not take that too far, but it's inevitable that it will at some point. I guess what they COULD do, however, is introduce a means to further raise your current gear with augments... sort of like WoWs version, but this will actually raise the ilvl of your current gear. I don't think that'd go over well though, assuming 1 year is too long for one set of armor to be worn lol. That is part of the point isn't it? To have your gear that you worked towards getting be useful for longer.

Let's not forget our current inventory woes though lol. There's a lot they need to adjust before horizontal gearing can be a thing really.

I'm actually enjoying the system as a more casual player. I returned only this month (just got HW) and am having a lot of fun upgrading to ESO gear. I'm not stressing about Lore gear as I'm sure it will be easier to get later. I am stressing about getting ESO sets for the classes I want to have the glamor for before they go away though :)

I think if you are okay with being a patch behind, you won't feel like it takes much effort to get gear upgrades. I feel I can experience a lot of the games content with ESO gear and the occasional piece of Lore without stressing. This leaves plenty of time for RL, or even non-gear related activities like story quests or Gold Saucer.

Before my break I would try to stay current with the highest level gear but I think ultimately that ruined my experience since it felt more grindy capping whatever tome you get less of. Now I can enjoy a variety of content and feel like I'm progressing.

I also always look forward to new dungeons with new mechanics and challenges.

I may not be the type of player OP cares about and am now the "least common demoninator" but my days of being in a Top-Server raid guild that required I dedicate 30 hours of my week to the game are behind me. So there is something to be said about this cycle, and having some gear easy to obtain or even predict which months of the year a busy person can schedule time to advance their characters thanks to the predictable ilevel increase schedule.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

The only issue is that special secondary stats, while certainly a step in the right direction, is a short sighted fix with our current combat restrictions (i.e. the inability to swap gear mid-combat). That's why I mentioned the example of WoW, and how despite having some alternatives in non-endgame during its earlier years, it is still the same BiS situation that we have right now here.

Player combat is not so intricate to the point that situational gear needs would be a thing. That is, unless fights were created under the basis of needing situational gear.. which, in all honesty, would absolutely backfire. Like mandating your mentioned TP/MP affecting equips because the boss has abilities that drain them. While that would be a new idea for this game (old school to any XI players), the fact they're required is where the backfire begins (and certainly does not end there). I mean, people here got into the biggest fuss over the idea that endgame raid tiers have the audacity to require better gear as you progress through them. At any rate though, as I said, the inability to gearswap is the biggest roadblock to having a prosperous means of horizontal gear progression.

Horizontal gear acquisition in FFXI is both a gift and a curse. It made that equip that you spent months or years (literally) trying to get worth the effort, but it also made endgame into more of an actual job than anything else (old school MMORPGs at their finest). It'd be best to not take that too far, but it's inevitable that it will at some point. I guess what they COULD do, however, is introduce a means to further raise your current gear with augments... sort of like WoWs version, but this will actually raise the ilvl of your current gear. I don't think that'd go over well though, assuming 1 year is too long for one set of armor to be worn lol. That is part of the point isn't it? To have your gear that you worked towards getting be useful for longer.

Let's not forget our current inventory woes though lol. There's a lot they need to adjust before horizontal gearing can be a thing really.

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I'll admit straight-off that although I like the idea of horizontal gearing, the combat-gear-swaps doesn't seem remotely horizontal to me. It just seems like a snakier vertical path. If you don't have the gear set, even if of equal or lesser ilvl, that allows you to maximize a given ability, your overall stat-derived output is suboptimal. To say nothing of the idea of swapping outfits every 1-12 seconds--how does that work.. are we all just wearing stat-ed holograms?--aesthetically, it kill any actual sense of options or compromise even more than XIV's model. You either have the perfect manipulator, or you don't. And if you don't, you'd best go get it. Sure, there may be an average best answer for a particular fight even when able to choose your stats only before a fight starts, but at least that has a difference in dynamics. The alternative just slaps on bits and pieces until you have neither relative strength or weakness--just completion, within availability. If that's what horizontal gearing aims for, then I've no interest. I want meaningful stats, not niched ones.

If you want to see progressive, meaningful stats in action, (with little to no niche-ing) look no further than WoW's Hunters, Fury, Arms, Feral, Ret, Fire, etc. They were admittedly balancing nightmares, many of them starting weak early game and crushingly powerful later on as their proc-related secondary stats rose into serious percentiles, but your stats could actually influence your rotation or priorities. Some stats had particular plateaus, and others just messed with the gamble of the button flow, but either way they were noticeable. In XIV, the only real gameplay adjusters are Crit for Bard (gamble) and Speed for everyone else (plateau). That said, while XIV secondary stats certainly suffer from oversights (Skill Speed being split from Spell Speed, draining more TP for a lesser to near-equal dps contribution than Det/Crit, devaluing AAs and oGCDs, eventually preventing proper oGCD weaving), the lackluster stat-gameplay interaction has almost entirely to do with class design and internal mechanics rather than the stats themselves. I wonder if any changes might be made in that regard in the future, or if going from 3.4 to 4.0 will have changes merely on the level of a 3s-extended Phlebotomize and Demolish, again.

And indeed, before we can even think of amassing a horde of near-equally relevant gear, we would first need some solution to our inventory issues.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I'll admit straight-off that although I like the idea of horizontal gearing, the combat-gear-swaps doesn't seem remotely horizontal to me. It just seems like a snakier vertical path. If you don't have the gear set, even if of equal or lesser ilvl, that allows you to maximize a given ability, your overall stat-derived output is suboptimal. To say nothing of the idea of swapping outfits every 1-12 seconds--how does that work.. are we all just wearing stat-ed holograms?--aesthetically, it kill any actual sense of options or compromise even more than XIV's model. You either have the perfect manipulator, or you don't. And if you don't, you'd best go get it. Sure, there may be an average best answer for a particular fight even when able to choose your stats only before a fight starts, but at least that has a difference in dynamics. The alternative just slaps on bits and pieces until you have neither relative strength or weakness--just completion, within availability. If that's what horizontal gearing aims for, then I've no interest. I want meaningful stats, not niched ones.

If you want to see progressive, meaningful stats in action, (with little to no niche-ing) look no further than WoW's Hunters, Fury, Arms, Feral, Ret, Fire, etc. They were admittedly balancing nightmares, many of them starting weak early game and crushingly powerful later on as their proc-related secondary stats rose into serious percentiles, but your stats could actually influence your rotation or priorities. Some stats had particular plateaus, and others just messed with the gamble of the button flow, but either way they were noticeable. In XIV, the only real gameplay adjusters are Crit for Bard (gamble) and Speed for everyone else (plateau). That said, while XIV secondary stats certainly suffer from oversights (Skill Speed being split from Spell Speed, draining more TP for a lesser to near-equal dps contribution than Det/Crit, devaluing AAs and oGCDs, eventually preventing proper oGCD weaving), the lackluster stat-gameplay interaction has almost entirely to do with class design and internal mechanics rather than the stats themselves. I wonder if any changes might be made in that regard in the future, or if going from 3.4 to 4.0 will have changes merely on the level of a 3s-extended Phlebotomize and Demolish, again.

And indeed, before we can even think of amassing a horde of near-equally relevant gear, we would first need some solution to our inventory issues.

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Unfortunately in your case, that actually is what the general idea of horizontal gearing falls to. The niche stats to assist gear you currently have, thus keeping old gear relevant while also making you want the new stuff. So while there is still a BiS system in place, your old gear does still remain relevant for a period of time without being replaced so quickly.

I can certainly appreciate your preferred idea on the matter, with stats varying how you play in general, but we (the players) don't allow such things to really be. Balance, for example, is a frontline concern. If it doesn't perform optimally at all times, it generally isn't looked at fondly, such as 3.0 AST. Special stats tend to also cause huge balance issues, and for a game like XIV, that's a rather large concern and probably why we don't have them. Then we have the min/max approach, which carries over to "best" and "optimal" degrees of play. We will find what works best, and given our tendencies in XIV (surprisingly more than some other games), that will be seen as the only option.

Your mentioning of class design is ABSOLUTELY something of warrant to criticize. It works for the most part with what we have now, but what we have is relatively bland. Been done a million times sort of feel. It's fine for a good while, but it does start to get stale the more we deal with it. I'd imagine rotations will continue to change though for some, so that will help along the way, but there needs to be a bit of an overhaul to aesthetics and effects (stat wise) somewhere down the road.

Comparing a rpg with a mmorpg. says all.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Unfortunately in your case, that actually is what the general idea of horizontal gearing falls to. The niche stats to assist gear you currently have, thus keeping old gear relevant while also making you want the new stuff. So while there is still a BiS system in place, your old gear does still remain relevant for a period of time without being replaced so quickly.

I can certainly appreciate your preferred idea on the matter, with stats varying how you play in general, but we (the players) don't allow such things to really be. Balance, for example, is a frontline concern. If it doesn't perform optimally at all times, it generally isn't looked at fondly, such as 3.0 AST. Special stats tend to also cause huge balance issues, and for a game like XIV, that's a rather large concern and probably why we don't have them. Then we have the min/max approach, which carries over to "best" and "optimal" degrees of play. We will find what works best, and given our tendencies in XIV (surprisingly more than some other games), that will be seen as the only option.

Your mentioning of class design is ABSOLUTELY something of warrant to criticize. It works for the most part with what we have now, but what we have is relatively bland. Been done a million times sort of feel. It's fine for a good while, but it does start to get stale the more we deal with it. I'd imagine rotations will continue to change though for some, so that will help along the way, but there needs to be a bit of an overhaul to aesthetics and effects (stat wise) somewhere down the road.

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I do think if (Skill/Spell) Speed were fixed, that would already set a good starting precedent for multiple options. Monk for instance has 4 different rotational markers between the 2.5 (2.12) and 2.33 (1.98) GCD, where, if slight adjustment were made you'd have the bare minimum for a typical DK-to-DK, followed by 1 combat Meditation per DK/Twin/Demo, followed by DK- (or Twin-)drop rotations, followed finally by extended DK-drop rotations or extended DK-to-DK rotations. The sub-2s GCD spec is amazingly fun, and I can already pull near-equal dps out of it when short 6 ilvl just to reach that Speed, but the sheer drain on TP (perfect Invigorate still = starve in 2 1/2 minutes) make the option... well, not an option in the vast majority of fights. Speaking of classes (or in this case stats) that have a period of being sub-optimal that ramps steadily to becoming over-powered, the fact that Skill Speed has a near flat point-to-seconds'-GCD-reduction certainly doesn't help, either. .1 seconds lost at 2.5 means a fair bit less than .1 second lost from 2.1, for instance. The stat starts off crap, and gradually excels. It should be proportionate instead, reaching early plateaus more quickly and probably, though it pains me, reach the extreme plateaus later. And that's not even touching on its rotational devaluation (much like the AP/Main Stat vs. Armor Penetration back in Wrath - valuing direct physical over magical or DoT damage as Armor Penetration become king - even though we originally saw Serpent AP builds, Buff-maximizing SV / all-rounder MM Agility builds, stream-proc haste BM builds, sure-proc Crit SV/BM builds, and a few more all just on Hunter before ARP MM become the forum, and mathematical, favorite), which XIV otherwise seems to be trying to avoid.

For a real fix:
Reduce all bonus and base TP ticks by 20%. These now all tick per player GCD. (A Speed player now has a higher TP drain from above-average TP cost abilities, equal in all other regards, and regenerates TP faster when TP-buffed).
Skill Speed and Spell Speed have been merged into Speed, which affects Attack Speed and periodic damage (DoTs, ground DoTs, AAs, and oGCDs).
Animation times now scale with Attack Speed.

Alternatively though, you could add a more obvious form of stat complexity by purposely endorsing certain stats for certain stat ranges (early-game->late-game within a given expansion's level-cap content), or having them best pay off at certain general amounts, appreciating or depreciating over time, such that a player is supposed to seek out a particular equilibrium while gradually shifting their gameplay along the stat that best suits their stat range (Speed in 3.3-3.4, on a class that can make use of it, for instance). This was basically the case with 2.0's stats. Critical strike's value, in isolation, depreciated over time. Skill Speed's value, in isolation appreciated over time. Determination stayed the same. All stats increased in value as others increased, though some were effected more than others (e.g. Crit wouldn't help Speed nearly as much as Det on a Bard, because Speed couldn't affect Bloodletter). That's not my favored model--I prefer a true balance, rather than trying to cut the best equilibrium--but I wouldn't especially mind that either. But with 3.0's change to Crit, we now have two linear and one exponential stats. If they were going for consistency / balance, they should have at least done the same for Speed.

Now, as for what I think would be aesthetically attractive as far as Stats go... that requires a lot more creativity, which I'm not sure I have. The stuff that comes to mind are things like a controllable multi-strike (i.e. "Flurry"), allowing one to rapidly repeat a weaponskill during its following oGCD for lesser effect and again at TP cost (though perhaps reduced) or instantly re-cool a used oGCD, or faster combo-ing (tentatively "Drive") or progressively higher crit chance based on prior crits within a combo or whatnot, but these would have to work in cohesion with Speed (and perhaps Crit or Det) rather than merely devaluing it in creating a new way to approach a given rotation. Both would also have to be something that you don't use constantly; Flurry for instance should be used to rapidly distribute debuffs or punctuate high-potency moves, and would likely be limited by an internal resource while further balancing usage against increased TP consumption. And to really bring out the aesthetics of each would probably require an abundance of other changes, such as in breaking attack animations down into separable parts (the axe-spinning portion of Storm's Eye from its finisher, the quick double-slashing-parry of Disembowel from its turning stab, etc.), a sort of "Flex" mechanics that could rotationally make up for overextending a particular GCD (within reason), etc. etc. Long story short, it doesn't seem like it'd be easy. But if done right, it could mean that you have a Warrior laughing his head off while helicoptering around an enemy with Storm's Eye, ramping up crit chance for the final blow partition with each AoE hit that crits before it, a Monk seemingly DK-top-bouncing down and along a line of enemies to pass blunt resist to all of them before a massive AoE, or whatnot. It'd be a balancing nightmare, I'm sure, but potentially with quite a live display of its effects. And if it can have rotational or situational prevalence, then great. That said, it could just as well be something built into any given (or all) class(es), rather than being weighed against Crit, Speed, and Det.

If you're masochistic enough to go on reading, I'd like to throw a couple other ideas by you:
1. Dynamic/resource/rating stats. [INDENT]For instance, let's say you have an Evasion stat that rather than having a fixed percentile contribution, is a floating resource value, with a particular (stat-ed) maximum and a subsequent regeneration rate, that is instead consumed to dodge. In terms of how that would actually play out, the fewer chances you have to dodge, the more effective it is on each of those chances--mitigating its niche-ness. Additionally, it can be consumed at above-standard rates in order to deal with, say, damage that would otherwise kill you or reduce you to critical health. Additionally, Determination, Critical, and Speed can all then directly effect this resource, along with any internal mechanics that one might think up for a certain class. It can even lead to manipulation of one's particular Block, Dodge, and Parry chances for maximum average and crucial mitigation. (I'd actually imagine that being core to any revised GLD's/PLD's gameplay.)

2. Multi-faceted stats with manual allocation.
For instance, lets Determination, Critical, and Speed each have three or more possible uses, and you're given the option of what, exactly, you want to use them on. Determination could be used to extend one's (de)buffs, increase damage dealt, or increase resistance to Interruption, Knockback, and AoE damage (per above resource system; the less use, the more effect, mostly averaging out one fight with another). The first has plateau'ed use, a flip side to Speed's Attack Speed component, the second is perfectly linear, and the third is utility. You can freely transfer allocation between these, a bit like a moving about an RGB wheel.
...Heck, you could even go so far as to give various effects to each of the elements, and make elemental materia relevant again. Ice for instance might have a component by which to duplicate a portion of damage-as-healing into an absorption shield... Wind might have increased range or AoE radius (via rating, consumed only when enemies are within the potential extended range/radius) in addition to attack speed increases--a component of each element feeding into its surrounding ones, such as damage proccing speed in Fire, and speed then being usable for increased damage in Wind, while Fire's own increased ramp-up component would be buffed by Water, etc. That'd be an overkill of complexity, at that point, but I think it is actually something that could still be balanced, meaningful, and versatile both as cause and consequence of that.

Edit: honestly, I kind of hope SE just eventually creates a method to essentially beat the forums to the 'optimal' stats and builds. Create a program that can run the stat curves, find the best rotations, and determine output against a fight. Embed it into the character and Skill panes, make the stats transparent. On our side, we get to see what does exactly what, in output and surrounding effect, find out when our next gameplay change will be, etc.. On their side, it's that much easier to balance these things to create more viable options, both in macro and in the micro contexts of a particular fight, without having to lean too hard on uncreative caution. Now, there's a pipe-dream if there ever was one, but still, if it were possible...

ITT: stop liking what I don't like.

I liked FFXI's way of getting gear. I could get a piece from Sky, then get a piece from Sea, then a few pieces from Abyssea, and a piece from Nyzul Isle. I wasn't limited to just farming currency to buy gear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Igziabeher

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Hi. I'm not going to read the whole 14 pages of replies, but, I bothered to read your entire post. I have to write a bit for this, but... I have been playing this game for two years, I have been farming like crazy the impossible, got multiple relics, farmed FCOB to have all the damn sets before the expansion, and so on, and so on... And.... I don't know why I still like it, but, one thing is sure, your post, IS.... 100% truth.

You are not wrong, FFXIV's main basic schema is like that and we are all able to see it, we can foresee what's going on and how to anticipate, we don't have a real time to enjoy what we got, because at the time we got it, another new patch will purge everything... Yet... I still here...

I want to think it is because I love killing peeps in PvP.